The 2016 US Election (Part IV)

[Elfdart]

So yeah...we have a racist, kidfucking, rapist billionaire at the head of the most powerful country in the world...put there by the will of the people. That's the part that's so stunning to me...we...wanted him to win....or (maybe) the normies stayed home thinking that there weren't enough brown-people hating weirdos out there to get him into the white house. This doesn't feel real.

Long time no see!

Watching what has happened to this jumbo-sized loony bin we call the USA over the last sixteen years has been like living through Starship Troopers, Attack of the Clones, Idiocracy and Bob Roberts rather than sitting through these movies.

For fuck's sake, we don't even get charismatic Generalissimo or a spellbinding demagogue like other countries who go fascist. We get an absolute fucktard with the vocabulary of a 3rd grader as our fascist leader.

[Lonestar]

And now he has nukes.

I'm betting heavily that we'll see a repeat with Nixon who was drunk so frequently the Chiefs made an informal, off the books agreement that he would never have final say on use.

[Lonestar]

Also I told a gun forum that if HRC didn't win by at least 5 points I would eat a live hornet

Anyway long story short people remembered

[Crown]

Also I told a gun forum that if HRC didn't win by at least 5 points I would eat a live hornet

Anyway long story short people remembered

Pics please.

[K. A. Pital]

If he stops US free-trade rampage? Yes.

Because their are no other ways to fuck over the poor and disadvantaged.

There are many ways, but installing secret unaccountable courts and making provisions subjecting me, here, to the same regulations that some corporate dumbass thinks go well in the US - and vice versa - is a total "thanks but no thanks for me".

Not just myself, but many of the current working people and their descendants would be negatively affected by "a couple of trade deals".

I did not mean that there are no other ways, but your condescending mention of this as just "a couple of deals" was idiotic. And that's exactly why Hillary was a no-go candidate for many workers. Too bad you can't even learn from your mistakes.

Well, at least you got taught a lesson and got humbled, even if it was done in a gruesome fashion.

I don't call everyone I dislike a fascist. You are a liar, or at best engaged in misleading hyperbole. I call Trump a fascist because he employs fascistic rhetoric, has fascist supporters, and supports fascistic policies.

Trump wants to abolish the US electoral system in favor of a one-party nationalist state with him as the Leader and start a war to restore influence? I want to see some evidence of this. Like him claiming that he is actually a president for life, at least.

[The Romulan Republic]

He was quoted a while back saying that maybe we should cancel the election and just declare him the winner.

Sure, he might have been joking, but its an interesting look into his thought process, I'd say.

[Lonestar]

Pics please.

Absolutely. An alternative has been presented, and I'll produce the finished product and throw it in the arts forum

[Flagg]

I agree they are important but that doesn't mean fixing our election system isn't either. Not sure why it has to be one or the other.

That's not the thread of argument going on here, he's literally calling people that would dare (dare I say!) prioritise things like the TTP or the TTIP over some nebulous claim that "the basic equality, dignity, and civil liberties of every woman and minority in America, more important than our democratic institutions and the rule of law" were on the line as 'part of the problem'.

Conveniently ignoring that "every woman and minority in America" would be affected (negatively in our view) by the TTP and TTIP and that these trade deals be design subvert "democratic institutions and the rule of law".

Because feels. Literally, that is his argument.

Conveniently ignoring Trump's stated intent to restrict the press, ban Muslims, deport millions, strip children of illegal immigrants of their citizenship, and violate the Geneva conventions, among other things.

We know you're a liar and an Alt. Rightist troll, Crown. But you keep digging that hole deeper.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you, because I don't believe Rapist Donnie Douchebag is against the TTP or TTIP, even if he says he is because he's a documented and proven liar.

And Crown, stop lying you fucking trolling piece of apeshit. There is NOTHING "nebulous" about Rapist Donnie Douchebag's history of misogyny, sexual assault, and talking poorly about minorities specifically his unconstitutional plan to ban all Muslims from entering the US, his unconstitutional plan to deport natural born American children oh undocumented immigrants, and his stated love of war. But maybe you just don't care as long as he's not grabbing any of your female loved ones "by the pussy" whether they want it or not.

