Lost Soal wrote:The effectiveness of non-violent protest verses violent protest is being questioned. This shows that non-violent protest can still work and there is no need to start talking about such drastic measures, at least not yet.
If you want more Trump has a financial investment in the pipeline, so they also get to stick it to him.
Fair enough.
Their are times when violent revolt may be justified, but anyone who at this point is advocating violence over peaceful protest is, in my opinion, probably just looking for an excuse to take out their anger/satisfy their bloodlust.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Lost Soal wrote:The effectiveness of non-violent protest verses violent protest is being questioned. This shows that non-violent protest can still work and there is no need to start talking about such drastic measures, at least not yet.
If you want more Trump has a financial investment in the pipeline, so they also get to stick it to him.
I've been keeping pace with the protests, and it's nowhere near as pretty as people think. Two of my friends are Nebraska State Troopers on loan for stupid people control, and from what they've told me, the only actual nonviolent people there are the Troopers themselves. Ask social media though, and a chunk of cinder block being thrown through the passenger window of a cruiser is a totally nonviolent action, and any repercussions would obviously show how fascist and evil the State Troopers are being.
First the Keystone pipeline, now this. The brainless NIMBY idiots were given an inch after years of screaming, so now they're after a mile.
They are trying to protect the aquifer and frankly, just going around the area in concern will generate more work for more people. And seeing kids with an entire side of their face black and blue from a rubber bullet isn't garnering any good will. Pepper spraying elderly women sitting down doesn't either. I get it's a complex situation and nothing is black and white, but what goddamned harm does it do? They aren't standing there with semiautomatic rifles with women and children between them as human shields because they don't believe in paying taxes.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
The Romulan Republic wrote:While that is wonderful news, I am honestly not sure what it has to do with he election thread.
Highlord Laan said that millennials are more likely to advocate for violent as opposed to peaceful protest, Lost Soal gave an example of more or less peaceful (apparently, though I know there has been more than nonviolence) protest achieving its goal.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
I have a feeling that in Highlord Laan's case, that's very much wishful thinking (that millennials will support violence).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Flagg wrote:Yeah, the boomers faults are well known, but to add to what Simon said they were by and large very instrumental in pushing forwards the Civil Rights movement in the 70's pretty much cementing it in place that casual racism = bad.
Wasn't sure how much credit to give the bastards for that.
Highlord Laan wrote:I've been keeping pace with the protests, and it's nowhere near as pretty as people think. Two of my friends are Nebraska State Troopers on loan for stupid people control, and from what they've told me, the only actual nonviolent people there are the Troopers themselves. Ask social media though, and a chunk of cinder block being thrown through the passenger window of a cruiser is a totally nonviolent action, and any repercussions would obviously show how fascist and evil the State Troopers are being.
Because shooting people unprovoked and using water cannons in sub freezing temperatures is totally not violence.
You may want to critically check your friends' statements.
Highlord Laan wrote:First the Keystone pipeline, now this. The brainless NIMBY idiots were given an inch after years of screaming, so now they're after a mile.
Because us disrespecting treaties, defiling native burial grounds, and potentially poisoning their source of water for corporate profit is not just good, it's the American Way™.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"
The Romulan Republic wrote:While that is wonderful news, I am honestly not sure what it has to do with he election thread.
Highlord Laan said that millennials are more likely to advocate for violent as opposed to peaceful protest, Lost Soal gave an example of more or less peaceful (apparently, though I know there has been more than nonviolence) protest achieving its goal.
I said that the violent outlook was becoming more known among Millennials, not that the generation as a whole was more likely to advocate for it. And no, RR. It's not wishful thinking on my part. I find it downright alarming, because once that path gets started, the political violence quickly becomes the standard.
Never underestimate the ingenuity and cruelty of the Irish.
Flagg wrote:Yeah, the boomers faults are well known, but to add to what Simon said they were by and large very instrumental in pushing forwards the Civil Rights movement in the 70's pretty much cementing it in place that casual racism = bad.
Wasn't sure how much credit to give the bastards for that.
My choice of words underlines Laan's point.
Yeah, I give them credit on the issue of casual racism as opposed to the reinforcement of institutional racism because it was the very bastards who voted in candidates from the WW2 generation that tried the pushback in the 80's with Reagan who made his announcement as candidate talking about "states rights" in the town where the 3 civil rights activists were murdered and when elected started the mass incarcerations. That continued under Bush, Clinton, and Bush-the-dumber. Obama was rolling it back but I figure President-Elect Douchebag will roll back the rollback and then some.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
The Romulan Republic wrote:While that is wonderful news, I am honestly not sure what it has to do with he election thread.
