Harry Dresden vs Lord Voldemort.

[Crazedwraith]

I mean in the sense that Mab won't try to kill Voldemort personally. She'll go after him via catspaws.

I get that's what you are saying but you don't get what I am: it might be catspaws, but it will be Winter Faerie catspaws. Maniac, bloodthirsty, ruthless faries that aren't afraid of using guns and are actually very, very skilled at anti-magic. Mab isn't the type to go and beat someone who offends her with a stick. She probably can't even do that. She is going to manipulate things (as typical of faeries) so that Voldemort is going to be very, very sorry or hurt or even killed.

Faeries can't kill Voldemort directly. He's a mortal and not beholden to any of the faerie courts. Think Murphy vs the chlorofiend. It's not allowed to attack her.

Though 'Small Favour's train attack seems to contradict that rather.

[The Romulan Republic]

I mean in the sense that Mab won't try to kill Voldemort personally. She'll go after him via catspaws.

I get that's what you are saying but you don't get what I am: it might be catspaws, but it will be Winter Faerie catspaws. Maniac, bloodthirsty, ruthless faries that aren't afraid of using guns and are actually very, very skilled at anti-magic. Mab isn't the type to go and beat someone who offends her with a stick. She probably can't even do that. She is going to manipulate things (as typical of faeries) so that Voldemort is going to be very, very sorry or hurt or even killed.

Faeries can't kill Voldemort directly. He's a mortal and not beholden to any of the faerie courts. Think Murphy vs the chlorofiend. It's not allowed to attack her.

Though 'Small Favour's train attack seems to contradict that rather.

Eh, even if you count Voldemort as a mortal, I thought the way it worked was that she couldn't go after mortals directly unless they had some sort of obligation to her. If she could trick Voldemort into being in her debt somehow...

And of course, if Potterverse wizards operate under the same rules as mortal Dresden Files wizards in this scenario, then they're pretty much universally guilty of violating the Laws of Magic (see my OP).

But yes, their are a lot of constraints on how the fae can use their power in The Dresden Files. Can't directly go after mortals unless the mortals have a tie to the Courts. Can't tell a lie/break their word. And like pretty much all the major supernatural players, bound by the terms of the Unseelie Accords.

Plus another wrinkle I hadn't thought of: when one Court acts, the other opposes it. So if Mab moves against Voldemort, Summer will probably move to assist him in some way.

Not sure where the train attack fits in. Probably a loophole along the lines of Mab not directly ordering the Hobbs to attack mortals, just sending them to the train station and letting them do what they do- clearly not all creatures of the Never Never are bound by an inability to attack mortals.

Heh. Dresden Files vs. scenarios always seem to end up in hashing out supernatural legal minutia and technicalities. Its a particularly tricky 'verse that way.

I mean in the sense that Mab won't try to kill Voldemort personally. She'll go after him via catspaws.

I get that's what you are saying but you don't get what I am: it might be catspaws, but it will be Winter Faerie catspaws. Maniac, bloodthirsty, ruthless faries that aren't afraid of using guns and are actually very, very skilled at anti-magic. Mab isn't the type to go and beat someone who offends her with a stick. She probably can't even do that. She is going to manipulate things (as typical of faeries) so that Voldemort is going to be very, very sorry or hurt or even killed.

Granted.

Although her foremost catspaw for something like this is probably going to be... the Winter Knight. So it falls on Harry primarily anyway.

Of course, that's not to say that she won't pull strings behind the scenes to help him out here and their, as she did in Skin Game.

However, the other factor is that Mab is immortal, so even if Harry died before he could finish the job, she could just send the next Knight, or another minion, and keep plotting for a hundred years until she got her revenge.

[Terralthra]

As to Voldemort outclassing Harry, I'd argue that he probably does in certain fields where Potterverse magic excels (including transportation, stealth, and mental influence), but in direct combat- only if he can use AK through Dresden's shields, and then its likely a moot point because a dead Dresden won't be calling in backup.

Edits: Forgot transfiguration. Voldemort can literally animate an army of minions if he wishes, most likely. Although that doesn't really seem his style. Voldemort's approach to combat is actually pretty crude. He's evidently fast and has raw power, but he doesn't use much besides apparating and Unforgivable Curses (mostly AK spam) in the books.

Voldemort will probably be better at transportation (barring the Ways), and maybe some elements of stealth, and definitely mental influence, but that's because Harry sucks at those, not because Dresdenverse does. Harry is expliclitly bad at veils, where his apprentice is amazing at them, better than anyone in the Potterverse that I've seen. Mental influence is against the Laws of Magic, but again, the warlocks who specialize in them are amazing at them.

