The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Dear god they brought out Jarry Falwell jr.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
- The Romulan Republic
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 21559
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Republican Party 2016: How low can you go?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
- Gandalf
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Falwell might be their biggest speaker who isn't either a former presidential hopeful or a Trump.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Goddamnit if they would be streaming live camshows it would probably be more uplifting and entertaining than this shit.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Lol they just brought out the stereotypical televangelist mark burns.
"RACEBATING DEMOOOKRATS"
"AMUUUURICANS"
Seriously that is how he talks.
"RACEBATING DEMOOOKRATS"
"AMUUUURICANS"
Seriously that is how he talks.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Oh wait they bring out Fran Tarkenton.
He clearly has been taking too many shots to the head while playing football because he is just rambling.
He clearly has been taking too many shots to the head while playing football because he is just rambling.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
The credible threat of NATO retaliation for hostilities against members keeps Russia from posturing and attacking. The unclear stance of Trump ("I don't want Putin to know what I'm going to do") means that such hostilities may occur and escalate into a full scale war. NATO is a check on Russian aggression. Trump threw it into question. That is dangerous.Patroklos wrote:That actually makes nuclear war less likely if a chance actually existed, at least between the U.S. And Russia. How exactly does this increase the likelyhood of nuclear war?FireNexus wrote:Trump has implied that he will not defend our NATO allies if they fall behind on their bills. Nuclear war is actually on the table, folks.
(Note: I wouldn't say it's likely. But that statement is far and away the most irresponsible comment on foreign policy made by a US politician since the fall of the Soviet Union.)
Just so we are all clear, there is nothing this election can cause that will increase the likelyhood of nuclear war from the current 0%.
I had a Bill Maher quote here. But fuck him for his white privelegy "joke".
All the rest? Too long.
All the rest? Too long.
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Got it, so in other words still 0%.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Has there been any information revealed about what will happen to his business interests if, god forbid, he does become President. Naturally he couldn't remain the President & CEO of his companies, clear conflict of interest. I wonder if any vetting process, or potential job applicants, has been started. I'm not sure of the process but I'm betting getting someone to run a multi billion, multi country organization like his is not something that can be done in a weekend. Now admittedly we're a long ways away from the election date itself and the potential inauguration but shouldn't something like that have been started already?
Also would he be legally required to stand down? What happens if he refuses?
Also would he be legally required to stand down? What happens if he refuses?
- Gandalf
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- Location: A video store in Australia
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
I think Trump said that his children will take over the companies.
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"
- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist
"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
- George Carlin
- U.P. Cinnabar
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 3943
- Joined: 2016-02-05 08:11pm
- Location: Aboard the RCS Princess Cecile
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Meaning he will continue running his business(es) via the backdoor. Not the first public office holder to do that, nor the last.Gandalf wrote:I think Trump said that his children will take over the companies.
"Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone amongst God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him, drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of Death.."
—29th Scroll, 6th Verse of Ape Law
"Indelible in the hippocampus is the laughter. The uproarious laughter between the two, and their having fun at my expense.”
---Doctor Christine Blasey-Ford
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
A good dissection of the references in Trumps speech.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-i ... -annotated
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-i ... -annotated
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
------------
A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
This got lost in the shuffle a bit yesterday, but the courts struck down to of the more onerous voter ID/Voter restriction laws in the country.
First, in Texas:
First, in Texas:
And in MichiganFederal Court Rules Texas’ ID Law Violates Voting Rights Act
By MANNY FERNANDEZ and ERIK ECKHOLM JULY 20, 2016
Waiting to vote in the primary in Austin, Tex., on March 1. Credit Ilana Panich-Linsman for The New York Times
HOUSTON — A federal appeals court on Wednesday ruled that Texas’ voter identification law, one of the strictest in the country, violated the Voting Rights Act and that the state must find ways to accommodate voters who face hardships in obtaining the necessary documents.
Democrats and voting rights advocates hailed the ruling as a significant victory in one of the nation’s most closely watched voting rights cases. It was the fourth time in nearly four years that a federal court found that the Texas law discriminated against or disproportionately affected black and Hispanic voters.
“The court got it right, recognizing the stink of discrimination,” said Trey Martinez Fischer, a state representative who is the chairman of the Mexican-American Legislative Caucus, one of several minority groups, voters and Democratic lawmakers who sued Texas over the law.
The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, in New Orleans, found that the law had a discriminatory effect on blacks and Latinos, who often lack the forms of identification required under the Texas law. But the ruling did not strike down the law entirely, ruling instead that new procedures must be found to assist potential voters lacking the required identification.
The ruling also sent back for reconsideration the question of whether Texas legislators had acted with a discriminatory purpose in passing the law in 2011, a finding that would have forced new judicial oversight of any changes in Texas election rules.
