2016 US ELECTION: Official Results Thread

[Dominus Atheos]

Flagg, I really don't have the energy to get in to one of your little "shepards pie" pedantic meltdowns.

[Flagg]

Flagg, I really don't have the energy to get in to one of your little "shepards pie" pedantic meltdowns.

So basically, you're just going to insult me with no content rather than admitting the point? Nice.

[Terralthra]

Sec. Clinton's voters this year exceeded President Obama's from 2012. Rethink your assumptions.

Do you not understand how basic math works?

Voter turnout overall was at a 20-year low this election. The Democrats had 26.5% turnout, versus 30.6% in 2012 (and 33.7% in 2008). Literally every single source I can find with a cursory Google search indicates that Hillary had lower turnout than Obama did four years ago in every major demographic. Clinton had 65,149,785 total votes. Obama had 65,915,795.

Where are you getting this idea that Clinton's voters exceed Obama's? This flies in direct contradiction to facts the rest of the world has known for almost a month.

Vote counts are still in process in California, Oregon, and Washington, among a few others. Clinton's current (slim: 700,000 votes or just barely 1%) margin behind Obama is projected to vanish.

[Flagg]

Yeah, WA votes by mail, so it can take awhile. I think OR does, too. Still doesn't really matter since the Fucktoral College hampers democracy on a Federal level.

[Thanas]

#drainingtheswampbyfillingitwithbribemoney

This week, in #DrainTheSwamp news:

A former Goldman Sachs banker (whose father was also a Goldman Sachs banker), Hollywood movie producer, and hedge fund manager has been appointed head of the Treasury Department.
Donald Trump dined at Jean-Georges with a former private equity titan who is being considered for Secretary of State.
He has also met with the president of Goldman Sachs and the head of the world’s largest hedge fund.
A billionaire distressed-debt investor has been selected to head the Commerce Department.
He joins a fellow billionaire—an Amway heiress and major political donor—who will be running the Department of Education.
The new transportation secretary is the wife of the Senate majority leader. She was also George W. Bush’s labor secretary, and was so popular with her coworkers that they held a “good riddance” party when she left.
Using corporate welfare, Donald Trump has managed to keep 1,000 jobs in Indiana, as the U.S. “has been losing more than 300,000 manufacturing jobs each year to overseas competition.”
Access to Donald Trump, Mike Pence, their family members, and their cabinet secretaries can be purchased off a menu ($25k-$1 million) by wealthy donors to the Presidential Inaugural Committee.

The dastardly elites will surely have much to fear from this band of outsiders.

#DrainTheSwamp

[Flagg]

#drainingtheswampbyfillingitwithbribemoney

This week, in #DrainTheSwamp news:

A former Goldman Sachs banker (whose father was also a Goldman Sachs banker), Hollywood movie producer, and hedge fund manager has been appointed head of the Treasury Department.
Donald Trump dined at Jean-Georges with a former private equity titan who is being considered for Secretary of State.
He has also met with the president of Goldman Sachs and the head of the world’s largest hedge fund.
A billionaire distressed-debt investor has been selected to head the Commerce Department.
He joins a fellow billionaire—an Amway heiress and major political donor—who will be running the Department of Education.
The new transportation secretary is the wife of the Senate majority leader. She was also George W. Bush’s labor secretary, and was so popular with her coworkers that they held a “good riddance” party when she left.
Using corporate welfare, Donald Trump has managed to keep 1,000 jobs in Indiana, as the U.S. “has been losing more than 300,000 manufacturing jobs each year to overseas competition.”
Access to Donald Trump, Mike Pence, their family members, and their cabinet secretaries can be purchased off a menu ($25k-$1 million) by wealthy donors to the Presidential Inaugural Committee.

The dastardly elites will surely have much to fear from this band of outsiders.

#DrainTheSwamp

I'm so fucking done with this country. Every time we take even a tiny step forward the dumbshit brigade kneecaps us and we fall down a flight of stairs. And we do it to ourselves.

