MORE Conversations From the Professional Front Lines

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

The problem, of course, is all these solutions assume the knife-wielding maniac isn't as crafty as you and hasn't been in a lot of fights before. If that's not the case, then the main distinction is he has a knife and you don't.

[Venator]

The problem, of course, is all these solutions assume the knife-wielding maniac isn't as crafty as you and hasn't been in a lot of fights before. If that's not the case, then the main distinction is he has a knife and you don't.

Well then you just shoot him with your perfectly legal, 2nd-amendment-protected, concealed-carry automatic high-explosive anti-tank submachine shotgun, because 'murica.

[Raw Shark]

I don't know what would happen if I actually had to fight, though.

Two probable outcomes: You win or you lose.

The problem, of course, is all these solutions assume the knife-wielding maniac isn't as crafty as you and hasn't been in a lot of fights before. If that's not the case, then the main distinction is he has a knife and you don't.

I don't think any of us are assuming anything, we're just giving advice about things that we have successfully done before. If the knife-wielding maniac is also trained and/or experienced in hand-to-hand, you're probably fucked, but you might as well try to win unless you have a death wish.

Well then you just shoot him with your perfectly legal, 2nd-amendment-protected, concealed-carry automatic high-explosive anti-tank submachine shotgun, because 'murica.

The only gun that I own isn't very concealable, but I do own one despite being a hippie. Y'know, because 'murica.

[SCRawl]

In my Krav Maga class, we're taught a few different ways of defending against knife attacks. The simplest is (mostly) a wrist-on-wrist block with one arm while you simultaneously counter with a blow to the face with the other arm. The attack types that we're defending against are relatively simple themselves -- overhead "icepick" attacks or upward stabbing attacks -- probably because I'm still learning the very early stuff. But yeah, all defensive techniques end up with getting out of dodge as quickly as possible while keeping a careful eye out for more attackers.

[Raw Shark]

In my Krav Maga class, we're taught a few different ways of defending against knife attacks. The simplest is (mostly) a wrist-on-wrist block with one arm while you simultaneously counter with a blow to the face with the other arm. The attack types that we're defending against are relatively simple themselves -- overhead "icepick" attacks or upward stabbing attacks -- probably because I'm still learning the very early stuff. But yeah, all defensive techniques end up with getting out of dodge as quickly as possible while keeping a careful eye out for more attackers.

I've never done Krav Maga, but that sounds right to me. Imi Lichtenfeld and I learned how to fight in the same place: face down in the dirt.

[Broomstick]

The problem, of course, is all these solutions assume the knife-wielding maniac isn't as crafty as you and hasn't been in a lot of fights before. If that's not the case, then the main distinction is he has a knife and you don't.

In my admittedly limited experience, most people have NOT been in that many fights before, just about no one actually knows how to use a knife offensively, and in the instances I was involved in my attacker was relying more on psychological intimidation than, you know, actually wielding a knife as a weapon.

So, yeah, in those particular cases it was relatively easy for me to stop their thrust, disarm them, and beat the crap out of them sufficiently for me to make a safe getaway.

However, every encounter is different. If I was up against someone who had actually studied knife fighting I'd have been shit out of luck. In their case, they had the misfortune to threaten someone who's older sister taught self defense and who wouldn't automatically roll over and surrender if someone waved a blade around.

[SCRawl]

I've never done Krav Maga, but that sounds right to me. Imi Lichtenfeld and I learned how to fight in the same place: face down in the dirt.

In the mythology -- well, the official story, anyway, and I don't know how close it is to the real story -- is that Imi had learned to fight in the boxing ring and on the wrestling mat, and found out when it came to fighting people for real those skills were of less value than he had thought. So he came up with his own system, which is why we have Krav Maga.

[Venator]

However, every encounter is different. If I was up against someone who had actually studied knife fighting I'd have been shit out of luck. In their case, they had the misfortune to threaten someone who's older sister taught self defense and who wouldn't automatically roll over and surrender if someone waved a blade around.

Aside from someone who knows what they're doing, the other bad situation to be in is someone who's not particularly skilled, but angry, highly aggressive and relatively strong. Exhibit A, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abv4oZPAcGA

From all my instruction and second-hand accounts (I've been fortunate enough to not be in that situation myself), the overriding message has been that the goal of a serious stabbing attack not to win, but to lose less. A couple cuts and scrapes using Krav Maga techniques beats the hell out of a few head or torso stab wounds.

In my admittedly limited experience, most people have NOT been in that many fights before, just about no one actually knows how to use a knife offensively, and in the instances I was involved in my attacker was relying more on psychological intimidation than, you know, actually wielding a knife as a weapon.

That bears repeating. If you pull your own knife and hold it like you know that you're doing, or immediately go for a wine bottle or 2x4 or whatever, it can defuse some situations just by writ of it not following their pre-determined narrative of "I pull a knife, they get scared and give me what I want". The average person who pulls a knife (limited personal experience) doesn't know what to do with it outside of the melee animations in CoD.