Gov. Greg Abbott, a Republican who defended the voter ID law against legal challenges when he was the state’s attorney general, said the court had come to the wrong conclusion. Republican lawmakers have long defended the law, saying it is needed to prevent voter fraud.
“Voter fraud is real, and it undermines the integrity of the election process,” Mr. Abbott said in a statement. “Texas will continue to make sure there is no illegal voting at the ballot box.”
Passed by the Republican-dominated Legislature and signed by Gov. Rick Perry in 2011, the law took effect in 2013. It requires voters to present one of several forms of government-issued identification, including a driver’s license, passport, military ID card or concealed-handgun license.
A lower court judge found that about 608,000 registered voters in Texas lacked the types of identification required by the law, and that a disproportionate number were black or Hispanic. The judge based that finding on testimony and data presented by experts during a 2014 trial in Corpus Christi. Texas’ lawyers disputed that figure.
In its ruling, the Fifth Circuit asked a lower court judge to come up with a remedy that “disrupts voter identification rules for the 2016 election season as little as possible, yet eliminates” the law’s discriminatory effect on minority voters. One possible solution, the court noted, would be to allow voter-registration cards to be used as identification. The court also instructed the judge to re-evaluate the evidence about whether the Texas Legislature intentionally discriminated against blacks and Hispanics, but encouraged the judge to wait until after the November election.
The Texas attorney general, Ken Paxton, said in a statement that the state had a duty to safeguard elections. “Preventing voter fraud is essential to accurately reflecting the will of Texas voters during elections, and it is unfortunate that this common-sense law, providing protections against fraud, was not upheld in its entirety,” Mr. Paxton said.
Asked if the state would appeal the decision to the Supreme Court, a spokeswoman for Mr. Paxton, Kayleigh Lovvorn, replied, “We are evaluating all of our options right now.”
Richard L. Hasen, a law professor at the University of California, Irvine, called the decision on Wednesday “huge in a symbolic way” for voting rights across the country.
Since the Supreme Court weakened the federal Voting Rights Act in 2013, he noted, several states have been “ratcheting up” their voter ID requirements.
What the Fifth Circuit — known as perhaps the country’s most conservative appeals court — has ruled is that “you can go too far with a voter ID law,” he said.
“If Texas had been allowed to do what it’s been trying to do, that would be a green light for other states to try something similar,” Professor Hasen said.
But he added that the plaintiffs’ victory was not as great as it would have been if the court had struck down the law.
Myrna Pérez, the deputy director of the democracy program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University, which helped argue the plaintiffs’ case, called the ruling a “big victory.”
“The court said the law is discriminatory and needs to be fixed,’’ she said.
Judge blocks Michigan ban on straight-party voting
Jennifer Chambers, The Detroit News 6:48 a.m. EDT July 22, 2016
State election officials plan to appeal a court order striking down Michigan’s new law banning straight-ticket voting, potentially creating complications for the November election.
Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette and Secretary of State Ruth Johnson will file an appeal on Monday or Tuesday on U.S. District Court Judge Gershwin A. Drain’s decision to issue four preliminary injunctions against state election officials, Schuette spokesman John Sellek said Thursday.
“We have no further comment at this time other than to confirm that we will appeal in defense of this state law as passed by the Legislature and signed by the governor,” Selleck said.
In a passionate 37-page opinion announced Thursday, Drain said the new law will reduce African-Americans’ opportunity to participate in the state’s political process and puts a disproportionate burden on African-Americans’ right to vote.
Sarah Bydalek, Walker city clerk and president of the Michigan Association of Municipal Clerks, said the deadline in Michigan for final ballot language for the Nov. 8 election is Aug. 16 and all ballots must be ready by Sept. 24 to send overseas to members of the U.S. armed forces.
“We are under tight times constraints, and I would hope they would not appeal this and it can be looked into after November. Our general election is going to be 90 percent turnout, it’s a big ballot with two pages, front and back in some counties, and already long wait times,” Bydalek said.
Drain said the real question the court must answer is whether the burden caused by the law is “in part caused by or linked to ‘social and historical conditions that have produced or currently produce discrimination against African-Americans.’
“This question is unavoidably answered in the affirmative. African-Americans are much more likely to vote Democrat than other ethnic groups, and many feel this is largely due to racially charged political stances taken by Republicans on the local, state and national level since the post-World War II era,” Drain wrote.
Drain, a President Barack Obama appointee, cited a report by Kurt Metzger, a regional information specialist with the U.S. Census Bureau in Detroit, who found a direct correlation between the use of straight-party voting within a community and the African-American population within that community.
