The 2016 US Election (Part III)

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Locked
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Flagg »

Mr Bean wrote:Well I get back and Knife already handled my discussion so I move on this.
Flagg wrote:Yeah, that's what's kind of unusual. I mean there are usually racist and sexist dogwhistles (see 2000 SC where a flyer went around saying John McCain's adopted daughter of Indian descent was a secret biracial love child), but Trump's out there with a motherfucking bullhorn. I'm not saying he can tack to the middle successfully, I just wonder if he'll try.
There are several schools of thought on Trump.

1. He never planned on winning
The Trump campaign was nothing more than a vanity project/an effort to raise Trump's visibility and thus profitability so his entire goal is to be memorable.

2. No one can tell him no
The Trump campaign is going so "well" because no one can rein in Trump, a true lose cannon nominee

3. It's all about the turnout stupid
It's an accepted fact that less than 50% of American bothers to show up for elections. If Trump can raise turnout by 20% in his favor he can sweep the nation never mind this has never been done before. 50%-60% of Registered voters voting is the American average ceiling

4.It was all a cunning ruse!
Yes Virginia, Trump really is a Clinton conspiracy cooked up between Bill and Trump last year, not only did he not plan on winning he was trying to actively destroy the GOP.
#4 Is just too diabolically Clinton not to be true. Clearly Hillary held a gun to Trumps head just like she did Vince Foster!

But no, it's a combination of 1 and 2, IMO.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
maraxus2
Padawan Learner
Posts: 340
Joined: 2016-04-11 02:14am
Location: Yay Area

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by maraxus2 »

Mr Bean wrote:There are several schools of thought on Trump.

1. He never planned on winning
The Trump campaign was nothing more than a vanity project/an effort to raise Trump's visibility and thus profitability so his entire goal is to be memorable.
This seems the most likely TBH. Trump is not behaving like a candidate who is interested in winning the election.
2. No one can tell him no
The Trump campaign is going so "well" because no one can rein in Trump, a true lose cannon nominee
Someone must be able to rein him in. He didn't pick Moon Unit Gingrich for Veep, even though he clearly wanted to.
3. It's all about the turnout stupid
It's an accepted fact that less than 50% of American bothers to show up for elections. If Trump can raise turnout by 20% in his favor he can sweep the nation never mind this has never been done before. 50%-60% of Registered voters voting is the American average ceiling
:lol: That's never going to happen. Trump would spend his money/time better if he had Paul Manafort try to turn lead into gold, rather than trying to pump up turnout. It would also help if he had an active campaign, which he doesn't.
4.It was all a cunning ruse!
Yes Virginia, Trump really is a Clinton conspiracy cooked up between Bill and Trump last year, not only did he not plan on winning he was trying to actively destroy the GOP.
I want this to be true in the worst way.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13073
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Elheru Aran »

Flagg wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Flagg wrote:I wonder if Trump will do the usual tack to the middle or if he'll hold firm to his douchey ways. For once I can foresee a major party nominee actually continue pandering to the white male base only. If he does I wonder what the spread will be. I can see Clinton actually beating him silly with a 15 point lead in the popular vote. I may dislike her, but she's got the chops to get it done.
I dont think he actually can swing middle. He cannot unsay all the rancid things he has said, so if confronted with it (and he will be), he basically has to admit to duping the rubes that are american people, and that never goes over well.
Yeah, that's what's kind of unusual. I mean there are usually racist and sexist dogwhistles (see 2000 SC where a flyer went around saying John McCain's adopted daughter of Indian descent was a secret biracial love child), but Trump's out there with a motherfucking bullhorn. I'm not saying he can tack to the middle successfully, I just wonder if he'll try.
This is an interesting situation, frankly.

Previously, the really slimy stuff was usually from boosters trying to help their campaign, people who weren't actually officially members of the This Guy for President campaign but who wanted to help and who thought 'help' meant 'tell nasty stuff about the other guy and if it's actually true, all the better'. Hence lovely stuff like John McCain's adopted daughter, Kenyan Atheist Commie Muslim Socialist Homo Pothead Obama, Tranny Michelle, Swift Boat Veterans against John Kerry or whatever it was... the actual campaign itself can stand back and go 'whoa, now, that's some strong stuff to be saying about the other guy. But you know what that's all about, right, wink-wink nudge-nudge say no more, what?'

