World of Warcraft: Legion

[Broomstick]

Yeah, quit your bitchin' - some of us are quite happy playing the game these days. If you hate it that much /ragequit.

[TheFeniX]

What is this, the fucking hugbox? In a thread titled "World of Warcraft: Legion," I give detailed posts (good and bad) about the current Lore, Mechanics, and issues with Blizzard's content in "World of Warcraft: Legion" and I get back "u mad, bro." Even worse: quoting my entire post when your post could have just been "FeniX, you fucking suck" and I wouldn't have to scroll through my own post twice on my phone. Or (OR) you could have just ignored it and posted something constructive because at least I'm talking about the game and not just saying "I'm having fun."

Did this somehow turn into the General Discussion forum on B.net? Because the preceding paragraph fits that place perfectly and I don't post there for good reason. You guys want a downvote system? We can just pull out all the stops.

But hey, the Class Halls matter a whole lot to Blizzard until it would actually make sense for them to matter such as Warriors and Death Knights who should want Sylvannas dead, faction or no faction.

How about this, I've always found a level of polish in WoW and Blizzard's games. So let's take some cheap-shots:
1. Mobs falling through map geometry, sometimes targetable, sometimes not. Even if targettable, definitely not lootable (I'll bet my Legendary was in there: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!).
2. Mobs Evading for zero reason.
3. "Retrieving Item Information....."
and actually quite a few more, three I'm listing (among others) known about since beta. I run into these issues on a basis that I'm not comfortable with seeing out of a Blizzard product.

And I get back "I'm having fun" or "I'm happy" which means fucking nothing because it's not an argument. It's a conclusion to one. So, as much as you'd like to think it: I'm not the one shitposting and I'm not going to modify my posting habits just because you seem to have a problem with me in particular, for whatever reason.

Anyways, what I actually came here to post: I read Sindragosa's Fury used to be the baseline Artifact ability for Frost. Man, that fucking sucks to lose and get replaced with passive "mah sward stab teh things." And the Unholy talent is like the perfect idea for the spec and yet they missed the ball so much with Frost and Blood.

Anyone have the reasoning why Belf female shields get smaller when you take them off your back? I don't know if I'm annoyed it happens or if I'm annoyed it DOESN'T happen on Human females. The shield I'm mogging for my new (finally finished farming it) Purple Judgement is the perfect size, but gets tiny when taken off my back. Meanwhile, the Prot Warrior Artifact shield is "XboxHueg" and stays that huge.

Spoilers concerning the Edgelord Illidan questline: Spoiler

I like how you get to fight a raid group as Illidan in Black Temple. They put down a bunch of markers and do random stupid shit. Then you kill the healers first and it's funtimes. My only problem is the characters are so small comparatively and the Target Frames seemed bugged, so they don't show all the time. Still, fun when they give you stuff like this to do: essentially break the fourth wall of the game and see it from the other side. And it's actually repeatable.

[Darth Yan]

What is this, the fucking hugbox? In a thread titled "World of Warcraft: Legion," I give detailed posts (good and bad) about the current Lore, Mechanics, and issues with Blizzard's content in "World of Warcraft: Legion" and I get back "u mad, bro." Even worse: quoting my entire post when your post could have just been "FeniX, you fucking suck" and I wouldn't have to scroll through my own post twice on my phone. Or (OR) you could have just ignored it and posted something constructive because at least I'm talking about the game and not just saying "I'm having fun."

Did this somehow turn into the General Discussion forum on B.net? Because the preceding paragraph fits that place perfectly and I don't post there for good reason. You guys want a downvote system? We can just pull out all the stops.

But hey, the Class Halls matter a whole lot to Blizzard until it would actually make sense for them to matter such as Warriors and Death Knights who should want Sylvannas dead, faction or no faction.

How about this, I've always found a level of polish in WoW and Blizzard's games. So let's take some cheap-shots:
1. Mobs falling through map geometry, sometimes targetable, sometimes not. Even if targettable, definitely not lootable (I'll bet my Legendary was in there: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!).
2. Mobs Evading for zero reason.
3. "Retrieving Item Information....."
and actually quite a few more, three I'm listing (among others) known about since beta. I run into these issues on a basis that I'm not comfortable with seeing out of a Blizzard product.

And I get back "I'm having fun" or "I'm happy" which means fucking nothing because it's not an argument. It's a conclusion to one. So, as much as you'd like to think it: I'm not the one shitposting and I'm not going to modify my posting habits just because you seem to have a problem with me in particular, for whatever reason.

Anyways, what I actually came here to post: I read Sindragosa's Fury used to be the baseline Artifact ability for Frost. Man, that fucking sucks to lose and get replaced with passive "mah sward stab teh things." And the Unholy talent is like the perfect idea for the spec and yet they missed the ball so much with Frost and Blood.

Anyone have the reasoning why Belf female shields get smaller when you take them off your back? I don't know if I'm annoyed it happens or if I'm annoyed it DOESN'T happen on Human females. The shield I'm mogging for my new (finally finished farming it) Purple Judgement is the perfect size, but gets tiny when taken off my back. Meanwhile, the Prot Warrior Artifact shield is "XboxHueg" and stays that huge.

Spoilers concerning the Edgelord Illidan questline: Spoiler

I like how you get to fight a raid group as Illidan in Black Temple. They put down a bunch of markers and do random stupid shit. Then you kill the healers first and it's funtimes. My only problem is the characters are so small comparatively and the Target Frames seemed bugged, so they don't show all the time. Still, fun when they give you stuff like this to do: essentially break the fourth wall of the game and see it from the other side. And it's actually repeatable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woDjWnR9Nns

You're not offering constructive criticism mostly. Mostly you're just whining about how the story is teh awfuul. the Blood elves ARE real paladins. They went for help because they realized their prince was evil (he signed on with the same guys who gave the order to have quel'thalas destroyed.)

[TheFeniX]

Austin Powers reference in 2016: relevant. You got me though, I figured you'd link to some cutscene or even some fatguy video trying to justify all the bullshit. Instead: Shitposting. And man, talking about story issues in an RPG. Ugh, RPGs aren't about story at all, right?

I really only have myself to blame engaging someone who didn't get that my reference to "real Paladins" was a direct jab at Liadrin and other Dick Elf Paladins based on shit they actually said and Blizz pulled from the game to make the Blood Knights not look like the total asses they used to be. Though to be fair, Blizz pruned a lot of the Class Quests over the years, so I don't know the exact reasoning.