[Crown]

He was quoted a while back saying that maybe we should cancel the election and just declare him the winner.

Sure, he might have been joking, but its an interesting look into his thought process, I'd say.

I'm pretty sure that was when the polls went from him trailing by 12 to being behind by 3 overnight. Holy shit if you can't detect obvious sarcasm I worry about you.

And again you say this shit like we should all believe the absolute worst about Trump, while his opponent literally ran because 'it was her turn' and she had to rig the primary to get a shot to do it (and since you're a Bernout, this should be obvious). The cognitive dissonance is truly astounding.

[aerius]

I'm not 'conveniently ignoring' any of that, but the TTP and TTIP will fuck you and yours for generations. I've done a different risk assessment than you. And even if I believe that Trump will do everything you just listed 100% all the way (and I sure as shit don't), I still firmly believe that the TTP and TTIP present greater harm than the alternative.

This generation is shaking its fist at the Baby Boomers and the way they fucked it all up for them, pass the TTIP and TPP and 3 generations from now they will be saying the same about this generation.

By the way, none of that rebuts the argument; the TTP and TTIP are a direct threat to your "democratic institutions and the rule of law" and also screw over "every woman and minority in America". So go fuck yourself.

To put it bluntly, TTP and TTIP is essentially an agreement among richer nations for the organized permanent enslavement of poorer nations so that we can enjoy our cheap iShit consumer lifestyle. And it's quite undemocratic as well since the people of the countries proposing the agreement a)never wanted the damn deal, b)have no say as to what's in the deal, c)don't get a vote to approve or reject it. Damn thing might as well have been dropped from up high by The King.

And I know you get it but apparently a bunch of folks don't; Trump can't even begin to do half the shit he's "promised" in his campaign, he's not a DC insider and he doesn't have the full support of his party. And promised is in quotes for a reason, if you actually think he's going to build a giant wall on the Mexican border and make them pay for it, you've fully bought into the mainstream media narrative.

It's classic sell the image and negotiating bluster, what Trump wants is better better border security & immigration control. By opening with a completely outlandish statement he establishes himself as the strong candidate who has the balls to actually do something, and it puts him in the news cycle 24/7. It also means he has a ton of room to negotiate down to what he actually wants, you never open with your final position in a negotiation unless you're fucking stupid.

Seriously. Chill the fuck out. The US government system is deadlock shit and not work, and most of the shit that comes out of Trump's mouth is just there to get a strong emotional response from the audience. He's not going to start a fucking nuclear war that gets all his buildings and real estate nuked till it glows in the dark. He might be a douchebag but he's not a suicidal lunatic.

[Flagg]

If he stops US free-trade rampage? Yes.

Because their are no other ways to fuck over the poor and disadvantaged.

There are many ways, but installing secret unaccountable courts and making provisions subjecting me, here, to the same regulations that some corporate dumbass thinks go well in the US - and vice versa - is a total "thanks but no thanks for me".

Not just myself, but many of the current working people and their descendants would be negatively affected by "a couple of trade deals".

I did not mean that there are no other ways, but your condescending mention of this as just "a couple of deals" was idiotic. And that's exactly why Hillary was a no-go candidate for many workers. Too bad you can't even learn from your mistakes.

Well, at least you got taught a lesson and got humbled, even if it was done in a gruesome fashion.

I don't call everyone I dislike a fascist. You are a liar, or at best engaged in misleading hyperbole. I call Trump a fascist because he employs fascistic rhetoric, has fascist supporters, and supports fascistic policies.

Trump wants to abolish the US electoral system in favor of a one-party nationalist state with him as the Leader and start a war to restore influence? I want to see some evidence of this. Like him claiming that he is actually a president for life, at least.

The sad part is, I can see him doing it and despite all the conspiracy theories about Dubya doing it, I never took it seriously because I couldn't "see it in my mind eye". I can see Rapist Donnie Douchebag doing it, not that I really think he will.

As for the "fascist" label, I'm not in agreement there. I think "Oligarch" would be far more accurate. I certainly don't like him having Putin as his back-to-back masturbation buddy.

