Something big

[Crossroads Inc.]

Carrack supposedly has 10 "heavy" turbolasers - but there's no way those are real HTL, not on a ship 300m long. So, they're likely MTL, just "heavy" for something heavy corvette sized.

That is always how I interpreted it, "Heavy" for something of it's size and weight classification.
I always suspected that the Power generation for a Carrack was perhaps a bit above a ship of equal size.
This (in my own head) explains the lack of room for hangers, as well it's "durability" in terms of powerful shields from books and games.

That said, I am curious of the volume of your new ship to the Carrack?
It looks much more sleek, but less volume. Smaller power generation?

[Crazedwraith]

An excerpt from Wookiepedia concerning the Carrack-class Light Cruiser.

"Two weapon configurations were known for this class: one with ten heavy turbolasers, twenty laser cannons designed to defend against starfighters and missiles, and five tractor beam projectors, and an alternative version which replaced the flak lasers with ion cannons."

Weird. All the legends stuff I read had the ion cannons as standard and the quadlasers as the rare alternate version that basically turns into a non-shite lancer frigate.

The ion cannon were also key to it's effectiveness being able to disable ships bigger than itself that fractal's replacement seems to lack.

[fractalsponge1]

Carrack supposedly has 10 "heavy" turbolasers - but there's no way those are real HTL, not on a ship 300m long. So, they're likely MTL, just "heavy" for something heavy corvette sized.

That is always how I interpreted it, "Heavy" for something of it's size and weight classification.
I always suspected that the Power generation for a Carrack was perhaps a bit above a ship of equal size.
This (in my own head) explains the lack of room for hangers, as well it's "durability" in terms of powerful shields from books and games.

That said, I am curious of the volume of your new ship to the Carrack?
It looks much more sleek, but less volume. Smaller power generation?

I do agree with you about the Carrack. I think it was a high performer for its size, probably able to serve real fleet roles in addition to regular sector fleet duties. Probably enough shields and internal reinforcement to take a HTL hit from a destroyer and still have a chance to flee, whereas most corvettes would just be shattered by that level of firepower. That would neatly explain the lack of hangar.

The volume is similar (~80-90% of Carrack). I think the tradeoffs from the Carrack are more compact and more expensive (but probably easier to maintain) drive systems - the old ship had all these small individual drive systems rather than 3 massive ones on my design. Trade off a lot of the internal subdivision of the Carrack, shaving protected volume and thus weight. Convert part of those volume savings to a small hangar, and I mean small - 1 Mu class, 1 Delta, and no more than a flight of fighters, often StarWing for recon purposes. Carracks were supposed to be able to pace X-wings, so ~3700g, and I can't imagine this design would do less given similar drives and lower mass. Power generation for both designs similar within 10%, given that the reactor housing area is about the same volume - mid/high e20W range, possibly very low e21W for both designs.

An excerpt from Wookiepedia concerning the Carrack-class Light Cruiser.

"Two weapon configurations were known for this class: one with ten heavy turbolasers, twenty laser cannons designed to defend against starfighters and missiles, and five tractor beam projectors, and an alternative version which replaced the flak lasers with ion cannons."

Weird. All the legends stuff I read had the ion cannons as standard and the quadlasers as the rare alternate version that basically turns into a non-shite lancer frigate.

The ion cannon were also key to it's effectiveness being able to disable ships bigger than itself that fractal's replacement seems to lack.

Much like the "heavy" turbolasers are not HTL, I bet money the ion cannons are not like an ISDI's twin heavy flank ion. Especially if they replace light point defense weaponry - you can't plop a battleship turret into a AA mounting spot. I think the ion for a Carrack would be roughly firepower equivalent to LTL - good for disabling freighters and such and disrupting corvettes but just another drop in the bucket against destroyers.

[Crazedwraith]

I wasn't claiming the ion cannon were each equal to an ISDs, Just that in the old EU they had them and they allowed them to effective engage 'bigger' vessels. I don't recall that they ever stated how big those vessels were. The EU had plenty of ships bigger than a carrack and smaller than a star destroyer,

And again the ions were the default not the pd lasers.