As part of the original quest-line.

A Blood Knight master possesses incredible skill at wielding and weaving the Light in a way that other so-called 'paladins' can never comprehend. It doesn't stop them from despising us for unleashing the Light's true potential.

Ours is the true way of utilizing the Light, <name>. To show others that would call themselves 'paladins' the folly of their ways, I intend to send an unmistakable message.

The Alonsus Chapel, where the Order of the Silver Hand was founded, seems immune to the destruction of Stratholme. The chapel's eternal flame affords it the Light's protection, but when you use this mixture to extinguish the flame, that protection will be no more. It will burn, and our dominion over the Light will be proven to the world.

Have you done as I asked and delivered my message? The false paladins of the world must surely know their time has come to an end.

To be fair, most the major Horde quest-givers are arrogant, warmongering, shitfucks. (Also, why the Hell is Garrosh still in... whatever that mudhut the Faction Lead hangs out in in Org is?)

And this wasn't some bullshit sidequest offered by a nobody: this is how Valley Girl Paladins got their mount. I made the mistake of thinking you actually played this game you're so fond of. And for the record, the quest was changed before it was removed. Originally, the "False Paladins" line was delivered by Lady Liadrin.

Yea, they "got better." I never argued they didn't. But talking about how Sunstrider was "evil" and somehow Liadrin wasn't at the time: fucking hilarious. If Kealy hadn't run off with the magic crack dispenser, what catalyst would the Blood Knights had to stop being asshats? You really think they wouldn't have kept drowning in Paladin/Alliance Blood? But they have to fall on their ass, betrayed by their own, and get the Alliance to bail them out of their own bullshit: a trend that Blizzard continues to this day.

Grats though for continuing your worthless "quote entire post then shitpost" shtick in an attempt to get the thread locked. You found a niche, it works for you.

[Broomstick]

What is this, the fucking hugbox? In a thread titled "World of Warcraft: Legion," I give detailed posts (good and bad) about the current Lore, Mechanics, and issues with Blizzard's content in "World of Warcraft: Legion" and I get back "u mad, bro."

You are mad, bro, it's obvious from the way you delivered your detailed posts. They weren't objective, they were rants.

Or (OR) you could have just ignored it and posted something constructive because at least I'm talking about the game and not just saying "I'm having fun."

I was talking about the game when I posted that.

You guys want a downvote system? We can just pull out all the stops.

No. Personally, I'd like you to whine a hell of a lot less.

But hey, the Class Halls matter a whole lot to Blizzard until it would actually make sense for them to matter such as Warriors and Death Knights who should want Sylvannas dead, faction or no faction.

I have no comment to contribute to this because I don't play a warrior and my DK is something like level 83 so not on the Broken Isles yet.

How about this, I've always found a level of polish in WoW and Blizzard's games. So let's take some cheap-shots:
1. Mobs falling through map geometry, sometimes targetable, sometimes not. Even if targettable, definitely not lootable (I'll bet my Legendary was in there: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!).

Problem off and on since vanilla and it's improved over the years.

2. Mobs Evading for zero reason.

See above.

3. "Retrieving Item Information....."

I had more problems with that in Draenor. It could also be your computer (mine is about 6 years old and getting marginal for WoW) or the amount of people in the area. Should it happen? No, but none of these three problems are unique to this expansion.

And I get back "I'm having fun" or "I'm happy" which means fucking nothing because it's not an argument.

I wasn't aware that an argument was required in this thread.

And "I'm happy and having fun" is not nothing, it's really everything, because unless someone is having fun Blizzard has no customer base.

Here are some more concrete contributions for you:

- whoever decided a free-for-all arena in the Underbelly would make a good quest destination was a complete asshat, but good on Blizzard for giving you the option of hiring a bodyguard so you don't have to corpse-drag to finish a quest.

- Yay the option for flying to a couple of the new quest-hubs in Highmountain instead of running the gauntlet on the roads.

- Yay goblin gliders working in the Broken Isles. Not quite as good as flying, but it's a decent second and gives you another option for getting around.

- Whoever did some of the quests in Val'shaya must have known some tweakers in real life, they've really got the drug addict vibe down. The quest "buddy" constantly scratching/picking at himself and saying he's not an addict but could you please spare some mana dust was nicely done.

[TheFeniX]

I was talking about the game when I posted that.

And contributing nothing while doing so since "it's fun" doesn't give any actual information.

No. Personally, I'd like you to whine a hell of a lot less.

Well, I'd like to you post something worthwhile, but we can't always get what we want.

I have no comment to contribute to this because I don't play a warrior and my DK is something like level 83 so not on the Broken Isles yet.

Which totally qualifies you to post on the GD b.net forums with "quit complaining" when a spec (and now nearly an entire class) has been beaten and/or ignored consistently by Blizzard. I don't play a Warlock (at least, not at max, mine is 60), but I don't go around telling Locks to quit bitching when their entire class, some of who mained it since they started playing, is in the trash heap.

If someone wanted to come into this thread and write long rants about why Warlocks suck and offer information about mechanical issues: I'd actually love to read that. In fact, my "it's fun" moment has been talking with people in this thread about issues with Frost DKs. I don't know if they've enjoyed it, but I damn sure have.

Problem off and on since vanilla and it's improved over the years.

Played since Wrath through Cata and MoP. The amount of mobs bugging out since this expansion has been out surpasses what I've seen through all three previous expansions. The amount of "WTF is this shit?" has also surpassed all three other expansions combined. Perrex WQ was bugging out across two separate kills on two different characters. On that same night, I aggroed a mob underground and could actually kill it, so I didn't have to run 6 miles to drop combat. This is just one night.

I wasn't aware that an argument was required in this thread.

You don't like the information I'm offering, throw up a counterpoint, not "you're harshin' my buzz, man." Otherwise, you could ignore it. I was content to ignore your "I'm having fun" bullshit until you finally made it clear you have an issue with me directly. When people say shit I don't like but don't have a counter-argument for: I ignore it because it's just not that hard a thing to do.

And "I'm happy and having fun" is not nothing, it's really everything, because unless someone is having fun Blizzard has no customer base.

Fun isn't an argument, it's something you're supposed to find in entertainment. Saying "It's fun" is no different than saying "It's a Video Game." And Blizzard is losing their customer base. A big part of this is them pushing short-term sales at the expense of retention.

- Yay the option for flying to a couple of the new quest-hubs in Highmountain instead of running the gauntlet on the roads.