But now the guy saying the abominable shit is the one running for President. Not some vaguely anonymous booster organization, not fringe lunatics, not that one guy at the street corner holding up a placard saying that The Other Guy will destroy the country... the fucking Republican nominee is the guy acting like a three-year-old who just figured out how to access his mom's Twitter account and is ruling the damn household while the neighbors look on in appalled fascination.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.
User avatar
Mr Bean
Lord of Irony
Posts: 22455
Joined: 2002-07-04 08:36am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Mr Bean »

Flagg wrote:
Mr Bean wrote:Well I get back and Knife already handled my discussion so I move on this.

4.It was all a cunning ruse!
Yes Virginia, Trump really is a Clinton conspiracy cooked up between Bill and Trump last year, not only did he not plan on winning he was trying to actively destroy the GOP.
#4 Is just too diabolically Clinton not to be true. Clearly Hillary held a gun to Trumps head just like she did Vince Foster!
No no you mistake me, this is clearly a Trading Places situation except the Duke Brothers rather than hiring Eddie Murphy agree that Mortimer (Trump) will run for President against Randolph's(Bill) wife.

If this were true then Bill already owes Trump a dollar and the two of them are just seeing how deep the rabbit hole goes in Trump's campaign.

"A cult is a religion with no political power." -Tom Wolfe
Pardon me for sounding like a dick, but I'm playing the tiniest violin in the world right now-Dalton
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Frankly, I find myself not caring so much weather Bernie is a sincere Democrat or Independent using the Democrats to advance his agenda. Certainly, I want him to act with integrity, but its not as if he broke the law, right? And the Democratic Party did things just as sleazy and worse against him. Moreover, he represents what the Democratic Party should be in many respects, and is pulling the party in the right direction, which is also the direction they need to go to gain the support of much of the younger generations. He is a net gain for the party in my opinion, and we should be grateful to have him on our side, whatever his ultimate motivations. There are far more important things than weather you've always had a D after your name.

Anyway, taking a break from focussing on the Presidential election...

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot ... nders-help
Backers of ColoradoCare — the state ballot initiative that would establish universal health care in Colorado — think they have the perfect job for former presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders.

With the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia behind him, Sanders "comes to Colorado and campaigns for single-payer — and we win," says T.R. Reid, one of the architects of ColoradoCare. The initiative aims to provide every resident of Colorado with affordable health insurance. Sanders made universal coverage one of the cornerstones of his presidential bid.

The proposal comes with a $38 billion annual price tag — to be paid by a tax on workers and businesses. The program would eliminate the need for insurance premiums and deductibles, and proponents claim it would save the state and individuals a lot of money.

Reid says the backers of ColoradoCare have pitched Sanders' team, hoping he will campaign on behalf of the measure that will come before voters in November.

Sanders has already championed the issue in the state — he pushed for a single-payer system during his Democratic primary campaign in Colorado. It was one of his key health care positions, and it got thousands of his supporters cheering at an event in Denver in February.

"I believe that health care is a right, not privilege," Sanders told cheering crowds.

He also beat that drum during a TV appearance with MSNBC's Rachel Maddow in May. Sanders pointed out that Canada started what would eventually become its nationwide system of universal health care by persuading lawmakers in each province — one province at a time.

"So if you're asking me, do I think if a major state — whether it's Colorado or California or whatever — goes forward and it works well, [will] other states say 'Hey, you know, I got a brother over there in Colorado and he's getting health care, great health care and it's less expensive than the current system,' " Sanders said. "Yeah, I think that is one possibility."

The whole concept of ColoradoCare — or Amendment 69, as it will appear on the ballot — appeals to Andrew Kleiman, a 35-year-old Sanders supporter from Grand Junction.

"I think we're just at such a tipping point," Kleiman says. "The momentum of Bernie's campaign carried over into something like this would be a perfect fit and pretty necessary."