[The Romulan Republic]

Thank the EC.

It gave us George II, and now its given us Trump.

Which means that every Republican President/President-elect who's won since the '80s (or in my entire God damn lifetime) did so because the EC overturned the popular vote.

[K. A. Pital]

But these are the rules created by your country historically, guys. If you don't like, there's almost 200 other countries.

[J]

#drainingtheswampbyfillingitwithbribemoney

This week, in #DrainTheSwamp news:

A former Goldman Sachs banker (whose father was also a Goldman Sachs banker), Hollywood movie producer, and hedge fund manager has been appointed head of the Treasury Department.

Do you not know of the 23rd unwritten rule of finance which states that all Treasury Secretaries must be Goldman-Sachs alumni?

[The Romulan Republic]

But these are the rules created by your country historically, guys. If you don't like, there's almost 200 other countries.

So its wrong to ever disagree with how your country is run or think it should be reformed? Of if you don't like it, you should just leave?

And if that's not what you're saying... honestly, I'm not sure what your point its.

[K. A. Pital]

I am saying that if the country's political system continously produces a result that is not to your liking, but it does not change much over time either, maybe you are in the wrong country... that is all. It does not mean you should just leave, but you can certainly consider it.

It is good to disagree and try to change your country. But at some point, even you might realize that some thing will not change within your lifetime, because what you would like to happen and what actually happens in the country are too different. What then?

[Flagg]

Thank the EC.

It gave us George II, and now its given us Trump.

Which means that every Republican President/President-elect who's won since the '80s (or in my entire God damn lifetime) did so because the EC overturned the popular vote.

Dude, you never need to say bad things about the Fucktoral college to me. It's undemocratic, giving a handful of states control over who wins Presidential elections. And I'm not a halfway "assign electors based on percentage of each states vote count", it needs to just be abolished. Unfortunately that will probably not happen any time soon. It would require a constitutional amendment and the ones benefitting from it won't give away their ticket to ride.

But Bill Clinton and Obama won both the electoral and popular vote, so yeah, the EC is a bullshit undemocratic system, but if people actually get out and fucking vote like they are supposed to (as in vote, not necessarily for the candidate of my choosing) you don't have these issues. So the system sucks, but apathetic and purely ideological voters can just go to hell.

But this is when the left eats its own. I mean we have people claiming Clinton was the worst Presidential candidate in US history which is so hyperbolic it almost comes full circle into punching yourself in the face.

[Flagg]

I am saying that if the country's political system continously produces a result that is not to your liking, but it does not change much over time either, maybe you are in the wrong country... that is all. It does not mean you should just leave, but you can certainly consider it.

It is good to disagree and try to change your country. But at some point, even you might realize that some thing will not change within your lifetime, because what you would like to happen and what actually happens in the country are too different. What then?

I've been there for years. But due to being disabled and with no special marketable skills I can't really do anything since no country that I find politically acceptable will take me. And I'm not bitter about that, it's perfectly understandable.

[ArmorPierce]

I'm not sure we can one-time stimulate the economy that way a second time, ArmorPierce.

Plus, it's been several years since the last recession, and the fundamentals may well take a cyclic downturn on Trump anyway. His tools for fighting that are pretty limited, especially with Republicans in Congress.

...

I hold the opinion that recession has been staved off due to constrained economic growth. There has not been a surge in economic growth following the past recession like there has been in many prior recessions.

If Trump is in office for 4 years I project that he will get out without a recession it only see the initial stage as he exits the office. If he does a second term we will almost certainly see a trump recession.

I also forgot to add tax cuts...so deregulation, tax cuts and infrastructure projects to fuel a heated phase of economic growth followed by a recession and democratic president that Republicans will blame for the recession.

[Flagg]

I'm not sure we can one-time stimulate the economy that way a second time, ArmorPierce.

Plus, it's been several years since the last recession, and the fundamentals may well take a cyclic downturn on Trump anyway. His tools for fighting that are pretty limited, especially with Republicans in Congress.

