General Police Abuse Thread

[Joun_Lord]

So to believe their story they fired at a guy holding a truck who they were told was holding a truck and missed by about foot striking the other guy in the leg with the one round out of 3 that even hit. That isn't really much better then the initial story of them blasting a guy with his hands up, atleast in the initial story the cop involved wasn't shooting like people believe stormtroopers shoot.

I think its stupid they fired at all even if the autistic dude had a gun. Though I have a real problem with the US police SOP of firing at anyone armed with a firearm, anyone who has a firearm on their person, and anyone who looks like they are holding something vaguely gun shaped. Right or wrong firearms are legal in the US and blasting anyone holding one or a Wii-mote or toy truck seems borderline if not outright criminal.

Someone should be shot only as a last resort, only to preserve the life of someone. If they are an imminent danger then they need popped but if not they don't. And I know there can be some confusion of whether or not someone is a danger but certainly some guy armed with a scary assault truck isn't a threat.

[General Zod]

In other news, Austin police body-slam a black teacher while arresting her for "speeding".

But hey, we don't have any real problems with race, right?

[Kamakazie Sith]

I think its stupid they fired at all even if the autistic dude had a gun. Though I have a real problem with the US police SOP of firing at anyone armed with a firearm, anyone who has a firearm on their person, and anyone who looks like they are holding something vaguely gun shaped. Right or wrong firearms are legal in the US and blasting anyone holding one or a Wii-mote or toy truck seems borderline if not outright criminal.

I agree with you regarding this case. However...If we had the policy you're speaking of then most the officers that work in my department, including me, would have shot someone. It'd be nice if you guys didn't resort to exaggeration at every step in these discussions because they simply do not reflect reality. Even if we were very generous to you statement and considered all shootings unjustified of people armed with firearms that weren't actively attacking someone, people armed with toy weapons, and the unarmed that would account for just 35% of all shootings.

Someone should be shot only as a last resort, only to preserve the life of someone. If they are an imminent danger then they need popped but if not they don't. And I know there can be some confusion of whether or not someone is a danger but certainly some guy armed with a scary assault truck isn't a threat.

Agreed.

[Kamakazie Sith]

In other news, Austin police body-slam a black teacher while arresting her for "speeding".

But hey, we don't have any real problems with race, right?

First this is an issue with race. Those comments that officer later makes are disgusting.

The other part of this is a failure to educate the public. You're refusal to follow instructions on a traffic stop can result in your arrest for obstruction. The courts have given the police the authority to control a traffic stop. If you're ordered out of the car you must comply - see Pennsylvania vs. Mimms. Now, my guess is he intended on either handcuffing her and detaining her until the ticket was completed or arresting her for obstruction for the reason I just listed.

Here's the full video - [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3sMpfm59hc[/youtube]

We see her refuse to follow instructions at two different instances during this stop. These are simple instructions that are not difficult to follow. That being said the officer should have took a more educational approach and told her of the consequences for continuing to not follow instructions. I don't think there was a need to escalate the use of force so quickly. I think he could have kept her contained in the car until help arrived so such a high level of force wouldn't be necessary after all at this point it is just speeding and obstruction.

[General Zod]

She was allegedly pulled over for speeding. For all we know he pulled her over for driving while black considering his remarks.

[Kamakazie Sith]

She was allegedly pulled over for speeding. For all we know he pulled her over for driving while black considering his remarks.

You might be right but I was answering what seemed to be your belief she was arrested for speeding because she wasn't arrested for speeding. Also, your comment makes me think you believe that you can't be arrested for speeding. You can be arrested for speeding under certain circumstances for example in some jurisdictions if you refuse to sign the ticket they are required to arrest you and bring you before a magistrate since your signature is your promise to appear to take care of the ticket whether that be by contesting it or accepting the consequences and the charging document would read "speeding".

[General Zod]

She was allegedly pulled over for speeding. For all we know he pulled her over for driving while black considering his remarks.

You might be right but I was answering what seemed to be your belief she was arrested for speeding because she wasn't arrested for speeding. Also, your comment makes me think you believe that you can't be arrested for speeding. You can be arrested for speeding under certain circumstances for example in some jurisdictions if you refuse to sign the ticket they are required to arrest you and bring you before a magistrate since your signature is your promise to appear to take care of the ticket whether that be by contesting it or accepting the consequences and the charging document would read "speeding".