Kleiman says if Sanders actively backed the proposal in Colorado it would help motivate millennials like him to vote.

Reid agrees. "The last poll showed 60 percent of millennials support ColoradoCare," he says. "Those are Bernie people and if he can turn them out to vote, we win."

But a coalition of opponents, including conservatives, insurance firms and business groups, has come out against the initiative, which is expected to draw big money from both sides.

"I don't think the economics of it work out," says Nina Anderson, a small business owner in Grand Junction. She says the proposed program would be too expensive for small businesses and employees.

Colorado has been on the cutting edge of some other big policy changes, like legalizing recreational pot. Anderson says she's not ready for the state to take the lead on a huge government-run health care system, and does not think Sanders should jump in.

"That is the scary part, I think, about being in Colorado and being on the forefront of anything that is attempting to move to socialized care," Anderson says. "You do get everybody with outside interests coming in and playing in your sandbox."

Cody Belzley, who served as senior health policy analyst to former Democratic Gov. Bill Ritter, opposes the proposal and says she's not sure what difference Sanders would make — if he did come.

"It's such a strange political year," Belzley says. "I think it's really hard to know what's going to impact Colorado voters or the outcome of Amendment 69. I think this is a decision to be made by Colorado voters, based on what's going to be best for them and their families."

Colorado voters haven't passed a general tax increase in years. Obamacare cut the state's uninsured rate in half, but many residents still struggle with high premiums and deductibles.

Belzley, who works for a group opposing the amendment, Coloradans for Coloradans, urges voters to look at the details. "I think when folks look at that," she says, "they come to understand this is just too risky a proposal."

Sanders' presence in Colorado could motivate voters on both sides, says Seth Masket, a political science professor at the University of Denver.

"That's kind of the mixed message of initiatives," Masket says. "They can really draw out both sides, depending on how passionate people are on the subject. The key for supporters of this initiative would be to translate passion for Sanders into passion for this initiative. Sanders is probably the best equipped to actually make that case."

A representative from the Sanders campaign, Michael Briggs, says the topic is something that "interests Bernie very much. We don't have a trip scheduled yet, but he has been keeping a close eye on this."

This story is part of NPR's reporting partnership with Colorado Public Radio and Kaiser Health News.
This sounds like a good initiative, and as a Colorado voter I am proud of my state and look forward to supporting it.

Though going back to the Presidential race, this is indeed a good way to get the Bernie people out, and an example of how Bernie and his supporters remain politically relevant.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6078
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by bilateralrope »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Frankly, I find myself not caring so much weather Bernie is a sincere Democrat or Independent using the Democrats to advance his agenda
Did he ever have any other viable methods to advance his agenda ?
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

No. Not really.

Like it or not, there are only two major parties in America, and unfortunately, the way things are going, their might soon just be one (at least until someone inevitably replaces the Republicans).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Knife »

bilateralrope wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Frankly, I find myself not caring so much weather Bernie is a sincere Democrat or Independent using the Democrats to advance his agenda
Did he ever have any other viable methods to advance his agenda ?
This is kind of the key point, Flagg hates fake Democrats (DINO's) but to run for POTUS, you really have to be part of one of the big two.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
bilateralrope
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6078
Joined: 2005-06-25 06:50pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by bilateralrope »

Knife wrote:
bilateralrope wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Frankly, I find myself not caring so much weather Bernie is a sincere Democrat or Independent using the Democrats to advance his agenda
Did he ever have any other viable methods to advance his agenda ?
This is kind of the key point, Flagg hates fake Democrats (DINO's) but to run for POTUS, you really have to be part of one of the big two.
That's what I thought. DINO's and RINO's exist because the only way for them to get the changes they want is to attach themselves to one of the two parties.

I don't like it. But it's a fact of the US political climate and I can't see any politically viable way to change it.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Knife wrote:
bilateralrope wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Frankly, I find myself not caring so much weather Bernie is a sincere Democrat or Independent using the Democrats to advance his agenda
Did he ever have any other viable methods to advance his agenda ?
This is kind of the key point, Flagg hates fake Democrats (DINO's) but to run for POTUS, you really have to be part of one of the big two.

