How strong is the armor on a Xeelee nightfighter?

[Lord Revan]

Something to remember about scientific method is that it is inherently fair, as long as person doing the calculations is honest and the data is good there's little room to play favorites, the results are what they are. the formula for kinectic energy is .5mv^2 regardless if the object is from Star Wars, Star Trek or Stargate, so the calculations are consistent and fair.

One can argue about the accuracity of the initial data but the calculations themselves are objective, in fact that's their whole purpose, to give objective information that is accurate as long as the initial data is accurate.

[Tribble]

I don't know what it's capable of, that's why i'm asking in the first place.

Using sources like Wikipedia and (in the case of fiction) fan-wikis is not that hard. You can get a general idea of the topic with just a few minutes of reading. While this forum has ridiculous discussions at times they are usually at least informed discussions. In most of your topics so far it is blindingly obvious that you did not bother to research the topic at all before posting. You are clearly capable of reading, so why don't yo try using that skill for a change?

In this case, "How strong is the armor on a Xeelee nightfighter?" is a question which doesn't need it's own thread- all you had to do was find the Wikipedia / fan wiki article on the Xeelee and find out for yourself. It is science fiction, not real life, so you don't need a degree to have an understanding of their feats. You could have answered your own damned question in a minute if you wanted to, and it comes across as you being stupid, lazy, or trolling (or all three).

As was stated earlier, if you were planning on a vs thread involving something obscure like the Xeelee, the onus is on you to provide the information for us. And more importantly, state the info in the OP.

However, according to older places on SB, the fighter is at least capable of destroying planets, and other people say the Xeelee have assault rifles capable of destroying stars. However, those calcs might not use "science" as this board claims to, and might be incorrect in the eyes of most people here.

You clearly don't understand how this board works. When looking at fiction, we try to use the best available canon to establish feats, then use "science" to try and determine what those feats mean. Usually this is for the purposes of comparison to other works of fiction since (with some exceptions) most works of fiction tends not to directly interact with other works of fiction in canon.

As far as I know information on the Xeelee is based solely on the Xeelee Sequence novels. So unless there is something that contradicts those feats in universe for the purposes of discussion the Xeelee are capable of doing these things. The "science" would be "how much energy would that hand-held weapon have to generate in order to blow up a star?" not "handheld-energy weapons of that scale are impossible, therefore the Xeelee can't do those things even though they were explicitly stated to be capable of doing so in the novels".

Do you understand the difference?

stuff about 40k universe

First off, I would like to point out that if you wish to debate about the findings in that thread, why don't you post in that thread instead of posting here? You clearly seem interested, so go ahead, do some research, and join the thread.

Second, it should be pointed out that while other forums are sometimes useful for info their opinions do not constitute evidence. Stating "Reddit thinks 40 K would win, therefore they win!" is not an argument that will be accepted here.

Third, after reading those threads, their debate and evidence is far from conclusive.

Generally speaking here is how our forum treats canon:

Original source material >>> adaptions of source material >>> Expanded Universe material.

Sometimes this is fairly easy to figure out. In this case, the only known material about the Xeelee come from the Xeelee Sequence, so we can treat all feats in the Xeelee Sequence as canon.

The 40K universe has several sources of canon and as there is no official tier (that I am aware of) it is very difficult to determine what should be considered canon and not. 40K feats can go from "crap" to "demi-god" status depending on the particular work and author, so it's very hard to know what to use. Other forums don't appear to be doing any better when it comes to figuring that out.

[Sea Skimmer]

The more power involved the more its reasonable to rely on order of magnitude kind of comparisons.

That works okay for space combat between large super powerful things the the bigger 40K ships, and Trek and Wars starships. Your past gigawatts of actual installed power at that point.

When people start trying to apply that thinking to ground fights between sides that kill each other with more or less normal explosions, you need a lot more specific comparisons. Whatever its super strength the 40K stuff just can't be that mighty on the ground, because the ground and air are present benchmarks of effects. And the writers generally want to write like it's perpetual silly WW2-Crusade. They don't do things they could like use nuclear weapon yield explosions for defensive cratering on a regular basis. The artillery barrages don't remove land forms, at least not anymore so then a protracted WW1 concentration could. It's not combat meant to be scaled that high. The starship weapons might be able to do that kind of thing with useful accuracy in action, I don't pay a lot of attention to it since they are so silly vulnerable to boarding somehow.

[Rhadamantus]

[
Now, according to a gamefaqs debating page (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/605245-w ... 011?page=0) which pits the leman russ against the predator and the abrams, apparently the 40K tanks would curbstomp the abrams in almost every single battle, as they are futuristic tanks and also look cooler.

Do you have no idea how stupid this way of evaluation is?

