CBS/Paramount new stupid fanfilm rules

[Simon_Jester]

The combination of trademark and copyright law in the modern era most certainly does exist to protect content as well as origin.

This is the difference between a media corporation and, say, the Ford Motor Company.

Ford has one trademark which needs to be secure- their own name, which they control so nobody else can manufacture a car and call it a "Ford."

CBS has a lot of trademarks associated with Star Trek, not just the name 'Star Trek.' For example, the alien species known as 'Klingons' are a trademark of CBS, for good reason. CBS and Paramount have collectively spent millions of dollars specifically to portray the appearance, culture, and actions of the Klingons in such a way as to make them interesting characters and a memorable part of Star Trek. The reason Klingons have become such a well-known bunch of aliens, whose behavior and appearance are practically household words, is because of that time and effort they spent making Klingons memorable.

If some random person decides to make a movie using Klingons as the antagonists, they are profiting from that investment- without compensating the people who made it.

You cannot reasonably claim a right to do that thing, without the permission of the copyright holder. It doesn't matter if you argue "but I didn't portray the Klingons shoddily, and I didn't pretend my portrayal was a CBS production!" The point remains, you are using a copyright which CBS/Paramount invested great sums of money and time into, so that you can piggyback off the fame of their idea for your own purposes.

And, again, they have a right to tell you to stop doing that, especially if it looks like you're doing it for profit, or doing it in a way that threatens the long term stability of their right to control how Klingons are portrayed.

The same goes for the many, many other things in Star Trek canon that are trademarks of the people who produced Star Trek.

And that is why trademark and copyright law are more complicated than just "this exists so that people can't falsely claim their product was made by some other, more reputable manufacturer." Other functions are served by those laws, too.

[Lost Soal]

The purpose of trademark law is to protect producers and consumers from other people using a producer's good name to sell any work, not just inferior work. "But my derivative work that uses your IP is really good!" is not a recognized defense against charges of trademark violation.

But Axanas aren't doing that either. Nobody who wanted to see Axanas's fanfilms did so under the false assumption that they were produced by CBS/Paramount. Trademarks do not exist to protect content, they exist to protect origin.

Thats not the way its looked at. You speak of someone who follows and already knows about these productions, not a general consumer who simply sees the name Star Trek. I've watched all the official series and movies and until this news popped up, I had never even heard of Axanar, someone else who simply sees something called Star Trek Axanar or Star Trek Renegades, especially something which features known trek actors playing their original roles could be confused and believe that it is a real Star Trek product.

[Axton]

They did basically every single thing that trademark and copyright law was intended to prevent in the first place, because the exact reason such laws even exist is to ensure that a bunch of random people can't just start making money and selling merchandise and building their careers on the strength of someone else's intellectual property.

The purpose of trademark law is to protect producers and consumers from other people using a producer's good name to sell their own shoddy work.

That didn't prevent the 2009 train wreck.

[Simon_Jester]

You may have thought that the 2009 film was a bad movie, but by the standards of truly bad movies it was not.

[Elheru Aran]

They did basically every single thing that trademark and copyright law was intended to prevent in the first place, because the exact reason such laws even exist is to ensure that a bunch of random people can't just start making money and selling merchandise and building their careers on the strength of someone else's intellectual property.

The purpose of trademark law is to protect producers and consumers from other people using a producer's good name to sell their own shoddy work.

That didn't prevent the 2009 train wreck.

Trademark law was irrelevant there since they made that movie themselves. It wasn't a fan production or anything. In this case, it was a producer turning out a regrettable product, which they were perfectly within their rights to do even though we as fans would have rather they did a better job of it.

[Broomstick]

They did basically every single thing that trademark and copyright law was intended to prevent in the first place, because the exact reason such laws even exist is to ensure that a bunch of random people can't just start making money and selling merchandise and building their careers on the strength of someone else's intellectual property.