Metzger found 15 Michigan cities with a straight-party voting rate of 65 percent or higher. Of those, two were majority white. The five cities with rates greater than 75 percent were all majority African-American.
“It’s no secret that racial discrimination in the state of Michigan has had traumatic effects on education, employment and health in the African-American community,” Drain wrote.
“It is not difficult to imagine how these effects, particularly in the employment setting, have made it more difficult for African-Americans to participate in the political process. ... The Court finds that the effects of discrimination hinder African-Americans’ ability to participate effectively in the political process.”
Aug. 2 primary unaffected
Drain’s injunctions are an early win for the three Michigan residents and the state chapter of the A. Philip Randolph Institute who sued Johnson over the law on May 24.
The case continues on Aug. 1 when both sides are expected to meet in Detroit before Drain for a scheduling conference to discuss future deadlines and hearings in the case.
The order does not affect the Aug. 2 primary, said Secretary of State spokesman Fred Woodhams.
Gov. Rick Snyder defended the elimination of straight-party voting in a Thursday interview at a Cleveland event he hosted for Michigan Republicans attending the GOP national convention.
“The reason I signed it is I think it’s a good part of the process that people look at each individual office and they look at each candidate,” Snyder said. “It’s not just about partisan politics, but they review the people in that particular and make a decision as who the best one is.”
Michigan’s Republican-led Legislature approved the elimination of straight-ticket voting in December, with supporters arguing it would encourage a more informed electorate and end a policy holdover from the days of big party bosses.
But the effort seeking an injunction against it — argued orally last week by Mary Ellen Gurewitz and Mark Brewer for the plaintiff, the Michigan chapter of the A. Philip Randolph Institute — asserts the state’s ban on straight-ticket voting would have disproportionate harm on minority voters in “an election of great consequence” in November.
If each voter is filling out 18 or 30 bubbles rather than just one, the argument went, each voter will take longer to vote, which would have a ripple effect resulting in longer lines and, for impatient voters or those without the time, possible disenfranchisement.
Brewer, the former Michigan Democratic Party chairman, welcomed the judge’s decision.
“It’s a great victory for the voters of this state,” he said. “They’ve had the right to vote straight-party for 125 years, and they’ve twice, in referendum, overwhelmingly said they want to keep it. And that’s what this is.”
House speaker weighs in
But House Speaker Kevin Cotter, R-Mount Pleasant, called the judge’s ruling “bizarre” because residents vote for individual candidates, not necessarily parties.
“The court’s opinion did not focus enough on the needs of voters, instead fighting odd rhetorical battles over which party deserves to win the trust of certain voters,” Cotter said in a statement. “An objective evaluation of the constitutionality of the more modern ballot, already adopted by 40 other states, would have resulted in a very different outcome.”
In their argument, state election officials said measures were taken to combat long wait times by adding a $5 million appropriation.
In his opinion, Drain said the appropriation presumably was to be spent on more voting booths and staff, but the state had not provided that information on a county-by-county basis.
“There is evidence that it would actually take $30 million, six times the amount appropriated, to adequately combat long lines,” he wrote.
Assistant Attorney General Erik Grill, representing Johnson, argued last week the elimination of straight-ticket voting wouldn’t prevent anyone from voting down the party line — they’d just have to fill in more bubbles.
“Voters are absolutely able to vote for whichever party they choose to, be it Democratic, Republican, Socialist or Communist,” Grill said.
He said in Ottawa County, which is 93 percent white, about 60 percent of voters vote straight-ticket. Grill also criticized what he called Metzger’s “cherry-picked” study for focusing on nine out of Michigan’s 83 counties. Ottawa County was not one of them.
“If they’re being affected, too, it’s not disparate impact, just impact,” he said.
Drain noted in his decision, which came a week after hearing oral arguments, that the matter had been pending for seven weeks and “time is of the essence.”
“The election is less than four months away, and election officials need to have adequate opportunity to prepare,” Drain wrote.
jchambers@detroitnews.com
Staff Writers James Dickson, Jim Lynch and Chad Livengood contributed
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there is nothing new under the sun.
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Clinton has picked Tim Kaine as her VP
Hillary Clinton Selects Tim Kaine, a Centrist Senator From a Swing State, as Running Mate
Hillary Clinton named Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia to be her running mate Friday, according to a senior campaign official, selecting a battleground state politician with working-class roots and a fluency in Spanish, traits that she believes can bolster her chances to defeat Donald J. Trump in November.
Mrs. Clinton’s choice came after her advisers spent months poring over potential vice-presidential candidates who could lift the Democratic ticket in an unpredictable race against Mr. Trump.
In the end, Mrs. Clinton decided Mr. Kaine, 58, a former governor of Virginia who sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and speaks fluent Spanish, had the qualifications and background and the personal chemistry with her to make the ticket a success.
