2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

[Wild Zontargs]

You did not act as though that was your understanding. Furthermore, even after I explained that you had misunderstood the nature of X, you continued to act as though I'd been saying "people of low educational attainment should be denied the vote or have their votes discounted," rather than saying "people who do not think about their votes do not deserve to have the vote."

There is a significant difference between:

1) Thinking sanely about your vote,
2) Having degrees from institutions of higher learning, and
3) Being able to correctly answer a quiz about American civics.

These are not the same thing. A civics quiz may or may not model whether a citizen has in fact done (1) correctly. Tracking voters by whether they have (2) or (3) does not automatically test whether they have (1).

No, I have repeatedly indicated that I am referring to low-information voters, not low-education voters. Voters who do not understand the issues can not "[think] sanely about [their] vote", regardless of their level of education. A rocket scientist who lives in his office and thinks the President is a King is a low-information voter. Perhaps we're talking past one another here. Are you focusing on people who do understand but do not care about the likely result of electing a candiate, to the exclusion of people who do not understand the likely result of electing a candidate?

Re. the article I was repeatedly quoting, I was not trying to hammer on "this is what would happen if somebody stopped the Bobs", but rather to point out that "this time around, the Bobs seem to have been more influential in Team Blue's favor, so Team Blue complaining about Bob letting Team Red win confuses me".

I have already explained this in my original reply to the post in which you posted your article. And at length, in my post after that.

Well, we appear to be talking past one another, because you keep saying "education education degree education", and my points were about "understand what the President does, understand basic economic facts, understand which party is in power". Unless you're saying that a degree is a prerequisite for minimal civic literacy, my points had nothing to do with that sort of education.

I also don't understand what repeatedly saying "I really wish Bob would stop that" accomplishes that going up to Bob and saying "hey Bob, can I talk to you about X?" wouldn't. Crying into the ether about Bob, then getting defensive when someone asks what you would have Bob do instead seems unhelpful.

In the context of this thread, I am talking about the precise nature of what I believe to be a profound mistake. I am not, at this time, engaged in attempts to persuade those who made the mistake that it was a mistake.

I am being very, very blunt, something I feel entitled to do here on account of the forum rules explicitly saying people can do that.

So is this just venting, rather than an attempt to formulate ideas to do anything about it? If so, fair enough, and I'll leave the matter there.

[Soontir C'boath]

Yes, I read that you don't believe they deserve to vote and I logically takes to its conclusion. Otherwise, frankly you're just preaching to the choir which is boring...

So you decided to read a controversial opinion into what I said... purely because otherwise it would be dull?

More seriously, my statement fit into a larger context, which is that democratic nations do not learn from making severe mistakes until they admit to the mistake. If the people who enabled the mistake are unwilling to recognize that it was a mistake, that their bad choices created a disaster for their nation, then nothing is learned and the mistake will be repeated.

Make up your mind. You want to absolve yourself by saying it is a thoughtful case of morality on your part, but you now want to track back as a need for a solution. Those damn pesky politicians better recognize their mistake and do something about it!

[Broomstick]

So, anyone hear how Trump got triggered by Pence getting booed/criticized at a showing of Hamilton?

Yep.

Tearing up the internet in some places. So far the best quotes I've gotten out of it were:

"OK, so Pence got an earful from the cast. That's a lot better than what Lincoln got the last time he attended a play."

And (in reference to which actor read the statement) "Go ahead, Donald. Pick a fight with Aaron Burr. What's the worst that could happen?"

The fact is, Pence got a lot worse when he was governor here after passing the RFRA. Pence is also a career politician. This was his response to the uproar:

When we arrived we heard a few boos, and we heard some cheers. I nudged my kids and reminded them that is what freedom sounds like.

Well, at least someone is a grown up - but Trump is still demanding apologies. My god, this thin-skinned asshat is who is going to be PotUS for the four years? Pardon me, I have a sudden urge to vomit....

[Flagg]

So, anyone hear how Trump got triggered by Pence getting booed/criticized at a showing of Hamilton?

Yep.

