The tables are turned on hunters

[Zor]

In this scenario a few strange things happen. First there are some meteor showers which land in mostly in rural areas. Then come a spike of missing persons cases around the world in rural areas, but most pronouncedly in the United States, Canada, Australia, the Middle East, Siberia and Africa. All of which have the same features in common...

• All the missing individuals were at least 18 years old
• All the missing individuals were carrying firearms
• None of the individuals were active military personnel or police (outside of the middle east where those distinctions are hazy due to the chaos in said region).
• All the missing individuals were away from population centers
• All the missing individuals experienced a loss of communications shortly before they vanished
• All the missing individuals had firearms on them and most of them were out hunting

A few children and teenagers that were with their parents or relatives during these expeditions report the saw strange things before the adults in their group disappeared and there are a handful of videos. A while afterwards people find some trace of what happened to these individuals in the form of blood and human bones stripped bare of tissue, some of which have carbon scoring but all of them lack head and neckbones. Their are also a few strange artifacts found nearby as well as RADAR ghosts and subsequent meteor strikes. After about six months thanks to some clever planning by the Australian Military manages to catch a party of these guys in the act and though they suffer some casualties in doing so eventually they manage to bring down one individual while the others managed to escape in a 20 meter long triangular spacecraft. And it turns out a few of the wilder speculations were true, these beings are aliens.

The aliens in question are radially symmetrical with six limbs (three arms, three legs) and stand about 1.5 meters tall on average. They have a 'head' on top of a barrel shaped torso and a mouth on the underside. They can run at speeds of up to 40km/h. They usually wear are clad in suits capable of a full environmental seal that also have a powered exoskeleton, armored plating that can offer some protection against an M2 browning which has a thermoptic camouflage capacity. Their main armament is a laser rifle able to fire a 30kj pulse at maximum power with lower settings. Other artifacts they posses are a set of vibro knives, jamming drones to stop cell phones, scout drones to pick up prey, mechanisms for setting up traps, bottles of foul smelling liquid which turns out to contain about 10% alcohol as well as some other chemicals which are probably some form of mild intoxicants, a few 20cm long cylindrical containers and a small personal computer which contains (among other things) some strange music, a few unusual games, what looks like a few stories in print and some images, most notably these being this creature and a few others brandishing weapons and posing with the corpse of a missing hunter. The cylinders it turns out contained a stew of vegetables (some alien, some terrestrial) and human flesh. They were forced to abandon their campsite in a hurry and among some gear found in it was a thing box containing a human head, it's features distorted into a garish grimace and in some way preserved against rot and another containing the skins of hunters undergoing similar processing.

What can be ascertained is this, there is a culture of aliens which have decided that human hunters are worthy sport prey. The hunts continue after the Australian Army takes down the hunter. There will be about 10,000 of these hunters coming to earth every ten months and they'll usually take six hunters a piece.

What do you do and what is your response?

Zor

[U.P. Cinnabar]

My initial response is to laugh my ass off at all those rednecks who slaughter deer("to control the population")take their heads and leave the carcasses to rot getting their comeuppance.

Then, I'd realize that the alien game hunters are not discriminating between "sport" hunters and people hunting to feed their families, so they have to be made to understand that we really are the most dangerous game.

Upgun those hunting the alien hunters. Since the aliens' armor can shrug off a 12.7mm round, something along the lines of this, this, orthis, along with optics(and radar) to counteract their camoflauge, would be in order to bring them down.

Maybe modify Big Dog robots to carry Vulcans, Mk. 19s, Bushmasters or Avengers for squad support, if that's feasible.

And, of course, close air support. Lots of close air support.

[Ziggy Stardust]

My initial response is to laugh my ass off at all those rednecks who slaughter deer("to control the population")take their heads and leave the carcasses to rot getting their comeuppance

In all fairness, annual culls of deer populations are actually a very important ecological intervention, especially in the United States and Canada. After 200+ years (depending on the region) of human activity disrupting the food chain, most notably in the destruction of many apex predator populations (wolves, cougars, bears are all significantly less widespread now than they were even in the early 20th century). Without predators at the top of the food chain to naturally deplenish prey populations, the populations of those prey, especially deer, explode. Nothing else is killing them in sufficient quantities to offset their reproduction rate. When the populations explode, they overgraze, destroying most of the plant growth in the understory of the forest that is a major driver of the food chain for dozens or hundreds of other species. It has a huge cascade effect throughout the ecosystem that can be devastating, especially for animals that area already under threat from human activity; you also have to deal with the unpleasant experience of seeing half-starved-to-death skin-and-bones deer wandering the roads because there is nothing left to eat.