The purpose of trademark law is to protect producers and consumers from other people using a producer's good name to sell their own shoddy work. As long as Axanar Productions were not giving Paramount/CBS a bad name by producing crappy films and falsely implying that they were official Star Trek films, and they weren't tricking fans into watching their films by falsely implying they were official Star Trek films, they were not violating the purpose of trademark law.

Regardless, they clearly violated copyright law which is in effect regardless of whether the effort is "crappy" or not, or is done for profit or for free.

Paramount is able to grant a blessing and let Axanar go forward, but based on past instances of copyright and trademark violation that is very unlikely to happen. I don't believe we will ever see Axanar, I think if Paramount wins they're more likely to order all copies destroyed, which is also within their rights to ask for.

Paramount can also ask for substantial damages. They may or may not get them, but they can certainly ask.

I don't think Paramount goes after the average fan effort simply because it's not cost-effective but this is a production that was able to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars and that does make it worth it to try to mine the producer's pockets.

[Broomstick]

The purpose of trademark law is to protect producers and consumers from other people using a producer's good name to sell any work, not just inferior work. "But my derivative work that uses your IP is really good!" is not a recognized defense against charges of trademark violation.

But Axanas aren't doing that either. Nobody who wanted to see Axanas's fanfilms did so under the false assumption that they were produced by CBS/Paramount. Trademarks do not exist to protect content, they exist to protect origin.

You can jump up and down and whine all you want, the law says something other than what you want it to say. It's not just trademark, it's also copyright, and a bunch of legal precedent. The people who produced Axanar did so without asking permission of the entity that owned the intellectual property called "Star Trek" and by doing so they broke the law. Paramount is asserting their rights in court, and after that they will have the final say in whether the movie continues to exist at all or not.

[Batman]

Paramount/CBS aren't legally required to allow ANY fan-made projects. All the Axanar guys would've had to do was ASK. 'We'd like to make a cool fanfilm. Can we, pretty please?'
They didn't. They not only went ahead and did it but they apparently decided they could make money off somebody else's IP. You wanna make money doing Trek, you get a fucking license.
While I, too, am sad that Axanar is unlikely to ever come to pass sorry, those guys were begging for it.

[Broomstick]

Given the number of professionals involved in this production I am actually quite surprised things got this far. Many of the people participating should have known better. Which is likely why Paramount included the "no former actual trek people" in the fan-work rules, to make this clear.

[Rogue 9]

At least according to them they did ask, on multiple occasions, and got a non-answer that they interpreted as "Sure, but we'll let you know if you go too far."

[Simon_Jester]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Paramount policy was a non-answer in the past, given that they did tolerate past fan-films. Then at some point they realized "wow, at this rate our fans are going to be producing content with budget and production values competitive with Wrath of Khan in another five or ten years..." and the legal department had to do something.

[Broomstick]

At least according to them they did ask, on multiple occasions, and got a non-answer that they interpreted as "Sure, but we'll let you know if you go too far."

And, right there, is an illustration of what can happen when you assume things.

[Simon_Jester]

Alternatively, an illustration of what happens when people in positions of power over you don't give you a clearly defined answer, because they themselves don't know the answer, then they arbitrarily decide what the answer is after they decide they're upset with you.

[Rogue 9]

To clarify, what they got was exactly what's been told to every other fanfilm producer for the past ever, and CBS had never sued a fanfilm before. They were perfectly justified in drawing the conclusion they did based on past history. Until the guidelines that sparked this very thread, CBS had steadfastly refused to issue any sort of concrete guidance to fanfilm makers, and yet had always tolerated them.

[Prometheus Unbound]

To clarify, what they got was exactly what's been told to every other fanfilm producer for the past ever, and CBS had never sued a fanfilm before. They were perfectly justified in drawing the conclusion they did based on past history. Until the guidelines that sparked this very thread, CBS had steadfastly refused to issue any sort of concrete guidance to fanfilm makers, and yet had always tolerated them.

