2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

[The Romulan Republic]

I wouldn't count on that.

Certainly, it would be foolish to underestimate Trump, who has a way of winning when all the experts say he can't. But at the same time... he lost the popular vote. Most Americans don't want him now, and unless he surprises everyone and actually does a good job (hard to imagine), I doubt his support is going to go any higher than it already is. A few tens of thousands of votes different in three states would have cost him the White House.

Their are also probably a certain number of voters who vote R out of loyalty or on one or two issues, and are going to regret that once they get a taste of what unrestrained Republican government is really like (i.e. losing their Medicare/student loans/Social Security/health insurance).

Though I fully expect to get creamed in the House in 2018 regardless of how the public feels about the Alt. Right, because the House is gerrymandered to hell. I hope that that almost certain defeat doesn't convince the Democrats that Trump's brand of politics is here to stay and they need to ditch the progressives and move to the Right. The test of Trump is 2020, not 2018.

[Gandalf]

I wouldn't count on that.

GWB lost the popular vote in 2000. In 2004 he had twelve million more votes. He illegally started an unwinnable war and broke all sorts of laws. He remains free.

Today, most of the country may not like the alt-right, but based on turnout they're certainly not bothered enough to do anything about it.

[The Romulan Republic]

GWB got reelected because:

a) 911.

b) The Democrats ran a shitty candidate against him.

Edit: Unfortunately, though, if their's one person I can see being sociopathic enough to deliberate start a war to boost his reelection bid, its Donald Trump.

[Gandalf]

GWB got reelected because:

a) 911.

b) The Democrats ran a shitty candidate against him.

I get it. The American people wanted blood, and Bush promised them a crusade throughout the Holy Land. Kerry was a fine candidate who committed the gross crime of not being a chest thumping maniac when the voters apparently the populace wanted King Conan.

It's still a pretty damning indictment of the voting populace.

[The Romulan Republic]

Kerry may have been fine on the issues, but he had the charisma of a wet paper towel.

And wartime incumbents tend to win. This is nothing new, or even purely a desire for vengeance.

Edit: And frankly, George Bush wasn't Trump. I fully expect Trump to make a far bigger clusterfuck of our government than even Bush did.

[Zaune]

It's times like this when I think back to my father scoffing at President Bush's unshakeable faith that history will look back on him kindly. Boy, did he miss the mark on that one.

[Iroscato]

Fuck, even I'm getting nostalgic and misty-eyed for the days of Dubya over here.

(Not really, but I fear Trump will make him look like an absolute genius of a leader in comparison)

[Highlord Laan]

Fuck, even I'm getting nostalgic and misty-eyed for the days of Dubya over here.

(Not really, but I fear Trump will make him look like an absolute genius of a leader in comparison)

I find myself hoping that Il Duce's presidency is such an almighty clusterfuck, so much a total and complete failure on every level, that it does irreparable damage to the fascist-light party and the so-called "cause" of conservatism. So much so that being a republican becomes a badge of shame. Never happen, but these are the people that nominated and elected a man for whom the KKK is holding a victory parade.

And the last time I checked, nazis cheering for you is a bad thing.

EDIT: I must apologize. Calling Donnie Douchecanoe "Il Duce" is an unwarranted insult. To Mussolini. He at least got trains to run on time. His successor can't even run a hotel chain.

[Flagg]

Fuck, even I'm getting nostalgic and misty-eyed for the days of Dubya over here.

(Not really, but I fear Trump will make him look like an absolute genius of a leader in comparison)

I find myself hoping that Il Duce's presidency is such an almighty clusterfuck, so much a total and complete failure on every level, that it does irreparable damage to the fascist-light party and the so-called "cause" of conservatism. So much so that being a republican becomes a badge of shame. Never happen, but these are the people that nominated and elected a man for whom the KKK is holding a victory parade.

And the last time I checked, nazis cheering for you is a bad thing.

EDIT: I must apologize. Calling Donnie Douchecanoe "Il Duce" is an unwarranted insult. To Mussolini. He at least got trains to run on time. His successor can't even run a hotel chain.

Thank you for refraining from using my copyrighted and trademarked Donnie Douchebag.

Speaking of, he's said he's going to ban NASA from climate change research.

[Flagg]

GWB got reelected because:

a) 911.

b) The Democrats ran a shitty candidate against him.

I get it. The American people wanted blood, and Bush promised them a crusade throughout the Holy Land. Kerry was a fine candidate who committed the gross crime of not being a chest thumping maniac when the voters apparently the populace wanted King Conan.

It's still a pretty damning indictment of the voting populace.

To be fair, he was never reelected. The first term was an appointment by SCOTUS.

[Simon_Jester]

It occurs to me that Trump has such a big mouth that he'll probably be saying he's going to do horrible things at an extremely high pace, for the duration of his presidency. We may need to learn to only be alarmed when he actually does them.