I am not personally a hunter, and I do think a lot of the culture of hunting in the U.S. is rather unpleasant and idiotic, but there is actually a valid reason for it, especially as we slowly wean the natural predator populations back (as we have successfully done in some areas).

[Joun_Lord]

My initial response is to laugh my ass off at all those rednecks who slaughter deer("to control the population")take their heads and leave the carcasses to rot getting their comeuppance.

Most hunters don't do that. Even ones who mount heads (something I don't get at all) tend to do so only after butchering the rest of the animal. Most hunters follow the law and know just taking the head would get their hunting license suspended right quick. Even spotlighters and other illegal hunters hunt will often hunt for meat along with their stupid quest for "racks".

And I'd dare say even those who do hunt for trophies aren't doing anything bad enough to be killed over and laughed about. Distasteful as fuck, horribly illegal, just plain horrible, potentially cruel, and fucking stupid but not something worthy of their lives.

And and there is nothing wrong with sport hunting. As Ziggy said its good for the ecological systems to cull deer population. Most sport hunters don't need to hunt to eat but still are going to eat what they kill and not just leave the carcass.

What you might have a problem with is "trophy hunting" or hunting solely for a trophy. The shit people do in Africa for lions and rhinos for shits and giggles. But even then there can be an argument made for the benefit of it. The economic benefit on the community, the fact when done legally its only done on "surplus" animals that provide no benefit to the herd, and gives governments financial incentives to protect their fauna.

On topic, I do nothing. I don't hunt. I have no need to nor any real want. My only real response is to call the aliens cunts like human hunters who hunt from choppers or participate in canned hunts.

What will happen is probably the military is going to be going after the aliens with some heavy caliber weapons and air support and we get to see if the hunters are going to fight back and consider the military "worthy prey". Hunting gets canceled for safety reasons. PETA calls the aliens heroes because they are a bunch of cunts. Alien hunters lose their prey. Animal populations explode in various areas creating ecological damage. National parks and forests worldwide become empty of humans. Assholes like Ron Paul get alot more support for theirs calls to sell off national land so they can be bulldozed into parking lots or whatever.

Scientists try to get in touch with the aliens and ask them why they think a bunch of drunken dumbass dudes with bright orange clothing and pop guns who hunt dumbass animals are worthy prey and how hunting said dumbass dudes with power armor impervious to anything a hunter carries and laser rifles is anywhere close to sporting.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

and I do think a lot of the culture of hunting in the U.S. is rather unpleasant and idiotic

This is my central objection to most hunting which goes on in the US, and in essence, we agree.

While overpopulation may be a valid reason, to these kinds of people it is still an excuse to kill Bambi(as they could give two shits about deer overpopulation), take his head and leave his carcass to rot.

I have no objection to hunting myself; I do take issue with people who kill just to take trophies, instead of using as much of the entire carcass as practical.

Now, back to the RAR! shall we?

[U.P. Cinnabar]

What will happen is probably the military is going to be going after the aliens with some heavy caliber weapons and air support and we get to see if the hunters are going to fight back and consider the military "worthy prey". Hunting gets canceled for safety reasons. PETA calls the aliens heroes because they are a bunch of cunts. Alien hunters lose their prey. Animal populations explode in various areas creating ecological damage. National parks and forests worldwide become empty of humans. Assholes like Ron Paul get alot more support for theirs calls to sell off national land so they can be bulldozed into parking lots or whatever.

Also on the table is the possibility the hunters themselves will upgun with heavier firepower, or try to, fair means or foul. Aside from the weapons I listed above, these people, amongst others, will see business boom, as hunters turned prey try and find ways to turn back into the hunters again.

If the military or even their intended prey engage them with heavier firepower, it's more likely they'll fuck off and find a much happier hunting ground than it would be for them to amp up their response. But, I also wouldn't rule that out.

Scientists try to get in touch with the aliens and ask them why they think a bunch of drunken dumbass dudes with bright orange clothing and pop guns who hunt dumbass animals are worthy prey and how hunting said dumbass dudes with power armor impervious to anything a hunter carries and laser rifles is anywhere close to sporting.

[/quote]

The most likely answer will translate to either "because we can," "because you exist," or both. Maybe they might throw in a few excuses to justify wholesale murder.


