Star Wars: Rebels

[The Romulan Republic]

Deleted.

Posted in wrong forum. Apologies.

[Adam Reynolds]

For a random amusing comment that is a different digression, one random theory I heard lately is that Rex is one of the commandos on Endor. In particular that he is the one with a beard that later wears the scout trooper armor.


I suppose it could fit if you squint a little, though I doubt that will ever be canon. Though that leads to a question. Do clones still go through growth acceleration as adults?

"What about the attack on the wookies." "It's a system we cannot afford to lose." The CIS was still invading vital systems on the last day of the war, and raided Coruscant the day before.

Germany was still launching offensives into 1945, even as they were losing quite badly by any reasonable measure. The raw speed of hyperdrive means that such things will always be possible. It doesn't make their position strategically sound.

The CIS attack force on Coruscant was also quite soundly defeated, unlike the Republic attack against Utapau. While those are both due to Palpatine's machinations, so was the creation of the CIS, with the level of military strength it was given.

Also, in the brief snippits we saw, all of the Jedi appeared to be on the offensive when Order 66 occurred.

But he does shield them from consequences after TPM, notice how people say it's an outrage that Nute Gunray is still in power. The plan fails, and he still protects them.

In any case, they were tricked into joining the CIS, according to Dooku. In his dialog with Obi-Wan, he claimed that Gunray came to him for help after the deal fell apart. While you could argue that he was lying about the details, we see no evidence that any of his statements in that dialog were anything but true. Like Vader and Palpatine, he was extremely talented at skillfully telling the truth to fool others.

He also leaked the location of Utapau and ordered the seperatist leaders to be sent to Mustafar to be vulnerable. The attack on Utapau might have gone very differently without that.

True, just as the CIS would have never been built or had any military strength, neither would the Republic. This fails to address the question of why Palpatine would have thought it wise to allow Dooku to have more military strength than he himself would control. Dooku was just uppity enough to be a threat, why would Palpatine give him an army to rival his own?

The Onderon militia deliberately kept information from Kalani and kept him ignorant of the rebels strength until too late; garbage in, garbage out. Aside from the duplicity of Sidious there's no reason the CIS would be holding particularly much from Kalani - it's possible there were more republic forces than they realize, but I'm prepared to accept him as an expert.

The problem is that droids being wildly wrong about probabilities is extremely common in Star Wars. There is the famous 3720-1 odds given by 3PO, as well as the 96.7 percent chance of failure according to K-2SO in the Rouge One trailer. We know how both of those turn out. Why should Kalani be the exception?

See, the idea I got from season 6 was that it was all happening in the last week of the war. Or at least the incident with Tup and Yoda's journey to Moraband/Korriban, and they prompted Palpatine to end the war quickly, due to how close the Jedi were getting to working it out.

I suppose that is true, but based on what they knew at the time they should have been somewhat more suspicious of the clones in general. Though it does fit with Yoda's reaction, in which he doesn't totally trust them.

It does also fit why he ordered Grevious to hit Coruscant at that point, as it would both distract everyone as well as paint him as the hero and victim at the same time. Though in that case Clone Wars does have a slight issue with regard to Anakin's comment to Padme when they first meet, that he would have never been brought back from the Outer Rim sieges and that it had been months since they last met. Wasn't he on Coruscant during those episodes?

[eMeM]

The Onderon militia deliberately kept information from Kalani and kept him ignorant of the rebels strength until too late; garbage in, garbage out. Aside from the duplicity of Sidious there's no reason the CIS would be holding particularly much from Kalani - it's possible there were more republic forces than they realize, but I'm prepared to accept him as an expert.

The problem is that droids being wildly wrong about probabilities is extremely common in Star Wars. There is the famous 3720-1 odds given by 3PO, as well as the 96.7 percent chance of failure according to K-2SO in the Rouge One trailer. We know how both of those turn out. Why should Kalani be the exception?

Why do you think the droids were wrong?

96,7% chance of failure means there is still 3,3% chance of success.

You have 83,(3)% chance of failure when you want to roll any particular number on a six-sided die and the chances stay correct even if you succeed on the first try.

[NecronLord]

I don't have time for a full reply but no. No German offensive in 45 threatened a critical civilian area of the allies. Yes. Hyperdrive means they can hit each other more directly in the vulnerables. Just like nothing except sidious' orders stopped Grievous reducing Coruscant to molten slag in the raid (BDZ scalre bombardments are canon again).

The CIS answers to Sidious, not Dooku.

[Rogue 9]

Just like nothing except sidious' orders stopped Grievous reducing Coruscant to molten slag in the raid (BDZ scalre bombardments are canon again).

Out of curiosity, from what source? Base Delta Zero was mentioned in the first season of Rebels, but they didn't expound on what it actually is.

[Adam Reynolds]

I don't have time for a full reply but no. No German offensive in 45 threatened a critical civilian area of the allies. Yes. Hyperdrive means they can hit each other more directly in the vulnerables. Just like nothing except sidious' orders stopped Grievous reducing Coruscant to molten slag in the raid (BDZ scalre bombardments are canon again).