EDIT: I must apologize. Calling Donnie Douchecanoe "Il Duce" is an unwarranted insult. To Mussolini. He at least got trains to run on time. His successor can't even run a hotel chain.

Honestly, the trains never did run on time, Mussolini just puffed himself up and acted like they did and people believed him because of the puffery.

Mussolini's Italy was a fairly badly managed state, as their WWII performance illustrated. While it may well be that Trump is even worse at managing things than Mussolini was, Mussolini was not good at it.

[Gerald Tarrant]

Speaking of, he's said he's going to ban NASA from climate change research.

Isn't climate NOAA's bailiwick?

[Broomstick]

NOAA is weather forecasting. NASA is weather research. (Roughly. There is of course some overlap.)

Remember, "NASA" stands for National Aeronautics and Space Agency - weather research comes under the "aeronautics" part.

[Simon_Jester]

I suspect NOAA does some research that is highly relevant to climate science, and/or funds others who do. But I know NASA does. Among other things, because satellite data is very important to measuring or understanding climate.

NOAA operates some of its own satellites, but NASA operates a lot too.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes, both NOAA and NASA do weather research. NASA, however, does more (as has been said, a lot of NOAA funding goes to forecasting and related activities). And so do several other large research organizations.

NOAA's Oceanic and Atmospheric Research division has an annual budget of ~$500 million, which is separate from the budgets of the National Weather Service, National Ocean Service, and National Environmental Satellite, Data & Info Service (not sure if these organizations have their own research divisions, though). NASA's budget for weather research is around $3.6 billion, about a third of which goes to their satellite observation programs that I can tell.

In addition, the NSF has around $2.7 billion in annual weather research, the Department of Energy and EPA each have around $900 million in weather research programs, while the USGS and USDA each have about $200 million spread across their Climate Variability Science, Land Use Change, and Environmental Stewardship programs.

So, NASA and the NSF are the real heavy-hitters for climate change research in the U.S., but NOAA isn't a slouch, either.

[Flagg]

Speaking of, he's said he's going to ban NASA from climate change research.

Isn't climate NOAA's bailiwick?

While it would be horribly ironic for Donnie Douchebag Putin's Whore to not know which agency does what, they both do a lot of research.

[Lost Soal]

I see the plan of attack for everything they don't like. The common repeated line coming out is that they can be done by other agencies. Climate research can be done by other agencies, the FCC should be stripped down to just licensing spectrum while all the other regulatory stuff can be done by other agencies, which you can bet will not get increased budgets to deal with the increased responsibilities. The fact he plans to cut taxes on everything means they'll get their budgets cut if anything.

[Gandalf]

Kerry may have been fine on the issues, but he had the charisma of a wet paper towel.

And wartime incumbents tend to win. This is nothing new, or even purely a desire for vengeance.

What difference does it make if a candidate isn't charismatic or that there's a "war" on? Are you saying that American voters such mush heads that they just follow the nicest or most warlike hair regardless of the policies underneath?

Edit: And frankly, George Bush wasn't Trump.

Of course Trump isn't Bush. But Trump's campaign is effectively the 2016 version of the 2004 one. The Bush years and the fallout/lack thereof showed that Bush could have gone further and faced fuck all consequences. Now Trump effectively has a Bush precedent for all sorts of things from torture to invasions. Boots to faces, it's the American way!

[Alyrium Denryle]

Kerry may have been fine on the issues, but he had the charisma of a wet paper towel.

And wartime incumbents tend to win. This is nothing new, or even purely a desire for vengeance.

What difference does it make if a candidate isn't charismatic or that there's a "war" on? Are you saying that American voters such mush heads that they just follow the nicest or most warlike hair regardless of the policies underneath?

Edit: And frankly, George Bush wasn't Trump.

Of course Trump isn't Bush. But Trump's campaign is effectively the 2016 version of the 2004 one. The Bush years and the fallout/lack thereof showed that Bush could have gone further and faced fuck all consequences. Now Trump effectively has a Bush precedent for all sorts of things from torture to invasions. Boots to faces, it's the American way!

No, what he is saying is that campaigning is more than simply policy. Get your head out of your ass. We don't have mandatory voting here (as much as I would like it). Candidates have to not just be preferred to their opposition, but they have to motivate them enough to sacrifice their time to go and actually vote. This requires charisma. It requires even more charisma when there are active measures taken to suppress turnout by local election officials.

Kerry did not have that. Bush for all his faults did.

We tend to re-elect war-time presidents because people are reluctant to change leadership when they are uncertain about the future. It is not a huge numerical bias, but it is big enough to swing an election.

[The Romulan Republic]

Clinton's popular vote count has passed 2 million...

Fuck the Electoral College.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Oh TRR...
You silly person...
Don't you know that you hide votes are in California and New York and so they "don't count"? And "everyone knows" that those are votes by illegal immigrants and dead people anyways... I read it online so it must be true!