Tearing up the internet in some places. So far the best quotes I've gotten out of it were:

"OK, so Pence got an earful from the cast. That's a lot better than what Lincoln got the last time he attended a play."

And (in reference to which actor read the statement) "Go ahead, Donald. Pick a fight with Aaron Burr. What's the worst that could happen?"

The fact is, Pence got a lot worse when he was governor here after passing the RFRA. Pence is also a career politician. This was his response to the uproar:

When we arrived we heard a few boos, and we heard some cheers. I nudged my kids and reminded them that is what freedom sounds like.

Well, at least someone is a grown up - but Trump is still demanding apologies. My god, this thin-skinned asshat is who is going to be PotUS for the four years? Pardon me, I have a sudden urge to vomit....

Yeah. Pence, despite his politics, seems to be a decent guy. Like the last time his plane crashed (it happens a lot to him, apparently ) after making sure his family was OK the first thing he did was make sure the secret service and journalists were OK.

[Simon_Jester]

My belief is that you can divide people into those who have an ethical core, and those who do not.

Honestly, the only thing Pence has ever done to my knowledge that makes me doubt the existence of his ethical core, is in choosing to associate with and enable a man who is the poster boy for lacking one.

He wouldn't be the first person to switch his morals off in a policy debate. For some reason people always expect that to be a good idea.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yeah, I remember thinking when I watched the VP debate that Pence seemed sincere, genuine, in his beliefs. That he's doing what he believes is right.

He's horribly, horribly wrong about many things, but I don't think its out of pure malice or self-interest. He doesn't set my sociopath radar off the way Trump does.

I suspect he might be a fundamentally decent man who just learned all the wrong lessons.

Edit: Which, sadly makes him no less dangerous to those who's rights he would deny. Maybe more dangerous, even. A True Believer can do more damage, and be harder to work with, than someone who just has no moral compass.

[The Romulan Republic]

The selection of Trump by Pence, and Pence's acceptance, ironically damns both men, in any case.

In Trump's case, it shows that while he may not be a Right wing ideologue himself, he's happy to give them positions of power in his government.

In Pence's case, it shows that whatever his own morality, he's willing to throw his lot in with an amoral man, as Simon_Jester noted.

Its the worst of both worlds.

[Flagg]

Of course I do, which is why I stated in the post above that I don't believe you were advocating poll testing.

You're right and I apologize for the confusion.

Not a problem or necessary, but appreciated nonetheless.

I simply took issue with AD essentially wagging his finger in the faces of everyone who responded because some of us were talking about the broader issue, not accusing you of wanting to control who does and doesn't vote because you never specifically said you did, but the quote that was posted and replied to was, IMO, bordering on it.

Of the three people who brought it up, I think they all took time to make accusations against me.

Also, is there any way, in your opinion, to talk in a serious and fairly stern way about the responsibilities of a citizen in a democracy? Electorates voting in rotten demagogues is a very well known problem that's been an issue with democracy for thousands of years, and as far as I know there is literally no way to stop it from happening except for the electorate to be alert and pay attention to the basic character and qualifications of the people they vote for.

I refuse to be moderate in my criticism of voters who make a mistake so common and basic that even Plato (that bastard) thought it was a problem with democracy. A 2500-year-old mistake is one we should be smarter than to commit all over again. If I think voting for a person was a profoundly dumbass decision, then on a forum founded with the principle of not having to pretend dumbassery is normal and acceptable, I am darn well going to call that decision 'dumbass.'

And when people try to use that as a launchpad for "Simon hates democracy! Do you want a poll tax or an entrance exam for voting, Simon?" it strikes me as extremely dishonest. It's the kind of mindset that ultimately enables the failure of democracy. Because it's promoting blind worship of election results, rather than serious discussion of those results, understanding of how they can lead to bad outcomes, and striving to prevent those bad outcomes.

If I wanted democracy to crash and burn, you can bet that I would spend lots of time criticizing anyone who thought voters were under any kind of due-diligence requirements. I don't... so I don't.