(see PM for the rest of my reply, Joun_Lord)

[Korto]

Scientists try to get in touch with the aliens and ask them why they think a bunch of drunken dumbass dudes with bright orange clothing and pop guns who hunt dumbass animals are worthy prey and how hunting said dumbass dudes with power armor impervious to anything a hunter carries and laser rifles is anywhere close to sporting.

I laugh at the sheer irony of this complaint.

Without predators at the top of the food chain to naturally deplenish prey populations, the populations of those prey, especially deer, explode. Nothing else is killing them in sufficient quantities to offset their reproduction rate.

So, all's good with the aliens then (and I mean that, in all black humour, but without a trace of sarcasm). (PS- the word you're looking for is 'deplete')

OK, if it happened for real, I would probably be a bit upset, but I'm unlikely to be personally affected as neither I nor anyone I know well enough to know, actually hunt.

The most likely answer will translate to either "because we can," "because you exist," or both. Maybe they might throw in a few excuses to justify wholesale murder.

But it's not murder. Murder is the deliberate unlawful killing of a human by another human.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

But it's not murder. Murder is the deliberate unlawful killing of a human by another human.

Not quite. Most legal statutes define it as the deliberate unlawful killing of a person by another person, and personhood is not necessarily exclusive to human beings. If these aliens have established they fufill all the prerequisites for personhood, and their human victims have fufilled those same prerequisites, then, yes, it's murder.

Now, if what both Zor and yourself are driving at is that we will, perforce, have to consider a re-think of our relationships with the other animals as a result of this series of incidents(or, if you prefer, this war), then yes, that may hold true.

Or, we may drive the aliens off, and continue hunting other animals, same as the aliens hunting human hunters may simply move on to happier hunting grounds. The thing you have to understand about sentient beings, if we are any judge, is we will only learn the lessons we want taught to us.

[Zor]

But it's not murder. Murder is the deliberate unlawful killing of a human by another human.

As far as I see it if a human was killed in cold blood by a vulcan or a wookiee or a twi'lek it would be murder, as well as vice versa. On the same note I'm pretty sure most of the guys on SD.net would say the same thing.

Zor

[Joun_Lord]

Also on the table is the possibility the hunters themselves will upgun with heavier firepower, or try to, fair means or foul. Aside from the weapons I listed above, these people, amongst others, will see business boom, as hunters turned prey try and find ways to turn back into the hunters again.

If the military or even their intended prey engage them with heavier firepower, it's more likely they'll fuck off and find a much happier hunting ground than it would be for them to amp up their response. But, I also wouldn't rule that out.

Some might, some who hunt for the thrill of it. I doubt most hunters would want to risk their lives that much for what is to many a hobby though. The risks for hunting are there but nowhere near as dangerous as it would be fighting other armed intelligent beings. Thats not hunting, thats fighting in combat.

Now the aliens might fuck off once people start fighting back. Like human hunters they probably aren't willing to deal with such a high risk just to do a hobby.

I wonder if they'd call in their own military in response?

The most likely answer will translate to either "because we can," "because you exist," or both. Maybe they might throw in a few excuses to justify wholesale murder.

Probably or something about how its part of the culture or its illegal but rich aliens do it on unprotected worlds or something. Though if we can talk to them we can possibly get them to knock that shit out. Possibly.

They might not even realize we are intelligent if they are pretty stupid and didn't scan the planet or something equally odd. They'd only be seeing dudes in the woods armed with relatively primitive weapons, other then the advanced construction of the firearm and easily overlooked shit like cell phones the aliens might genuinely see something that doesn't look all that more advanced then an ape if they really squint their eyes and not look too closely.

I'd really have to wonder about how they operated interstellar ships if they are that stupid though.

I laugh at the sheer irony of this complaint.

There is nothing ironic about it. Dudes in advanced armor carrying advanced weapons hunting other dudes is not the same as dudes in camo with at best semi-automatic weapons hunting unintelligent animals is not the same. Hunting atleast in the Americaland has some pretty hefty laws in place to make it more sporting to hunt. Laws on what weapons, what caliber, when they can hunt, and what animals can be hunted. Shit that is considered unsporting like helicopter hunting, drones, and canned hunts are frowned upon by most hunters.

There is a danger in hunting (and not only from other hunters), there is some skill and sporting behavior involved. And certainly ain't nobody hunting other intelligent beings except in maybe mostly forgotten Rutger Hauer/Ice-T movies.