I too despise fake democrats, but generally only because they are the ones who are too bloody right wing. Bernie a leftist fake democrat, and thus I dont hate him. I might accuse him of an attempted hostile takeover of the democratic party, but only because that is the actual term for what he was trying to do. I expect the institution to take a negative view of that (which is why the DNC emails dont bother me), but at same time, what he was trying to do was not necessarily wrong. My disputes with him extend to his douchebag hard core of supporters, and some policy differences were I wont budge (I like GMOs and Nuclear Power. These things are non-negotiable because I view them as being indispensable for a long term positive future for humanity). Hillary is mostly similar on other matters (and is more likely to be politically effective in office), thus I chose her.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Ugg, the nuclear power issue is one of my major sore points with Bernie. I still voted for him, but he is very much in the wrong on that issue.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
maraxus2
Padawan Learner
Posts: 340
Joined: 2016-04-11 02:14am
Location: Yay Area

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by maraxus2 »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Snip Colorado Single-Payer Article
I'm extremely skeptical of this. Vermont tried this a while back and utterly failed, and they don't have the same kind of Redneckistan that Colorado has. Plus, Colorado's always struck me as being a more libertarian Western state than the kind of place that would readily accept a state takeover of the healthcare system.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I doubt its odds of success, but I would point out that public sentiment on this issue may have shifted somewhat since Vermont tried it, and that Bernie won the Colorado primary handily. If a sufficiently high progressive turnout can be motivated, there might be a chance. And if it fails, well, at least it might get Bernie people who would otherwise stay home to the polls. Hopefully they'll cast votes for Clinton while they're their.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

maraxus2 wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:Snip Colorado Single-Payer Article
I'm extremely skeptical of this. Vermont tried this a while back and utterly failed, and they don't have the same kind of Redneckistan that Colorado has. Plus, Colorado's always struck me as being a more libertarian Western state than the kind of place that would readily accept a state takeover of the healthcare system.
It is an odd place. Hippies on the one hand (so many), conservative christians in Colorado Springs, and libertarians. The biggest obstacle is actually technical. They have a constitutional revenue cap so they would need to make it work inside their current budget. They COULD make it work monetarily if not for that.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
maraxus2
Padawan Learner
Posts: 340
Joined: 2016-04-11 02:14am
Location: Yay Area

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by maraxus2 »

The Romulan Republic wrote:I doubt its odds of success, but I would point out that public sentiment on this issue may have shifted somewhat since Vermont tried it, and that Bernie won the Colorado primary handily. If a sufficiently high progressive turnout can be motivated, there might be a chance. And if it fails, well, at least it might get Bernie people who would otherwise stay home to the polls. Hopefully they'll cast votes for Clinton while they're their.
Right, but it's shifting in the opposite direction from the SPH advocate's perspective. “There ultimately has to be so much pressure that it’s like a volcano goes off and it happens, and that pressure has to be deep and wide in the voting public,” said the guy in charge of Single Payer out here in California. That pressure is lessening with Obamacare being broadly successful at what it aims to do; insure more people and bend the cost curve downward. And people like their insurance too, which makes SPH even more difficult. Plus, the election results were from a caucus, not a primary, and thus not terribly representative of the state as a whole.

Do think that last part is valid though.
Alyrium Denryle wrote:It is an odd place. Hippies on the one hand (so many), conservative christians in Colorado Springs, and libertarians. The biggest obstacle is actually technical. They have a constitutional revenue cap so they would need to make it work inside their current budget. They COULD make it work monetarily if not for that.
Yeah, TABOR's kind of an impassible obstacle for them. That and the fact that they have a Republican State Senate, albeit by a single vote and they'll probably get owned in the elections this year.

I wonder if the states would be better off trying a public option, rather than going feet-first into SPH. Or some significant subsidy to the exchange plans/state Medicaid subsidy. Anyway, it'd be good for the Blue states to experiment with, especially since we'd get to point and laugh at Kansas and Oklahoma if it worked - more than we already do anyway.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I would have thought that the success of Obamacare (relatively speaking) might have made further health care reform an easier sell- we passed health care reform and America didn't turn into a dictatorship with death panels, health care costs didn't skyrocket, and it wasn't an abject failure. You'd think that would ease the fears of any fence sitters on the subject of single-payer.