[aerius]

Clinton's popular vote count has passed 2 million...

Fuck the Electoral College.

Your assumption is that Trump would run the same campaign if the presidency was decided by the popular vote. You are wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us/po ... .html?_r=1

Excerpt:

TRUMP: More than 180,000 voted, and votes are still coming in from the military, which we are getting about 85 percent of.

So we won that by a lot of votes and, you know, we had a great victory. We had a great victory. I think it would have been easier because I see every once in awhile somebody says, ‘Well, the popular vote.’ Well, the popular vote would have been a lot easier, but it’s a whole different campaign. I would have been in California, I would have been in Texas, Florida and New York, and we wouldn’t have gone anywhere else. Which is, I mean I’d rather do the popular vote from the standpoint — I’d think we’d do actually as well or better — it’s a whole different campaign. It’s like, if you’re a golfer, it’s like match play versus stroke play. It’s a whole different game.

But I think the popular vote would have been easier in a true sense because you’d go to a few places. I think that’s the genius of the Electoral College. I was never a fan of the Electoral College until now.

SULZBERGER: Until now.

[laughter]

TRUMP: Until now. I guess now I like it for two reasons. What it does do is it gets you out to see states that you’ll never see otherwise. It’s very interesting. Like Maine. I went to Maine four times. I went to Maine 2 for one, because everybody was saying you can get to 269 but there is no path to 270. We learned that was false because we ended up with what, three-something.

Trump is right. You're looking at a person who understands the system and how to game it vs. a dumbass who gave away a half dozen States. It's like putting an alpha male shitlord against a fatty nerd in a club and seeing who can pickup the most women, the shitlord's gonna win every time because he knows how to play the game and score while the nerd is completely lost.

[Flagg]

Clinton's popular vote count has passed 2 million...

Fuck the Electoral College.

Your assumption is that Trump would run the same campaign if the presidency was decided by the popular vote. You are wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us/po ... .html?_r=1

Excerpt:

TRUMP: More than 180,000 voted, and votes are still coming in from the military, which we are getting about 85 percent of.

So we won that by a lot of votes and, you know, we had a great victory. We had a great victory. I think it would have been easier because I see every once in awhile somebody says, ‘Well, the popular vote.’ Well, the popular vote would have been a lot easier, but it’s a whole different campaign. I would have been in California, I would have been in Texas, Florida and New York, and we wouldn’t have gone anywhere else. Which is, I mean I’d rather do the popular vote from the standpoint — I’d think we’d do actually as well or better — it’s a whole different campaign. It’s like, if you’re a golfer, it’s like match play versus stroke play. It’s a whole different game.

But I think the popular vote would have been easier in a true sense because you’d go to a few places. I think that’s the genius of the Electoral College. I was never a fan of the Electoral College until now.

SULZBERGER: Until now.

[laughter]

TRUMP: Until now. I guess now I like it for two reasons. What it does do is it gets you out to see states that you’ll never see otherwise. It’s very interesting. Like Maine. I went to Maine four times. I went to Maine 2 for one, because everybody was saying you can get to 269 but there is no path to 270. We learned that was false because we ended up with what, three-something.

Trump is right. You're looking at a person who understands the system and how to game it vs. a dumbass who gave away a half dozen States. It's like putting an alpha male shitlord against a fatty nerd in a club and seeing who can pickup the most women, the shitlord's gonna win every time because he knows how to play the game and score while the nerd is completely lost.

Doubt it. Trump is a narcissist egomaniacal psychopath who literally believes that he is the best at everything he does despite being horrible at everything he does. He got lucky in winning the election because the voters that normally vote for the Democrats stayed home. It also helped that he just lied the entire campaign and blamed fact checking on a "rigged" media, all 3 times fact checking was done.

[The Romulan Republic]

And regardless of weather Trump would have campaigned differently had it been based on popular vote, the numbers do show definitively that more individual voters did choose Clinton than Trump.

Which I take as a small silver lining, because it shows that Trump is not the new voice of the American people, and his politics are not the new norm. Disturbingly popular, yes, but still rejected by the electorate as a whole.

[ArmorPierce]

Kerry may have been fine on the issues, but he had the charisma of a wet paper towel.

And wartime incumbents tend to win. This is nothing new, or even purely a desire for vengeance.

Edit: And frankly, George Bush wasn't Trump. I fully expect Trump to make a far bigger clusterfuck of our government than even Bush did.

I actually suspect Trump to be better than Bush.

Like Bush, I think Trump will pretty much allow others to dictate policy. Unlike Bush, I don't think Trump cares about maintaining political alliances and will certainly be the boss calling the final shots and will hold those beneath him accountable for not getting things done. Also Bush experienced the mixed blessing of 9/11. It both sealed his fate of being the president responsible for one of the biggest cock-ups in american history, but also virtually guaranteed his second term re-election because of the distraction from the economy.