Highlord Laan said that millennials are more likely to advocate for violent as opposed to peaceful protest, Lost Soal gave an example of more or less peaceful (apparently, though I know there has been more than nonviolence) protest achieving its goal.
I said that the violent outlook was becoming more known among Millennials, not that the generation as a whole was more likely to advocate for it. And no, RR. It's not wishful thinking on my part. I find it downright alarming, because once that path gets started, the political violence quickly becomes the standard.
Sorry, you're right. My wording was poor.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Highlord Laan wrote:I've been keeping pace with the protests, and it's nowhere near as pretty as people think. Two of my friends are Nebraska State Troopers on loan for stupid people control, and from what they've told me, the only actual nonviolent people there are the Troopers themselves. Ask social media though, and a chunk of cinder block being thrown through the passenger window of a cruiser is a totally nonviolent action, and any repercussions would obviously show how fascist and evil the State Troopers are being.
Because shooting people unprovoked and using water cannons in sub freezing temperatures is totally not violence.
You may want to critically check your friends' statements.
Highlord Laan wrote:First the Keystone pipeline, now this. The brainless NIMBY idiots were given an inch after years of screaming, so now they're after a mile.
Because us disrespecting treaties, defiling native burial grounds, and potentially poisoning their source of water for corporate profit is not just good, it's the American Way™.
Yeah, I don't believe law enforcement as a matter of course and won't until they give me reason to. I didn't see water cannons when federal officials had militia pointing guns at them and threatening to use their women and children as human shields because some rich cunt didn't want to pay millions in grazing fees.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Its a touchy subject for me, I admit. It worries me a great deal that we seem to be moving towards widespread political violence lately in America, and elsewhere in the world. I don't think most people (myself included, if I'm being honest) have the slightest idea how horrible that would be.
I just want to take anyone who thinks that's a good idea, force them to watch 24 hours of unedited footage from Syria, ask them to picture that only happening on their street, and to their family, and then ask them:
"What the fucking hell are you thinking?"
Of course, it probably wouldn't be that bad. Maybe it would only be a few hundred dead people. Only a few hundred lives.
But political violence can escalate. Their's a riot or a bombing. Trump cracks down on it (this is a man who has praised China's handling of Tiananmen Square, as I recall). More violence to protest the crackdown. A harsher crackdown...
And in any case, any use of political violence, to me, is a direct attack on the principles of democratic government. Forcing your political views on the country at gun point is the very antithesis of democracy. I find it philosophically/morally repulsive, regardless of the scale of the physical damage done.
The only case where violence could be justified would be defensive necessity, and the only case where it could be justified on a national scale would be against a genocidal campaign of mass murder or enslavement. But I draw a distinction between political and defensive violence (though I recognize that the line can become very blurry).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
The Romulan Republic wrote:And in any case, any use of political violence, to me, is a direct attack on the principles of democratic government. Forcing your political views on the country at gun point is the very antithesis of democracy. I find it philosophically/morally repulsive, regardless of the scale of the physical damage done.
So, what do you think those militia hippies in Oregon were doing? How about all those black guys who keep getting murdered by the police who promptly get off no matter how much evidence is stacked against them because they are the police? How about when regular citizens curb stomp a transgender woman or a random Muslim or someone they decide looks like a transgender woman or Muslim while shouting "TRUMP!" and get handled with kids gloves and sentenced to stupidly light punishments even if they are convicted of something? How about all those pregnant women who are forced to carry fetuses they don't want to term because they were prevented from getting abortions by the local government, or have to submit to having some probe thing shoved up their vaginas so they can be forced to look at the ultrasound pictures in hopes that they'll feel guilty or violated enough to give up on the whole thing?
Political violence is already happening. It's been happening for awhile. If you seriously think otherwise than you're either out of touch or seriously in denial.
The Romulan Republic wrote:And in any case, any use of political violence, to me, is a direct attack on the principles of democratic government. Forcing your political views on the country at gun point is the very antithesis of democracy. I find it philosophically/morally repulsive, regardless of the scale of the physical damage done.
So, what do you think those militia hippies in Oregon were doing? How about all those black guys who keep getting murdered by the police who promptly get off no matter how much evidence is stacked against them because they are the police? How about when regular citizens curb stomp a transgender woman or a random Muslim or someone they decide looks like a transgender woman or Muslim while shouting "TRUMP!" and get handled with kids gloves and sentenced to stupidly light punishments even if they are convicted of something? How about all those pregnant women who are forced to carry fetuses they don't want to term because they were prevented from getting abortions by the local government, or have to submit to having some probe thing shoved up their vaginas so they can be forced to look at the ultrasound pictures in hopes that they'll feel guilty or violated enough to give up on the whole thing?