But if not, well, it comes down to turn out. Can we motivate high progressive turnout, and will they also vote for Clinton while they're voting for single-payer?
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Terralthra
Requiescat in Pace
Posts: 4741
Joined: 2007-10-05 09:55pm
Location: San Francisco, California, United States

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Terralthra »

So, Donald Trump received his first classified briefing this week, and then this happened:
The Guardian wrote:In his first campaign stop after Hillary Clinton formally accepted the Democratic nomination, Trump went on a greatest hits tour, revisiting the headlines of 2015.

The Republican nominee, during an event in Colorado Springs, re-litigated controversies involving Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly, his mockery of a reporter with a disability and his false claim that Muslims celebrated September 11.

Trump defended his discredited statement that thousands of Muslims in Jersey City celebrated the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center by dancing in the streets. He also insisted he did not deride Serge Kovaleski, a reporter at the New York Times who disputed his claims, in a November campaign stop. “I didn’t know he was disabled. I started imitating somebody that was groveling,” said Trump on Friday. Kovaleski has arthrogryposis, a congenital condition that affects joint movement.

The Republican nominee insisted he would never mock people with disabilities. Trump’s defense was that he spends millions of dollars to make his buildings compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act as well as that he has “a good heart” and is “a smart person”.

Trump also insisted yet again that he did not make a menstruation reference when he said Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly had “had blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever” while questioning him during a debate in August 2015. He insisted he meant “ears” or “nose” in his comments, which led to him being uninvited from the RedState Gathering, a major conservative confab.

The Republican nominee did target Clinton as well. He said to a crowd chanting “lock her up” about the former Secretary of State: “I am starting to agree with you.” Trump went on to indicate that he would step up his attacks against his opponent.

“I don’t have to be so nice anymore, I’m taking the gloves off,” Trump said. “Just remember this, Trump is going to be no more Mr Nice Guy.” Trump has already dubbed Clinton “crooked Hillary” and repeatedly used the phrase on the campaign trail in recent months.

The Republican nominee also complained about Nato and US military aid to overseas allies. In particular, Trump expressed his discontent that “we pay rent for our base to Saudi Arabia”. The US closed its main military base in Saudi Arabia, Prince Sultan Air Base, in 2003.

Trump also repeatedly bashed the local fire marshal, whom Trump jokingly suggested was “probably a Democrat” for not letting more people into the event. He also promised voters that if second world war general George Patton was still alive, he would not use email.

Before the rally, in an interview with a local news station, Trump also contradicted Republican policy on fracking by coming out in favor of local and state bans on the method of extracting natural gas by injecting a mix of water and chemicals into the ground.

Colorado has been perhaps the toughest of the traditional swing states for Trump. He has been consistently trailing Clinton by roughly 10 points in head-to-head match ups in the state, where 21% of the population is Hispanic.

The state’s Republican party is dominated by social conservative activists who overwhelmingly rejected Trump in April’s state convention, sending a delegation to Cleveland where every elected member was a Ted Cruz supporter. Further, Colorado’s delegation became the hotbed of anti-Trump activism at the RNC with one delegate, Kendal Unruh, leading the quixotic effort to unbind delegates in a last ditch attempt to stop Trump.

Efforts to excite the Republican base have also been depressed by the election of Darryl Glenn as the party’s nominee for Senate in November. Glenn, a lackluster fundraiser, has already been written off by Washington Republicans and is unlikely to provide any help to the top of the ticket.
So either Trump was talking about a nonexistent military base, or he just disseminated classified information about a secret military base. Interesting.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

The Romulan Republic wrote:I would have thought that the success of Obamacare (relatively speaking) might have made further health care reform an easier sell- we passed health care reform and America didn't turn into a dictatorship with death panels, health care costs didn't skyrocket, and it wasn't an abject failure. You'd think that would ease the fears of any fence sitters on the subject of single-payer.