Exactly what part of the woman's actions justified the officer grabbing her and trying to pull her out of the car? He immediately grabbed her as soon as he told her to stand up.

[Kamakazie Sith]

She was allegedly pulled over for speeding. For all we know he pulled her over for driving while black considering his remarks.

You might be right but I was answering what seemed to be your belief she was arrested for speeding because she wasn't arrested for speeding. Also, your comment makes me think you believe that you can't be arrested for speeding. You can be arrested for speeding under certain circumstances for example in some jurisdictions if you refuse to sign the ticket they are required to arrest you and bring you before a magistrate since your signature is your promise to appear to take care of the ticket whether that be by contesting it or accepting the consequences and the charging document would read "speeding".

Exactly what part of the woman's actions justified the officer grabbing her and trying to pull her out of the car? He immediately grabbed her as soon as he told her to stand up.

Please read the last paragraph in my first response to you. What is it with you guys these discussion seem to drastically lower IQs of certain people.

[General Zod]

You might be right but I was answering what seemed to be your belief she was arrested for speeding because she wasn't arrested for speeding. Also, your comment makes me think you believe that you can't be arrested for speeding. You can be arrested for speeding under certain circumstances for example in some jurisdictions if you refuse to sign the ticket they are required to arrest you and bring you before a magistrate since your signature is your promise to appear to take care of the ticket whether that be by contesting it or accepting the consequences and the charging document would read "speeding".

Exactly what part of the woman's actions justified the officer grabbing her and trying to pull her out of the car? He immediately grabbed her as soon as he told her to stand up.

Please read the last paragraph in my first response to you. What is it with you guys these discussion seem to drastically lower IQs of certain people.

Or you could just ignore the problem of yet another cop being needlessly violent and creating excuses to assault the woman.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Exactly what part of the woman's actions justified the officer grabbing her and trying to pull her out of the car? He immediately grabbed her as soon as he told her to stand up.

Please read the last paragraph in my first response to you. What is it with you guys these discussion seem to drastically lower IQs of certain people.

Or you could just ignore the problem of yet another cop being needlessly violent and creating excuses to assault the woman.

What? Are you having a stroke?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Zod, burn strawmen somewhere else.

[Dominus Atheos]

It's not necessarily a fair comparison, but I just want to contrast the consequences in this case with the Eric Garner case:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/w ... -1.2731489

Three Florida Walmart employees who detained man shoplifting DVDs charged with manslaughter after he dies

...

Wisham died from suffocation after he was forced into a position where he could not breathe, Bay News 9 reported.

Eric Garner died from suffocation after several police officers tackled him for the crime of selling cigarettes without paying taxes on them.

(also, Wisham had 15 broken ribs, but that may have been a result of CPR after he stopped breathing.)

[Flagg]

Honestly, this is a direct result of Wal-Mart being cheap assholes who have no real loss prevention but instead rely on regular employees to provide security. Trained security officers would know that you can't pull the downright clownshoes bullshit these 3 employees did. He didn't run with any merchandise (and even if he had there's a fine line) so there was no reason for them to pursue, let alone put their hands on him. But it's hard to lay the blame fully on these employees because I bet dollars to donuts they don't know shit about security.

[RogueIce]

Well, the obvious difference is that I'm pretty sure none of those Wal-Mart employees were even so much as licensed security guards (only one was even a loss prevention associate, and I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't require a Class D license for that) so the rules about restraining a fleeing individual are generally going to be very different for random Joe Citizen than they are a licensed security guard, much less an actual law enforcement officer.

So yes, it's not a fair comparison nor even an especially relevant one, TBH. People don't seem to like it for some reason, but there are different rules for police than regular people. For a simple example, try pulling someone over for speeding and see how well that works out for you. (please don't because it'd be illegal)

[Gaidin]

Bringing up the very conspicuous point of Wal-Mart having no trained people to do what these people ended up doing, depending on Wal-Mart's policies, how on the hook could they be here?

[Ralin]

I'm not a lawyer, but I suspect the answer is "not at all" if they can prove the employees were told not to pursue/physically seize suspected shoplifters during orientation.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Well, the obvious difference is that I'm pretty sure none of those Wal-Mart employees were even so much as licensed security guards (only one was even a loss prevention associate, and I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't require a Class D license for that) so the rules about restraining a fleeing individual are generally going to be very different for random Joe Citizen than they are a licensed security guard, much less an actual law enforcement officer.