Why would any rational military start using strategic weapons against the enemy civilian population? All that would lead to is retaliation in kind, as well as a massive backlash against the Confederacy. Look at how much of a political hit the Empire took after Alderaan. This is even more true if they are at a military disadvantage at this point, as that retaliation in kind would be even more brutal than what the CIS could do in return.

Also, without Sidious the CIS would have never been able to launch that attack in the first place, as it required extremely accurate hyperspace routes that the CIS did not have on their own.

The CIS answers to Sidious, not Dooku.

Not usually directly, which would have given Dooku the potential option of staking out for himself if he was ambitious enough. Making the CIS the weaker power in the first place is a far superior strategy for a Sith Lord.

Out of curiosity, from what source? Base Delta Zero was mentioned in the first season of Rebels, but they didn't expound on what it actually is.

Here is what Wookiepedia gives:
"That 'Base Delta Zero' initiative the Empire keeps talking about? The new 'key to planetary liberation?' Don't believe it. It's a military code phrase, and it means TOTAL EXTERMINATION OF A TARGET POPULATION. It's completely loathsome."
―Sabine Wren, in her private journal(Sabine My Rebel Sketchbook)

Though it doesn't give anything for firepower levels, as it does not indicate the number of ships or length of time involved.

[RogueIce]

For a random amusing comment that is a different digression, one random theory I heard lately is that Rex is one of the commandos on Endor. In particular that he is the one with a beard that later wears the scout trooper armor.


I suppose it could fit if you squint a little, though I doubt that will ever be canon. Though that leads to a question. Do clones still go through growth acceleration as adults?

You're very late to the party on this one, chap.

Filoni has stated that if he ever got the chance to make it official, he would. So yeah he totally sees it and it was (probably) intentional when he gave Rex the beard.

[NecronLord]

Just like nothing except sidious' orders stopped Grievous reducing Coruscant to molten slag in the raid (BDZ scalre bombardments are canon again).

Out of curiosity, from what source? Base Delta Zero was mentioned in the first season of Rebels, but they didn't expound on what it actually is.

Where else but an ICS? The TFA ICS has it that the Resurgent can reduce a planet's surface to molten slag; no doubt the thousands of ships under Grievous' command could do it.

[NecronLord]

Why would any rational military start using strategic weapons against the enemy civilian population? All that would lead to is retaliation in kind, as well as a massive backlash against the Confederacy. Look at how much of a political hit the Empire took after Alderaan. This is even more true if they are at a military disadvantage at this point, as that retaliation in kind would be even more brutal than what the CIS could do in return.

While the Legends bombing of Humbarine springs to mind,t the CIS was already depopulating whole planets with slavers in the canon.

And even then, killing all the senators and bureaucrats even if you don't flatten the planet, would also have been practicable and productive.

Also, without Sidious the CIS would have never been able to launch that attack in the first place, as it required extremely accurate hyperspace routes that the CIS did not have on their own.

That's Legends.

Not usually directly, which would have given Dooku the potential option of staking out for himself if he was ambitious enough. Making the CIS the weaker power in the first place is a far superior strategy for a Sith Lord.

Dooku could have ruined him anyway. "Master Yoda, Palpatine is Sidious." It wouldn't have done much for the CIS but Palpatine would be fucked.

[Adam Reynolds]

While the Legends bombing of Humbarine springs to mind,t the CIS was already depopulating whole planets with slavers in the canon.

And even then, killing all the senators and bureaucrats even if you don't flatten the planet, would also have been practicable and productive.

There is also what the CIS attempts on Ryloth. But there is a difference between attacking an outer rim world and hitting core worlds like Coruscant or Alderaan. It is the same reason a terrorist attack in Paris has far more of an impact than anything Boko Haram does in Nigeria.

Historically very few wartime leaders are willing to target their opposite numbers. Why would this be any different?

Also, without Sidious the CIS would have never been able to launch that attack in the first place, as it required extremely accurate hyperspace routes that the CIS did not have on their own.

That's Legends.

Comments by the Jedi on the Nexus hyperspace rouge supports this idea.

Dooku could have ruined him anyway. "Master Yoda, Palpatine is Sidious." It wouldn't have done much for the CIS but Palpatine would be fucked.

That answers itself. If the CIS was outright weaker, Dooku would then be in an unwinnable position. If the CIS is outright stronger there is nothing to stop him from doing something like this.

[FaxModem1]

Anyway, the latest episode has us return to Mandalore, where we discover more about what's going on there.

And, it seems that kidnapping the Mandalore pilot paid dividends and gained them a new member. Maybe they can do that every week, go to a planet, kidnap someone, and eventually have them join their side.

[RogueIce]

So this episode had Lucius Vorenus go up against Titus Pullo, a brilliant casting decision on their part. I applaud the genius of Filoni and his crew.

[Adam Reynolds]

Yet another case of odd firepower. How could starship level weapons, at a high enough power setting to take out a Mandalorian ship, not kill the Mandalorian soldiers it hit the ground next to?

I realize they wear some rather high quality armor, but that is ridiculous.

