TF.net-ers "Know" Seismic Charges are Sonic Weapon

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-26 09:45pm

http:// boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11061988&replies=21

Normally we do not get this number of priceless moments is such succession.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-03-26 09:47pm

I'd love to see that, but the link is broken. A little help?

But in reality the argument speaks for itself. The stupidity is swelling in them now.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2003-03-26 09:49pm

I dunno, if you can have sound in space... why not a space-based sonic weapon?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-03-26 10:15pm

Ugh. That actually hurts.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people at TF.N?!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-03-26 10:17pm

Wow, that's horribly stupid. I mean wow. Did any one of them actually graduation pre-school? What a fucking load of shit.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-03-26 10:41pm

Their stupidity hurts my brain.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-03-26 10:42pm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Whew...oh yeah prime example genius...and to think I left there some time ago.

Nice to see it going into the odd and dumb.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-26 11:44pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:I'd love to see that, but the link is broken. A little help?

But in reality the argument speaks for itself. The stupidity is swelling in them now.

Remove the space. Sorry, habit.

And no direct linking.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-03-27 12:19am

And, not that it matters, those fuckers should realize that the planar explosion means it would be extremely easy for vong ships to get out of the way. You would have to have a minefield full of those things all going off at once to be sure to take out a bunch.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-03-27 12:39am

jaya02 wrote:I don't see how the voids could eat up a seismic charge. I was under the impressiong that seismic charges defied gravity in space and uses sound pressure, and that's why the voids would be able to eat them up, since they rely on gravity.

JESUS CHRIST! When will the stupidity stop?

Now. Pay close attention.

Chocobo wrote: Bad:
Obi-Wan chases Jango Fett (Boba's father) to the ringed planet Geonosis pictured below). They dogfight through the thick rings, dodging huge tumbling boulders. Trying to kill Obi-Wan, Jango Fett deploys "seismic charges". When they explode, a huge shock wave of sound is created, which expands violently outward. Obi-Wan manages to escape by hiding on the surface of one of the rocks.

Good:
We know ringed planets exist, of course; four planets in our own solar system have them. However, the biggest of the particles in Saturn's rings, for example, are only a few meters in size. Over a long time, collisions between the chunks of ice have broken them up, making them smaller. Given the number and density of the rocks in the Geonosian rings, they should have ground themselves to dust a long time before. Really big rocks, like the one Obi-Wan actually flies his ship through (and how does an asteroidal body like that get a long tunnel drilled though it?) shouldn't last very long in such a system. They're a big target, and the first to get hit.

Then there is the matter of the seismic charges. In space, as it is said, no one can hear you scream. Without air, this is literally true: sound needs a medium (like air, water or rock) through which to travel. A vacuum, by definition, is the lack of such a medium, so sound cannot travel in space. I'll accept that movies depict ships making sounds as they move through space, since almost every movie does it, and we, the viewing audience, are used to hearing sounds as things move past us. But I have my limits. The seismic charge, based on sound, cannot work.

Now, I expect Star Wars purists will want to argue this point with me, making claims about how the seismic charges use a subspace blast or some such thing (shades of the Kessel run!). However, I'm not buying it. When the charges explode, we see the flash, but hear nothing for several seconds. Then, BOOM! Since sound travels slower than light, we see the flash immediately, but must wait a few seconds for the sound wave to reach us (which is why we see lightning before we hear thunder). So clearly Lucas is implying that the charges are sonic. In space, that just won't work.

[Note added May 30, 2002: As I expected, the emails have flooded in. There have been many interesting points raised, from the charges vaporizing the asetroids (and so we see the debris expanding) to us just seeing the shock wave itself. Either way, I'm just not buying it! The sound effect accompanying the shock wave is not like that of a blast; it has a more resonant, bell-like quality. Clearly, Lucas was implying something more than just a simple explosion here. And calling it a seismic charge also implies something different than a mine or a missile. So I'm sticking by my guns, haha, and throwing the flag on this one.]

Followed by this:

jaya02 wrote:See, Kier? The article Chocobo posted proves I was right! Seismic charges use sound!

DAMN these two are complete morons.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-03-27 12:44am

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yes, a sonic weapon in the VACUUM of space.

Oh jeebus...this still is too much, damn...now I can go to sleep happy.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-03-27 12:45am

Did Chocobo indicate that he got that evaluation from the Bad Astronomer? Or did he pass it off as his own?

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2003-03-27 01:06am

Man, I'm almost getting high on this stuff.

Lord_Xerxes · Post by **Lord_Xerxes** » 2003-03-27 01:30am

This is why I stopped going to the TF.net forums.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-03-27 09:11am

Phil Plait wrote:Then there is the matter of the seismic charges. In space, as it is said, no one can hear you scream. Without air, this is literally true: sound needs a medium (like air, water or rock) through which to travel. A vacuum, by definition, is the lack of such a medium, so sound cannot travel in space. I'll accept that movies depict ships making sounds as they move through space, since almost every movie does it, and we, the viewing audience, are used to hearing sounds as things move past us. But I have my limits. The seismic charge, based on sound, cannot work.