[Esquire]

As they say - 'the greatest swordsman in the world doesn't fear the second-greatest; he fears the worst swordsman in the world, because he has no idea what the idiot will do.' I imagine something similar is true of knife-fighters.

[Raw Shark]

Yeah, unpredictability goes a long way. When I'm not calling it, "Boy Scout Fu," I generally refer to my personal bag of tricks as, "Apeshit Fat Kid Style." The #1 and #2 most dangerous people in my circle of friends are a couple of skinny girls, and I'd prefer to square off against the formally-trained boxer over the trailer kid / bartender any day of the week (but will hopefully never have to with either of them, because they could both probably kick my ass six ways to Sunday). The boxer has asked me to casually spar a couple of times, just to change things up and broaden her perspective of how things go outside of the ring. She can throw a punch like nobody's business, but doesn't know the first thing about wrestling that I didn't show her. The #3 most dangerous person in my circle of friends did four years in Afghanistan with the Marine Corps, but if he's not holding a firearm I'm pretty sure I could beat him like a piñata. The rest of our friends have never been in a fight as adults and usually speak very politely to us.

[Zeropoint]

The rest of our friends have never been in a fight as adults and usually speak very politely to us.

Huh. If I felt like I had to take extra precautions when dealing with someone because I was afraid they'd hurt me, I wouldn't consider that person a friend.

[Raw Shark]

Huh. If I felt like I had to take extra precautions when dealing with someone because I was afraid they'd hurt me, I wouldn't consider that person a friend.

What? I don't want to fight with my friends. I like them. They just know my history and step a little more carefully around me. Except the ones who can fuck me up casually; they get to say whatever they want without any risks besides if it gets bad enough we might not be friends anymore.

[Zeropoint]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. If I felt like I had to "step a little more carefully around" someone, that would be someone I would prefer not to be around.

[Zwinmar]

Bleh, got a guy at work that has major anger problems, very passive-aggressive about it too. Everyone says that its "just _____" really annoying.

[Raw Shark]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. If I felt like I had to "step a little more carefully around" someone, that would be someone I would prefer not to be around.

I mean this in the nicest and least-sexist way: ZP, have you considered that you're a pussy? This is why women don't want to have sex with you. You don't have to be aggressive, just not timid. I'm fun to be around in some ways. Nobody has to do anything, it's just kind of how people who know me tend to act. The fact that my wallet is the one that says, "Bad Motherfucker," on it does not change that I'm a pacifist who believes that violence is wrong and a form of tyranny, besides also a form of recreation and a useful skill.

[Alyrium Denryle]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. If I felt like I had to "step a little more carefully around" someone, that would be someone I would prefer not to be around.

People do that subconsciously. If you know a guy has had to defend himself from a knife-wielding attacker and won while unarmed, you will pretty much automatically be careful around them, even if they are a cuddle monster like Raw Shark.

[Broomstick]

Keep in mind that the female half of the human race is pretty much forced to associate daily with people larger, stronger, and more aggressive than they are - "stepping more carefully" easily becomes second nature to us.

[Simon_Jester]

Also, "step more carefully" does not mean the same as "feel fear of" or "comply with them to avoid getting hurt."

It can also mean "avoid being casually insulting" or "do not do things you know will make this person angry." Often that's a level of courtesy that everyone should show everyone, but people who are immature or who don't expect anything bad to happen when they offend others fail to show it.

[Alyrium Denryle]

To put it another way. One particular individual who has been one of my closest friends for oh, going on 20 years now, is a rather large individual. Just shy of 2 meters tall with a muscular frame (he trained as a firefighter, but went into EMTness and has gone back to school for mechanical engineering).

He is a human golden retriever. Or possibly a large cuddly muppet creature. He personality is a Fozzy-Bear/Gonzo hybrid (easy going like Fozzy, but has a brain and a somewhat wacky disposition) The only time I have ever known him to engage in violence is when interdicting gay-bashers (and you know who they were targeting). He doesn't even manspread on the bus.

But when you people watch, you notice that people defer to him in dominance rituals. You dont find those guys who want to be socially dominant give him any lip or try to subtly intimidate him. Because he is bigger than they are.

[Raw Shark]

Keep in mind that the female half of the human race is pretty much forced to associate daily with people larger, stronger, and more aggressive than they are - "stepping more carefully" easily becomes second nature to us.

Not quite universal. Like I mentioned, the two people who could probably beat me up, down, and sideways are both equipped with one vagina each. Of course, that might be part of why they learned how to fight in the first place.

But when you people watch, you notice that people defer to him in dominance rituals. You dont find those guys who want to be socially dominant give him any lip or try to subtly intimidate him. Because he is bigger than they are.

Most of the big guys that I know try to downplay it a little, because they want people to relate to them normally and not as some kind of threatening ogre. Two of my friends are over 6' tall and 300#, and they're both pretty low-key about it. But they definitely don't get fucked with, except when somebody feels like they have something to prove. One of them once said, "The biggest asshole in the room always hits the biggest guy in the room first, and it's usually a sucker punch."

