Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

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Jordie
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Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Jordie »

ABC.
Same-sex marriage: Anglican Church leaders accuse Sydney Archbishop of silencing supporters
Exclusive by Julia Baird
Updated Wed Oct 12 23:14:25 EST 2016
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Anglican Archbishop of Sydney Glenn Davies
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Glenn Davies refused to renew Keith Mascord's licence due to theological differences Anglican Church

In the wake of the likely failure of the plebiscite bill, a group of 68 priests and church leaders across Australia have signed a petition urging the Archbishop of Sydney to allow "free and open debate" about same-sex marriage within his church.
Key points:

Archbishop refuses to provide priest licence if he continued to discuss same-sex marriage
Church leaders unite against Archbishop, calling for open debate
Church says priest rejects 'authority of the Bible'

The move — unprecedented within the Anglican church — comes after the Sydney Archbishop, Glenn Davies, refused to renew the licence of a Sydney priest, Keith Mascord, due to theological differences, particularly his support for same-sex marriage.

Reverend Mascord was offered the opportunity to continue to minister to his own congregation at Dulwich Hill, with the proviso that he not preach in favour of same-sex marriage — he refused.

On Sunday, Archbishop Davies issued a statement which said: "Because of his rejection of the authority of the Bible and the doctrine of Christ (as received by the Anglican Church), the Archbishop formed the view that it is not appropriate for Dr Mascord to hold a licence to preach in the Diocese of Sydney."

In their statement, the Anglican leaders asked the Sydney Archbishop to reconsider their decision.

They argued that the national and global Anglican view was to accept that Anglicans could disagree on the question of marriage equality.
Anglicans hold 'variety of positions' on same-sex marriage

The signatories, who include the Dean of Brisbane Cathedral, the Very Reverend Peter Catt, and Reverend Rod Bower from the parish of Gosford, wrote: "In September, the Primate (or head) of the Anglican Church in Australia, Dr Philip Freier, wrote to the Church's Bishops on a plebiscite."

"He affirmed the traditional view of marriage, but also observed that Anglicans hold 'a variety of positions in good conscience' on marriage equality," they wrote.

"This reflects the global Anglican view. The 1998 Lambeth Report on Human Sexuality stated that Bishops, clergy and laypeople are 'not of one mind about homosexuality'.

"Anglicans accept that there is room for a traditional view while recognising that some, in good faith, hold different views, or are still forming an opinion."

The petitioners argued the decision to delicense a member of the clergy who had advocated for same sex marriage had "deeply shaken" the church.

"For most clergy, delicencing means losing job, income, accommodation, peer networks and spiritual community," the petition read.

They also pointed to the fact that Sydney Anglicans had "called for a publicly-funded plebiscite to promote respectful and genuine debate".

The priests, chaplains, deans and deacons from a range of parishes continued: "If they won't allow their own clergy freedom to speak, how can their representation have integrity?

"How can they ask for public money for a position that needs coercive support?

"How does their plea for a plebiscite fit with suppressing internal debate?"
Church leaders 'reluctant' to criticise another diocese

Muriel Porter, a church historian, member of the General Synod and signatory to the petition, said the action taken by the 58 church leaders was highly unusual.

"Generally reluctant to openly criticise another diocese and particularly a powerful diocese like Sydney, clergy and lay church leaders are now saying that enough is enough," she said.

"They are tired of the bullying, especially when it comes to the issue of human sexuality."

Dr Porter, a long time critic of the more traditional Sydney Diocese, and author of Sydney Anglicans and the Threat to World Anglicanism: The Sydney Experiment, said: "For too long, moderate Anglicans have remained silent in the face of such heavy-handed tactics."

"Perhaps it signals a new determination to speak up in support of LGBTI people who have been so appallingly treated by the Christian Church," she said.

Some priests told the ABC they wished to put their names to the petition but were either worried about retribution or wished to approach the Archbishop personally.

On reading the petition, Reverend Mascord said: "Having the freedom to be honest and up-front about my beliefs is something I value highly."

"I long for the day when that freedom will be extended to my clerical and lay friends who are presently fearful that if they express their private beliefs they will most certainly be punished," he said.