...

I hold the opinion that recession has been staved off due to constrained economic growth. There has not been a surge in economic growth following the past recession like there has been in many prior recessions.

If Trump is in office for 4 years I project that he will get out without a recession it only see the initial stage as he exits the office. If he does a second term we will almost certainly see a trump recession.

I also forgot to add tax cuts...so deregulation, tax cuts and infrastructure projects to fuel a heated phase of economic growth followed by a recession and democratic president that Republicans will blame for the recession.

I just wonder if he'll steal all the silverware when he leaves office.

[Broomstick]

Sadly, I cannot imagine that we get through four years without a single major terrorist attack, especially with President Moron the Muslim Basher as President.

Trump is a lot of things, but I'd never describe him as a "moron". He actually does have some smarts. Not as much smarts as ego, but a lot of people have underestimated him to their later sorrow.

I don't think Donald Trump is going to run for a second term regardless.

Did you think he was going to get a first term?

I'm not Armor Pierce, but as soon as Trump got the Republican nomination I knew there was a real chance he'd get elected.

[Broomstick]

But these are the rules created by your country historically, guys. If you don't like, there's almost 200 other countries.

Sure - I just have to abandon my spouse to move to one. Not to mention that quite a few aren't interested in folks over 50. If I was 25 and single it would be a completely different matter.

[Flagg]

Sadly, I cannot imagine that we get through four years without a single major terrorist attack, especially with President Moron the Muslim Basher as President.

Trump is a lot of things, but I'd never describe him as a "moron". He actually does have some smarts. Not as much smarts as ego, but a lot of people have underestimated him to their later sorrow.

I don't think Donald Trump is going to run for a second term regardless.

Did you think he was going to get a first term?

I'm not Armor Pierce, but as soon as Trump got the Republican nomination I knew there was a real chance he'd get elected.

I didn't. I'm not embarrassed to say that I didn't think he had much of a chance given his demeanor and how fucking repugnant he is and always has been. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voters. What seems to have happened is that turnout in solid blue states was high and in swing states low. Which makes sense given that apparently Clinton will have the same or higher number of votes than Obama did in his 2012 trouncing of Romney.

[jwl]

Sadly, I cannot imagine that we get through four years without a single major terrorist attack, especially with President Moron the Muslim Basher as President.

Trump is a lot of things, but I'd never describe him as a "moron". He actually does have some smarts. Not as much smarts as ego, but a lot of people have underestimated him to their later sorrow.

Did you think he was going to get a first term?

I'm not Armor Pierce, but as soon as Trump got the Republican nomination I knew there was a real chance he'd get elected.

I didn't. I'm not embarrassed to say that I didn't think he had much of a chance given his demeanor and how fucking repugnant he is and always has been. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voters. What seems to have happened is that turnout in solid blue states was high and in swing states low. Which makes sense given that apparently Clinton will have the same or higher number of votes than Obama did in his 2012 trouncing of Romney.

If that's the case you could argue the electoral collage is more representative than the popular vote, because it may be the number of electors per state is proportional to the number of eligible voters rather than the number of people who voted. That's worth considering, I think.

[Dragon Angel]

I pretty much knew he had a chance of being elected, else I may have (keyword: may, given other candidates he ran against...) sit this one out. I very much didn't like Hillary either.

Anyway, yeah, I'd love to change countries too but I have no resources and am likely to not in...years. And I have a bunch of illnesses to deal with. And I'm jobless and can't get disability. So, oops?

[General Zod]

Trump is a lot of things, but I'd never describe him as a "moron". He actually does have some smarts. Not as much smarts as ego, but a lot of people have underestimated him to their later sorrow.


I'm not Armor Pierce, but as soon as Trump got the Republican nomination I knew there was a real chance he'd get elected.