[Reyvan]

Well, on his first run, Sabine and Ezra were right there, so he was probably not firing at full power.
When he goes for his second strafing run against the unnamed Mandalorian he doesn't have to worry about collateral damage, and he actually does take him down even when he misses, though its ambiguous whether or not the guy died. He did get knocked out of the air just from having the blasters hit near him though and doesn't show up again.

[Abacus]

This last episode was rather...lacking, imho. It felt like they stretched out a 10 minute segment into a full episode.

[FaxModem1]

I think that's because we didn't really go anywhere with the Sabine Wren is a Mandalorian plot. The Imperial collaborator is a member of her clan, but that's really all we have. The Mandalorian prisoner who has become a rebel, has been off-screen since his last appearance, so him joining the Rebels doesn't really seem like that big a deal. Especially since his entire clan is dead, so it's just one guy, not the representative of a faction to bring into the fold, and he's probably going to have much less weight to him as Rex, because Rex is a character from Clone Wars, as well as not having the character history that Rex has with all the characters.

If we had had some more appearances of him, or mentions of him, or if he was bringing in more than just himself, then it would feel like a bigger deal that he had gone from prisoner to rebel.

It also doesn't help that it boils down to, "Rebels capture someone, they get Stockholm Syndrome, join the rebels". Which is why I made the joke that they should do it every week, as it seems to pay off. Whereas earlier in the series it felt like they were making a big mistake in forcing his compliance, something that would hurt them later, not a victory that should seem like a viable tactic for the Rebels.

[Galvatron]

How long until Dave Filoni introduces Kal Skirata and his boys into the mix?

[Reyvan]

I doubt he will, or if he does, they'll be radically different from Travis' version of them. His vision of Mandalore differs radically from hers and is basically the reason she stopped writing for Star Wars. Besides, if he were going to bring in Skirata he would have done that in the Clone Wars.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, whatever else one can say about The Clone Wars, it probably did the franchise a service by basically giving Travis the boot.

[FaxModem1]

Preview of upcoming episode:



What is Thrawn up to, aside from getting rid of a troublesome officer.

[Adam Reynolds]

Maybe this is just me, but Thrawn feels much more capable in the Zahn trilogy than in this series. The problem here is that he has vastly more resources and thus his strategic moves are less necessary. Though I suppose it is possible there is some grand plan that he will pull off over the course of the season.

[The Romulan Republic]

I haven't seen much of the show lately, so I won't comment on its portrayal of Thrawn specifically, but I do think Thrawn's prowess has been inflated over time in the minds of some fans. TTT Thrawn made mistakes, or lost battles because of events outside of his control. He underestimated the threat, and overestimated the loyalty, of the Noghiri. He failed to change the codes on those devices he stole from Lando, as I recall, which allowed one of his plans to be sabotaged. He vastly overestimated his ability to control C'baoth. He's good, but he's not infallible.

Edit: He's also got a mixed track record handling Jedi in general. Like I said, he couldn't ultimately contain C'baoth. And he couldn't stop Luke and Mara when they were on his own damn ship, if I'm remembering the trilogy correctly.

[FaxModem1]

I haven't seen much of the show lately, so I won't comment on its portrayal of Thrawn specifically, but I do think Thrawn's prowess has been inflated over time in the minds of some fans. TTT Thrawn made mistakes, or lost battles because of events outside of his control. He underestimated the threat, and overestimated the loyalty, of the Noghiri. He failed to change the codes on those devices he stole from Lando, as I recall, which allowed one of his plans to be sabotaged. He vastly overestimated his ability to control C'baoth. He's good, but he's not infallible.

Edit: He's also got a mixed track record handling Jedi in general. Like I said, he couldn't ultimately contain C'baoth. And he couldn't stop Luke and Mara when they were on his own damn ship, if I'm remembering the trilogy correctly.

Small spoilers then. So far, Thrawn has had no victories. He has analyzed the Rebels, and let them go. There have been multiple engagements with the rebels, and each time he has a chance to hurt them, or wipe them out, and instead, he holds his action and lets them go. Each time, the rebels are acquiring some small victory here or there. This could be building up to something, but what it's presenting is a man with all hype, no substance.

If Thrawn is simply biding his time until all his pieces are in place, great. But unless Rebels is a series in which the entire main cast is wiped out, or the good guys really lose, or their actions don't do anything, making the protagonists inconsequential, we're instead seeing a commander who can't win any engagement due to his inability to act, and when he finally does, he will lose because he's the bad guy. Maybe he's actually going to be doing something later in the season, but so far, all he's doing is sitting on his hands for big payoff that's presumably going to blow up in his face.

It's why I continue to wonder if this interpretation of Thrawn is secretly a Rebel sympathizer, it would make a lot of his actions have more credibility.

[The Romulan Republic]

Thrawn of all people being a Rebel sympathizer would be too big a departure, only a step short of making Palpatine or Vader one.

Now, Thrawn having his own agenda that is neither the Rebel's or the Emperor's, and drawing the war out to that end, that I could maybe buy.

[Imperial Overlord]

Seems kind of obvious that Thrawn is letting them run so he can keep track of them until they lead him to a big group of rebels and he can swoop down and bag them all at once. It's the only thing that really fits.