The problem with any form of democracy is that it's governed by human nature and our tendency to form mobs. This was recognized seemingly when the first "democracies" formed, so the republic was created in an attempt to put a layer between the mob and the government. But that's like civics 101. But I bring it up because when the voter isn't voting on specific issues, but for a guy who promises to vote a certain way on specific issues (and may not be truthful) you get apathy.

So I find getting "thoughtful voters" secondary to getting voters period. I mean we seem to average in this country about 50-60% turnout on Presidential election years and much lower during midterms. To me, the solution to getting those numbers up is easy because we do it here in WA; ballot by mail.

Now on the issue of getting more thoughtful voters... That's much harder. And unfortunately we're so polarized in America that the broadcast networks could run a 2 hour special on each candidate and it's almost certain that one or both sides will ignore all the bad things said about their choice assuming they don't change the channel to the History channel to watch a show about dumpster divers "pickers" or whichever freak show TLC is airing.

So really, it starts by hammering it into people from a young age that you don't just vote, but you vote after researching the Candidates and issues. But even then, the Candidate could just lie like George W Bush.

[Flagg]

My belief is that you can divide people into those who have an ethical core, and those who do not.

Honestly, the only thing Pence has ever done to my knowledge that makes me doubt the existence of his ethical core, is in choosing to associate with and enable a man who is the poster boy for lacking one.

He wouldn't be the first person to switch his morals off in a policy debate. For some reason people always expect that to be a good idea.

Well yeah. I don't want the guy governing me, but if he set up a (real) charity I think he could do a lot of good.

[Gandalf]

So I find getting "thoughtful voters" secondary to getting voters period. I mean we seem to average in this country about 50-60% turnout on Presidential election years and much lower during midterms. To me, the solution to getting those numbers up is easy because we do it here in WA; ballot by mail.

Why not compulsory voting? It works fine here.

[Broomstick]

My belief is that you can divide people into those who have an ethical core, and those who do not.

Honestly, the only thing Pence has ever done to my knowledge that makes me doubt the existence of his ethical core, is in choosing to associate with and enable a man who is the poster boy for lacking one.

He wouldn't be the first person to switch his morals off in a policy debate. For some reason people always expect that to be a good idea.

Here's the thing about Pence: before everything else he is a Christian. He has stated that very clearly more than once.

What that means is that he is an American Protestant evangelical Christian that puts that before everything else in life. That is his "ethical core" - which he absolutely does have.

Now, because "Christian interests" and "human interests" have a considerable overlap on a lot of things he comes across as a decent, caring person. The problem is when you get to certain particular issues, such as abortion or gay/transgender issues. Then you might wind up smashing headlong into his "ethical core".

We saw this when the "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" was passed in this state. Arguments that it would adversely impact Indiana, cost the state jobs and money had no impact because he thought the economic damage was outweighed by the moral good of imposing his moral precepts to the state laws.

So... yeah, Mike Pence is probably all for free speech and criticism of government officials because it in no way contradicts his religious principles. The Bible says nothing about gun ownership so he's fine with the US 2nd Amendment and will follow his constituents' lead. But his religion is opposed to homosexuality so he doesn't have a problem with passing anti-gay laws and indeed has proved willing to do so even if there is a dollar cost. Freedom of religion? Well, as long as you conform to Christian rules of conduct (i.e. he's willing to pass laws enshrining Christian rules as the societal norm) you can practice your religion as long as they don't conflict with that. In other words, you can be non-Christian as long as you don't bother the Christians by being such. Your religion allows gay marriage? - so sorry, that's in conflict with Pence's Christianity so you can't do that in Indiana. That's the man's attitude and that is what he did as governor.

Just as there are some Republicans who are in that camp because of economic ideology Pence is in that party due to religious ideology. He'll bend on economic issues - unless they conflict with his brand of Christian ethics. Just as economic Republicans really don't give a damn about what religion you are, but will fight to the bitter end for their brand economics no matter how insane it gets.

So... if Pence thinks Trump is more likely to promote what he considers a pro-Christian agenda of course he's going to back Trump over someone he thinks will promote an agenda that violates Pence's brand of Christinaity - which a tolerance of homosexuality and transexual transitioning does in Pence's mind.