No other fan production requested money to build a studio which would be used to produce profit.

Paramount don't give a shit if someone uses ST IP. That much is apparent. Conventions, uniforms, fonts, fan films, websites... all of that, they don't (historically) give a shit about. But them not bothering doesn't mean it's ok. It just means you've not annoyed them enough.


Axanaar violates a load of rules and regulations. They did NOT seek permission properly, they didn't GET permission. They went ahead. and here's the important part - tried to make a profit. They pushed the boundaries and limits too far. No other fan film got sued because no other fan film tried to do what they did.

And they got what was coming to them.

Tony Todd left the project already because it was "shady" as have some of the other actors. And in response to this, Peter whatever set up a petition to BOYCOTT the new show, to make CBS listen to his demands.

The man is a lunatic.

[Broomstick]

Paramount don't give a shit if someone uses ST IP. That much is apparent. Conventions, uniforms, fonts, fan films, websites... all of that, they don't (historically) give a shit about.

This is untrue. I started attending Star Trek cons in 1972 or 73 - it was a long time ago so I can't give you a precise date. Paramount very much gave a shit, and over the years various people have been sued or given cease-and-desist letters by the IP owner but it's been mostly small scale and hasn't happened recently.

Next time you watch a video/DVD/Blue-Ray/whatever at home, assuming you're in the US, take an actual look at the FBI piracy notice. It's pretty clear that even non-profit violations are forbidden. Of course, we all go up to YouTube or the like and watch snippets and clips that are illegal but never prosecuted (although YouTube does take them down when asked to), it's like speeding just a little bit - it's almost never enforced, but it could be at any time.

I do agree that Axanar, due to the size of the violation, became a target worth pursuing. And it's a shame, because I think it would have been a good work but I don't think we'll ever get to see it.

[Elheru Aran]

Paramount don't give a shit if someone uses ST IP. That much is apparent. Conventions, uniforms, fonts, fan films, websites... all of that, they don't (historically) give a shit about.

This is untrue. I started attending Star Trek cons in 1972 or 73 - it was a long time ago so I can't give you a precise date. Paramount very much gave a shit, and over the years various people have been sued or given cease-and-desist letters by the IP owner but it's been mostly small scale and hasn't happened recently.

Next time you watch a video/DVD/Blue-Ray/whatever at home, assuming you're in the US, take an actual look at the FBI piracy notice. It's pretty clear that even non-profit violations are forbidden. Of course, we all go up to YouTube or the like and watch snippets and clips that are illegal but never prosecuted (although YouTube does take them down when asked to), it's like speeding just a little bit - it's almost never enforced, but it could be at any time.

I do agree that Axanar, due to the size of the violation, became a target worth pursuing. And it's a shame, because I think it would have been a good work but I don't think we'll ever get to see it.

Yeah, "giving a shit" about the IP pretty much comes down to a matter of scale for a lot of corporations. They don't care if a lot of fans are all doing their own individual little things; when some fans start getting together and start making a bigger thing, then they notice.

Cosplay is historically an area of very lax IP regulation, mostly because you can't really regulate it, and it encourages your fanbase by making them feel like you care. Now, if a cosplayer starts producing stuff and selling it for a profit, expect fingers to be waggled. Stuff that falls under 'parody' such as the various porn parodies also gets a pass-- some of that stuff is surprisingly well done these days.

Fanfilms do tend to get a little more scrutiny, but we've talked enough about that here.

EDIT: Bearing what I said about 'very lax IP regulation' re cosplay, if it's brought to the attention of the IP owner, usually a C&D will be issued if they feel it's damaging their brand. For example, if someone made a pin-up calendar of Star Trek models in cut-down/modified uniforms, Paramount might think that was "over-sexualizing" the brand and would happily issue a C&D even if they were passing the calendar out for free. Similar C&D's have been issued, for example, against Rule 34 fanart, I think.