I didn't. I'm not embarrassed to say that I didn't think he had much of a chance given his demeanor and how fucking repugnant he is and always has been. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voters. What seems to have happened is that turnout in solid blue states was high and in swing states low. Which makes sense given that apparently Clinton will have the same or higher number of votes than Obama did in his 2012 trouncing of Romney.

If that's the case you could argue the electoral collage is more representative than the popular vote, because it may be the number of electors per state is proportional to the number of eligible voters rather than the number of people who voted. That's worth considering, I think.

It's actually not if you do the math. California has 55 EVs and Kansas has 6. That means it takes 300,000 more people on California's behalf to earn an electoral vote, so your vote really counts less if you live in a more populous state.

[Flagg]

Trump is a lot of things, but I'd never describe him as a "moron". He actually does have some smarts. Not as much smarts as ego, but a lot of people have underestimated him to their later sorrow.


I'm not Armor Pierce, but as soon as Trump got the Republican nomination I knew there was a real chance he'd get elected.

I didn't. I'm not embarrassed to say that I didn't think he had much of a chance given his demeanor and how fucking repugnant he is and always has been. Never underestimate the stupidity of the American voters. What seems to have happened is that turnout in solid blue states was high and in swing states low. Which makes sense given that apparently Clinton will have the same or higher number of votes than Obama did in his 2012 trouncing of Romney.

If that's the case you could argue the electoral collage is more representative than the popular vote, because it may be the number of electors per state is proportional to the number of eligible voters rather than the number of people who voted. That's worth considering, I think.

It's not. If you think it's more democratic for a minority of voters to hand a federal election to someone despite an overwhelming majority of people who voted choosing the other candidate, I don't know what to tell you. My vote in WA matters less than it did in FL (even though SCROTUS overruled the actual vote count when they set a precedent they ruled against in later election cases by appointing The Cocaine Cowboy) by a significant amount. That doesn't sound like, look like, or feel like democracy.

[Knife]

It's only more representative if you live in a medium sized state. Huge states get screwed, small states get screwed, and the shithole middle gets more influence.

[Flagg]

I pretty much knew he had a chance of being elected, else I may have (keyword: may, given other candidates he ran against...) sit this one out. I very much didn't like Hillary either.

Anyway, yeah, I'd love to change countries too but I have no resources and am likely to not in...years. And I have a bunch of illnesses to deal with. And I'm jobless and can't get disability. So, oops?

That's your problem imperialist! Sorry, I was channeling Castro.

But isn't it a bitch that the people who would benefit most by relocating to a country without its social safety net being in imminent danger by an incoming regressive administration are the least able to do so?

[ArmorPierce]

I think half the reason why the democrats lost was because because of two major reasons:
1. Blind to the reality of a paradigm shift introduced by social media... the nature of social media supports populist candidates
2. Complacency and belief that it was impossible for Hillary to lose to Trump... resulted in her just attempting to maintain her position rather than take risks to energize and reach more people.

The vast majority of the public and decision-makers were blind to the paradigm shift that has occurred due to social media and smart mobile devices in the past few years that enabled Trump to reach voters and for them to support each other in non-traditional means. Add the fact that Hillary, the democratic party, and her supporters became complacent feeling that she would just inherit the throne as the anointed one, and you have a recipe for a major upset. She did nothing to energize her base and her campaign strategy appeared to distill to vote against Trump rather than a vote for what she stood for. But perhaps me not being surprised by the election was also related to me being a huge pessimist when it comes to the human condition.

This election could have been the election that split the republican party apart, but instead through major mismanagement by the democratic party they have guaranteed at least another generation of conservative control of the government. Fortunately the Millennials generation is for more liberal than prior generations, so eventually the political environment will begin to shift back to the left as the baby boomers die off.

Sort of a digression, but I've been railing about this paradigm shift for some time now, not just in politics, but also in products and services. For instance, everyone was surprised by the smash hit of the phone app pokemon go and proclaimed that nobody could see it coming, it was impossible... despite the fact I, and many others, did just that. It was obvious that a game like that would succeed in todays environment due to the paradigm shift we are part of.