See, that's the thing - other than the religious bullshit I feel I could actually tolerate four years of Pence. Because I've already lived four years with him as governor. Other than the religious bullshit he wasn't horrible - the problem being that the religious bullshit WAS horrible. But we were able to get him to back down somewhat on the RFRA, even if we couldn't get him to back down on his anti-LGBQT bullshit. Pence also did not engage in threatening his opposition as Trump does. Pence disagrees with gay/trans people but did not threaten to throw protesters in jail or drown those who opposed him in lawsuits. In other words, he's an adult and professional politician.

I sure as hell don't like some of what he did as governor (I mean, I did sign a recall petition for him) but given a choice between Trump and Pence I'd rather have Pence in the oval office because I think he'd be less of a screw up, and less likely to embarrass the US internationally.

[Iroscato]

Perhaps I've been too harsh in my previous assessments of Pence, I got the impression he was your run-of-the-mill swivel-eyed fundie crackpot during the election, seems there's a shred of humanity in there somewhere at least then.


If that's the case, let's get this impeachment ball rolling again, baby!

[The Romulan Republic]

I have a feeling a lot of Democrats will want to keep Trump around, in the belief that he'll be easier to beat in four years.

Considering how many people insisted Trump couldn't possibly win the primary, and then how many insisted he couldn't possibly win the general election, I personally consider that assumption deeply stupid.

But its a moot point unless you could get enough of the Vichy Republicans to stand up to him to impeach him.

[Iroscato]

They do seem to be falling in line rather rapidly, like the good little bitches they are. So that's not exactly filling me with hope.

[Flagg]

So I find getting "thoughtful voters" secondary to getting voters period. I mean we seem to average in this country about 50-60% turnout on Presidential election years and much lower during midterms. To me, the solution to getting those numbers up is easy because we do it here in WA; ballot by mail.

Why not compulsory voting? It works fine here.

That, too. The only reason I didn't mention it is because the conservoshits acted like it was some great injustice and imposition, even an impeachable offense (I'm not kidding), when carbon filament light bulbs were effectively "banned" in favor of compact fluorescent (and now even better because even more efficient and no mercury LED bulbs) bulbs. I'm not even joking. They had a sad because they were "forced" to buy light bulbs that used far less power and lasted far longer which saved them money. Which is why everyone points out how stupid they are.

Now imagine the Government making them vote.

[Flagg]

I have a feeling a lot of Democrats will want to keep Trump around, in the belief that he'll be easier to beat in four years.

Considering how many people insisted Trump couldn't possibly win the primary, and then how many insisted he couldn't possibly win the general election, I personally consider that assumption deeply stupid.

But its a moot point unless you could get enough of the Vichy Republicans to stand up to him to impeach him.

It's funny how rightwing shits who assumed (like everyone) that Clinton would win were calling for her impeachment before the election and how outraged the left was by that, and now how the leftwing shits are calling for Donnie Douchebag's impeachment before he's even been sworn in.

[Highlord Laan]

So I find getting "thoughtful voters" secondary to getting voters period. I mean we seem to average in this country about 50-60% turnout on Presidential election years and much lower during midterms. To me, the solution to getting those numbers up is easy because we do it here in WA; ballot by mail.

Why not compulsory voting? It works fine here.

That, too. The only reason I didn't mention it is because the conservoshits acted like it was some great injustice and imposition, even an impeachable offense (I'm not kidding), when carbon filament light bulbs were effectively "banned" in favor of compact fluorescent (and now even better because even more efficient and no mercury LED bulbs) bulbs. I'm not even joking. They had a sad because they were "forced" to buy light bulbs that used far less power and lasted far longer which saved them money. Which is why everyone points out how stupid they are.

Now imagine the Government making them vote.

They vote anyway. How do you think Il Duce and the bastards coming in on his coattails got elected? Compulsory Voting would have got all the lazy jackasses to the polls, even if only to avoid a fine. Even if Il Duce still made it in, at least a majority of people would have actually voted.