[Zixinus]

About fairies and mortal involvement. I have two theories:

First fairies can harm mortals on behalf of mortal authority. Harry did this with Tut-tut, making them "belong" to Harry. Their actions were not held against the fairies but against Harry.
So the train and the hobs were there because some of them were shock-troops to soften up the Archive. Probably while she is busy handling them, a Nicklehead would have jumped her or seperate her from Kinkaid (which the idiots didn't even try to do). The well-armed and armored hobs were probably what did this. The more primitive, less equipped hobs were just along for the ride. Since they were acting on Nick's behalf and on Nick's will, the hobs could kill.

The more likely explanation is that not hurting mortals isn't a thing tied to fairies but being the Winter/Summer Lady and Queen. Or something tied to Winter/Summer itself (I can't remember whether a member of either court could kill a mortal). Probably as some sort of cosmic safeguard to limit their power against mortals. So only mortals who have involved themselves can get suckered in. Wild faries like the Wild Hunt can kill anyone they want if they get the opportunity. This would make sense during the Wallmart attack, as it was the Summer Lady's direct involvement and the plant monster (pardon, photophage) was to its willl.
So the hobs, once they got to the train station, could kill whoever they wanted because they were acting on Nick's behalf.

Voldemort will probably be better at transportation (barring the Ways), and maybe some elements of stealth, and definitely mental influence, but that's because Harry sucks at those, not because Dresdenverse does.

This is where Voldemort could have an advantage in scenario three. Voldemort can apparate and (IIRC, I don't remember much about his character) he might be willing to run away and do everything to avoid confronting Harry directly. What Voldemort needs to do is a sucker-punch: use magic in a way Harry does not expect or even knows to exist, then hit him while he'd down. Of course, Voldemort is going to do the villain-thing where he has to prove himself that he isn't just able to kill Harry but Harry is somehow less because he opposes him.

[The Romulan Republic]

As to Voldemort outclassing Harry, I'd argue that he probably does in certain fields where Potterverse magic excels (including transportation, stealth, and mental influence), but in direct combat- only if he can use AK through Dresden's shields, and then its likely a moot point because a dead Dresden won't be calling in backup.

Edits: Forgot transfiguration. Voldemort can literally animate an army of minions if he wishes, most likely. Although that doesn't really seem his style. Voldemort's approach to combat is actually pretty crude. He's evidently fast and has raw power, but he doesn't use much besides apparating and Unforgivable Curses (mostly AK spam) in the books.

Voldemort will probably be better at transportation (barring the Ways), and maybe some elements of stealth, and definitely mental influence, but that's because Harry sucks at those, not because Dresdenverse does. Harry is expliclitly bad at veils, where his apprentice is amazing at them, better than anyone in the Potterverse that I've seen. Mental influence is against the Laws of Magic, but again, the warlocks who specialize in them are amazing at them.

The Dresdenverse is not generally weak at stealth or mental manipulation, but I don't think we've seen anything rivalling the ease and flexibility of Potterverse transfiguration, nor am I aware of any means of transport as fast, flexible, and reliable as apparition or a Portkey, or even the Flu network.

While Dresdenverse magic is in no way lacking in versatility, in a way, this nonetheless reminds me of blasters vs. phasers. Blasters (Dresden magic) have more combat power, while phasers (Potter magic) are more versatile in their uses, being tools as much as weapons. Potterverse wizards and witches rely on magic for pretty much everything, so their's a lot of very practical, utilitarian stuff. Most of the lower end magic also seems to come without much in the way of real risk or cost, as discussed in this thread:

https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic ... 2&t=165506

Of course, it may be that we haven't seen as much of the non-combat and espionage applications of Dresden magic (and we know their are some) simply because Dresden is the POV character for most of the story and he happens to specialize in combat and tracking magic to an extent, and be employed as a P.I./enforcer.

[The Romulan Republic]

About fairies and mortal involvement. I have two theories:

First fairies can harm mortals on behalf of mortal authority. Harry did this with Tut-tut, making them "belong" to Harry. Their actions were not held against the fairies but against Harry.
So the train and the hobs were there because some of them were shock-troops to soften up the Archive. Probably while she is busy handling them, a Nicklehead would have jumped her or seperate her from Kinkaid (which the idiots didn't even try to do). The well-armed and armored hobs were probably what did this. The more primitive, less equipped hobs were just along for the ride. Since they were acting on Nick's behalf and on Nick's will, the hobs could kill.