I'm average size, personally, but I get by on hard-earned swagger and a little bit of don't-give-a-fuckitude. If somebody kills me, the last thing I ever do will be to try to return the favor, and I know how to communicate that with my body language. I've also been told that my voice can be a little intimidating. Theatrical experience for the win.

[LadyTevar]

Can we get back on-topic?

[Broomstick]

OK!

I recently changed to a new position at work. Without going into a LOT of detail, I have to set the price tags and signage for the "soft lines" department by 6 am Sunday morning (yes, that means going to work god-awful early, even pulling an overnight shift if necessary). This Sunday was my first time doing it solo. I have been trained, but I expressed concern to my new boss about not finishing on time and being less than perfect in execution. She reassured me that she knew it would take a few weekly cycles for me to really get the hang of things and that I should just do my best. I'm not 100% trusting of this lady, but she has expressed that while my work output has not been perfect she is nonetheless pleased overall with my progress in my new role.

OK, I go in at 3 am this morning and... well, I blew the deadline by about 3 hours and the results were not perfect. No one yelled at me (with one peculiar exception) and (most of) my coworkers/teammates helped out a bit and had suggestions.

The one problem case is the gal going from primary person in this role to backup. She rushes in at 5 am "What do you need help with? OMIGOD! You'll never get done! You'll get yelled at! OMIGOD! Hurry up! Hurry up!"



I told her what wasn't done and asked her what she'd like to help with.

"I don't care! It's hopeless anyway. Just give me something! Hurry up!"



I told her to relax. If anyone was going to get yelled at it would be me, so it was my problem, not hers.

Honest to god, she stood there like she'd been pole axed. "X is going to yell at you!"

I've been yelled at before. Why was she getting more upset about this than me?

"Well, it's on you. You'll probably get written up. You'll be in so much trouble."



Funny, I have a certain sub-set of coworkers who have been telling me for years I am going to be written up or drug-tested or otherwise penalized. Hasn't happened yet. Oh, sure, I have had management communicate when they were not happy with my work output or some other thing, but it has been largely congenial. Really, this chick seemed gobsmacked I wasn't in a panic and mad at me because she couldn't induce a panic.

THEN she told another co-worker I didn't know how to do an ad-check and sent another co-worker over to teach me. That's when you compare what's in the published ads to what's on the shelf. I've actually been doing those for two years now and pointed that out.

"Why isn't it done? Huh? Huh? That was supposed to be done yesterday, why didn't you do it? Every other department does it the day before!"

Um... no they don't. The pharmacy, the cosmetics, hardware, home goods, and kitchen areas do not do it the day before. I know this because those are the areas I've been doing adchecks in for years. I told Miss Hysteria that if this particular department required it done the day before someone should have told me that before 8 am Sunday (that's two hours past deadline if you're keeping track). Guess I'll have to do better next week, right?

But, according to her I'm going to be in so much trouble, yelled at, etc. She really seemed pissed off that I wasn't in a panic over this.

Well.... it's like this. First, as mentioned, I'd already discussed it with my immediate boss before this weekend. I have no doubt that if the boss is not happy with me she will let me know... because she has. In fact, she is very reliable for expressing why she is Not Happy. Although I have my pride like any other human being and that can sting, I try to view it as a positive because having a boss who doesn't express when they are dissatisfied with your work, making you guess or try to be a mind reader, can be much worse in my experience.

At the end of the day I sent an e-mail to my boss (she wasn't in today, and I won't be in tomorrow) saying I'd done my best but I'd be the first to admit there's room for improvement in my performance. I outlined what I had done to try to compensate for any potential short-comings in today's output and jotted down the highlights of what I've done recently. If the boss is unhappy I'm sure I'll hear about it Tuesday when I go in. I hope Miss Hysteria will have calmed down by then.

Basically, unless my hair is on fire, the earth is coming up to meet me at high velocity after a thousand foot fall, or there are large puddles of blood on the floor it's just not an emergency in my book. Might be serious, but not an emergency if you catch my meaning.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Keep an eye on Miss Hysteria. And check your back for knives.

[Broomstick]

Par for the course.

Remember, I only look harmless....


Miss Hysteria also acts like I'm younger than her and need the wisdom of her years. Uh... no, actually, I'm several years older than her (I just look younger. Most folks put me in my mid-40's, not early 50's. Bwah-ha-HA!) Actually, the gal who IS older than me treats me as an equal and she IS worth listening to, which I do at every opportunity because not only has she been at the company for 12-15 years, she's also got a bunch more life experience than I do and I've gotten to a point of respecting that.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Miss Hysteria also acts like I'm younger than her and need the wisdom of her years. Uh... no, actually, I'm several years older than her (I just look younger. Most folks put me in my mid-40's, not early 50's. Bwah-ha-HA!) Actually, the gal who IS older than me treats me as an equal and she IS worth listening to, which I do at every opportunity because not only has she been at the company for 12-15 years, she's also got a bunch more life experience than I do and I've gotten to a point of respecting that.

I've worked with my share of Miss Hysterias, and that's par for the course as well.