Now, I expect Star Wars purists will want to argue this point with me, making claims about how the seismic charges use a subspace blast or some such thing (shades of the Kessel run!). However, I'm not buying it. When the charges explode, we see the flash, but hear nothing for several seconds. Then, BOOM! Since sound travels slower than light, we see the flash immediately, but must wait a few seconds for the sound wave to reach us (which is why we see lightning before we hear thunder). So clearly Lucas is implying that the charges are sonic. In space, that just won't work.

[Note added May 30, 2002: As I expected, the emails have flooded in. There have been many interesting points raised, from the charges vaporizing the asetroids (and so we see the debris expanding) to us just seeing the shock wave itself. Either way, I'm just not buying it! The sound effect accompanying the shock wave is not like that of a blast; it has a more resonant, bell-like quality. Clearly, Lucas was implying something more than just a simple explosion here. And calling it a seismic charge also implies something different than a mine or a missile. So I'm sticking by my guns, haha, and throwing the flag on this one.]

Y'know, someone should probably e-mail The Bad Astronomer, pointing out that we hear the sound before the shockwave hits us... initial burst doesn't produce any sound, but the moment the actual blast starts, we hear sound. If it was intended to be a sound-based weapon, we shouldn't hear the sound until the shockwave hits us. As is, the "sound" travels faster than the damaging part. IOW, not a sound-based weapon.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-03-28 10:55am

Send it in, he'll read it, even if he doesn't agree. ; )

TrekWarsie · Post by **TrekWarsie** » 2003-03-28 12:43pm

Have they taken basic Physics? Sound needs a medium to travel through, and there is no air in space. Without a medium, there cannot be any sound in space. I knew this stuff when I was only ten years old.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-03-28 02:03pm

And that's why Star Wars (and most of sci fi) is impossible... because they show us sound in space!

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-28 05:25pm

The usual explanation for sounds is that onboard sensors detect weapons fire and project a sound inside the ship to enhance situational awareness.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2003-03-28 05:31pm

Kurgan wrote:And that's why Star Wars (and most of sci fi) is impossible... because they show us sound in space!

Actually in a comic Novel which is some form of Quasi-Canon, AHN I believe Tarkin states that the ships make the sounds too simulate battle. It's astrectching it but that is more logical then soumnd traveling through space. Basically what Phogn stated. I believe Mr. Saxton has the frame of Tarkin's statement.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-03-28 10:05pm

phongn wrote:The usual explanation for sounds is that onboard sensors detect weapons fire and project a sound inside the ship to enhance situational awareness.

This is canon. From one of the radio dramas, IIRC.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2003-03-28 10:40pm

Well in the NJO IIRC there was something about hearing blasts from a sound intereptor or something.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-03-29 08:40pm

Lol... Phil Plait mentioned this on his page too.

It's nice that they tried to explain it, but the fact is in sci fi we see shots OUTSIDE ships and still hear the sounds, even when its clearly not the POV from inside a ship (or are we to assume that there's a "God" ship that's invisible video taping the whole thing from inside its own omniscient ship?

I can understand hearing the hull rattle or something while inside a ship that's being pummeled, but out in space you shouldn't hear the whine of TIE Fighter engines (so much for "battle feedback" or laser blasts).

Its far easier to just admit that sounds in space are a SFX physics brain bug, because movie-makers assume that people expect it from watching war movies (and other "terrestrial" battles). After all, we've never witnessed a real "space battle."

So battles appear like they're on earth in the sky or on the ocean.

We're thrown tons of cliches such as ships facing each other "rightside up," "banking turns," "all stop" nonesense, sounds in space, huge flaming fireball explosions, "BSRs" "time dilation and FTL travel," "artificial gravity generators that never give out" and all that... and don't forget all the sci fi where people literally "explode" like balloons in the vacuum of space (Star Wars isn't guilty of this... well, except in the EU... ex the Jabba the Hutt comics).

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-03-30 03:10pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:http:// boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=11061988&replies=21

Normally we do not get this number of priceless moments is such succession.

Sonic weapons? Oy, vey!

I'd heard (hahaha!) that before, but it makes no sense. Why would a sonic weapon be visible? How could it have a planar "ring" effect? Do they think the film supports this in any way?

That cool "BWWWWN!" noise it makes shortly after detonation is proof of jack squat; photorps, for instance, make noises when they hit stuff, as do most other weapons in sci-fi. Are they all sonic weapons too?

Besides, why do they even care what sort of weapon it is? Its effects are devastating. Kenobi hauled ass away from them because they're devastating. End of story.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-03-30 05:05pm

How the mighty have fallen. I would not be surprised if fundies wreaked havoc on the boards.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

TF.net-ers "Know" Seismic Charges are Sonic Weapon

TF.net-ers "Know" Seismic Charges are Sonic Weapon

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