So if you show up at a Trek con and your girlfriend (or you) is only dressed in a TNG-colors thong, expect to be asked to leave.

EDIT2: From another angle, say you make a "war movie" fan-film that's based in the Trek universe (these new rules aside). You make it nice and gory, people getting exploded, corn-syrup blood everywhere. Paramount could well C&D that for 'damaging their brand' because Trek isn't known for gore. They'd rather people get cleanly disintegrated. Or, hell, a Stargate fan-film where the SG-team is prancing about in white lingerie. It's not just Paramount who's anal about stuff like that.

[Patroklos]

You know, Slate had an article about this today that got me thinking.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/mone ... o_its.html

Are both of these sides going about this the wrong way? In the case of Paramount they have essentially received tons of free publicity for the brand as well as a high quality product within the universe for free. As far as I can tell you tube movies don't take away profits from big screen and small screen franchise productions. I don't care how good IMPS was, it wasn't going to keep anyone from seeing TFA. Quite the contrary, it feeds the fandom firestorm and probably drives more viewings. From this perspective is it really rational to sue these guys into oblivion vice getting them the slap on the rist to protect their trademarks and then settling to bring this production and its assets under their umbrella? Included is that they CBS continuity guys get their cut. Even if its just to take the lions share of any profits then clearly revoking their permissions regarding future ST based productions its still a win win.

Also on the side of the Axanar guys, what do they hope to gain from denying their obvious wrongdoing? Fall on your knees and admit your guilt, but offer up what you have made to CBS. Sure we screwed up, but here is a product on a silver platter that you didn't have to lift a finger to create. Let us continue to receive salaries out of the projects funds and you get any actual profit. Zero investment by CBS, zero risk, potential profit. Deal?

Maybe its not realistic, but there is opportunity here that both are squandering.

[Rogue 9]

Their wrongdoing isn't that obvious; they have a pretty good case in that CBS has been neglecting to defend the property for so long and made a good amount of missteps and overreach in their case filing. Winston and Strawn is a top notch IP law firm; they wouldn't take the case pro bono if they thought they had no chance. (The same firm successfully defended Chapterhouse Studios against Games Workshop in an infringement case involving the former making and selling alternative parts to fit the latter's Warhammer 40,000 model line and advertising them as such a couple of years ago.) I'll say it again; if they rolled over and conceded the suit, they'd simply have to pay everything CBS and Paramount asked for in their initial filing. By lawyering up and fighting it they can attempt to force a settlement. I don't think they can outright win and still get to make the film, but they might get out of it without losing their shirts; that wouldn't happen if they admitted liability.

[Rogue 9]

Anyway, to get back to the subject of the thread (the stupid fanfilm rules, not Axanar), Star Trek Continues plans to plow ahead and ignore them.

STAR TREK CONTINUES plans to make FOUR more full episodes…hopefully

Jonathan Lane
August 9, 2016

When the new fan film guidelines were announced by CBS and Paramount, one of the biggest concerns was what would happen to Star Trek Continues. This celebrated fan series now violated most of the guidelines, including a run time of more than 15 minutes per episode, the fact it was a continuing series in the first place, their recent $200,000 crowd-funding campaign (the new limit is $50,000), the distribution of perks, their use of professional actors and crew (including some who have previously worked on Star Trek films and/or licensed products), and of course, the words “Star Trek” in the title.

Of course, fans didn’t mind any of this. In fact, Star Trek Continues remains one of the most popular and successful of all the fan series…with a passionate and devoted following (including myself, a proud donor). And that’s why we were so concerned that these new guidelines would spell the end of Star Trek Continues (as they had already claimed another beloved fan series, Star Trek: New Voyages).

It had already been announced that STC‘s seventh full-length episode, “Embracing the Winds,” would be premiering on September 2 at Salt Lake City Comic Con and then the following day at the Toronto Fan Expo. And the assumption of a number of fan series has been that any film already in post production would be allowed to be released, even if it didn’t follow all the new guidelines.