[Korto]

Well, you've caused me to look it up, and according to Black's Law Dictionary of US law (I'll make the trifle dangerous assumption that the law is similar enough elsewhere), a 'Person' is defined as (1) A human being, (2) An entity that is recognised by law as having the same rights and duties as a human being, and (3) The living body of a human being.
So once the entity is recognised by law it would be murder (by our laws), but not before.
Unless you're talking morally, in which case, why do our morals trump theirs?

PS, you mean sapient. Sentient means able to sense, which maybe all animals can do, and maybe all creatures.

Dudes in advanced armor carrying advanced weapons hunting other dudes is not the same as dudes in camo with at best semi-automatic weapons hunting unintelligent animals is not the same.

High-powered rifles using telescopic sights killing some poor dumb animal who has no idea the hunter's even there. The aliens may be being more sporting, at least the humans can recognise what the hell's going on.
And I can't see any reason to denigrate the semi-automatic. It's probably the ideal type of rifle for hunting.
I will concede (after reading what you wrote more fully) that hunting exists on a spectrum, of skill, danger, and sporting behaviour. On the despised end of the spectrum is shooting caged lions, while bow-hunting bears sounds pretty much on the opposite end. None the less, I'm sure you could find worse practises then carried out by these aliens.

Now, if what both Zor and yourself are driving at is that we will, perforce, have to consider a re-think of our relationships with the other animals as a result of this series of incidents(or, if you prefer, this war), then yes, that may hold true.

Personally, no. I just see no moral problem with what they're doing. I have no moral problems with hunters of any species.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Some might, some who hunt for the thrill of it. I doubt most hunters would want to risk their lives that much for what is to many a hobby though. The risks for hunting are there but nowhere near as dangerous as it would be fighting other armed intelligent beings. Thats not hunting, thats fighting in combat.

Correct. I should've been more specific and not have generalized, even by implication.

Now the aliens might fuck off once people start fighting back. Like human hunters they probably aren't willing to deal with such a high risk just to do a hobby.

Agreed.

I wonder if they'd call in their own military in response?

It depends on how well-connected the alien nobs are, and how badly their egos got bruised. Wars have been started for less, which was why I was unwilling to rule out the possibility completely.

They might not even realize we are intelligent if they are pretty stupid and didn't scan the planet or something equally odd. They'd only be seeing dudes in the woods armed with relatively primitive weapons, other then the advanced construction of the firearm and easily overlooked shit like cell phones the aliens might genuinely see something that doesn't look all that more advanced then an ape if they really squint their eyes and not look too closely.

I'd really have to wonder about how they operated interstellar ships if they are that stupid though.

It may be arrogance rather than simple stupidity. They may think they're the only intelligent species in the universe, and chose to ignore anything which contradicted that, while picking out which humans they could kill in their equivalent of a canned hunt, just to prove they were the master race.

Or, they simply may not care, as long as they get to kill something sapient in the most one-sided way possible.

Or, more likely, both.
Or both

[Broomstick]

Now, back to the RAR! shall we?

Can we talk them into targeting urban "gang-bangers"? You know, the drive-by shooters and assholes who seem to hit everything and everyone but their actual targets?

[madd0ct0r]

Zor, are thrmere any documented cases of crossbow weilders being hunted?

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Now, back to the RAR! shall we?

Can we talk them into targeting urban "gang-bangers"? You know, the drive-by shooters and assholes who seem to hit everything and everyone but their actual targets?

Hmmm, an intriguing possibility, but...as much as my heart wants to say yes to this, my head and...well, my heart again...has to say no to this.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Zor, are thrmere any documented cases of crossbow weilders being hunted?

According to the OP, all the ones killed were carrying firearms.

[NecronLord]

In this scenario a few strange things happen. First there are some meteor showers which land in mostly in rural areas. Then come a spike of missing persons cases around the world in rural areas, but most pronouncedly in the United States, Canada, Australia, the Middle East, Siberia and Africa. All of which have the same features in common...

• All the missing individuals were at least 18 years old
• All the missing individuals were carrying firearms
• None of the individuals were active military personnel or police (outside of the middle east where those distinctions are hazy due to the chaos in said region).
• All the missing individuals were away from population centers
• All the missing individuals experienced a loss of communications shortly before they vanished
• All the missing individuals had firearms on them and most of them were out hunting

[...]

What do you do and what is your response?

Zor

No alien is going to have that specific a weird axe to grind with a particular human group so someone must have put them up to it. I question and torture whoever put them up to it. The torture phase is not for information, but to make an example, of course.