But if not, well, it comes down to turn out. Can we motivate high progressive turnout, and will they also vote for Clinton while they're voting for single-payer?
It relieved the pressure is what it did. When the ACA was passed, it committed us to the slow burn. It gives us a path to get a national insurance scheme through the back door, and it is why the public option was fought against and had to be dropped almost immediately. Because it does not answer to shareholders and has tremendous bargaining power to negotiate prices for drugs and medical devices, something like a Medicaid Buy In will inevitably outcompete private insurance and drive them from the market except for supplemental insurance.

The only real problem is that it will end up basically ending private practice physicans in certain specialties, due to the record keeping and Best Practices quality management that goes along with medicare/medicaid. The regulatory burden is just too much for them to handle personally, and the overhead to make it work is too high.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
User avatar
maraxus2
Padawan Learner
Posts: 340
Joined: 2016-04-11 02:14am
Location: Yay Area

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by maraxus2 »

The Romulan Republic wrote:I would have thought that the success of Obamacare (relatively speaking) might have made further health care reform an easier sell- we passed health care reform and America didn't turn into a dictatorship with death panels, health care costs didn't skyrocket, and it wasn't an abject failure. You'd think that would ease the fears of any fence sitters on the subject of single-payer.

But if not, well, it comes down to turn out. Can we motivate high progressive turnout, and will they also vote for Clinton while they're voting for single-payer?
True, but they're also content with what they have. If the Median voter doesn't feel like there's an issue with their social safety net, they don't like people fucking around with it. This is why any attempts to change social security probably won't get off the ground, at least not without serious political consequences. It's when people start hurting that they push for change. That's why Obama pushed for Obamacare when he did - the healthcare system was in crisis and people were feeling desperate. Now that it's over, the public at large doesn't seem too terribly interested in programs that could be better.

And it seems so. Even without SPH on the ballot, Clinton apparently feels comfortable enough to cancel her ad buys out there for the moment.

Terralthra wrote:So, Donald Trump received his first classified briefing this week, and then this happened:

So either Trump was talking about a nonexistent military base, or he just disseminated classified information about a secret military base. Interesting.
It's fine dude, he's a great candidate with lots of hidden strengths that we can't see and he's going to win the election because hillary sucks.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
User avatar
maraxus2
Padawan Learner
Posts: 340
Joined: 2016-04-11 02:14am
Location: Yay Area

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by maraxus2 »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:It relieved the pressure is what it did. When the ACA was passed, it committed us to the slow burn. It gives us a path to get a national insurance scheme through the back door, and it is why the public option was fought against and had to be dropped almost immediately. Because it does not answer to shareholders and has tremendous bargaining power to negotiate prices for drugs and medical devices, something like a Medicaid Buy In will inevitably outcompete private insurance and drive them from the market except for supplemental insurance.

The only real problem is that it will end up basically ending private practice physicans in certain specialties, due to the record keeping and Best Practices quality management that goes along with medicare/medicaid. The regulatory burden is just too much for them to handle personally, and the overhead to make it work is too high.
Goddamnit Aly, just when I hit the submit button...

I do think you'll see lots of tweaks around the edges, especially if the Dems ever manage to sustain a majority in Congress for more than two years. Especially if the Dems continue to move in a more progressive direction.
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

maraxus2 wrote:And it seems so. Even without SPH on the ballot, Clinton apparently feels comfortable enough to cancel her ad buys out there for the moment.
I hope she's not being overconfident, but I'm glad to hear that she's doing well in Colorado. Colorado is my state, and irrational though it may be given my extremely limited influence on the outcome, I'd feel no small amount of personal shame, and take it almost as a personal insult, if Colorado went to Trump.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Alyrium Denryle
Minister of Sin
Posts: 22224
Joined: 2002-07-11 08:34pm
Location: The Deep Desert
Contact:

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
maraxus2 wrote:And it seems so. Even without SPH on the ballot, Clinton apparently feels comfortable enough to cancel her ad buys out there for the moment.
I hope she's not being overconfident, but I'm glad to hear that she's doing well in Colorado. Colorado is my state, and irrational though it may be given my extremely limited influence on the outcome, I'd feel no small amount of personal shame, and take it almost as a personal insult, if Colorado went to Trump.
She can always buy ads if her numbers start to slip. But she has a good ground game in every state too, something Trump completely lacks. So it is not as if she has pulled up stakes and left.
GALE Force Biological Agent/
BOTM/Great Dolphin Conspiracy/
Entomology and Evolutionary Biology Subdirector:SD.net Dept. of Biological Sciences


There is Grandeur in the View of Life; it fills me with a Deep Wonder, and Intense Cynicism.

Factio republicanum delenda est
Patroklos
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2577
Joined: 2009-04-14 11:00am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Patroklos »

Terralthra wrote: So either Trump was talking about a nonexistent military base, or he just disseminated classified information about a secret military base. Interesting.
We still have forces in SA, which your article author would know if he bothered to do a simple google search. The fact that we closed our dedicated main base in 2003 is probably why we pay rent to use facilities on Saudi bases. Which doesn't mean its a bad thing, both us and Saudi wanted our visibility lowered. At the same time I am sure the rent could be overlooked given the preferential treatment we give SA if push came to shove. If I had to guess the rent exists as a legal mechanism of some sort.
Saudi Arabia. The U.S. withdrew the bulk of its troops from Saudi Arabia in 2003. Little information on the number of U.S. military personnel currently based there is available. However, elements of the U.S. 379th Air Expeditionary Wing, along with the six-decade-old United States Military Training Mission to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the four-decade-old Office of the Program Manager of the Saudi Arabian National Guard Modernization Program, and the five-year-old Office of the Program Manager–Facilities Security Force are all based in Eskan Village Air Base, approximately 13 miles south of the capital city, Riyadh.70
http://index.heritage.org/military/2015 ... ddle-east/

You can also use Google...
Grumman
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2488
Joined: 2011-12-10 09:13am

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Grumman »

Terralthra wrote:So either Trump was talking about a nonexistent military base, or he just disseminated classified information about a secret military base. Interesting.
The Eskan Village Air Force Compound is not technically a "base", but it's close enough that that would probably be what he was talking about. Also, on Wikipedia, so not a secret.
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: The 2016 US Election (Part III)

Post by Flagg »

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:I would have thought that the success of Obamacare (relatively speaking) might have made further health care reform an easier sell- we passed health care reform and America didn't turn into a dictatorship with death panels, health care costs didn't skyrocket, and it wasn't an abject failure. You'd think that would ease the fears of any fence sitters on the subject of single-payer.

But if not, well, it comes down to turn out. Can we motivate high progressive turnout, and will they also vote for Clinton while they're voting for single-payer?
It relieved the pressure is what it did. When the ACA was passed, it committed us to the slow burn. It gives us a path to get a national insurance scheme through the back door, and it is why the public option was fought against and had to be dropped almost immediately. Because it does not answer to shareholders and has tremendous bargaining power to negotiate prices for drugs and medical devices, something like a Medicaid Buy In will inevitably outcompete private insurance and drive them from the market except for supplemental insurance.

The only real problem is that it will end up basically ending private practice physicans in certain specialties, due to the record keeping and Best Practices quality management that goes along with medicare/medicaid. The regulatory burden is just too much for them to handle personally, and the overhead to make it work is too high.
As someone who regularly needs to see his PCP and various specialists, I do have to admit that it's become harder to get an appointment within what I consider to be an acceptable time period (sometimes up to 2 weeks for PCP barring a serious issue, and months for a specialist, again, barring a serious issue) since the ACA has come into effect. That said, I'm glad people who didn't have access before have it now and I'm sure things will get better in the long run. But it's hard to say it's not frustrating when you have a painful issue and have to wait 6 weeks to see the specialist in which time the problem may have resolved itself (leaving the issue of identification low and recurrence high) or gotten so bad you need to go to the ER (which could result in hospitalization).

So I just have to kind of 'Hot Fuzz' it and say it's for the greater good. "THE GREATER GOOD". :lol:
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Locked