For having some of the best music in the expansion (and even the game), Highmountain is just a pain to navigate. And some of the most visually appealing areas have little to do in them. And once you hit 110, Blizz just cops out of the whole "no flying" thing by giving you a whistle on a 5min CD that transports you to to the nearest flight path.

And their excuses for complete No Flying are still weak. There's multiple ways you can make an area no flying. Artillery such as in Karasang. Flying mobs that only aggro on fliers. Mobs that pull you to the ground and dismount you. But with flying, Broken Isles would feel as small as it actually is.

Not unlocking flying for WoD now that it's old content is asinine as well. But the real crime is Blizzard throwing mobs along the roads at a level where they really need to remove the "You're much less likely to encounter wandering monsters while following a road" loading tip.

- Whoever did some of the quests in Val'shaya must have known some tweakers in real life, they've really got the drug addict vibe down. The quest "buddy" constantly scratching/picking at himself and saying he's not an addict but could you please spare some mana dust was nicely done.

When you get to 110, the other tweakers you meet are also a good example and your interactions with them show how dieing of mana addiction might have been the better option. But animating has always been solid at WoW HQ. Actually, Blizzard in general. Many of the flavour animations in Heroes of the Storm are top-notch. Chromies intro screen was fantastic and using the Gnome starting area music sold it. Unfortunately, I've found no way to use older intro screens. The Medivh one was "meh"(divh, haha, oh man, that was terrible.....).

Of course, this doesn't explain why Worgen casting animations are so unbelievably terrible.

[Civil War Man]

If someone wanted to come into this thread and write long rants about why Warlocks suck and offer information about mechanical issues: I'd actually love to read that. In fact, my "it's fun" moment has been talking with people in this thread about issues with Frost DKs. I don't know if they've enjoyed it, but I damn sure have.

Personally, even though I don't play, I still keep up with some of the changes because I want WoW to be good. I just can't justify paying for it when it's not. And I mostly keep up with DK changes because that's my class. The only time I didn't main DK was before the launch of WotLK. The state of DK in general and Frost in particular (since they got the Frostmourne-ish weapons) basically determines whether I'm willing to play.

Speaking of Frost DK changes, though, I mentioned in a previous post how theorycrafters have been trying to determine when it becomes a DPS gain to take Obliterate off the action bar entirely. What I didn't realize was that we've apparently already reached that point. Turns out one of the few almost-functional Frost specs consists of taking Frostscythe, Frozen Pulse, and Icy Talons, and having every fight essentially boil down to a) occasionally HB just to keep Frost Fever up, b) Frost Strike to stack Icy Talons, c) spam Frostscythe until you are out of runes with no regard for Killing Machine, d) auto-attack for great justice.

[TheFeniX]

Personally, even though I don't play, I still keep up with some of the changes because I want WoW to be good. I just can't justify paying for it when it's not. And I mostly keep up with DK changes because that's my class. The only time I didn't main DK was before the launch of WotLK. The state of DK in general and Frost in particular (since they got the Frostmourne-ish weapons) basically determines whether I'm willing to play.

Speaking of Frost DK changes, though, I mentioned in a previous post how theorycrafters have been trying to determine when it becomes a DPS gain to take Obliterate off the action bar entirely. What I didn't realize was that we've apparently already reached that point. Turns out one of the few almost-functional Frost specs consists of taking Frostscythe, Frozen Pulse, and Icy Talons, and having every fight essentially boil down to a) occasionally HB just to keep Frost Fever up, b) Frost Strike to stack Icy Talons, c) spam Frostscythe until you are out of runes with no regard for Killing Machine, d) auto-attack for great justice.

I hear you, I keep up with WoW even when not subbed just to give myself something to read and see what I'm missing. With WoD, I seemed to have made the right choice. I've always said, I never miss WoW but man do I miss my Death Knight at times.

The only reason I made a Pally first was because you couldn't roll a DK as a fresh player.

But your post made me laugh. I shit you not, because Icy Veins has no clue what to do with Frost DKs right now and I just don't have it in me to really slog through theroetical builds since I'm not raiding: I came up with that same build on the fly this weekend. I just didn't have a chance to test it because DPS queues are so long and I wanted to knock out my Molten Front dalies and get back to leveling Alts with Rob.

[Broomstick]

If someone wanted to come into this thread and write long rants about why Warlocks suck and offer information about mechanical issues: I'd actually love to read that. In fact, my "it's fun" moment has been talking with people in this thread about issues with Frost DKs. I don't know if they've enjoyed it, but I damn sure have.

The thing is, what YOU find fun and/or amusing in WoW and this thread is very different from what I find amusing. I don't min/max and have zero interest in it. I never had much interest in PvP and find less and less interest as time goes by.

Problem off and on since vanilla and it's improved over the years.

Played since Wrath through Cata and MoP. The amount of mobs bugging out since this expansion has been out surpasses what I've seen through all three previous expansions. The amount of "WTF is this shit?" has also surpassed all three other expansions combined.

See, I don't get that and really have to wonder if it's something to with your computer or something else. I'm not getting that. I think maybe two bugged targets the whole time I've played the expansion on three different servers. I had a demon hunter quest bug on me, but when I came back a day later it was fine. Other than that I haven't had a problem.

- Yay the option for flying to a couple of the new quest-hubs in Highmountain instead of running the gauntlet on the roads.

For having some of the best music in the expansion (and even the game), Highmountain is just a pain to navigate.

You find it a pain. I find it a challenge.

And some of the most visually appealing areas have little to do in them.

I like that if you get off the beaten trail you can be rewarded with a treasure chest tucked away in odd corners. Some of us like exploring and finding appealing vistas.

And once you hit 110, Blizz just cops out of the whole "no flying" thing by giving you a whistle on a 5min CD that transports you to to the nearest flight path.

Not immediately - still have to get my whistle. Of course, I have been distracted by things like a real-life thousand mile road trip these past few days, so it's all good.

[TheFeniX]

The thing is, what YOU find fun and/or amusing in WoW and this thread is very different from what I find amusing. I don't min/max and have zero interest in it. I never had much interest in PvP and find less and less interest as time goes by.

So, your problem with me is you don't like what I like and this somehow has pissed you off enough that (ignoring the multiple options you had available to you) you decided to engage in some kind of "you suck" circle-jerk with Yan.