[Crown]

Conveniently ignoring Trump's stated intent to restrict the press, ban Muslims, deport millions, strip children of illegal immigrants of their citizenship, and violate the Geneva conventions, among other things.

We know you're a liar and an Alt. Rightist troll, Crown. But you keep digging that hole deeper.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you, because I don't believe Rapist Donnie Douchebag is against the TTP or TTIP, even if he says he is because he's a documented and proven liar.

And Crown, stop lying you fucking trolling piece of apeshit. There is NOTHING "nebulous" about Rapist Donnie Douchebag's history of misogyny, sexual assault,

A history that spontaneously appeared 2 weeks before the election, and will quietly go away. And you yet again are falling into the trap if I have to believe every claim about the GOD EMPEROR just because you say so, then you are guilty of wanting to vote into the White House a woman who enabled a serial rapist, who engaged in character defamations of his victims and who was caught on tape laughing that she got a known child rapist off with a lie detector.

Spare me your faux moral outrage.

and talking poorly about minorities specifically his unconstitutional plan to ban all Muslims from entering the US, his unconstitutional plan to deport natural born American children oh undocumented immigrants, and his stated love of war.

If all that shit is unconstitutional than it will be challenged and struck down by the courts, that's what their function is for.

But maybe you just don't care as long as he's not grabbing any of your female loved ones "by the pussy" whether they want it or not.

Ah-ha.

[Crown]

It's classic sell the image and negotiating bluster, what Trump wants is better better border security & immigration control. By opening with a completely outlandish statement he establishes himself as the strong candidate who has the balls to actually do something, and it puts him in the news cycle 24/7. It also means he has a ton of room to negotiate down to what he actually wants, you never open with your final position in a negotiation unless you're fucking stupid.

So like the exact opposite of first term Obama then? Seriously talk about an opportunity squandered.

[Flagg]

I'm not 'conveniently ignoring' any of that, but the TTP and TTIP will fuck you and yours for generations. I've done a different risk assessment than you. And even if I believe that Trump will do everything you just listed 100% all the way (and I sure as shit don't), I still firmly believe that the TTP and TTIP present greater harm than the alternative.

This generation is shaking its fist at the Baby Boomers and the way they fucked it all up for them, pass the TTIP and TPP and 3 generations from now they will be saying the same about this generation.

By the way, none of that rebuts the argument; the TTP and TTIP are a direct threat to your "democratic institutions and the rule of law" and also screw over "every woman and minority in America". So go fuck yourself.

To put it bluntly, TTP and TTIP is essentially an agreement among richer nations for the organized permanent enslavement of poorer nations so that we can enjoy our cheap iShit consumer lifestyle. And it's quite undemocratic as well since the people of the countries proposing the agreement a)never wanted the damn deal, b)have no say as to what's in the deal, c)don't get a vote to approve or reject it. Damn thing might as well have been dropped from up high by The King.

And I know you get it but apparently a bunch of folks don't; Trump can't even begin to do half the shit he's "promised" in his campaign, he's not a DC insider and he doesn't have the full support of his party. And promised is in quotes for a reason, if you actually think he's going to build a giant wall on the Mexican border and make them pay for it, you've fully bought into the mainstream media narrative.

It's classic sell the image and negotiating bluster, what Trump wants is better better border security & immigration control. By opening with a completely outlandish statement he establishes himself as the strong candidate who has the balls to actually do something, and it puts him in the news cycle 24/7. It also means he has a ton of room to negotiate down to what he actually wants, you never open with your final position in a negotiation unless you're fucking stupid.

Seriously. Chill the fuck out. The US government system is deadlock shit and not work, and most of the shit that comes out of Trump's mouth is just there to get a strong emotional response from the audience. He's not going to start a fucking nuclear war that gets all his buildings and real estate nuked till it glows in the dark. He might be a douchebag but he's not a suicidal lunatic.

I think what's so jarring for a lot of people, myself included, is that we went from "almost certainly, she's a shoe-in!" for our first female President who was eminently qualified (certainly the most qualified candidate for POTUS in my lifetime) if a bit too far right for my, and others taste to shockingly electing a racist, misogynistic, sexual predator blowhard who's only "applicable" experience is running companies into the ground while still managing to make a fuckton of money out of it.