And nobody bring up the uninformed voter argument. It's not like 99% of the populace even gives a shit. They paint by letter and you know it. If a large group of stupid people are going to fuck it up anyway, at least make sure a larger percentage of them can actually be blamed for it.

[Joun_Lord]

It's funny how rightwing shits who assumed (like everyone) that Clinton would win were calling for her impeachment before the election and how outraged the left was by that, and now how the leftwing shits are calling for Donnie Douchebag's impeachment before he's even been sworn in.

Man, I've been laughing my ass off at the hypocritical nature of both sides. I mean its not surprising, about as surprising as water being wet, but still the mental disconnect is a bit astonishing.

There is of course what you said, the right wing rejects whining about Benghazi and the emails and what other bullshit charges they could.....Trump up (heh) and calling for her impeachment then the lefty loons doing the exact same fucking thing about tRump's bullshit with his school and crap.

But other shit too. The lefties wanting to run to Canada just like right wing gasbags wanted to do when Obama was elected or when Obamneycare was passed (despite Canada actually having actual Commie socialist universal healthcare and not the shitty abomination that is still better then what we had before that is ACA).

The dumbasses in Failifornia wanting to play some IRL Fallout and secede from US to create the New California Republic so they can get their butts beat by closeted dudes in skirts armed with pointy sticks because their candidate didn't win, boo fucking hoo. The exact same fucking thing minus the Fallout references that Chucklefuck Norris and others in Texas wanted to do when Obama was elected with Carlos wanting to be President of Texas. And people made fun of Norris about, called him a traitor, and whiny baby and also failed fundie Christian actor who is the King Midas of shit yet is inexplicably loved by the internet because of the fucking stupid as fucking fuck Chuck Norris facts. Okay maybe the last part was just me. Here's a real CHuck Norris fact, Chuck Norris loves America and the Constitution soooooooo much he wants to secede from the country and wants to shit all over the Constitution by removing the separation of Church and State and wanted to elect Mike Huckabee, as assclown so bad he makes Trump almost.......almost look like Presidential material in comparison.

Seriously fuck Chuck Norris.

Where was I? Oh yeah, whiny bitches on both sides whining.

Another thing they are both doing is acting like its the end of the nation when the opposing candidate gets elected. Dems did it when Bush got relected and probably when he was first elected (I don't remember but in my defense I was an angsty ass teen at the time so I've been trying to actively forget that time period), Repubs did it when Obama got elected and now Donny Trump some fucking how despite all odds and common sense got elected and OH NOES the Americas is going down the shitter, its the end of the US, the Constitution is toilet paper. I mean for fucks sake, Trump is a massive piece of shit but he ain't the end of America or the world and he ain't going to do anything untoward to the Constitution beyond proverbially shit on it as President after President has done before. Probably not going to be a nice 4 or 8 years but the 8 years of Obama weren't nice for some people (like anyone trying to buy a gun without paying out the ass) and the 8 years of Bush weren't nice for several countries and the world economy and the 8 years of Clinton weren't nice for anyone wanting to own a penis compensating assault weapon. While shittons of brown people in foreign lands aren't here after those Presidents America is still here, the world is still here, there were no FEMA death camps or mass slaughter of minorities (mostly) or all white people forcefully reverse Micheal Jacksoned or anything of the sort.

One thing I will say that liberats are doing different from conservaturds is making goddamn petitions, always with the petitions. I'm so sick and tired of these goddamn petitions on this motherfucking internet. Petitions don't do squat (which don't exist), certainly aren't going to sway the fucking election or get pumpkin Hitler impeached and email harpy put in office to be impeached, goddamn I'm in the mood for some peaches. Seems like every fucking hot button issue these days there is some stupid ass petition. I mean I have little room to talk sitting here behind a computer screen I need to clean bitching into the void, but goddamn you lazy fucks, if you want change get off your asses. Signing some shit on the internet don't do shit, no matter how many petitions you fire at Obama Firefly won't get uncanceled and EA won't give up the Star Wars game license. Hope and change into a truck ain't going to come from signing some bullshit, that only thing that does is makes people feel better about themselves while doing jack and shit.