The more likely explanation is that not hurting mortals isn't a thing tied to fairies but being the Winter/Summer Lady and Queen. Or something tied to Winter/Summer itself (I can't remember whether a member of either court could kill a mortal). Probably as some sort of cosmic safeguard to limit their power against mortals. So only mortals who have involved themselves can get suckered in. Wild faries like the Wild Hunt can kill anyone they want if they get the opportunity. This would make sense during the Wallmart attack, as it was the Summer Lady's direct involvement and the plant monster (pardon, photophage) was to its willl.
So the hobs, once they got to the train station, could kill whoever they wanted because they were acting on Nick's behalf.

I thought that they were working for Mab, not Nicodemus (I think to get the Archive before Nicodemus could), though that may have just been Harry's incorrect conclusion. I'd need to read Small Favour again.

But yeah, we know faries can attack mortals if employed by a mortal to do so, and again, their are loads of things in the Never Never that prey on humans all the time.

This is where Voldemort could have an advantage in scenario three. Voldemort can apparate and (IIRC, I don't remember much about his character) he might be willing to run away and do everything to avoid confronting Harry directly. What Voldemort needs to do is a sucker-punch: use magic in a way Harry does not expect or even knows to exist, then hit him while he'd down. Of course, Voldemort is going to do the villain-thing where he has to prove himself that he isn't just able to kill Harry but Harry is somehow less because he opposes him.

Exactly.

Voldemort's biggest weakness is his own glaring character flaws and mental instability. And this was pretty clearly by design. He has a lot of power, and a certain kind of intelligence, but under all of that he's a rather pathetic person.

That said, Voldemort does not feel a compulsive need to vanquish all of his opponents personally. Many lesser adversaries he simply had his Death Eaters or other lackies kill. Storm Front Harry would likely fall into that category, baring a scenario like the one I described, where they just happen to run into each other. At least until he did enough damage to warrant more attention, because let's face it, Harry Dresden is like a one-man wrecking ball. Skin Game Harry, on the other hand, is formidable enough, and well-recognized enough as such in-universe, that Voldemort might feel that he warranted personal attention, but even then, Voldemort is willing to work through catspaws too. After Harry Potter, Dumbledore was his biggest adversary, and probably the only foe he ever had who matched him in magical capability and long-term plotting, and he outright avoided any one on one fight with Dumbledore (their duel in Order of the Phoenix was clearly not planned on Voldemort's part). Instead, he sent Malfoy and Snape to assassinate Dumbledore.

Harry Potter was a special case because he was prophesied to be the only who could defeat Voldemort (and vice versa) and actually crippled him, so Voldemort a) needed to prove his strength and b) believed (or at least, this is heavily implied) that he was destined to face Potter one on one. In fact, didn't Dumbledore pretty much say at one point that the prophecy was only true because Voldemort believed it was? Its a classic self-fullfilling prophecy.

Perhaps its also worse because Potter was just a child- their's less shame in avoiding a duel with the greatest wizard of the age, who took down a previous legendary Dark Lord, than in avoiding a duel with a teenage boy, or getting ones' ass kicked by a teenage boy.

[Gaidin]

While Dresdenverse magic is in no way lacking in versatility, in a way, this nonetheless reminds me of blasters vs. phasers. Blasters (Dresden magic) have more combat power, while phasers (Potter magic) are more versatile in their uses, being tools as much as weapons. Potterverse wizards and witches rely on magic for pretty much everything, so their's a lot of very practical, utilitarian stuff. Most of the lower end magic also seems to come without much in the way of real risk or cost, as discussed in this thread:

Be careful with the stereotypes. You're steering straight into Dresdenverse's Thaumaturgy vs Evocation. Forget other magics Dresdenverse may have like Psychomancy.

[The Romulan Republic]

Following on from my last post, Voldemort's opponents, and his likely reactions to them, seem to fall into four categories:

1. Not worth his personal attention, unless he feels like indulging his sadism. Random Muggles, low-level Ministry wizards, etc. They'll have Death Eaters or more lowly lackies sent after them if they become a problem. Again, Storm Front Dresden would likely fall here initially in Voldemort's estimation, though taking out whoever is sent after him, or engaging Voldemort personally and surviving, would likely bump him up to category two.

2. Serious opponent, requiring personal attention. This is implied to have included Lily and James and the Longbottoms during the First War (they both faced Voldemort three times and escaped, as per the prophecy), and likely included Amelia Bones and Mad-Eye Moody during the Second War. Skin Game Dresden would likely fall into this category or category three, from Voldemort's perspective.

3. Opponent who represents an actual threat in a duel. Direct confrontation avoided, assassinated through proxies. Ie Dumbledore.

4. "I have to fight them because prophecy/magic says so", i.e. Harry Potter. Snape's murder would also fall here, because Voldemort believed that he had to kill him to get mastery of the Elder Wand.