[Dominus Atheos]

If you want some optimism, here's the closest you're going to get.



Game on.

[Simon_Jester]

Also I told a gun forum that if HRC didn't win by at least 5 points I would eat a live hornet

Anyway long story short people remembered

There have been times when I did not like you.

But you are a good guy. I like you.

Trump wants to abolish the US electoral system in favor of a one-party nationalist state with him as the Leader and start a war to restore influence? I want to see some evidence of this. Like him claiming that he is actually a president for life, at least.

There is considerable evidence that Trump has serious trouble comprehending the idea of losing. When the polls were looking unfavorable a month or so ago, he started lashing out in a way that suggested an inability to lose gracefully. Should he lose the 2020 election,* I find it very hard to believe he wouldn't call shenanigans, or that some of his more crazed followers wouldn't try to pull characteristically fascist stunts.

Now, any foray Trump makes into fascism may resemble the 1923 Beer Hall Putsch rather than the 1933 "and now I have no further need of you" accession to the Chancellorship. But essentially every American with fascist leanings is backing Trump, and Trump is saying all the right words to make one think he approves of that.
_________________

*Seriously, there is every reason to think his popularity will follow the same basic trajectory as Bush's was on before the 9/11 attacks: namely, plunging towards zero so hard he'd leave a crater on the way down.

Bush won a very narrowly contested election too, and was widely regarded as a vapid blowhard cowboy parody of a 'Murcan, proudly in bed with corrupt corporate interests. His popularity fell steadily from January to August and his administration was being plagued by awkward questions about his relationship with Enron and so on... until 9/11 happened and he was able to divert attention to foreign threats that could, at least in theory, be dealt with by 'firm' application of military power.

Virtually everything that ever happened to Bush hurt his approval rating, except for the War on Terror, which helped by getting people scared enough to think maybe he was a good president somehow after all. 9/11 was the most fortunate thing that ever happened to him.

Unless foreign terrorists are so obliging as to attack the US heavily while Trump is in office, and that doesn't seem very likely given that the trend has been toward "lone nut" attacks domestically and the big terrorism overseas... Trump is unlikely to be so fortunate as Bush. He's going to be embroiled in scandals, he's going to screw up, he's going to cause or allow to happen things that most Americans don't really want.

There is a very high chance of him losing in 2020, assuming nobody cheats and history doesn't hand Trump some kind of 'favor' that enables him to artificially inflate his approval ratings.

[Tribble]

I think what's so jarring for a lot of people, myself included, is that we went from "almost certainly, she's a shoe-in!" for our first female President who was eminently qualified (certainly the most qualified candidate for POTUS in my lifetime) if a bit too far right for my, and others taste to shockingly electing a racist, misogynistic, sexual predator blowhard who's only "applicable" experience is running companies into the ground while still managing to make a fuckton of money out of it.

Which I find kind of odd because... well the writing was on the wall from where I stood, and I'm kind of surprised that so many people failed to see it coming. What was it that you missed? I knew right off the bat that while Clinton may be the most qualified, she was not popular, and putting her up against a demagogue like Trump was a huge mistake on the Democrats part. IMO a lot of Democrats forgot that a majority of people tend to vote with their emotions rather than common sense, and that was something Trump was obviously capable of exploiting to the fullest.

[The Romulan Republic]

Also I told a gun forum that if HRC didn't win by at least 5 points I would eat a live hornet

Anyway long story short people remembered

There have been times when I did not like you.

But you are a good guy. I like you.

Trump wants to abolish the US electoral system in favor of a one-party nationalist state with him as the Leader and start a war to restore influence? I want to see some evidence of this. Like him claiming that he is actually a president for life, at least.

There is considerable evidence that Trump has serious trouble comprehending the idea of losing. When the polls were looking unfavorable a month or so ago, he started lashing out in a way that suggested an inability to lose gracefully. Should he lose the 2020 election,* I find it very hard to believe he wouldn't call shenanigans, or that some of his more crazed followers wouldn't try to pull characteristically fascist stunts.