Archbishop rejects restricting freedom of speech

On Monday, a spokesman for Archbishop Davies said Reverend Mascord's licence had been lapsed for three years and repeated that the Archbishop's decision was based fundamentally on Reverend Mascord's view of Jesus and the Bible.
Where to from here?
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The spokesman also said Archbishop Davies had not attempted to seek to restrict Reverend Mascord's right to speak.

The Archbishop said in a statement sent to the ABC: "At his ordination, Dr [Reverend] Mascord vowed that he was 'ready to drive away all false and strange doctrines that are contrary to God's word'."

"He now describes himself as a 'dissenting Christian', holding that the Bible 'is an ancient text, pregnant with ancient assumptions and beliefs, many of which we no longer reasonably hold' and on this basis calls on Christians to rethink, among other things 'the assumptions and beliefs which underlie Biblical discomfort with same-sex activity'," the statement read.

"Because of his rejection of the authority of the Bible and the doctrine of Christ (as received by the Anglican Church), I formed the view that it was not appropriate for any clergyman who held such views to hold a general licence in our Diocese."
Davies 'merely expressed personal preference'

Archbishop Davies also said he had not sought to restrict Reverend Mascord's freedom of speech, as he had only made stipulations that would accompany an Anglican licence to teach in a parish.

Outside of that, he said "I made no stipulations, and merely expressed my personal preference, informing Dr [Reverend] Mascord: 'I would, of course, prefer you not to teach contrary to our received doctrine whenever and wherever you teach in non-Anglican settings, as you will still be perceived as an Anglican clergyman'".

The ABC has obtained a copy of the letter from the Archbishop to Reverend Mascord, dated August 30, 2016, in which he tells him his licence will not be reviewed.

In it the Archbishop clearly states that he will give Reverend Mascord a limited licence to minister in his parish but only if he will desist from teaching "specifically on the issue of same-sex relationships".

The Archbishop's offer still stands.
Full statement regarding Keith Mascord:
Few issues have thrust Christian beliefs into the arena of public law and policy as has the debate over marriage, and related plebiscite.

In September, the Primate (or head) of the Anglican Church in Australia, Dr Philip Freier, wrote to the Church's Bishops on a plebiscite.

He affirmed the traditional view of marriage, but also observed that Anglicans hold 'a variety of positions in good conscience' on marriage equality.

This reflects the global Anglican view.

The 1998 Lambeth Report on Human Sexuality stated that Bishops, clergy and laypeople are 'not of one mind about homosexuality'.

Anglicans accept that there is room for a traditional view while recognising that some, in good faith, hold different views, or are still forming an opinion.

This general Anglican consensus has been deeply shaken by the decision of Sydney Anglican leaders to 'de-license' (or, not renew) one of their clergy, Rev Dr Keith Mascord, in relation to his views on marriage.

For most clergy, delicencing means losing job, income, accommodation, peer networks and spiritual community.

Dr [Reverend] Mascord has advocated for marriage equality respectfully and graciously.

For this, he was handed an ultimatum: be silent or be de-licenced. He refused to accept this gag.

In such circumstances, the call for free and open debate lacks credibility.

This is ironic as Sydney Anglican leaders, including those who took this action, have called for a publicly funded plebiscite to promote respectful and genuine debate.

Yet if they won't allow their own clergy freedom to speak, how can their representation have integrity?

How can they ask for public money for a position that needs coercive support?

How does their plea for a plebiscite fit with suppressing internal debate?

The episode is as difficult to reconcile with the Anglican Primate's position as it is with freedom of conscience and speech generally.

We hope that Sydney Anglican leaders will act, not just speak, to remedy the situation.
I once thought the Anglican Church wasn't as ass-backwards stupid as the Catholic or Evangelicals thanks to a few well publicized progressive branches like Gosford which is generally critical of the regressive right (hyuk hyuk). But no, it's just as stupid, just not as loud.