[Q99]

I am noting a distinct lack of responding by Archinist to my post which outlined exactly how tough the armor is and what physical capabilities it's shown.

If that is what Archinist is here to discern, I thought it'd be relevant.

You clearly don't understand how this board works. When looking at fiction, we try to use the best available canon to establish feats, then use "science" to try and determine what those feats mean. Usually this is for the purposes of comparison to other works of fiction since (with some exceptions) most works of fiction tends not to directly interact with other works of fiction in canon.

As far as I know information on the Xeelee is based solely on the Xeelee Sequence novels. So unless there is something that contradicts those feats in universe for the purposes of discussion the Xeelee are capable of doing these things. The "science" would be "how much energy would that hand-held weapon have to generate in order to blow up a star?" not "handheld-energy weapons of that scale are impossible, therefore the Xeelee can't do those things even though they were explicitly stated to be capable of doing so in the novels".

Do you understand the difference?

Addum: If we decide something is not science at all and just magic, then it's, "And this should go in the fantasy section," not 'it didn't do this.'

40k's warp is magic. It can still do stuff.


And yes, the Xeelee are 100% from the Xeelee sequence. There's no alternate sources, and only one author.

[Lord Revan]

I think one the major faults Archinist has is that he's totally and utterly unable to understand why fantasy doesn't mean "anything goes" and why good fantasy has rules and limits and why those restrictions make the piece way more intresting then if it was "anything goes". To put it bluntly if there's no limits in the story anything happens via the author's fiat (and I'm still not talking about the car either) and there's no drama as you know 110% that any problems are artificial and are there only because a)the author forgot about the obvious solution b) author tries to create some sort of sense of danger.

[Lord Revan]

I don't like repeating or quoting myself but...

To add to what Simon said, when you use things like the "dwarves" from earlier it reduces the debate into kindergarden level as you clearly have a set goal in mind and are only asking for praise for your "genius" idea. That makes it boring for us as there's absolutely nothing to discuss, just like it pointless to change the driver once the car has already driven off the cliff there's no point in discussing something where the everything is essentially preset so that only 1 option is avaible, there's nothing meaningful to do there.

There's a reason I don't debate that much about abstract things with my niece (she's enough of a pain when trying to make her do things she should do) but then she's young enough that you kind of accept that she doesn't know how to behave mature. However on this board we expect people to behave mature, that's why there's a age limit for signing up, so it frustrates people here when someone doesn't behave as they should.

This is from the last page the "Orcish fantasy world invades modern Japan" thread in fantasy, this is relevant is that when a poster goes out of their way to give a certain impression people react to that impression. That quote also outlines while I said earlier in this thread that "Of course as we answered the question honestly rather in the way he wanted us to anwser." (oh and please excuse my dyslexia induced misspellings), because Archinist has shown clearly and multiple times that he isn't intrested in either our opinions or the correct answer but rather he only seeks to re-enforce his prejudices and be praised for the "genius" of his ideas regardless of the actual merit of those ideas. That is not how a mature person acts and is probably why Thanas thinks threads made by Archinist belong in testing, I can't say for sure but I can guess.

Now while my niece is rather smart for her age, she isn't even 10 years old yet so that puts strong limits to what she's capable of, so when talking to her I must accept these limits, but this forum isn't meant for pre-teens, it's meant for people who can act like a mature person, thus I shouldn't have to deal with people who act like pre-teens here. I don't have the time nor the enegy to act as someone's ego boost, I come to this forum for mature and hopefully smart discussion.

[Honorius]

*reads wiki on Xeelee*

Apparently black holes do work on the Xeelee to a degree - firing black holes at the black hole in the center of the Milky Way was threatening enough that the Xeelee decided to leave the Milky Way galaxy rather than continue to fight. Of course, from the Xeelee's perspective this was little more than a minor irritant as they could have crushed humanity with a bit more effort if they really wanted to.

The Xeelee are also capable of time travel so I'd definitely put the Xeelee in the upper-tier, though I'm not entirely sure where in that tier. A fight between them and the Time Lords would be interesting...

So a slight step behind Galactus in terms of power unless he whips out the Ultimate Nullifier and reality hacks them.

Be interesting to see how the Xeelee do against the High Tier Marvel and DC hitters if they're capable of utilizing weaponize galaxies as munitions.

[Q99]

A thing about the Xeelee is unlike a lot of powers, they're truly universal in scope.

Their FTL can travel the whole universe in short order (indeed, it's actually part of their FTL system), they have a strong presence in every galaxy (save for when they decide to leave the Milky Way), their numbers are immense.

And of course, their great construct, Balder's Ring, has a significant gravitational effect on the entire universe, the 'great attractor'... and that's just as a side effect. The main purpose is to make a backdoor out of the universe by spinning a cosmic string at lightspeed.