Now, any foray Trump makes into fascism may resemble the 1923 Beer Hall Putsch rather than the 1933 "and now I have no further need of you" accession to the Chancellorship. But essentially every American with fascist leanings is backing Trump, and Trump is saying all the right words to make one think he approves of that.
_________________

*Seriously, there is every reason to think his popularity will follow the same basic trajectory as Bush's was on before the 9/11 attacks: namely, plunging towards zero so hard he'd leave a crater on the way down.

Bush won a very narrowly contested election too, and was widely regarded as a vapid blowhard cowboy parody of a 'Murcan, proudly in bed with corrupt corporate interests. His popularity fell steadily from January to August and his administration was being plagued by awkward questions about his relationship with Enron and so on... until 9/11 happened and he was able to divert attention to foreign threats that could, at least in theory, be dealt with by 'firm' application of military power.

Virtually everything that ever happened to Bush hurt his approval rating, except for the War on Terror, which helped by getting people scared enough to think maybe he was a good president somehow after all. 9/11 was the most fortunate thing that ever happened to him.

Unless foreign terrorists are so obliging as to attack the US heavily while Trump is in office, and that doesn't seem very likely given that the trend has been toward "lone nut" attacks domestically and the big terrorism overseas... Trump is unlikely to be so fortunate as Bush. He's going to be embroiled in scandals, he's going to screw up, he's going to cause or allow to happen things that most Americans don't really want.

There is a very high chance of him losing in 2020, assuming nobody cheats and history doesn't hand Trump some kind of 'favor' that enables him to artificially inflate his approval ratings.

Whatever happens to Trump's approval ratings, my concern is that by 2020, the Republicans will have had four years to pass sweeping voter ID laws, voting restrictions, and restrictions on the press, possibly revoke birthright citizenship and deport millions of voters from Democratic leaning demographics, and appoint justices all the way to the Supreme Court who will sign off on the preceding.

[Flagg]

Conveniently ignoring Trump's stated intent to restrict the press, ban Muslims, deport millions, strip children of illegal immigrants of their citizenship, and violate the Geneva conventions, among other things.

We know you're a liar and an Alt. Rightist troll, Crown. But you keep digging that hole deeper.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you, because I don't believe Rapist Donnie Douchebag is against the TTP or TTIP, even if he says he is because he's a documented and proven liar.

And Crown, stop lying you fucking trolling piece of apeshit. There is NOTHING "nebulous" about Rapist Donnie Douchebag's history of misogyny, sexual assault,

A history that spontaneously appeared 2 weeks before the election, and will quietly go away. And you yet again are falling into the trap if I have to believe every claim about the GOD EMPEROR just because you say so, then you are guilty of wanting to vote into the White House a woman who enabled a serial rapist, who engaged in character defamations of his victims and who was caught on tape laughing that she got a known child rapist off with a lie detector.

Spare me your faux moral outrage.

and talking poorly about minorities specifically his unconstitutional plan to ban all Muslims from entering the US, his unconstitutional plan to deport natural born American children oh undocumented immigrants, and his stated love of war.

If all that shit is unconstitutional than it will be challenged and struck down by the courts, that's what their function is for.

But maybe you just don't care as long as he's not grabbing any of your female loved ones "by the pussy" whether they want it or not.

Ah-ha.

2 weeks? Try several months. Seriously, go back under whatever fucking rock you crawled out from you trolling piece of shit.

[Crown]

Trump wants to abolish the US electoral system in favor of a one-party nationalist state with him as the Leader and start a war to restore influence? I want to see some evidence of this. Like him claiming that he is actually a president for life, at least.

There is considerable evidence that Trump has serious trouble comprehending the idea of losing.

No shit, when you're used to winning bigly (sic) that tends to happen. So how do you get from that to providing some evidence that he wants to install a one-party nationalist state with him as leader and start a war to restore influence?

When the polls were looking unfavorable a month or so ago, he started lashing out in a way that suggested an inability to lose gracefully.