But what about future episodes of STC? Show-runner Vic Mignogna had gone on record many times saying that he always planned for the series to run about 13 episodes, with the final 2 or 3 containing story arcs that would evolve into the character situations at the beginning of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Seven released episodes is more than halfway there, but would fans once again be cheated of seeing the USS Enterprise complete its original 5-year mission?

STC fans like me were a somewhat reassured when Vic said this in their most recent newsletter :

I want to assuage any concerns that our fans may have about the current climate. We fully intend that the kind donations from our supporters will be used for the exact purpose for which they were donated.

STAR TREK CONTINUES is the only official 501(c)3 non-profit Trek fan production company out there dedicated solely to TREK. We are awaiting further clarification, but I am optimistic about completing our planned series and I would like to ask all of our fans to remain optimistic with us. We have a plan to bring STAR TREK CONTINUES to a close with an outstanding final episode arc.

We are working at warp speed to complete STAR TREK CONTINUES.

While I certainly appreciated the update, it left my head spinning with questions! Would STC still be making 13 total episodes? Would the episodes now all be 15 minutes long instead of 60? How can STC go on as a continuing series if the very concept of a continuing series now violates the very first guideline?

With these questions and more on my mind, I approached Vic Mignogna on Saturday evening at the Las Vegas CREATION convention right after The Roddenberries had finished their amazing 90-minute concert. I introduced myself as an STC donor and fan and also as the writer of Fan Film Factor. And that’s when I asked Vic: “Are you going to be able to finish your series?”

“We’re sure going to try to!” he replied.

“But what about the new guidelines?” I followed up. “Will you still be able to make all 13 episodes you had planned?”

As I was asking these questions, STC writer/director/co-producer James Kerwin wandered into the conversation, and I introduced myself. As more people were surrounding Vic to talk about various things, Vic turned to James and asked him to address my questions. I explained to James that I was a blogger for Fan Film Factor and asked if I could quote his answers on the record. James happily agreed and had this to say…

JAMES: We’re planning to complete four more full-length episodes.

JONATHAN: Are you planning any more crowd-funding campaigns?

JAMES: No more crowd-funding.

JONATHAN: So can you make four full episodes with the $200,000 you have have from your last campaign?

JAMES: We actually have closer to $400,000.

JONATHAN: Did I miss an Indiegogo campaign???

JAMES: No, but we had some private investors come through for us. I think we’re somewhere between having $350,000 and $400,000 to work with…and that should be enough for four more episodes.

JONATHAN: Do those four include the one coming out next month?

JAMES: No, we’re planning for another four episodes after that.

JONATHAN: So you’ll wind up with eleven episodes total.

JAMES: That’s our intention.

JONATHAN: And they’re all going to be full-length, one-hour episodes…not 15 minutes each?

JAMES: Again, that’s our intention. We want to finish up the series, and we’re going to try to make these last four episodes as quickly as we can.

JONATHAN: So the obvious question is: what about the fan film guidelines? You guys violate nearly every one of them.

JAMES: Here’s the thing that a lot of people aren’t understanding about the guidelines. What CBS and Paramount have said is: If you follow all of these guidelines, then we will not sue you. But it doesn’t say: if you don’t follow these guidelines, then we will sue you. There is a big distinction there.

JONATHAN: So you’re going to make these four episodes and hope you don’t get sued by the studios?

JAMES: Over the years, we’ve had a very good relationship with CBS. We’ve been very respectful of them, which is something that isn’t true of all fan films. Additionally, we’re a 501(c)3 non-profit entity.

JONATHAN: And you think that’ll keep you off their radar?