[fractalsponge1]

I wasn't claiming the ion cannon were each equal to an ISDs, Just that in the old EU they had them and they allowed them to effective engage 'bigger' vessels. I don't recall that they ever stated how big those vessels were. The EU had plenty of ships bigger than a carrack and smaller than a star destroyer,

And again the ions were the default not the pd lasers.

If it's ions -> pd, then I can buy that the guns are ...maybe 20xMTL equivalent, and trade some ion for antifighter weapons. That'd be ok from a structural standpoint without major modification. MTL equivalent ion I could see working against frigates, though once you get to...maybe Strike size, it'd take a decent amount of MTL/M-ion fire to wear down the shielding.

Small ships scale very weirdly for reactor volume and power. The smaller you get, the worse the scaling effects. If they used destroyer power density, small ships like CR90s could potentially be packing MTL, but seems like LTL are the defining gun caliber of that size ship. Carracks could potentially scale ~5e22W if they used destroyer power density, but given the much much larger Acclamator yields 2e23W... I think a high 1e22W range powerplant is unlikely. ~1e22W might be a reasonable high-end estimate though.

20xMTL would be, well, that depends on what you think the rate of fire is, but it's its 5 shots/s (calculated from Acclamator numbers) then it'd be 1TT/s, so say 8e22W for 20. That would be at the high end of destroyer power density. Now if it's actually 10xMTL and the rest fighter-weight marginalia, then we're back down to ~5e22W and bog standard destroyer power density. Also to consider is that Carracks have no alpha arc and so may mount 20 MTL equivalent but can only use half in a sustained way anyway.

A lot depends on if you think the Acclamator part of the power scaling curve is an anomaly or not (the next largest ship with hard numbers is a yacht...). If it's heavily derated from a heavy frigate plant, than a Carrack working at 8e22W is plausible. If not, and heavy frigates normally manage 1e23-1e24W only, then a Carrack is likely to be operating at 1e22W.

For now, I'm sticking with low e22W range, so both ships are mounting ~10-20 MTL, and both are dipping into capacitor power if they have to use all of them at once.

[evillejedi]

I've always figured the Acclamator was a very compromised ship, with most of the reactor volume being traded for cargo space, landing gear etc. Since they needed troop transports for the GAR they essentially made 'liberty ships' in 45 days type of thing. (I can imagine a good short story about serving on an Acclamator I later in the Clone wars where hull plating is shearing off during combat maneuvers and systems are cobbled together scrap parts from other ships.) Anecdotally the Acclamator II was a star frigate and potentially the Class II frigate, either being the Acclamator II, or a further Imperial refinement would have appropriate reactor and armament.

Even with the CR90's I think they are stripped down for their role, the Modified/Assassin corvettes from the Tie Fighter games mounted a lot more weaponry than the base ships (even though they say they have the same LTL's after a little bit of research). A ship like the Tantive V had to operate openly in the Empire so LTL's were probably the best that could be officially/bribed into passing through Imperial Customs.

[Knife]

Couple options with the Acclamator. 1) already in Republic Fleet and needed and brought by Yoda to Kamino to get the Clones for combat. 2) Kaminoians bought the ships for Clone Transport as part of the Army. 3) Yoda borrowed the ships from a Republic member to pick up the clones, so Republic by nature if not official Republic ships.

I actually think the Acclamator's were part of the kit the Kaminoians put together for the Clones. An Army isn't worth much if they're stuck on base. The Republic having large troop transports sitting around with no troops would be weird too.

[fractalsponge1]

I tend to think Acclamators are also under-powered relative to the full frigate version. Reactor scaling would still be weird, given that it does have a pretty large reactor from the cross sections. So mid-low 1e22W for the Carrack and equivalent?

[Raesene]

Nice work on the Victory

Those double durrets remind me - have you done the light cruiser from Rebels ?

[Bosmun144]

What are those spikes extending from the wing? Do they have to do with atmospheric flight or are they some sort of targeting sensor?

[fractalsponge1]

What are those spikes extending from the wing? Do they have to do with atmospheric flight or are they some sort of targeting sensor?

I intend them as missile control aerials.

[Abacus]

What are those spikes extending from the wing? Do they have to do with atmospheric flight or are they some sort of targeting sensor?

I intend them as missile control aerials.

Wouldn't the missiles already have their own guidance systems, etc? Aerials seems...primitive.