So, as Invincible World Overlord, I have you, Zor, hunted down and excoriated to death. While you scream until your lungs burst, I have someone go through your effects to find out how you bribed the aliens, and then I use these easily bribed aliens to enforce my rule.

God what a stupid thread.


Presupposing that I'm not Invincible World Overlord, I stay the fuck out of their way and marvel at why they have such a specific axe to grind that they're going to travel faster than light, but somehow exempt police officers and anyone under our western-centric 18 years of age cutoff.

[Broomstick]

Well, not as stupid as some we've had lately... I give it one Broomstick Parrot out of three, as opposed the recent contributions by Archinist which uniformly get three Parrots. At least.

[madd0ct0r]

Whats the population of hunters world wide? Can we assume their attacks are evenly spread?

In areas where people are hunting for food, dogs, nets, bows and boomerangs make a comback. The nature of preffered prey changes too. Why risk a wilderbeast when you can trap a few hares instead. Same method change goes for poachers, but i imagine that kind of short high risk high return activity would encourage people to risk being in the wild with a gun.
Being a game warden or travelling at all in bear country just got really fucling dangerous. I wonder if air canister powered dart throwers would count as guns to the aliens. Or tasers, come to that.

In areas where the authorities decide they dont need jackassess up gunning and trading straffing rounds with the aliens, biological measures might be the quickest option to control deer, sheep or kangaroo populations. Rewilding reintroduces wolves and bears, with a balance needing to be struck about danger to hikers or homesteaders. In some places the deer cull will be done with poisoned bales over winter or similar.

There is a tremendous outbreak of military paranoia and buildup. This might chase the aliens off, draw more of them in, or lead to a human human world war three while the alien frat boys laugh at our uncivilised culture.

[Elheru Aran]

Hunting without guns isn't *that* hard; people do it all the time. Bows are the preferred method, but you can do it otherwise with spears, spear-throwers, hell even knives (a bit of a fad in some US states against wild boar, specifically). Bow-hunting deer is already pretty much a thing though, so I don't expect that to fall off much.

One thing will change though-- big-game hunting, or even hunting anything much bigger than a deer, will become very much a prestige sport for the wealthy. I mean, it kind of is nowadays, but the fact of the matter is it's a lot easier to kill small game without guns than it is something like a bear or a rhinoceros. I would also expect more mounted hunting and hunting with dogs/trained animals, both of which are again something that largely the wealthy use (though in the US, of course, hunting with dogs is fairly common where legal).

The exception would be groups of lower income people getting together to take care of a large animal on their own. You might see a few families in Canada splitting a moose among themselves, for example, or an African town killing an elephant with poisoned spears.

Netting birds and other small game might become more popular though. Boomerangs... I'm not sure how practical those are for most people.

[Elheru Aran]

Now if it's a general proscription against firearms-- it seems to be curiously specific to hunters-- then that would make the RAR rather more interesting. Would missiles count as firearms, for example? Gyrojet-type weapons?

Maybe we just found out why the Imperium of Man uses the holy bolter...

[NecronLord]

Well, not as stupid as some we've had lately... I give it one Broomstick Parrot out of three, as opposed the recent contributions by Archinist which uniformly get three Parrots. At least.

Archinist's intelligence compares unfavourably to your house pets. Zor should know better.

This thread is like aliens landing and deciding to build Trump's wall to keep the Mexicans out, it's so improbable for an alien.

[Zixinus]

So, the scenario is essentially Predator with more alien aliens and the world not being ignorant of them.

I think the scenario Zor is trying to hint at, is that an agreement is reached with the aliens. Hunting times and areas are defined, rules are agreed upon, armaments leveled to make the fight less one-sided, conditions for losing and winning set. Most of all, "prey" humans would be volunteer (and trained) humans who would be compensated for the risk they take. In exchange, aside not being targeted by every human military force on the planet with heavy weapons, the aliens will communicate with Earth and share some knowledge with every game.

[MKSheppard]

What do you do and what is your response?

Declare open season no bag limit on alien hunters and that DNR regulations on caliber, etc of firearms used in hunting them don't apply.

40 watt phase, plasma rifles here we come.

[MKSheppard]

Ho! I just noticed:

armored plating that can offer some protection against an M2 browning which has a thermoptic camouflage capacity.

http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/t ... mg-rifles/

Cheapest is $3.6K

http://www.catphones.com/en-us

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