I have attempted and enjoyed pretty much every aspect of this game to varying degrees at different times, with the sole exception of Rated PvP, contenting myself with only capping in 2vs2s. I also avoided Mythics because this is what Heroics should have been and used to be. Now with the Keystone system, this is driven to Reaper of Souls levels of idiocy.

But the big difference is I don't go around giving people shit just for talking about aspects of the game I find unimportant, good or bad. Because even I'm not that much of an asshole and there are simple aspects of the game I put time into completing, such as finally remembering when Darkmoon is up to beat the ring game to get those badass flaming wings from Brood of Alysrazor as part of my "collect all the toys worth collecting" shtick.

See, I don't get that and really have to wonder if it's something to with your computer or something else. I'm not getting that. I think maybe two bugged targets the whole time I've played the expansion on three different servers. I had a demon hunter quest bug on me, but when I came back a day later it was fine. Other than that I haven't had a problem.

Is it more likely my computer can somehow affect server-side processing such as mob AI and placement or is it more likely your disdain for what you call "min/maxing" has lead you to just not notice these things unless they are clubbing you over the head?

Let me answer that for you: if it was my client causing the issue, I'd be banned.

You find it a pain. I find it a challenge.

There's nothing challenging about circling a mountain looking for a marked path because the map is so shitty. I did this in Skyrim. But that had a really good map mod and I'm sure WoW does too. The "fun" is finding it once. From then on, it becomes "where exactly was that cave entrance Blizzard decided to not mark on the map for some reason?" It would become so much of a chore even Blizzard opted out with the Whistle.

I also did all the exploring I really cared to do in Legion since that part of Pathfinder is done for me. But more than that, I got my Explorer Tabard a couple weeks before flying was added to Classic. And I actually REALLY enjoyed doing that on my Paladin. Mainly because it was done because I didn't have to do it. Sure, I guess technically I don't have to do Pathfinder, but I also don't "have" to use a ground mount either and since Blizzard wants further gating of content they stripped out, may as well.

I like that if you get off the beaten trail you can be rewarded with a treasure chest tucked away in odd corners. Some of us like exploring and finding appealing vistas.

Yes, once. And all that for 20AP, some Garrison Res, and vendor trash. But the zones are very small and gated through 3D terrain and mob density. It's fun once, maybe twice, but after a while it becomes a chore when doing Dailies 2.0, AKA: World Quests.

Not immediately - still have to get my whistle. Of course, I have been distracted by things like a real-life thousand mile road trip these past few days, so it's all good.

Getting friendly in all the pre-110 zones is really only dictated by quest density and travel times. Stormheim probably takes the longest due to the intro, but after that, you only need a few quests after meeting Havi. The 110 questline to friendly doesn't even need you to unlock all the "core" NPCs of questline. It takes maybe 30 minutes at the most, less if you know all the teleporter location spawns the second-time through.

[Broomstick]

So, your problem with me is you don't like what I like and this somehow has pissed you off enough that (ignoring the multiple options you had available to you) you decided to engage in some kind of "you suck" circle-jerk with Yan.

Hey, it's not like we all had a secret meeting and decided to gang up on you, that's your own paranoia talking. You're the one who decided to make this thread a soapbox for your personal issues post after post and got your panties in a twist when it turned out not everyone shared the same opinions. Seriously, your posts are mostly rants about what you don't like about the game, to the point more than one person wondered why the fuck you were still playing it. One post after another about how this or that is broken and what you used to enjoy has now turned to shit. Is there anything you like about WoW in it's current form?

But the big difference is I don't go around giving people shit just for talking about aspects of the game I find unimportant, good or bad.

No one was giving you "shit" - I was and still am wondering why you spend so much time and energy on a game you don't seem to enjoy (although "spend time with friends" does explain a lot).

Is it more likely my computer can somehow affect server-side processing such as mob AI and placement or is it more likely your disdain for what you call "min/maxing" has lead you to just not notice these things unless they are clubbing you over the head?

Let me answer that for you: if it was my client causing the issue, I'd be banned.

Then what is the problem here? Because I'm not having the trouble you are. Maybe these things bug you so much that a few incidents drive you into a rage? Or maybe it is the server your on and Bliz is having problems with some but not all of them?

Same thing with claims that Horde is being treated as a special snowflake or given some sort of advantage. I play both Horde and Alliance, on more than one server, and I just don't see this Overwhelming Bias you claim is there. Or maybe I'm not paying attention or maybe it's just not as important to me. I agree some of the story line/plot/continuity is crap or contradictory but it doesn't grate on me the way it does on you and I get tired of hearing about it every single post you make.

You find it a pain. I find it a challenge.

There's nothing challenging about circling a mountain looking for a marked path because the map is so shitty. I did this in Skyrim. But that had a really good map mod and I'm sure WoW does too. The "fun" is finding it once. From then on, it becomes "where exactly was that cave entrance Blizzard decided to not mark on the map for some reason?"

Again, I'm don't seem to have the problem with navigation that you do. It would be boring if everything was handed to me on a platter and there was no puzzle to figure out.

I like that if you get off the beaten trail you can be rewarded with a treasure chest tucked away in odd corners. Some of us like exploring and finding appealing vistas.

Yes, once. And all that for 20AP, some Garrison Res, and vendor trash. But the zones are very small and gated through 3D terrain and mob density. It's fun once, maybe twice, but after a while it becomes a chore when doing Dailies 2.0, AKA: World Quests.

Again - you find the reward less than adequate. I find the exploration rewarding and the tidbits a bonus. YOU'RE the one insisting it's fun once, maybe twice, not me.

Not immediately - still have to get my whistle. Of course, I have been distracted by things like a real-life thousand mile road trip these past few days, so it's all good.

Getting friendly in all the pre-110 zones is really only dictated by quest density and travel times. Stormheim probably takes the longest due to the intro, but after that, you only need a few quests after meeting Havi. The 110 questline to friendly doesn't even need you to unlock all the "core" NPCs of questline. It takes maybe 30 minutes at the most, less if you know all the teleporter location spawns the second-time through.

See, there's a difference between us - I'm not interested in doing it in the minimum time. What's the point of rushing through everything? I don't care if it takes me 30 minutes or a week because I'm leveling three alts or want to work on a profession or build up some resources as part of generating gold on the auction house. I'll get there. I'm not looking for some other person's notion of "efficiency". I am very much a casual player in that respect. Today I'll probably be doing Brewfest, Darkmoon Faire, collecting some Pandaria mats for a panther mount to get me some gold when I sell it, and hanging out with some buddies in Thunderbluff. I might not make any progress towards leveling or world quests or whatever today and who cares? Tomorrow it might be all about leveling my Alliance mage to 110.