[Elheru Aran]

What are those spikes extending from the wing? Do they have to do with atmospheric flight or are they some sort of targeting sensor?

I intend them as missile control aerials.

Wouldn't the missiles already have their own guidance systems, etc? Aerials seems...primitive.

Presumably redundancy is a concern given heavy battlefield jamming?

[fractalsponge1]

Yes, redundancy, midcourse correction, target redesignation, Destroyer-level signal power to try and get through jamming and to prevent spoofing. The missiles are a significant investment and limited in number. Anything that improves the odds of a hit are worth it. Even if the missiles have their own AI pilots they will not have the kind of sensor picture that the launch platform (or other platforms in a formation that share targeting data) can generate. That signal has to come through from somewhere.

Plus aerials look cool. nuff said.

[fractalsponge1]

Surface details, lighter defense guns, and bridge structure. The Indictor module is largely for equipment and signals processing. On that ship control areas are largely internal. This ship is bigger, and has a proper bridge structure underneath the Indictor module.

[evillejedi]

I feel like it needs some stair steps to break up the dorsal surface near the bow, maybe some level of inset plating. Right now the front shot looks like a weirdly scaled Xwing hull. The front double laser could go under the Chin instead on top since there is no ventral coverage

[fractalsponge1]

Yeah the prow is a a placeholder right now. I want to make the final shape more complex than what is there.

[Abacus]

You know, he's not wrong about the X-wing comment -- now that I look at from a distance. >.>

The two large cannons forward from the bridge. Would it not make more sense for the larger (looking) one to be behind the smaller?

[Captain Seafort]

The two large cannons forward from the bridge. Would it not make more sense for the larger (looking) one to be behind the smaller?

I think they're both the same size - the after mount just looks smaller because the taper of the hull means that there are gaps between the edge of the mount and the edge of the upper hull plane.

[fractalsponge1]

Turrets are the same size. It's perspective effects and hull taper that makes you think they're different.

As for the prow, right now I'm thinking to explode the panels and fit a set of open equipment. The X-W hull form forward was semi-deliberate. Right now the placeholder prow area makes it actually an X-W fuselage - that will change.

[Geforce]

hello together,

ok the new speed ship is great i love to see new imperial ships every time.

but now some statement about the victory....im not happy with it Too many gross deviations
t think good corrections are:

1. please 4 main batteries
2. a third little sensordome on the bridge section
3. some missiles ports on the rear
4. the big communication tower

[Crossroads Inc.]

@Geforce
You realize he is doing the Missile variant and not the more traditional "Big Gun" VicStar.
Also, as with most of Ansel's work, he tends to do "re-envisioning" of older ships and re designs them from the ground up
(see his dreadnought)
just saying.

[23 November 1939]

hello together,
[Snip]
but now some statement about the victory....im not happy with it Too many gross deviations
[Snip]

I tend to sit on the sidelines, but here I will echo Crossroads. Our artist has stated he is trying to move it away from the lazy, half-pint Victory that is seen in so many sources. At the same time he is trying to fit into a universe that also has the Venator. I adore the old diagrams, but I would point out that the publishers thought so little of the diagrams that my early edition Guide has the Victory and ISD images reversed.

If, like me, you are a fan of Dark Empire, compare the Bellator (http://fractalsponge.net/?p=155) to the source material (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html#cruiser5).

Perhaps think of it as a Jane's guide vs. a children's picture book on ships?

[fractalsponge1]

but now some statement about the victory....im not happy with it Too many gross deviations
t think good corrections are:

1. please 4 main batteries
2. a third little sensordome on the bridge section
3. some missiles ports on the rear
4. the big communication tower

No.

1. The Essential guide plan doesn't even match the essential guide sketch.
2. https://www.google.com/search?q=victory ... M%3A][This, which vastly predates the Essential Guide, doesn't have flank batteries, and is quite divergent from other references as well.

Given this, I'm doing my normal interpolation of all the available references with my own ideas. If you want the Essential Guide Vic, commission one.

I will say that the communication tower and the third sensor dome may yet make it in. The sensor dome will be a small Vindicator model. The tower, if one gets built, will depend largely on whether my client wants a stronger Cantwell lean or not.

[evillejedi]

I figured that Ansel was following the bottom concept here, as inspiration, which predates the WEG Victstar