Mrs. Clinton had entertained more daring choices. She considered Thomas E. Perez, the secretary of labor, who would have been the first Hispanic on a major party ticket; Senator Cory Booker, of New Jersey, who would have been the first African-American to seek the vice presidency; and Adm. James G. Stavridis, a retired four-star Navy admiral who served as the supreme allied commander at NATO, but had never held elected office.
In the end, Mrs. Clinton, who told PBS she is “afflicted with the responsibility gene,” avoided taking a chance with a less experienced vice-presidential candidate and felt no political need to push the historic nature of her candidacy by adding another woman or a minority to the ticket.
Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Kaine have similar centrist positions on foreign policy, education and criminal justice and they are said to share an easy rapport and a love of granular policy-making. “I do have a fondness for wonks,” Mrs. Clinton said in the PBS interview.
Asked whether Mr. Kaine was boring, Mrs. Clinton said “I love that about him.” She added, “He’s never lost an election.”
At a campaign stop with Mrs. Clinton in Annandale, Va., last week, Mr. Kaine tried out for the role. “Do you want a ‘You’re fired’ president or a ‘You’re hired’ president?” he asked the crowd. “Do you want a trash-talking president or a bridge-building president?” He compared Mrs. Clinton’s record of public service to that of his wife, Anne Holton, Virginia’s secretary of education. In recent days, President Bill Clinton and the White House had expressed support for Mr. Kaine.
Known as a pragmatic governor and senator, Mr. Kaine could help Mrs. Clinton appeal to independent voters and moderate Republicans displeased with Mr. Trump. But he could also turn off some liberal Democrats with his support of free trade agreements, which Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont criticized to great effect in his nominating fight against Mrs. Clinton.
The son of a welder who owned a small metalworking shop, Mr. Kaine, a Roman Catholic, grew up in the Kansas City area. He attended a Jesuit boarding school and took a break from law school at Harvard to spend time as a Catholic missionary in Honduras, an experience that his family has said shaped him and helped him become fluent in Spanish.
Mrs. Clinton is expected to formally introduce Mr. Kaine as her running mate during a campaign swing through Florida, either at a rally at the state fairgrounds in Tampa on Friday or on Saturday at Florida International University in Miami, which has a large number of Hispanic students.
Mr. Kaine worked on fair housing and civil right issues as a lawyer. He was elected to the city council in Richmond, Va., in 1994, then proceeded to climb the ranks of elected office in the state. He became city’s mayor in 1998, the state’s lieutenant governor in 2002 and its governor in 2006. He also served as chairman of the Democratic National Committee.
As governor, Mr. Kaine drew some support from rural parts of the state as well strong backing in the state’s Democratic-leaning suburban areas. He led the state through one of its darkest times, the shooting at Virginia Tech that killed 32 people in 2007. In 2013, Mr. Kaine implored the United States Senate to find a “small measure of courage” to fight the gun lobby and impose tougher background checks on gun ownership.
Mr. Kaine was an early endorser of Senator Barack Obama’s presidential bid in the 2008 nominating fight against Mrs. Clinton. Mr. Kaine was also considered on Mr. Obama’s short list of vice-presidential candidates before Mr,. Obama selected Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware. In 2012, Mr. Kaine defeated George Allen, a Republican, to take the Senate seat being vacated by the Democrat Jim Webb.
Mrs. Clinton’s choice of Mr. Kaine underscores the changing demographics of Virginia, with its growing urban and minority populations.
Mr. Obama defeated John McCain in the state by more than six percentage points, the first time since Lyndon B. Johnson’s victory in 1964 that the state had voted for a Democratic presidential nominee. An NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll from July 15 shows Mrs. Clinton ahead of Mr. Trump for the state’s 13 electoral votes by nine percentage points.
With just days remaining before her announcement of a running mate, Mrs. Clinton had not yet made up her mind as her advisers debated what attributes voters might want in a vice president. She told Mr. Kaine and the other candidates of her decision in a round of phone calls on Friday. Mrs. Clinton came to the process with a unique vantage point, having been closely involved in her husband’s selection of then-Senator Al Gore of Tennessee in 1992, a choice that brought youth and Southern charm to a ticket already overflowing with it.
Mr. Trump, in contrast, had different needs. He selected Gov. Mike Pence of Indiana as his running mate, selecting a man with whom he has had little prior relationship. Mr. Pence, however, was chosen to help the New York businessman win the support of far-right conservatives who are skeptical of Mr. Trump’s social positions.
Mrs. Clinton has called Mr. Pence the “most extreme pick in a generation,” highlighting his positions against same-sex marriage and abortion rights and his support for prayer in the schools.