JAMES: We’re not planning to hide anything that we’re doing. But we want to finish our series…if the studios will allow us to. We want to maintain our good relationship with them no matter what. So be sure to tell the readers on your blog that this is only what we want to do and what we’re planning to do. It’s not a guarantee that we will do it. We are going to try to do it because that’s what our donors have supported us doing. But in the end, and most of all, we want to be respectful of CBS and Paramount, who own the rights to Star Trek.

As a fan of STC, I’m cautiously excited as all heck right now. As the writer of Fan Film Factor, though, I’m really curious to see how this ends up playing out. James did mention that STC is going to proceed with producing these remaining episodes as quickly as possible. And I sure wish them luck, as I definitely want to see as much of STC as the fates (and the studios) will allow.

Later in the weekend, I was chatting with a couple of other fan series producers about James and Vic’s comments, and one of the other fan filmmakers had an interesting take. Asking not to be identified by name, this person still allowed me to quote them:

“The studios saw what happened when they sued Axanar, and it wasn’t pretty. It’s still a real mess for them. Now, Continues has fans who are just as dedicated to their series as the Axanar fans are to their project…but they aren’t all the same fans. So if CBS and Paramount move against Continues, they’re going to piss off a whole NEW set of fans and come off looking like a huge bully. It’ll be really ugly. So if the studios are smart, they’ll let STC finish up, go away, and just concentrate on suing Axanar.”

[Broomstick]

Star Trek Continues is still taking a gamble. I hope it works out for them.

[Batman]

I think it's a carefully calculated one. Essentially they're saying 'we want to do do it, we plan to do it, but if CBS/Paramount say no, we won't do it', as opposed to Axanar's 'see you in court' attitude. Also, there's no indication I could find they intend to profit from this financially-again, unlike Axanar.
CBS/Paramount has little to gain from going after them but a lot of fan goodwill to earn for letting it go through.

[Rogue 9]

In other news, it's starting to look suspiciously like CBS looked at Axanar's crowdfunding success and used it as free market research for their new show. The precise point in the timeline that Star Trek: Discovery takes place in hasn't been nailed down in public, but they've hinted in interviews that it involves the Klingon-Federation War. This is from Jeremy Varner's blog, and is speculative at this point, but it seems well-founded speculation.

Discovery and Axanar
August 15, 2016 Jeremy

There are times I can admit I’m wrong and I’m happy to say I was wrong about the future of Star Trek. For a while, after watching one of my favorite shows die a slow death, I figured the franchise was done. Even when it was given a film reboot, I expected a cheap cash-grab to cap it off before the thing flat-lined. Needless to say, I’m actually kind of surprised that Star Trek is back on its feet in time for its 50th anniversary. It’s probably one of the few times a reboot has actually successfully relaunched a franchise. And it’s especially surprising given the guy who pulled it off.

Anyone who has followed this blog over the last few years will likely remember that I’ve taken a few quick shots at JJ Abrams and his ideas of storytelling. I’m not against mystery plots in speculative fiction worlds, I’ve written two so far myself, but the way he goes about it is less like telling a well crafted story and more about telling a story, leaving out half the details, and then telling you that was the point. He’s basically three flops away from being the next M Night Shyamalan.

But, I’ve got to give him credit for this: he did manage to revitalize Star Trek and it was looking like that wasn’t going to happen for a while. After Star Trek: Enterprise suffered an ignoble death at the hands of UPN and Nemesis gave the movies a shot to the kidneys, there really wasn’t a lot of reason to hope for the future of Trek. The 2009 reboot, in a lot of ways, was a Hail Mary to keep the property running. Need evidence? The 11 years since Enterprise went off the air has been the longest time without a Trek show on TV since the gap between TOS and TNG. And what made TNG possible? The Star Trek movies did damn well in the 80s too.