YOU're the one who got upset at someone else saying "I'm having fun" and judging other peoples' posts on how much and what sort of content they have in them.

[TheFeniX]

Hey, it's not like we all had a secret meeting and decided to gang up on you, that's your own paranoia talking. You're the one who decided to make this thread a soapbox for your personal issues post after post and got your panties in a twist when it turned out not everyone shared the same opinions. Seriously, your posts are mostly rants about what you don't like about the game, to the point more than one person wondered why the fuck you were still playing it. One post after another about how this or that is broken and what you used to enjoy has now turned to shit. Is there anything you like about WoW in it's current form?

Gameplay, gating, and mechanical issues with the current largest and most popular MMO on the market are "personal" issues. And are you and Yan so immature you can't ignore posts you can't refute but don't like? Oh wait, but we're getting to that part later in my post.

It's not even about you planning anything. It's you jumping up on his shoulder like that little dog yelling "get him Spike" because he actually had the balls to take a direct swing my direction. Meanwhile, you were only content to snipe with passive aggressive bullshit. You are both still crybabies.

No one was giving you "shit" - I was and still am wondering why you spend so much time and energy on a game you don't seem to enjoy (although "spend time with friends" does explain a lot).

Yeah, quit your bitchin' - some of us are quite happy playing the game these days. If you hate it that much /ragequit.

If that's your idea of "not giving someone shit" then you must be an incredibly unpleasant person to spend any amount of time with.

Then what is the problem here? Because I'm not having the trouble you are. Maybe these things bug you so much that a few incidents drive you into a rage? Or maybe it is the server your on and Bliz is having problems with some but not all of them?

"u mad bro." Give it up. Jesus you fucking kids and your idea anyone takes that bait...... Unless they are assblasted Horde. To be fair, yes: it could be our server group. But "I'm not having the issue, so I'm going to tell you to stop mentioning it" makes you an asshole.

I understand you take any criticism against the game and faction you play personally, but I just want to let you know it makes you sound like a baby. If you bothered to read anything on the WoW forums, you'd understand these problems are not just being noticed by one "supermad FeniXguy" and they've been known about since beta. Anyone considering coming back for Legion might find this information useful, so I will continue to post it.

Same thing with claims that Horde is being treated as a special snowflake or given some sort of advantage. I play both Horde and Alliance, on more than one server, and I just don't see this Overwhelming Bias you claim is there. Or maybe I'm not paying attention or maybe it's just not as important to me. I agree some of the story line/plot/continuity is crap or contradictory but it doesn't grate on me the way it does on you and I get tired of hearing about it every single post you make.

Oh boy, here we go. I post questlist, dialog, and cutscenes from Blizzard themselves showing a Horde player how fucked up their faction is and I get back "I don't see it/it doesn't bother me, so stop talking about."

I don't suck Horde teet and analyze the faction for what it is: garbage. As for the actual playerbase: act like a total fucking skeez and just be that loser no one wants to hang around, but be good to yell "Fuck homo Alliance" and Blizzard gives you a Blizzcon spot:


NO BIAS HERE

Imagine just how terrible that's guys kids are going to be/are. I'm sure they're online right now trolling trade chat with slurs.

You think any Alliance player would be able to go up on stage and rant at length about Fuck the Horde? Probably not because Alliance generally don't view their fictional faction as some kind of life choice. I imagine you as one of the cheering Horde in the background. I normally try to keep the Horde playerbase separate from the faction itself, but you can't reason with Horde players because they usually end up buying into their own bullshit. Like Apple users or vegetarians. And Blizzard coddles them like the babies they are.

They never actually argue the point, merely bring up Garithos or Camp "Alliance burned down some tents taking massive casualties in the process." I would love to have an actual debate on this because I love arguing Lore.

I get tired of hearing about it every single post you make

Let me reiterate: no one forces you to read my long-winded rants. I mean, holy shit, are you really this vain? Hey, the Police Abuse thread bums me out, can you ask them to stop posting articles from Texas cops?

Again, I'm don't seem to have the problem with navigation that you do. It would be boring if everything was handed to me on a platter and there was no puzzle to figure out.

Yes, either make everything stupid annoying or just give players titanforged epics for logging in. The true reasoning skills of a b.net poster.

Again - you find the reward less than adequate. I find the exploration rewarding and the tidbits a bonus. YOU'RE the one insisting it's fun once, maybe twice, not me.

So, opinions are allowed as long as they as positive towards Blizzard: hugbox.

See, there's a difference between us - I'm not interested in doing it in the minimum time. What's the point of rushing through everything? I don't care if it takes me 30 minutes or a week because I'm leveling three alts or want to work on a profession or build up some resources as part of generating gold on the auction house. I'll get there. I'm not looking for some other person's notion of "efficiency". I am very much a casual player in that respect. Today I'll probably be doing Brewfest, Darkmoon Faire, collecting some Pandaria mats for a panther mount to get me some gold when I sell it, and hanging out with some buddies in Thunderbluff. I might not make any progress towards leveling or world quests or whatever today and who cares? Tomorrow it might be all about leveling my Alliance mage to 110.

There's nothing to rush. The time investment, considering you essentially have to level by questing this expansion, is nil. Saying "yea, well I barely play the game, so it's taking me a while" is.... pretty funny actually. You're not even at endgame content and you're giving me shit because I'm complaining about issues with endgame content. Do you actually read your own posts?

YOU're the one who got upset at someone else saying "I'm having fun" and judging other peoples' posts on how much and what sort of content they have in them.

I never once took a shot at your "I'm having fun" horseshit even though I knew they were passive-aggressive shots at me. I waited until you cowardly piggy-backed on Yan's shot at me to call you out for it.

Damn. I'll give you credit, you're really good at poking at people enough that they respond, then getting all defensive to try and make them about to be the bad guy. Your shitposting has annoyed me more than anything Blizzard has done to the game. I find people like you very unpleasant. You pick, pick, pick, even when ignored, until you get that response, then it's "oh my, what brought this upon me!?"

[Knife]

So, came back to WOW after... 7 years I think. When I left, it was during BC but early in it and not even close to Witchking. So mostly vanilla. It has changed a lot but so far so good for me. Most my old toons were lost, Customer Support couldn't find most of them. Found a 67 Rogue and worked with that for a bit till my brother wanted me to jump servers to his and join the horde. Leveling is a lot smoother than I remember. Pally dps is a 3 button joke, but kind of like Pally tank and Pally healz.