So yes, it's not a fair comparison nor even an especially relevant one, TBH. People don't seem to like it for some reason, but there are different rules for police than regular people. For a simple example, try pulling someone over for speeding and see how well that works out for you. (please don't because it'd be illegal)

Well obviously it's a bad comparison. Police are immediately given benefit of the doubt by John Q. Public. If a cop makes a bullshit arrest, the cop will not get punished. Even if a wrongful arrest lawsuit takes place and succeeds, the cop won't see any real punishment. The money comes from public coffers. A cop that abuses their position is far too often able to get off with a paid vacation while they investigate, and then nothing comes of it. Unpaid suspensions would be undesirable since there will be instances where wrongdoing did not actually occur. But if wrongdoing did take place the cop should then face actual punishment.

Police need to have a greater amount of authority than Joe Schmoe. But at the same time, the bar should be a hell of a lot higher because police are in a position of power.

[Flagg]

Bringing up the very conspicuous point of Wal-Mart having no trained people to do what these people ended up doing, depending on Wal-Mart's policies, how on the hook could they be here?

Like Ralin said, it depends on what Wal-Mart's policies are, but to differ a bit, it also depends on what it's practices are. For instance, if they don't enforce a no pursuit policy, or actively encourage employees for preventing loss on the part of shoplifters then they would probably be just as fucked, though it may not be corporate on the hook, but rather that individual store.

I can tell you as a trained (circa 2006) and (long expired) card carrying class D security officer, theft of $400 constitutes a felony, therefore a citizens arrest (what these dipshits attempted) can be made with a reasonable use of force. Dumb motherfucker trying to cart-jack (what I hope to Christ were blu-rays, otherwise...) $400 in merchandise, who no longer had possession of said merchandise got killt, so I think "reasonable use of force" is best decided by judge or jury.

[Ralin]

I went through Walmart New Employees Orientation not long ago. Pretty sure that the video on loss prevention said something like "Don't physically intervene, just stand nearby and keep an eye on the potential shoplifter while you or someone else alerts management and/or a loss prevention specialist."

Frankly, they seemed a lot more concerned about impressing on us employees that they absolutely would catch and prosecute us if we stole from the store, regardless of the amount. These guys know their priorities.

[Elheru Aran]

Similar training happened at my work and at my wife's when she went into retail for a short time a few years ago. I think it's part of American retail culture that employees, unless specially designated for the purpose, don't do anything confrontational with customers, for fear of being sued.

[Crazedwraith]

Sadly America does not have a monopoly on this.

Former footballer Dalian Atkinson has died after being shot with a Taser by police at his father's house.
Police said the weapon was deployed at about 01:30 BST in Telford, Shropshire after officers were called to a report of concern for a man's safety.
A neighbour described seeing the former Aston Villa star, 48, being Tasered being after "stumbling towards" police.
Mr Atkinson went into cardiac arrest on his way to hospital, where he was pronounced dead at about 03:00.
Paula Quinn, who lives in a first-floor flat near the Atkinson property in Trench, said: "They were shouting and kicking so much all I could hear were the boots hitting him.
"And then the officer who released the Taser stepped back while the other officer still continued to kick and then I could hear him shout to the other officer that was still kicking, 'Back off, back off, back off.'
"And then the officer with the Taser asked the gentleman to put his hands behind his back and did so probably two or three times and reactivated the Taser another four or five times after that. "
Paramedics said Mr Atkinson went into cardiac arrest on his way to hospital.
The death has been referred to the police watchdog, the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), which said it was investigating police contact with Mr Atkinson before his death, as well as "the level and type of force used".
His nephew, Fabian Atkinson, said the former footballer was having dialysis treatment for kidney problems: "And obviously that's inevitably why his heart was weaker.
"They need to, as soon as they deploy a Taser, they need to deploy an ambulance. As soon as, it should be mandatory.
"Because, how do they know, unnaturally putting volts through a body, how do they know they're going to survive that, eventually, in the long run, that they're not going to need any medical attention?"