The ONLY thing I can say positive about conservative assholes really is the fact they don't CONSTANTLY make stupid fucking petitions. I mean they do petitions too, some idiots did a few petitions to have a bunch of states secede back in 2012 starring John Cusack, so they aren't off the hook but they don't do petitions in such stupid volume. Way to go conservatives, you might be a bunch of idiots with terrifying views on gays, women, and war but you don't sign a petition everytime someone stubs their toe, yay for you, have a cookiee but not really because fuck you thems my cookiees.

This whole election is really illustrating just how stupid alot of people are. And theres probably something ironic about that statement.

[FireNexus]

And Trump has switched his Medicare phaseout position. He GOP must expect 2020 to be a slaughter at all levels if they're willing to push this before the midterms. I can feel the wax from Paul Ryan's wings dripping on my head already.

[TheFeniX]

Now on the issue of getting more thoughtful voters... That's much harder. And unfortunately we're so polarized in America that the broadcast networks could run a 2 hour special on each candidate and it's almost certain that one or both sides will ignore all the bad things said about their choice assuming they don't change the channel to the History channel to watch a show about dumpster divers "pickers" or whichever freak show TLC is airing.

Everything I've seen over the past few years keeps pointing to Americans in general becoming more and more moderate. The problem, as far as I can see, is our political parties have become more polarized and we're forced to vote for one (or throw a vote into the 3rd party dumpster) or just not vote, which a lot of people seem to pick as their option.

However, as against compulsory voting as I am in principal, IN PRACTICE: ~100% of the population voting would require the parties to either revamp their primary system and give us candidates we give a shit about or at the least they'd have to court the moderate vote, especially single-issue voters.

Downside as far as I can see is the party pushing compulsory voting being hammered by pissed-off voters and the possibility of even more blatant gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

This is interesting, though ultimately irrelevant:

Hillary Clinton now 1.7 million votes ahead of Donald Trump

Democrat pulls ahead as last remaining votes counted - despite losing overall election to billionaire businessman

Source

[Simon_Jester]

It's funny how rightwing shits who assumed (like everyone) that Clinton would win were calling for her impeachment before the election and how outraged the left was by that, and now how the leftwing shits are calling for Donnie Douchebag's impeachment before he's even been sworn in.

I think it's more like "Look at this man. Do you really think he can refrain from committing any impeachable offenses in the next four years?" If so it might be his longest crime-free streak in decades...

And Trump has switched his Medicare phaseout position. He GOP must expect 2020 to be a slaughter at all levels if they're willing to push this before the midterms. I can feel the wax from Paul Ryan's wings dripping on my head already.

Er... switched it to what, exactly?

[Flagg]

It's funny how rightwing shits who assumed (like everyone) that Clinton would win were calling for her impeachment before the election and how outraged the left was by that, and now how the leftwing shits are calling for Donnie Douchebag's impeachment before he's even been sworn in.

Man, I've been laughing my ass off at the hypocritical nature of both sides. I mean its not surprising, about as surprising as water being wet, but still the mental disconnect is a bit astonishing.

There is of course what you said, the right wing rejects whining about Benghazi and the emails and what other bullshit charges they could.....Trump up (heh) and calling for her impeachment then the lefty loons doing the exact same fucking thing about tRump's bullshit with his school and crap.

But other shit too. The lefties wanting to run to Canada just like right wing gasbags wanted to do when Obama was elected or when Obamneycare was passed (despite Canada actually having actual Commie socialist universal healthcare and not the shitty abomination that is still better then what we had before that is ACA).

The dumbasses in Failifornia wanting to play some IRL Fallout and secede from US to create the New California Republic so they can get their butts beat by closeted dudes in skirts armed with pointy sticks because their candidate didn't win, boo fucking hoo. The exact same fucking thing minus the Fallout references that Chucklefuck Norris and others in Texas wanted to do when Obama was elected with Carlos wanting to be President of Texas. And people made fun of Norris about, called him a traitor, and whiny baby and also failed fundie Christian actor who is the King Midas of shit yet is inexplicably loved by the internet because of the fucking stupid as fucking fuck Chuck Norris facts. Okay maybe the last part was just me. Here's a real CHuck Norris fact, Chuck Norris loves America and the Constitution soooooooo much he wants to secede from the country and wants to shit all over the Constitution by removing the separation of Church and State and wanted to elect Mike Huckabee, as assclown so bad he makes Trump almost.......almost look like Presidential material in comparison.