[Darth Yan]

Fenix, we have the right to challenge your opinions just as you have the right to say them. You seem outraged that people are disagreeing with you.

And there are other things (The abusive internment camps that treated every orc like garbage even though many were children who never took part in war crimes, Daelin trying to commit genocide in a unprovoked attack, Varian reopening hostilities in wrath and being willing to let yogg saron burn the world even though varimathras and putress weren't acting with sylvannas's approval in launching the attack, cutting off trade for what the orc's jackass friends did rather than anything the orcs did) that people can cite.

Also no there would TOTALLY be alliance wankers going FUCK THE HORDE KILL THEM ALL. Quite a few are on scrollsoflore and battlenet.

I played horde back when I still played it. Considering that blizz goes out of it's way to make the horde evil one could argue the ALLIANCE is the one getting preferential treatment.

[Darth Yan]

Double post.

But yes. Fenix is being kinda a crybaby herself.

[Lord Revan]

For me at least the problem isn't that Fenix doesn't like WoW, that's accepted, my problem is theat he seems to think that if he doesn't like something no one can like it and for the exactly same reasons he doesn't like it. Basically (and yes I know I use that word a lot) he thinks his subjective opinion is objective fact that all must agree on rather his personal opinion. Hence the massive pointless rants, essentially he's trying to convince his personal opinion is the only valid opinion that exists and is pissing off us who like different things then him.

I came here to discuss the game, not read massive rants about how I should be ashamed for liking the game enough to willing play it.

[Broomstick]

Gameplay, gating, and mechanical issues with the current largest and most popular MMO on the market are "personal" issues.

Yes, those issues are so terrible WoW is the largest and most popular MMO.... oh, wait, maybe it's not a problem for a lot of people. Unlike you, I remember the grindfest that was vanilla, when every new Tauren had to corpse-drag across the Southern Barrens because there was no other way to get to the zones you needed to go to in order to level your toon.

It is YOU that is getting upset over all this. All I stated when I said "I'm still having fun" was that I was still having fun. You took that as some sort of personal attack which is a bit bizarre.

Jesus you fucking kids and your idea anyone takes that bait......

I'm not a kid and haven't been one for a long, long time - I'm probably older than you are. Almost certainly, in fact. Maybe that's why I've mellowed out and don't flip out over the imperfections of a game.

To be fair, yes: it could be our server group. But "I'm not having the issue, so I'm going to tell you to stop mentioning it" makes you an asshole.

Never told you to shut up, just said I didn't have the same problem.

I understand you take any criticism against the game and faction you play personally

I play both factions. Did you miss that statement?

If you bothered to read anything on the WoW forums, you'd understand these problems are not just being noticed by one "supermad FeniXguy" and they've been known about since beta. Anyone considering coming back for Legion might find this information useful, so I will continue to post it.

The WoW Forums as authoritative information? No, I don't read the WoW forums. It's like reading the comments on YouTube, they're a brilliant example of Sturgeon's Law.

Sure, anyone coming back to Legion might find your posts useful. They might find someone else's viewpoint useful, too.

Same thing with claims that Horde is being treated as a special snowflake or given some sort of advantage. I play both Horde and Alliance, on more than one server, and I just don't see this Overwhelming Bias you claim is there.

Oh boy, here we go. I post questlist, dialog, and cutscenes from Blizzard themselves showing a Horde player how fucked up their faction is and I get back "I don't see it/it doesn't bother me, so stop talking about."

Again - did you blast past where I play both factions? Incredibly selective reading there.

Probably not because Alliance generally don't view their fictional faction as some kind of life choice.

Again, I play both factions. Did you miss that?

I imagine you as one of the cheering Horde in the background. I normally try to keep the Horde playerbase separate from the faction itself, but you can't reason with Horde players because they usually end up buying into their own bullshit. Like Apple users or vegetarians.

I don't use an Apple, I'm not a vegetarian, AND I PLAY BOTH FACTIONS. What's this "life choice" bullshit you're spouting?

I would love to have an actual debate on this because I love arguing Lore.

I, on the other hand, would not enjoy such a debate and do not enjoy arguing Lore. So, what insult will you hurl at me for those opinions?

I get tired of hearing about it every single post you make

Let me reiterate: no one forces you to read my long-winded rants. I mean, holy shit, are you really this vain? Hey, the Police Abuse thread bums me out, can you ask them to stop posting articles from Texas cops?

Uh... what? What the fuck does the Police Abuse Thread have to do what's going on here?

Yeah, mostly I was ignoring your long-winded rants until they became the only ones in the thread. But hey, that is a good idea, after this I'll just skip your contributions to this thread entirely. Please make note of that, because I won't repeat it no matter how much you howl you're being ignored as the rest of us have an actual discussion without shitting on people of different viewpoints.

Again - you find the reward less than adequate. I find the exploration rewarding and the tidbits a bonus. YOU'RE the one insisting it's fun once, maybe twice, not me.

So, opinions are allowed as long as they as positive towards Blizzard: hugbox.

You seem to allow no opinions unless they are negative towards Blizzard.

There's nothing to rush. The time investment, considering you essentially have to level by questing this expansion, is nil. Saying "yea, well I barely play the game, so it's taking me a while" is.... pretty funny actually.

This is rich - because I disagree with you I must be a kid (although I'm far from that), because I'm not rabidly anti-Horde I must be a one-faction asshat, and now, despite having played this game since 2005 and having multiple characters questing in the Broken Isles I must "barely play the game".

Is it incomprehensible to you that someone could play the game a lot and just genuinely have a different view of it than you do?

I never once took a shot at your "I'm having fun" horseshit even though I knew they were passive-aggressive shots at me. I waited until you cowardly piggy-backed on Yan's shot at me to call you out for it.

Wow, you are really paranoid here. My having fun with a game is horseshit? Why would I play a game that isn't fun to me? And "passive-aggressive" isn't my style at all, over the years I have had no problem with being aggressively aggressive on this forum.

Like Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. You're reading far more into my statements than is actually there. "I'm having fun" was really just a statement that I was (and still am, for that matter) having fun with the new expansion. So is most of my main guild which, by the way, has also been in existence since 2005.