This: Nothing from the free speech absolutist, anti-feminist/SJW shitlords. Anywhere.
A nobody feminist or "SJW" writes an article or makes a video critical of the level of sexism, racism and homophobia in their community: "OH NO THE CULTURAL MARXISM,", "Stop social engineering!" :roll:
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Broomstick »

The thing is, Christianity has a Holy Book called the Bible, and while the Bible does contradict itself in quite a few places I do not recall anywhere in that collection of writings any recognition of what we would call a same-sex marriage. Polygamy, yes, same-sex marriage no. There is quite a bit of condemnation of homosexual sex, at least for men. So I'm not sure how you can say SSM is compatible Christian doctrine. That doesn't mean Christians have to be anti-SSM or homosexuality for people outside the church, but I don't see how it fits in church doctrine.
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Elheru Aran »

Well, of course the "anti-SJW's" aren't going to speak out against an internal Church matter, especially one that probably falls broadly along the lines of what they believe/agree with (not being in favor of gay marriage). Yes, it's somewhat hypocritical, but you don't need to expect that particular bunch to be particularly honest.

The fact of the matter is I'm not sure why anybody should expect a large religious organization to be particularly liberal within its ranks. This is non-news.
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Grumman »

You may not realise this, Jordie, but there are seven billion people in the world. Not commenting on the actions of one in particular is not the same as condoning their actions.
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Zaune »

Broomstick wrote:The thing is, Christianity has a Holy Book called the Bible, and while the Bible does contradict itself in quite a few places I do not recall anywhere in that collection of writings any recognition of what we would call a same-sex marriage. Polygamy, yes, same-sex marriage no. There is quite a bit of condemnation of homosexual sex, at least for men. So I'm not sure how you can say SSM is compatible Christian doctrine. That doesn't mean Christians have to be anti-SSM or homosexuality for people outside the church, but I don't see how it fits in church doctrine.
What's wrong with the time-honoured method of quietly glossing over the problematic bits and hoping nobody bothers to read the thing all the way through?
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Elheru Aran »

Zaune wrote:
Broomstick wrote:The thing is, Christianity has a Holy Book called the Bible, and while the Bible does contradict itself in quite a few places I do not recall anywhere in that collection of writings any recognition of what we would call a same-sex marriage. Polygamy, yes, same-sex marriage no. There is quite a bit of condemnation of homosexual sex, at least for men. So I'm not sure how you can say SSM is compatible Christian doctrine. That doesn't mean Christians have to be anti-SSM or homosexuality for people outside the church, but I don't see how it fits in church doctrine.
What's wrong with the time-honoured method of quietly glossing over the problematic bits and hoping nobody bothers to read the thing all the way through?
Essentially the way my church does it, though they're more open about the fact that some parts are problematic. A couple years ago, when the Supreme Court gave a thumbs-up to gay marriage, the note the church emailed around basically came down to "well, we kinda don't agree with that, but be cool anyway, it hurts nobody to be nice".
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by mr friendly guy »

Anti SJWs are as hypocritical as SJWs? Say it ain't so. Seriously before the term safe spaces came to prominence, right wingers were all for safe spaces, by kicking people out of the country. Which is they needed a much bigger safe space than SJWs who only want some places on university.

Just a few months ago after I humiliated some dumbass on youtube, he responded with "when Trump gets in power, we're going to kick you out of the country." :D The fact that most people don't actually live in the US was a hard concept for him to grasp, which allowed me to humiliate that guy so much he started accusing me of trolling, even though he came up with words like "did we trigger you SJWs." Which just goes to show some people have a lack of self awareness, bitching some SJWs yet displaying the same need for a safe space.

Another prominent example of their hypocrisy is again displayed in my youtube exchange. When feminists demand video games cater to their sensibility, anti SJWs go "free market," wah wah wah. I actually hold a more nuance view than that, which no doubt gets both sides angry with me with idiots using golden mean fallacy accusations. But going on, when people complain that the Hollywood movie market caters to the Chinese audience and we don't like what they are doing, then insert racist statements, none of the anti SJWs jump in shouting "free market." I guess racism is more important to some of these guys than the free market.

Of course, SJWs have their own share of hypocrisy, ie muted criticism of Islam in regards to the treatment of women.