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
I am deeply disturbed and disappointed by this choice. While my preference was for Warren, I feel that almost anyone qualified to do the job would have been better than Kaine, for two reasons.
1. Kaine is... boring. He might be a capable President if it came down to it, which is obviously the most important concern, but their are other people who would also be capable Presidents who would do far more to excite voters and ensure high turnout.
2. Most damagingly, Kaine is a centrist who is known to lean in favour of the TPP and support deregulating some banks. No doubt Clinton is hoping to win over Right wingers disaffected with Trump (or just ensure she keeps getting those nice big Wall Street donations), but I fear that she's doing it at the expense of a certain number of progressive voters. Clinton has signalled that she is dealing falsely with progressives on these issues, and that she has no intention of keeping her word. Expect at least a slight rise in Bernie or Bust numbers now.
Its also putting Trump on stronger ground with the anti-TPP people in general. He can now play the populist anti-Trade deal people for all they're worth, just like Brexit.
I will, of course, continue to grudgingly support Hillary Clinton due to the alternative, but if she still manages to win despite this brain-dead choice, this kind of thing is going to make me support a primary challenge in four years.
1. Kaine is... boring. He might be a capable President if it came down to it, which is obviously the most important concern, but their are other people who would also be capable Presidents who would do far more to excite voters and ensure high turnout.
2. Most damagingly, Kaine is a centrist who is known to lean in favour of the TPP and support deregulating some banks. No doubt Clinton is hoping to win over Right wingers disaffected with Trump (or just ensure she keeps getting those nice big Wall Street donations), but I fear that she's doing it at the expense of a certain number of progressive voters. Clinton has signalled that she is dealing falsely with progressives on these issues, and that she has no intention of keeping her word. Expect at least a slight rise in Bernie or Bust numbers now.
Its also putting Trump on stronger ground with the anti-TPP people in general. He can now play the populist anti-Trade deal people for all they're worth, just like Brexit.
I will, of course, continue to grudgingly support Hillary Clinton due to the alternative, but if she still manages to win despite this brain-dead choice, this kind of thing is going to make me support a primary challenge in four years.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
I'm hilariously not worried. He's more to the left than Biden is. Just a reminder that back in ‘08, when Obama picked Biden, everyone was like “That boring old white dude?” Then he became the functional id of the White House. And now we’re all like UNCLE JOE PLEASE DON’T LEAVE US.The Romulan Republic wrote:I am deeply disturbed and disappointed by this choice. While my preference was for Warren, I feel that almost anyone qualified to do the job would have been better than Kaine, for two reasons.
1. Kaine is... boring. He might be a capable President if it came down to it, which is obviously the most important concern, but their are other people who would also be capable Presidents who would do far more to excite voters and ensure high turnout.
2. Most damagingly, Kaine is a centrist who is known to lean in favour of the TPP and support deregulating some banks. No doubt Clinton is hoping to win over Right wingers disaffected with Trump (or just ensure she keeps getting those nice big Wall Street donations), but I fear that she's doing it at the expense of a certain number of progressive voters. Clinton has signalled that she is dealing falsely with progressives on these issues, and that she has no intention of keeping her word. Expect at least a slight rise in Bernie or Bust numbers now.
Its also putting Trump on stronger ground with the anti-TPP people in general. He can now play the populist anti-Trade deal people for all they're worth, just like Brexit.
I will, of course, continue to grudgingly support Hillary Clinton due to the alternative, but if she still manages to win despite this brain-dead choice, this kind of thing is going to make me support a primary challenge in four years.
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- Emperor's Hand
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
I'll say this about boring old white dudes: they have a nearly unbroken track record of winning presidential elections, and often defeat interesting old white dudes.
Since Trump fits the category "interesting old white dude" even if the interest in question is 'my God, what horrible thing is going to come out of that braying jackass's mouth next?' the situation may be less clear-cut than it seems.
Also, Clinton is one of the oldest people ever to run for president, and about half of the people older than her died or were taken seriously ill in office. Her getting sick or kicking the bucket is a real possibility. So a boring VP who seems solid and competent may be the way to go if she's trying to reassure people about that, speculatively.
Since Trump fits the category "interesting old white dude" even if the interest in question is 'my God, what horrible thing is going to come out of that braying jackass's mouth next?' the situation may be less clear-cut than it seems.