Political violence is already happening. It's been happening for awhile. If you seriously think otherwise than you're either out of touch or seriously in denial.
You make a really good point.
I got to thinking about it though, and the boomers anti-war movement had more than a bit of actual violence from terrorist groups like the weather underground so I question the conclusion that millennials have a more violent outlook when it comes to politics. The only thing that would really make sense is if the open carry crowd is included. I admit I could be mistaken, but I'd like to see the reports Highlord Laan mentioned for myself because it really makes me curious and I find it interesting.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Ralin wrote:How about when regular citizens curb stomp a transgender woman or a random Muslim or someone they decide looks like a transgender woman or Muslim while shouting "TRUMP!" and get handled with kids gloves and sentenced to stupidly light punishments even if they are convicted of something?
Honest question: how much evidence do we actually have that this is happening? Most of the stories I've seen circulating social media describing these incidents end up being debunked once anybody actually looks into it.
Ralin wrote:How about when regular citizens curb stomp a transgender woman or a random Muslim or someone they decide looks like a transgender woman or Muslim while shouting "TRUMP!" and get handled with kids gloves and sentenced to stupidly light punishments even if they are convicted of something?
Honest question: how much evidence do we actually have that this is happening? Most of the stories I've seen circulating social media describing these incidents end up being debunked once anybody actually looks into it.
I posted a thread of 2 incidents of people threatening Muslim women while shouting "TRUMP!" and ethnic/racial slurs in just NYC. One of them got arrested because the Muslim woman in question was an off duty police officer. Granted, these were cases of threats as opposed to curb stomping, but Donnie Douchebag hasn't even been sworn in and all of the Nazis "Alt-Right" are crawling out from the sewer like the evil slime from Ghostbusters 2.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Lost Soal wrote:The effectiveness of non-violent protest verses violent protest is being questioned. This shows that non-violent protest can still work and there is no need to start talking about such drastic measures, at least not yet.
If you want more Trump has a financial investment in the pipeline, so they also get to stick it to him.
I've been keeping pace with the protests, and it's nowhere near as pretty as people think. Two of my friends are Nebraska State Troopers on loan for stupid people control, and from what they've told me, the only actual nonviolent people there are the Troopers themselves. Ask social media though, and a chunk of cinder block being thrown through the passenger window of a cruiser is a totally nonviolent action, and any repercussions would obviously show how fascist and evil the State Troopers are being.
First the Keystone pipeline, now this. The brainless NIMBY idiots were given an inch after years of screaming, so now they're after a mile.
How about treaty violation?
The Native American Indians have been subjected to constant treaty violation whenever the government felt it fit. According to the constitution, treaties take precedent over law... of course you can contend that reality and precedence illustrates that Native American Indian treaties are just about as good as toilet paper.
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@ To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
Lost Soal wrote:The effectiveness of non-violent protest verses violent protest is being questioned. This shows that non-violent protest can still work and there is no need to start talking about such drastic measures, at least not yet.
If you want more Trump has a financial investment in the pipeline, so they also get to stick it to him.
I've been keeping pace with the protests, and it's nowhere near as pretty as people think. Two of my friends are Nebraska State Troopers on loan for stupid people control, and from what they've told me, the only actual nonviolent people there are the Troopers themselves. Ask social media though, and a chunk of cinder block being thrown through the passenger window of a cruiser is a totally nonviolent action, and any repercussions would obviously show how fascist and evil the State Troopers are being.
First the Keystone pipeline, now this. The brainless NIMBY idiots were given an inch after years of screaming, so now they're after a mile.
How about treaty violation?
The Native American Indians have been subjected to constant treaty violation whenever the government felt it fit. According to the constitution, treaties take precedent over law... of course you can contend that reality and precedence illustrates that Native American Indian treaties are just about as good as toilet paper.
Remember that even SCOTUS decisions upholding treaties with Native Americans were ignored by President Andrew Jackoffson who ordered the forced death march "relocation" known as the Trail of Tears.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
Why I Will Not Cast My Electoral Vote for Donald Trump
By CHRISTOPHER SUPRUNDEC. 5, 2016
Credit Mike McQuade
DALLAS — I am a Republican presidential elector, one of the 538 people asked to choose officially the president of the United States. Since the election, people have asked me to change my vote based on policy disagreements with Donald J. Trump. In some cases, they cite the popular vote difference. I do not think president-elects should be disqualified for policy disagreements. I do not think they should be disqualified because they won the Electoral College instead of the popular vote. However, now I am asked to cast a vote on Dec. 19 for someone who shows daily he is not qualified for the office.