Seriously fuck Chuck Norris.

Where was I? Oh yeah, whiny bitches on both sides whining.

Another thing they are both doing is acting like its the end of the nation when the opposing candidate gets elected. Dems did it when Bush got relected and probably when he was first elected (I don't remember but in my defense I was an angsty ass teen at the time so I've been trying to actively forget that time period), Repubs did it when Obama got elected and now Donny Trump some fucking how despite all odds and common sense got elected and OH NOES the Americas is going down the shitter, its the end of the US, the Constitution is toilet paper. I mean for fucks sake, Trump is a massive piece of shit but he ain't the end of America or the world and he ain't going to do anything untoward to the Constitution beyond proverbially shit on it as President after President has done before. Probably not going to be a nice 4 or 8 years but the 8 years of Obama weren't nice for some people (like anyone trying to buy a gun without paying out the ass) and the 8 years of Bush weren't nice for several countries and the world economy and the 8 years of Clinton weren't nice for anyone wanting to own a penis compensating assault weapon. While shittons of brown people in foreign lands aren't here after those Presidents America is still here, the world is still here, there were no FEMA death camps or mass slaughter of minorities (mostly) or all white people forcefully reverse Micheal Jacksoned or anything of the sort.

One thing I will say that liberats are doing different from conservaturds is making goddamn petitions, always with the petitions. I'm so sick and tired of these goddamn petitions on this motherfucking internet. Petitions don't do squat (which don't exist), certainly aren't going to sway the fucking election or get pumpkin Hitler impeached and email harpy put in office to be impeached, goddamn I'm in the mood for some peaches. Seems like every fucking hot button issue these days there is some stupid ass petition. I mean I have little room to talk sitting here behind a computer screen I need to clean bitching into the void, but goddamn you lazy fucks, if you want change get off your asses. Signing some shit on the internet don't do shit, no matter how many petitions you fire at Obama Firefly won't get uncanceled and EA won't give up the Star Wars game license. Hope and change into a truck ain't going to come from signing some bullshit, that only thing that does is makes people feel better about themselves while doing jack and shit.

The ONLY thing I can say positive about conservative assholes really is the fact they don't CONSTANTLY make stupid fucking petitions. I mean they do petitions too, some idiots did a few petitions to have a bunch of states secede back in 2012 starring John Cusack, so they aren't off the hook but they don't do petitions in such stupid volume. Way to go conservatives, you might be a bunch of idiots with terrifying views on gays, women, and war but you don't sign a petition everytime someone stubs their toe, yay for you, have a cookiee but not really because fuck you thems my cookiees.

This whole election is really illustrating just how stupid alot of people are. And theres probably something ironic about that statement.

Well, TBF Trump is a special case in that he's not been dogwhistling shit about hating Muslims, etc, he's been bullhorning it. So I get people being scared shitless. But yeah, the hypocrisy is funny.

[FireNexus]

And Trump has switched his Medicare phaseout position. He GOP must expect 2020 to be a slaughter at all levels if they're willing to push this before the midterms. I can feel the wax from Paul Ryan's wings dripping on my head already.

Er... switched it to what, exactly?

Light on details at the moment, but looking like support of the Ryan voucher plan. Apparently only for people younger than 55, but I doubt that's going to keep AARP from dropping the lobbying hammer on Republicans.

[Flagg]

And Trump has switched his Medicare phaseout position. He GOP must expect 2020 to be a slaughter at all levels if they're willing to push this before the midterms. I can feel the wax from Paul Ryan's wings dripping on my head already.

Er... switched it to what, exactly?

Light on details at the moment, but looking like support of the Ryan voucher plan. Apparently only for people younger than 55, but I doubt that's going to keep AARP from dropping the lobbying hammer on Republicans.

They damned well better.