Also, Clinton is one of the oldest people ever to run for president, and about half of the people older than her died or were taken seriously ill in office. Her getting sick or kicking the bucket is a real possibility. So a boring VP who seems solid and competent may be the way to go if she's trying to reassure people about that, speculatively.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Literally nothing in this post is true except your statement of opinion at the beginning. They called him Crazy old Joe Biden from the beginning, but added that his decades of experience balanced Obama's lack of it. Kane isn't to the left of anyone but the Republicans who have gone so far to the right they're almost off the scale . He's pro big bank, pro TPP until it's not popular, pro fracking, etc.Gaidin wrote:I'm hilariously not worried. He's more to the left than Biden is. Just a reminder that back in ‘08, when Obama picked Biden, everyone was like “That boring old white dude?” Then he became the functional id of the White House. And now we’re all like UNCLE JOE PLEASE DON’T LEAVE US.The Romulan Republic wrote:I am deeply disturbed and disappointed by this choice. While my preference was for Warren, I feel that almost anyone qualified to do the job would have been better than Kaine, for two reasons.
1. Kaine is... boring. He might be a capable President if it came down to it, which is obviously the most important concern, but their are other people who would also be capable Presidents who would do far more to excite voters and ensure high turnout.
2. Most damagingly, Kaine is a centrist who is known to lean in favour of the TPP and support deregulating some banks. No doubt Clinton is hoping to win over Right wingers disaffected with Trump (or just ensure she keeps getting those nice big Wall Street donations), but I fear that she's doing it at the expense of a certain number of progressive voters. Clinton has signalled that she is dealing falsely with progressives on these issues, and that she has no intention of keeping her word. Expect at least a slight rise in Bernie or Bust numbers now.
Its also putting Trump on stronger ground with the anti-TPP people in general. He can now play the populist anti-Trade deal people for all they're worth, just like Brexit.
I will, of course, continue to grudgingly support Hillary Clinton due to the alternative, but if she still manages to win despite this brain-dead choice, this kind of thing is going to make me support a primary challenge in four years.
- Broomstick
- Emperor's Hand
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- Location: Industrial armpit of the US Midwest
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Between Hillary's age and the fact that all US presidents are potential (and all too often actual) targets of attempted assassination picking a "boring old white dude" isn't a bad option for VP.
A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. Leonard Nimoy.
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.
If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich. - John F. Kennedy
Sam Vimes Theory of Economic Injustice
- Wild Zontargs
- Padawan Learner
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Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
So, how much coverage is the latest batch of Wikileaks emails actually getting down there? Lots of dirt from the DNC on supporting Clinton over Sanders on the inside from the start, manipulating the media, some sketchy financial issues, etc.
Leaked DNC emails reveal secret plans to take on Sanders
Twitter users erupt: #DNCLeaks disappears from trending news as WikiLeaks emails released
Leaked DNC emails reveal secret plans to take on Sanders
It sounds like Twitter was attempting to squash discussion of this at one point:Top officials at the Democratic National Committee (DNC) privately planned how to undermine Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign, according to a trove of emails released by WikiLeaks on Friday.
The Sanders campaign had long claimed the DNC and Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz had tipped the scales in favor of Hillary Clinton during the party’s presidential primary.
The email release will reignite that controversy just days before Democrats gather in Philadelphia for their convention to officially nominate Clinton for president.
Guccifer 2.0 told The Hill he leaked the documents to Wikileaks.
In one May 21 email, DNC press secretary Mark Paustenbach writes to communications director Luis Miranda about planting a narrative to the media that Sanders’s “campaign was a mess.”
“Specifically, [Wasserman Schultz] had to call Bernie directly in order to get the campaign to do things because they'd either ignored or forgotten to something critical,” he wrote.
“It's not a DNC conspiracy, it's because they never had their act together,” Paustenbach concluded.
In another email from early May, DNC CFO Brad Marshall appears to write about a plan to question Sanders’s religion.
The email does not name the Vermont senator, but it talks about a man of “Jewish heritage” Marshall believes to be an atheist. It makes reference to voters in Kentucky and West Virginia, two states that were holding upcoming primary elections.
“It might may no difference, but for KY and WVA can we get someone to ask his belief. Does he believe in a God. He had skated on saying he has a Jewish heritage. I think I read he is an atheist. This could make several points difference with my peeps. My Southern Baptist peeps would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist,” the email says.
Marshall did not respond to a request for comment. But he did tell The Intercept, which first noticed the email, “I do not recall this. I can say it would not have been Sanders. It would probably be about a surrogate.”
Wasserman Schultz wrote in May that Sanders "isn't going to be president" and in April that he “has no understanding of” the Democratic Party.
Emails from Wasserman Schultz pertaining to Sanders show a frustration with his campaign's claims of DNC bias and with media reports focused on Sanders's battles with the committee.
Wasserman Schultz sent an email to NBC anchor Chuck Todd with the subject line "Chuck, this must stop," and set up a time for the two to talk about MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” co-host Mika Brzezinski calling on Wasserman Schultz to step down.