Anyhow, enjoy your misery. This is my last reply to you in this thread. I'll continue the discussion with other people. Note that I am in no way telling you to shut up, or change your posting habits, or in any other way cramping your style. Have at it. I'm just going to take your suggestion and no longer read what you post in this thread.

[Broomstick]

So, came back to WOW after... 7 years I think. When I left, it was during BC but early in it and not even close to Witchking. So mostly vanilla. It has changed a lot but so far so good for me. Most my old toons were lost, Customer Support couldn't find most of them. Found a 67 Rogue and worked with that for a bit till my brother wanted me to jump servers to his and join the horde. Leveling is a lot smoother than I remember. Pally dps is a 3 button joke, but kind of like Pally tank and Pally healz.

So, presuming you got the most recent version, or at least up to Draenor, did you take advantage of the character boost button for either level 90 or 100? If so, how did you feel about it?

I level-boosted one character and I have mixed feelings about doing so, but I'd be interested in how other people view that relatively new feature and their experiences with it.

[Broomstick]

I came here to discuss the game, not read massive rants about how I should be ashamed for liking the game enough to willing play it.

So let's discuss the game - what topic would you like to put on the table?

[bilateralrope]

Most my old toons were lost, Customer Support couldn't find most of them.

How did that happen ?

[Lord Revan]

I came here to discuss the game, not read massive rants about how I should be ashamed for liking the game enough to willing play it.

So let's discuss the game - what topic would you like to put on the table?

For starters I completed my demon Hunter class order hall questline today, it was fun and suitably epic, my only complaint really is how the order hall set chest looks but that can be fixed using the right shirt under it.

[Darth Yan]

Gameplay, gating, and mechanical issues with the current largest and most popular MMO on the market are "personal" issues.

Yes, those issues are so terrible WoW is the largest and most popular MMO.... oh, wait, maybe it's not a problem for a lot of people. Unlike you, I remember the grindfest that was vanilla, when every new Tauren had to corpse-drag across the Southern Barrens because there was no other way to get to the zones you needed to go to in order to level your toon.

It is YOU that is getting upset over all this. All I stated when I said "I'm still having fun" was that I was still having fun. You took that as some sort of personal attack which is a bit bizarre.

Jesus you fucking kids and your idea anyone takes that bait......

I'm not a kid and haven't been one for a long, long time - I'm probably older than you are. Almost certainly, in fact. Maybe that's why I've mellowed out and don't flip out over the imperfections of a game.

To be fair, yes: it could be our server group. But "I'm not having the issue, so I'm going to tell you to stop mentioning it" makes you an asshole.

Never told you to shut up, just said I didn't have the same problem.

I understand you take any criticism against the game and faction you play personally

I play both factions. Did you miss that statement?

If you bothered to read anything on the WoW forums, you'd understand these problems are not just being noticed by one "supermad FeniXguy" and they've been known about since beta. Anyone considering coming back for Legion might find this information useful, so I will continue to post it.

The WoW Forums as authoritative information? No, I don't read the WoW forums. It's like reading the comments on YouTube, they're a brilliant example of Sturgeon's Law.

Sure, anyone coming back to Legion might find your posts useful. They might find someone else's viewpoint useful, too.

Same thing with claims that Horde is being treated as a special snowflake or given some sort of advantage. I play both Horde and Alliance, on more than one server, and I just don't see this Overwhelming Bias you claim is there.

Oh boy, here we go. I post questlist, dialog, and cutscenes from Blizzard themselves showing a Horde player how fucked up their faction is and I get back "I don't see it/it doesn't bother me, so stop talking about."

Again - did you blast past where I play both factions? Incredibly selective reading there.

Probably not because Alliance generally don't view their fictional faction as some kind of life choice.

Again, I play both factions. Did you miss that?

I imagine you as one of the cheering Horde in the background. I normally try to keep the Horde playerbase separate from the faction itself, but you can't reason with Horde players because they usually end up buying into their own bullshit. Like Apple users or vegetarians.

I don't use an Apple, I'm not a vegetarian, AND I PLAY BOTH FACTIONS. What's this "life choice" bullshit you're spouting?

I would love to have an actual debate on this because I love arguing Lore.

I, on the other hand, would not enjoy such a debate and do not enjoy arguing Lore. So, what insult will you hurl at me for those opinions?

I get tired of hearing about it every single post you make

Let me reiterate: no one forces you to read my long-winded rants. I mean, holy shit, are you really this vain? Hey, the Police Abuse thread bums me out, can you ask them to stop posting articles from Texas cops?

Uh... what? What the fuck does the Police Abuse Thread have to do what's going on here?

Yeah, mostly I was ignoring your long-winded rants until they became the only ones in the thread. But hey, that is a good idea, after this I'll just skip your contributions to this thread entirely. Please make note of that, because I won't repeat it no matter how much you howl you're being ignored as the rest of us have an actual discussion without shitting on people of different viewpoints.

Again - you find the reward less than adequate. I find the exploration rewarding and the tidbits a bonus. YOU'RE the one insisting it's fun once, maybe twice, not me.

So, opinions are allowed as long as they as positive towards Blizzard: hugbox.

You seem to allow no opinions unless they are negative towards Blizzard.

There's nothing to rush. The time investment, considering you essentially have to level by questing this expansion, is nil. Saying "yea, well I barely play the game, so it's taking me a while" is.... pretty funny actually.

This is rich - because I disagree with you I must be a kid (although I'm far from that), because I'm not rabidly anti-Horde I must be a one-faction asshat, and now, despite having played this game since 2005 and having multiple characters questing in the Broken Isles I must "barely play the game".

Is it incomprehensible to you that someone could play the game a lot and just genuinely have a different view of it than you do?

I never once took a shot at your "I'm having fun" horseshit even though I knew they were passive-aggressive shots at me. I waited until you cowardly piggy-backed on Yan's shot at me to call you out for it.

Wow, you are really paranoid here. My having fun with a game is horseshit? Why would I play a game that isn't fun to me? And "passive-aggressive" isn't my style at all, over the years I have had no problem with being aggressively aggressive on this forum.

Like Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. You're reading far more into my statements than is actually there. "I'm having fun" was really just a statement that I was (and still am, for that matter) having fun with the new expansion. So is most of my main guild which, by the way, has also been in existence since 2005.

Anyhow, enjoy your misery. This is my last reply to you in this thread. I'll continue the discussion with other people. Note that I am in no way telling you to shut up, or change your posting habits, or in any other way cramping your style. Have at it. I'm just going to take your suggestion and no longer read what you post in this thread.

Bravo.