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In regards to Biblical teaching, well I am going to borrow a line from Col Crackpot a few years ago. The Bible did make statements about men shouldn't lie with men the same way they lie with women......so unless a man has a vagina, its all ok. Unless you are into anal, then that might be a problem. But then again, the Lord will discover their secret parts (Isaiah 3:17) implying that he doesn't know about it yet. LOL.
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by NecronLord »

The simple answer to this is that it's Australia? Most 'social justice warriors' seem to be very much concerned with the United States.
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Joun_Lord »

mr friendly guy wrote:The fact that most people don't actually live in the US
Thats unpossible, you lie like some lying liar!! The internet is an American invention, controlled by America, and fully in America. There is no way anyone who isn't American could get on, they'd.....they'd have to switch it off or something if that happened!!!! There is a switch in the Oval Office where they can do that you know, a big switch that says Internet Off and Internet On.

No but really the problem with any person who holds an extreme position is their entire worldview is incredibly narrow. Some Trump supporting "anti-SJW" idiot is of course going to have an incredibly narrow mindset, will be unable or unwilling to grasp that the world is bigger then just the US.

Thats not to say the opposing force is any better. SJWs are just as narrow in their mindset, though I guess its a broad narrowness. They understand their is more to the world the America but tend to forget their is anyone but urban dwellers in 1st world countries and poor unfortunate souls in 3rd world countries who need all the help that bitching on the internet can provide.

The fact that they consider each other enemies for having a difference of opinion, that they are against each other rather then their positions, shows they are rather deluded and fairly extreme. The anti-SJWs probably aren't against shit like safe spaces and 10 billion gender pronouns really themselves, they are against that shit because damn dirty SJWs are for them.

Of course this isn't limited to SJWs and their opposites (anti-social injustice warriors?). Politics, atleast politics in my own narrow American centric worldview, certainly do the same damn shit. If a Republican is for something then Democrats have to be against it, if a Democrat is for something then Republicans are against it.
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Simon_Jester »

Zaune wrote:
Broomstick wrote:The thing is, Christianity has a Holy Book called the Bible, and while the Bible does contradict itself in quite a few places I do not recall anywhere in that collection of writings any recognition of what we would call a same-sex marriage. Polygamy, yes, same-sex marriage no. There is quite a bit of condemnation of homosexual sex, at least for men. So I'm not sure how you can say SSM is compatible Christian doctrine. That doesn't mean Christians have to be anti-SSM or homosexuality for people outside the church, but I don't see how it fits in church doctrine.
What's wrong with the time-honoured method of quietly glossing over the problematic bits and hoping nobody bothers to read the thing all the way through?
Doctrine is what you teach the actual leadership figures (ministers, etc.) of the religion, though. And they have to have at least READ the book. Which means you need to at least have explanations for every part of the text, even if they don't have to be good explanations.
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Balrog »

Grumman wrote:You may not realise this, Jordie, but there are seven billion people in the world. Not commenting on the actions of one in particular is not the same as condoning their actions.
Yeah, while admirable not everyone has the time and/or inclination to scroll through news feeds and track down every story to try and prove a point.
Elheru Aran wrote:Well, of course the "anti-SJW's" aren't going to speak out against an internal Church matter, especially one that probably falls broadly along the lines of what they believe/agree with (not being in favor of gay marriage). Yes, it's somewhat hypocritical, but you don't need to expect that particular bunch to be particularly honest.

The fact of the matter is I'm not sure why anybody should expect a large religious organization to be particularly liberal within its ranks. This is non-news.
I know you're trying to be snarky with this, but you hit the nail on the head: it's an internal Church matter. If for example the rules of the club say "You must profess a belief in XYZ" and you do not profess those beliefs, you don't get to be in the club. Thanks to things like freedom of association you can leave the club without worrying you'll be burned at the stake or have your head chopped off and start a new one for yourself and any other members who think like you (though in this case that tends to lead to wars of religion. The problem in these situations usually comes about when a group tries for force its beliefs on the rest of society, but that's not what's happening here.

Meanwhile, the SJWs have pressured for the successful cancellation of 'Aida' at the University of Bristol because of "cultural appropriation." I suppose if anyone ever tries to put on "Macbeth" they better make sure they have only Scottish actors in their stable. But no worries, it's not like these college students are bound for positions of leadership in the future where they can really spread the good word....
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Re: Sydney Anglican Archbishop censors priest for supporting SSM. Anti-SJWs: silence.

Post by Flagg »

Most Abrahamite Religious institutions with weekly reindoctrination "services" are absolute pieces of shit that society would be better off without? Say it ain't so.
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