In another email chain, Miranda said Brzezinski was willing to talk with Wasserman Schultz.
"She's already served as a judge and jury without even bothering to talk to me. Not sure why I should trust having a conversation with her would make any difference. Or that she even matters, to be frank," Wasserman Schultz wrote back after a brief exchange.
In response to a New York Times story about Sanders's defiance in the wake May's unruly Democratic state convention in Nevada, Wasserman Schultz wrote: "Every time they get caught doing something wrong, they use the tactic of blaming me. Not working this time."
Twitter users erupt: #DNCLeaks disappears from trending news as WikiLeaks emails released
And here's a linkdump to some of the more interesting emails that's being shared around:Conservative Twitter users erupted on Friday after the social media platform torpedoed #DNCLeaks from its trending-news feed after Wikileaks released 20,000 emails by Democratic National Committee staff members.
Embarrassing emails sent and received by DNC members had enough momentum to propel the story to Twitter’s top “trending” news feed on Friday afternoon. The #DNCLeaks entry vanished in the evening, but returned 20 minutes later after users cried foul.
The story had 250,000 tweets at the time it was pulled. The Washington Examiner then aggregated the stream of angry feedback by conservatives.
“Don’t normally tweet political things, but why would @twitter pull the #DNCleaks from trending at #1. Sounds like censorship to me,” one user wrote.
“Twitter is still trying to censor this trend! Now #DNCleak is trending instead of original #DNCLeaks! Keep talking guys, expose corruption,” added another.
“.@Twitters @google actions tonight by trying to stop @wikileaks #DNCLeaks #DNCLeak is a prime reason We need MONEY out of POLITICS,” said a third person.
One of the revelations of WikiLeaks’ latest batch of emails shows the DNCactively worked against Sen. Bernard Sanders during the party’s presidential primary.
“It might [make] no difference, but for KY and WVA can we get someone to ask his belief. Does he believe in a God. He had skated on saying he has a Jewish heritage,” DNC Chief Financial Officer Brad Marshall said in one email sent to DNC officials. “I think I read he is an atheist. This could make several points difference with my peeps. My Southern Baptist peeps would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist.”
The #DNCLeaks row for Twitter came just two days after Breitbart technology editor Milo Yiannopoulos accused the company of “a systemic campaign against conservative and libertarian points of view.” The pundit received a lifetime ban from the company on Tuesday after some of his followers sent racist messages to “Ghostbusters” star Leslie Jones.
“If at first you don’t succeed (because your work is terrible) play the victim. Everyone gets hate mail,” Mr. Yiannopoulos tweeted Monday before his account was frozen.
Regarding Trump
DNC's Trump narrative https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/1041
"The digital internet team is continuing the push to show people how dangerous Trump is." https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/10744
They discussed making a Craigslist posts on fake Trump jobs talking about women needing to be hot for the job and "maintain hotness" https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/12803
Regarding Bernie
Want to know why Morning Joe suddenly did a 180? DWS to Chuck Todd. Topic is about them calling for DWS to step down. "This must stop." https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/10945
"Hey Josh, since the Sanders camp keeps pushing stories about the money laundering, we’re prepping a Medium post from either our CFO or our CEO we want to run by you. It will sharply state that the criticisms are wrong, etc.. basically our talking points in a Medium post format with some extra detail." https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/4091
"Making a Bernie narrative" https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/11056
On the Kentucky recount https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/5773
On debating Bernie in California https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/12440
"If she outperforms this polling, the Bernie camp will go nuts and allege misconduct. They'll probably complain regardless, actually." https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/13098
"missed this... Sanders complaining about underfunded state parties, LOL". https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/6530
DWS private email saying Bernie's idea to change DNC is silly and won't be president https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/9999
DNC and Hillary moles inside the Bernie campaign https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/4776
Trying to get someone to ask about religion at one of Bernie's events. Trying to get him to say he's Atheist https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/11508
DNC flagging Bernie Democrats or things that threaten HRC. https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/6191
DWS on Bernie staying in the race in April: "Spoken like someone who has never been a member of the Democratic Party and has no understanding of what to do" https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/5477)
Calling someone a Bernie Bro for wanting to interview DWS about money laundering, which they call "a shit topic". Asks for an interview next week on another topic. https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/13319
Media Collaboration
"I think the best reporter to give the news to ahead of time is Greg Sargent at the Washington Post. But, the specific reporter is not as important as getting it to an outlet before the news breaks so we can help control the narrative on the front" https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/11242
CNN collaboration https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/4077
This one indicates a CNN political correspondent and PR strategist getting talking points into an article written by Steve Benen of MSNBC https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/11712