Ms Quinn earlier told the Shropshire Star that Mr Atkinson had "seemed a bit, perhaps, inebriated", adding: "As the Taser hit him in the stomach he just went 'doof', down like a lead balloon."
Mr Atkinson is best remembered for scoring the Match of the Day goal of the season in the 1992-93 campaign - the inaugural Premier League season. Memorably, the Villa star dribbled the ball from inside his own half before chipping the Wimbledon keeper from the edge of the area.
'On his day he was unplayable'

Ipswich Town, where the footballer started his career, tweeted his death was "terribly sad news".
Aston Villa, for whom the striker scored in the club's 3-1 defeat of Manchester United in the 1994 League Cup final, tweeted: "RIP Dalian Atkinson. You'll never be forgotten!"
Villa legend Paul McGrath also tweeted his reaction, describing his former team-mate as a "huge part of the Villa family", while former Villa winger Tony Daley described it as "devastating news".
Former manager at Villa and Sheffield Wednesday Ron Atkinson said: "He was popular in the dressing room, had terrific ability and did it in the big games.

West Midlands Ambulance Service crews called by West Mercia Police arrived to find a man had been Tasered.
"As he was being conveyed to Princess Royal Hospital, his condition deteriorated and he went into cardiac arrest," a spokesman said.
"Despite the efforts of the crew and hospital staff, it was not possible to save him and he was confirmed dead at hospital, shortly after arrival."

Neighbours Tina and Matthew Bothwell told BBC News their son had heard "a bang and shouting" outside on Sunday night but thought nothing of it.
"We woke up just before seven, and saw all the police outside and police just said it's all cordoned off," Mr Bothwell said.
Ms Bothwell said they had been told "someone had been Tasered and passed away".
Mr Bothwell, 43, said the former striker was a popular visitor to the neighbourhood.
He said: "Every time he would come he would have crowds around him. It's a close-knit community.
"I just can't bear to think what his family are going through."

In a statement, the IPCC said "a full and thorough investigation" was taking place.
"At this stage the IPCC is aware a Taser was used on the man before he became ill," it said.
The IPCC also said that since releasing its Taser report covering 2004-2013, it was aware of two inquest verdicts that have found police use of Taser played a significant or material part in a death.
It added that it was already investigating four deaths before which a Taser was discharged.
Police and Crime Commissioner for the West Mercia force John Campion said his thoughts were with the former footballer's family.
He added: "It is an important part of my role to hold the police to account.
"I want to be absolutely clear and reassure our communities that I will be doing that fairly and proportionately with regard to this incident once the full facts are available."

At least an investigation is being promised.

Just the other day we were hearing about how no-one wants to be an armed officer because of the investigations that happen when they shoot someone...

[Flagg]

I went through Walmart New Employees Orientation not long ago. Pretty sure that the video on loss prevention said something like "Don't physically intervene, just stand nearby and keep an eye on the potential shoplifter while you or someone else alerts management and/or a loss prevention specialist."

Frankly, they seemed a lot more concerned about impressing on us employees that they absolutely would catch and prosecute us if we stole from the store, regardless of the amount. These guys know their priorities.

They do, actually. When I went through my security licensing training they impressed upon us that while 75% (IIRC, it may be higher) of theft from stores is by employees, if we were hired by a retail company directly (which hilariously means you don't even need the class d license) it would be unwise to report employee theft without substantial evidence as store managers would rather fire one security guard "causing a ruckus" than 15 employees regularly stealing from them as it makes management look bad for hiring and keeping employees that steal when they can just blame shoplifters. Seriously.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

I went through Walmart New Employees Orientation not long ago. Pretty sure that the video on loss prevention said something like "Don't physically intervene, just stand nearby and keep an eye on the potential shoplifter while you or someone else alerts management and/or a loss prevention specialist."

That's exactly what the loss-prevention CBL says. You're to keep the potential shoplifter in sight(discreetly), until either management or LP(Asset Protection, now)has been alerted. Also, the potential shoplifter has to pass the last point of sale, before he can be apprehended.

As a cart pusher, I helped run down a lot of shoplifters. Especially during the holidays.

Frankly, they seemed a lot more concerned about impressing on us employees that they absolutely would catch and prosecute us if we stole from the store, regardless of the amount. These guys know their priorities.

Even Walmart managers knew that when you pay your employees crap, and treat your employees like crap, they're not exactly going to be motivated toward not stealing from a bunch of thieves.

[Vendetta]

Latest threatening action which requires immediate deadly force to protect police officers:

Sitting and eating your dinner.

[RogueIce]

Latest threatening action which requires immediate deadly force to protect police officers:

Sitting and eating your dinner.

Page not found?