[TheFeniX]

And there are other things (The abusive internment camps that treated every orc like garbage even though many were children who never took part in war crimes,

It's always funny to see people scrape shit up from WC3, before the Horde as we know it formed and before the Alliance could in anyway think this Horde wasn't just the Old Horde that would try and kill them again. The old hat guys, who lost a lot in the second war are racist and don't buy any of it. And they almost all ended up dead and no one built statues in their honor. It's hard to even call the WC3 Alliance the same as what exists in WoW. The WoW Alliance and Horde exist due to events of WC3.

The camps were a shit solution for a terrible problem as the remnants of the Alliance didn't have many other options to deal with the forces of an invading army after the war. While the conditions could have and should have been better, should the Alliance have executed the Horde prisoners? Taken the children away from their families and raised them with humans? And considering the man in charge of most the system was planning treason, well it's a great combination for abuse.

And a lot of these shitstains were able to come into power specifically because the Alliance was so wrecked after the second war, they really had no checks and balances and no centralized anything. "This guy has a family name we can rally around: RALLY AROUND IT FASTER!"

Daelin trying to commit genocide in a unprovoked attack,

Yea, and put down with the help of his own daughter. A daughter who would then see her neutral city betrayed by the Horde, to attack an Alliance city, THEN nuke her other city (Alliance aligned) off the face of the Earth, killing her apprentice, and mentor/Hero of the Kirin Tor.

Varian reopening hostilities in wrath and being willing to let yogg saron burn the world even though varimathras and putress weren't acting with sylvannas's approval in launching the attack, cutting off trade for what the orc's jackass friends did rather than anything the orcs did) that people can cite.

Did Varian even know the Wrathgate was caused by a rogue Horde faction? Considering Slyvanas' track record and the shit The Horde put Varian through, I wouldn't expect him to believe it anyways. Sylvy continues to use the blight for any old purpose either way, so it's not like it's something completely out there. And for the record, even the Horde leadership kept all Forsaken on a short leash after that.

Sidenote: Varian was pretty fucking mad at the Horde at the time, also the whole split body magic stuff I still don't know the whole story on. Guy went through some shit and really shouldn't have been put in charge of the Alliance so soon, but he had every claim to the throne so....

And that's one of not even a handful of in-game example (aside from Caverns of Time stuff) you can even find about the Alliance pulling something shady: Varian gets mildly pissed his and Horde men got gassed and assumed it was the lady who is more than willing to backstab anyone at any time. His anger leads to a whole lot of nothing.

Meanwhile, Alliance has had to help the Horde raid two of their own faction capitols due to rogue factions (though Garrosh is hard to pin down since he was the legitimate leader of the Horde). "Rogue" Horde factions have used neutral city portals to stage an attack on Darnassus, cutting a swath through the city (until Blizz chickened out because the even the playerbase thought it went too far), and then nuking another Alliance city off the map.

And the Alliance, during the events of WoW has..... burned down some huts. An action so vile and horrific, the Tauren faction lead said it was a legitimate military target to be attacked. And Greymane let a vendetta get in the way of sanity, but through randomly luck turned out to be completely correct because the new warchief was going to enslave an entire race if we hadn't intervened.

Also no there would TOTALLY be alliance wankers going FUCK THE HORDE KILL THEM ALL. Quite a few are on scrollsoflore and battlenet.

Those guys have to pay for their Blizzcon tickets.

I played horde back when I still played it. Considering that blizz goes out of it's way to make the horde evil one could argue the ALLIANCE is the one getting preferential treatment.

Was Lucas biased against Darth Vader vs Luke even though Vader gets some of the coolest dialog, scenes, costuming? I find this is more Blizzard wanting to write Horde stories and create Horde cutscenes that make them look cool and badass, but thinking nothing about the consequences of what those cutscenes should lead to.

Either way, The Assault on Light's Hope was fun, it felt epic and shitty at the same time. The Ebon Blade has no bullshit: they will do whatever it takes to save Azeroth, even killing their staunchest allies to accomplish it. If it weren't for the backing of the Silver Hand: every DK would be KoS to either faction.

I still think the original idea was pretty stupid, but it (sort of) made sense: Fordring would have been a Hell of a Horseman.

But I want to see some comeuppance for it. I want a throw-down or something between the Silver Hand and the Ebon Blade. It doesn't even have to be violent.

Same with rescuing Koltira from Undercity because at the end of the day: It's Ebon Blade first, Alliance/Horde second. A distant second and I thought this was a perfect way to show that. I would have loved a throw down with someone higher-up on the Forsaken ladder. Like Blightcaller: let me wail on him for a bit, then (if you're Horde) you get a bit of recognition from him from that point on. They already do this with certain Artifacts on certain boss fights and I really like flavour additions. They let me know the developer cares about details.

For me at least the problem isn't that Fenix doesn't like WoW, that's accepted, my problem is theat he seems to think that if he doesn't like something no one can like it and for the exactly same reasons he doesn't like it. Basically (and yes I know I use that word a lot) he thinks his subjective opinion is objective fact that all must agree on rather his personal opinion. Hence the massive pointless rants, essentially he's trying to convince his personal opinion is the only valid opinion that exists and is pissing off us who like different things then him.

Demon Hunter Class Hall has a hottub: best class hall.

I guess only in a WoW thread would talking about mechanics, bugs, and story issues be considered pointless. I've read back through my rants, they are critical (even way too harsh at times), long-winded, but also on topic. You basically just made a "me too" post to score brownie points by saying "FeniX is a big meanie, right guys?" Keep it up, maybe they'll make you a Green Poster.

I don't give a fuck how old any of your are: this is some 12-year-old posting hilarity. At least Yan went from trolling to actually discussing the game... then back to trolling for "likes" by quoting an entire post to make a one word ass-kissing comment, which is.... pathetic. Also... I'm on sd.net and people are telling me I'm too opinionated..... this is. Man, this thread has given me a lot of solid laughs. Almost as much as the voice acting in Val'Sharah:

[Broomstick]

One thing that is annoying is having to re-visit a transmogrifier every single time I update my helm. Used to be you could just set your toon to "don't show helm" but now you have to update to "don't show helm" every single time you get a new one.

Would be funny if they allowed you to set every piece to "don't show" and you could have fully armored people running around in speedos and bikinis!

[Darth Yan]

There's also the fact that Daelin's followers continued to run loose in Durotar till the cataclysm killed them all. Shit like that would NOT have helped.