More media collusion (Politico) "Vogel gave me his story ahead of time/before it goes to his editors as long as I didn't share it. Let me know if you see anything that's missing and I'll push back." https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/10808
Democrat Chair DWS called Pres of MSNBC Phil Griffin to stop @Morning_Joe being so sympathetic to Sanders https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/13718
Jake Tapper responds to collaboration: https://sli.mg/rOlZ6y
Planting stories in the Washington Post https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/8157
DNC wanting to promote pro-Hillary news during primary, discussion of "quietly sharing". https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/8744
GENERAL
"I hate these people so much" - DNC Chief of Finance. https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/18430
Asking to commit FEC violation https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/25
MONEY LAUNDERING. From Weaver. https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/6230
More on laundering https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/6697
DNC calling O'Malley a joke. https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/13711
"-- Last night, Hillary attended two high-dollar fundraisers in New York City. The first, from 6:15 p.m. to 7:45 p.m., was at the home of Maureen White and Steven Rattner. Approximately 15 attendees contributed $100,000+ to attend. Then, from 8:15 p.m. to 9:45 p.m., she went to the home of Lynn Forester de Rothschild. Another 15 people ponied up more than 100K to attend." https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/1238
Money from DNC donation funneled to Clinton campaign https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/6697
Correct the Record's executive director https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/4690
"less than 1 percent of the $61 million raised by that effort has stayed in the state parties' coffers, according to a POLITICO analysis of the latest Federal Election Commission filing" https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/1724
To meet Clinton at the convention is $1.7 million to $300k https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/fileid/22280/9807
Asking Burger King to form a PAC https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/999
Targeting Wall Street donors. https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/998 More info: "One big Clinton donor on Wall Street said that Bush donors are prime targets and that 'we're a big tent.' Potential sources of support for Clinton could include people like Jack Oliver, who also served as a top fundraiser for Jeb Bush. Both Johnson and Oliver did not respond to requests for comment.The race for Wall Street cash will be intense."
Trading favors with superdelegates. https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/234
DNC members "If he's a good gay, he'll love that this pic is with Kathy griffin." https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/1042
Huge list of donors https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/fileid/20749/9434
Personal note: honestly this feels like browsing a bunch of high school girls' emails. "Is there a fuck you emoji", "bahahaha", someone links to round of applause by lady gaga.
Tons of media manipulation.
Also, kinda feel bad for Bernie supporters now. The system, like trump mentioned in his speech, was against you completely.
Доверяй, но проверяй
"Ugh. I hate agreeing with Zontargs." -- Alyrium Denryle
"What you are is abject human trash who is very good at dodging actual rule violations while still being human trash." -- Alyrium Denryle
iustitia socialis delenda est
"Ugh. I hate agreeing with Zontargs." -- Alyrium Denryle
"What you are is abject human trash who is very good at dodging actual rule violations while still being human trash." -- Alyrium Denryle
iustitia socialis delenda est
- Terralthra
- Requiescat in Pace
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- Joined: 2007-10-05 09:55pm
- Location: San Francisco, California, United States
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Way to go WikiLeaks, you helped dox bunches of innocents, including social security numbers and addresses, of complete innocents with a tertiary involvement in the DNC. Heroes.
- The Romulan Republic
- Emperor's Hand
- Posts: 21559
- Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Yeah, this reminder of DNC corruption, coming right after Bernie's endorsement of Clinton, right before the convention, and right on top of a VP pick that's sure to anger progressives, is really bad timing for Clinton.
One wonders if Wikileaks timed it deliberately to sabotage her campaign.
One wonders if Wikileaks timed it deliberately to sabotage her campaign.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
I've been seeing news of this floating around on places like huffpost and twitter and stuff. A lot of Bernie Bros that I follow aren't happy with it. I can't imagine that it will do Hillary any good, and it will only reinforce the existing narrative that she and those she associates with are crooked.
The attention and thought has been on the RNC though, so there haven't been any big headlines or buzz about this just yet.
The attention and thought has been on the RNC though, so there haven't been any big headlines or buzz about this just yet.
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Next week is the Democrat news week. Which means that by and large they get to field all positive questions and HAVE TO field all negative questions. With the timing of this leak it'll be interesting.Prannon wrote:I've been seeing news of this floating around on places like huffpost and twitter and stuff. A lot of Bernie Bros that I follow aren't happy with it. I can't imagine that it will do Hillary any good, and it will only reinforce the existing narrative that she and those she associates with are crooked.
The attention and thought has been on the RNC though, so there haven't been any big headlines or buzz about this just yet.
- cosmicalstorm
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1642
- Joined: 2008-02-14 09:35am
Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)
Trumps speech was very dark. If this was the 90's that kind of media-coordination would have killed his odds.