So for all the things I disagree with Abrams on, I have to admit that he gave the franchise a shot of life it needed at a fairly dark time. Now, Star Trek news is all over the place and people are actually excited about the property again. Star Trek Beyond is getting pretty solid reviews despite the turbulence involved in getting it together. There’s a new show coming to air in 2017, Star Trek: Discovery, and a lot of fan communities are getting excited about it – even new viewers, which is something the franchise hadn’t had for years before Abrams’ movie. And recently, as of this writing, the internet is buzzing again with news about Discovery’s showrunner, Bryan Fuller, giving us an insight into what he plans to do with the series next year.

Oh, and Fuller also accidentally confirmed why CBS sued Axanar.

To Boldly Go Where No Fan Can Go

For months, after the sudden and surprising lawsuit leveled against the production studio behind Axanar, people have been putting in their two cents on just why they would get sued. Some have argued it was because they raised over a million dollars in crowdfunding. This is definitely a good argument, and some people within the fan-film community have said that Axanar basically spoiled everything by going too far. But CBS and Paramount’s new guidelines actually condone crowdfunding (though no where near a million dollars). So then the question would be, is it because so many old cast and crew members were involved? Once again, probably a valid argument, and people are being banned from doing so in the future. But this would ignore the fact that cast and crew have been involved in these things for decades and that a simple non-compete clause could have prevented it.

It all just leads to a lot of questions without answers, because for every point of contention you could raise you find that CBS and Paramount were just fine with it until Axanar. One could argue that it was a matter of degrees, but then if no profit is being made and no contracts are being violated, why would those degrees matter? The only explanation that makes sense, and the one that lingered the longest without any direct evidence, was that Axanar proved to be a threat to the official productions. But, as I argued the last time, Axanar wasn’t even really in the same genre as Abrams’ movies – one being clearly portrayed as a more serious war oriented movie and the other being an action adventure space romp. Even Abrams agreed that there shouldn’t be a lawsuit against the production.

Then Discovery came along, Bryan Fuller started talking about what it was going to be, and a lot of people had their “Eureka” moment.

You see, in the short time since we have had some actual information on what Discovery was going to be about, a few things had become readily clear. First, this was going to be a prequel that was going to take place before the original Star Trek but after Enterprise. Second, it was going to explore part of the Star Trek timeline that had been talked about often but never directly explored. And third, it was going to be told in the style of Bryan Fuller, a guy known for being a lot more edgy than previous Trek showrunners, with his biggest claim to fame being a show about a cannibal who was readily seen cutting up human corpses.

Suddenly, a lot of people started to connect the dots and see that maybe, just maybe, Axanar was a threat to the shows and not the movies. The more serious, even grim, tone was going to probably be provided by Fuller. It also couldn’t be ignored that the two were both presented as prequels closer to The Original Series than to Enterprise. The only question left was just what event was Discovery going to cover, and Bryan Fuller answered in a way that came off cryptic to casual fans but was clear as day to the Trekkie hoards.

“Fuller teased that there was an event in the history of the Federation that had been discussed, but not explored. When asked if it was set during the Romulan War, Fuller said “close, but no cigar.”

To most people, just getting into the history of the Star Trek universe, that wouldn’t really be a huge signal. But to others? The fact the Romulan war is “close” means that it has to be an event of similar importance and likely content. The problem, really, is that there are very few events that happened between Enterprise and The Original Series which had any “discussion”. And, in fact, there were so few events worth talking about that even the interview above came down to “does it involve the Battle of Axanar?”

To be fair to Fuller, he said that they weren’t going to be doing anything involving the Battle of Axanar. And I’m really excited to see what he does on the writing front, because they’re talking about making it a serialized story. But the fact remains that whatever he’s dealing with, given the slim pickings made available when you ignore the Romulan war, is going to be shockingly similar in content to what Axanar was doing. And, due to a couple musical cues and some designs seen in the teaser trailer for Discovery, a lot of people are thinking Discovery is going to be about an open conflict with these guys.