Or their internal polling was different. Or he was remembering the polls and pollsters during the primary and was getting annoyed that they hadn't learned their lesson (I posted this in the other thread, but here's a quick refresher). But either way; how do you get from that to providing some evidence that he wants to install a one-party nationalist state with him as leader and start a war to restore influence?

Should he lose the 2020 election,* I find it very hard to believe he wouldn't call shenanigans, or that some of his more crazed followers wouldn't try to pull characteristically fascist stunts.

Now, any foray Trump makes into fascism may resemble the 1923 Beer Hall Putsch rather than the 1933 "and now I have no further need of you" accession to the Chancellorship. But essentially every American with fascist leanings is backing Trump, and Trump is saying all the right words to make one think he approves of that.

So none then, no evidence? Cheers thanks.

Do you know how frustrating it is that there are legitimate conversations that I would like to have about Trump and his policies (like for example will he be successful in closing down corporate tax loop holes that would then make up in lost revenue for his proposed tax cuts such that there will be a net increase in tax revenue or not), but we can't. Instead we have to go straight to the Nazi-logue dance of will America finally get a fascist dictator of its own.

Fucking hell this board.

[Crown]

2 weeks? Try several months. Seriously, go back under whatever fucking rock you crawled out from you trolling piece of shit.

Devastating as usual, and just to be clear; no.

[Flagg]

I think what's so jarring for a lot of people, myself included, is that we went from "almost certainly, she's a shoe-in!" for our first female President who was eminently qualified (certainly the most qualified candidate for POTUS in my lifetime) if a bit too far right for my, and others taste to shockingly electing a racist, misogynistic, sexual predator blowhard who's only "applicable" experience is running companies into the ground while still managing to make a fuckton of money out of it.

Which I find kind of odd because... well the writing was on the wall from where I stood, and I'm kind of surprised that so many people failed to see it coming. What was it that you missed? I knew right off the bat that while Clinton may be the most qualified, she was not popular, and putting her up against a demagogue like Trump was a huge mistake on the Democrats part. IMO a lot of Democrats forgot that a majority of people tend to vote with their emotions rather than common sense, and that was something Trump was obviously capable of exploiting to the fullest.

Because all the shit that got Tea Party dipshits and Mitt Romney the loss in 2012 was ramped up to 11. And I can't fathom how anyone could find Rapist Donnie Douchebag "likeable". He exudes slimeball jackass. And while I agree that Clinton wasn't likable, it was in a "politician" kind of way, if that makes any sense.

[Simon_Jester]

Half of America has been conditioned for decades to love bullies, to applaud the boot stamping on the human face so long as the face being stamped on isn't theirs.

The nation still has the potential to be systematically better than that. Parts of it are. But making the whole nation better is going to take time, and commitment, and movements that know what they're trying to accomplish and are outspoken about getting there.

Whatever happens to Trump's approval ratings, my concern is that by 2020, the Republicans will have had four years to pass sweeping voter ID laws, voting restrictions, and restrictions on the press, possibly revoke birthright citizenship and deport millions of voters from Democratic leaning demographics, and appoint justices all the way to the Supreme Court who will sign off on the preceding.

Suffice to say that I do not think having control of the government will render them as suddenly, sharply, phenomenally omnipotent as you appear to believe. If serious efforts are made, preparing well in advance, a great deal can be done to neutralize the effects of voter ID and voting restriction laws.

Mass revocation of citizenship, in particular, would require a constitutional amendment, and that is not within the level of power the Republicans now possess. Certainly not in two years' time, nor in four.

The key is going to be to start organizing NOW. To get people galvanized to vote NOW, to make sure that they are prepared, with their paperwork in order, to act when the election comes. Registering people to vote on-the-day-of isn't going to cut it anymore. But it's hardly beyond the organizational powers of a determined left to deal with that reality.

[Flagg]

Fucking hell this board.

Love it or leave it.

[Crown]

If you want some optimism, here's the closest you're going to get.

<snip>

Game on.

Yeah, TYT will save us, I love Cenk's moral outrage. He's funded by the slave state of Qatar but, he's morally outraged.



(if he's no longer funded by Aljazeera, correct me)