[Picture of a Klingon]

And the problem for Fuller, and CBS, is that Axanar presented the Klingons as the big enemy during the titular battle. So what CBS is offering is an armed conflict that doesn’t deal with the Romulans directed by someone known more for his grim tones. This wouldn’t be a problem under most circumstances, but Axanar did fantastic for a fan production and even its 20 minute sort film, which was mostly a proof of concept, gave a fantastic show of the crew’s skills. And that, there, was the final nail in the coffin. With the subject matters seeming to be so damn close, CBS couldn’t really afford to be outdone by a fan production. The effects of Axanar, despite being handled by an independent studio, were highly professional and exciting.

A lot of people would look at that and say that they don’t really see why CBS would be threatened, because clearly CBS could do the same. But it’s also hard to ignore that, as we learn the potential content of the show, the timing of their actions also add some validity to this theory. Axanar’s initial fundraiser started in July of 2014 without a peep from CBS or Paramount. It did fantastic. Then, it did it again in 2015 for a second round of funding to bump it over that million mark. CBS then announced that they were going to do a new Star Trek show in November of 2015. Then, in December 2015, 17 months after Axanar’s first fundraiser, but only one month after Discovery’s announcement, CBS finally sued!

You can’t tell me a studio worried about the fundraising took that damn long to respond. In fact, had Axanar not run into a couple production problems, their original plan was to begin shooting in October 2015. This means Axanar, barring the problems that slowed them down, almost had enough time to fundraise and shoot in the time it took CBS and Paramount to respond. And it’s not like it was low on the radar, it raised over a million dollars. George Takei even advertised this thing to the rest of the world on social media. The original Prelude to Axanar was even aired at Comic-Con!

Instead, they didn’t say a single word on the subject until almost a year and a half after the ball started rolling and a full 4 months after they broke the million dollar mark. They didn’t say one word, even a cease and desist, until long after the community was already hyped. And they didn’t say one word until a month after they announced a show that we now know to be set in the same time period. To say it shows some insecurity right now would be an understatement.

But why am I so sure they were insecure? For as impressive as a million sounds, it’s pretty small for a feature film. All Axanar Productions really had was talent, passion, and drive. They put $80,000 into a 20 minute proof of concept. But in 4 months, Prelude to Axanar went from funded to being aired in San Diego Comic Con as one of the slickest Trek fan-films of all time. That success led to them raising the million dollars down the line. But a full two years after Axanar first hit the scene, CBS got their chance to step up and show the world what they had to offer. With 8 months of development behind them and who knows how much money a major network could muster, they stepped up with this…



You tell me if they had a reason to be insecure.

Also, the fact that Horizon has been the only other fanfilm subject to legal action so far strongly suggests that this is an, if not the, actual motive: Their ship was named USS Discovery.

So if this is true, and they're suing to keep direct thematic competition off of the new series, then Continues, Renegades, and the rest are likely fairly safe.

[Mange]

The precise point in the timeline that Star Trek: Discovery takes place in hasn't been nailed down in public, but they've hinted in interviews that it involves the Klingon-Federation War.

Yes, it has. At a panel at the Television Critics Association summer press tour on August 10, producer Bryan Fuller said that Star Trek: Discovery is set 10 years before TOS and suggested that it will not feature the Romulan War or the Battle of Axanar: TrekMovie

[Rogue 9]

The precise point in the timeline that Star Trek: Discovery takes place in hasn't been nailed down in public, but they've hinted in interviews that it involves the Klingon-Federation War.

Yes, it has. At a panel at the Television Critics Association summer press tour on August 10, producer Bryan Fuller said that Star Trek: Discovery is set 10 years before TOS and suggested that it will not feature the Romulan War or the Battle of Axanar: TrekMovie

If you read the post you would note that this very interview is linked within it, and that Fuller said that the Romulan war was "close, but no cigar." What is between ENT and TOS, closer to TOS, has been discussed but not shown in the canon before, and is close to, but not actually, the Romulan War?