Fifteen years ago, as a firefighter, I was part of the response to the Sept. 11 attacks against our nation. That attack and this year’s election may seem unrelated, but for me the relationship becomes clearer every day.
George W. Bush is an imperfect man, but he led us through the tragic days following the attacks. His leadership showed that America was a great nation. That was also the last time I remember the nation united. I watch Mr. Trump fail to unite America and drive a wedge between us.
Mr. Trump goes out of his way to attack the cast of “Saturday Night Live” for bias. He tweets day and night, but waited two days to offer sympathy to the Ohio State community after an attack there. He does not encourage civil discourse, but chooses to stoke fear and create outrage.
This is unacceptable. For me, America is that shining city on a hill that Ronald Reagan envisioned. It has problems. It has challenges. These can be met and overcome just as our nation overcame Sept. 11.
The United States was set up as a republic. Alexander Hamilton provided a blueprint for states’ votes. Federalist 68 argued that an Electoral College should determine if candidates are qualified, not engaged in demagogy, and independent from foreign influence. Mr. Trump shows us again and again that he does not meet these standards. Given his own public statements, it isn’t clear how the Electoral College can ignore these issues, and so it should reject him.
I have poured countless hours into serving the party of Lincoln and electing its candidates. I will pour many more into being more faithful to my party than some in its leadership. But I owe no debt to a party. I owe a debt to my children to leave them a nation they can trust.
Mr. Trump lacks the foreign policy experience and demeanor needed to be commander in chief. During the campaign more than 50 Republican former national security officials and foreign policy experts co-signed a letter opposing him. In their words, “he would be a dangerous president.” During the campaign Mr. Trump even said Russia should hack Hillary Clinton’s emails. This encouragement of an illegal act has troubled many members of Congress and troubles me.
Hamilton also reminded us that a president cannot be a demagogue. Mr. Trump urged violence against protesters at his rallies during the campaign. He speaks of retribution against his critics. He has surrounded himself with advisers such as Stephen K. Bannon, who claims to be a Leninist and lauds villains and their thirst for power, including Darth Vader. “Rogue One,” the latest “Star Wars” installment, arrives later this month. I am not taking my children to see it to celebrate evil, but to show them that light can overcome it.
Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s pick for national security adviser, has his own checkered past about rules. He installed a secret internet connection in his Pentagon office despite rules to the contrary. Sound familiar?
Finally, Mr. Trump does not understand that the Constitution expressly forbids a president to receive payments or gifts from foreign governments. We have reports that Mr. Trump’s organization has business dealings in Argentina, Bahrain, Taiwan and elsewhere. Mr. Trump could be impeached in his first year given his dismissive responses to financial conflicts of interest. He has played fast and loose with the law for years. He may have violated the Cuban embargo, and there are reports of improprieties involving his foundation and actions he took against minority tenants in New York. Mr. Trump still seems to think that pattern of behavior can continue.
The election of the next president is not yet a done deal. Electors of conscience can still do the right thing for the good of the country. Presidential electors have the legal right and a constitutional duty to vote their conscience. I believe electors should unify behind a Republican alternative, an honorable and qualified man or woman such as Gov. John Kasich of Ohio. I pray my fellow electors will do their job and join with me in discovering who that person should be.
Fifteen years ago, I swore an oath to defend my country and Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. On Dec. 19, I will do it again.
If this guy actually follows through with what he's saying he'll do, what will this mean?
If he's the only one who does it? Nothing. If some dozens of others out of the 300 or so electors whose states went to Trump do the same thing? Election gets kicked to the House of Representatives, then they get to pick whoever the hell they want as far as I can tell.
Simon_Jester wrote:If he's the only one who does it? Nothing. If some dozens of others out of the 300 or so electors whose states went to Trump do the same thing? Election gets kicked to the House of Representatives, then they get to pick whoever the hell they want as far as I can tell.
If a couple dozen of them cast their electoral ballots for Sec. Clinton, she wins, no need for the House to get involved.
Why I Will Not Cast My Electoral Vote for Donald Trump
By CHRISTOPHER SUPRUNDEC. 5, 2016
Credit Mike McQuade
DALLAS — I am a Republican presidential elector, one of the 538 people asked to choose officially the president of the United States. Since the election, people have asked me to change my vote based on policy disagreements with Donald J. Trump. In some cases, they cite the popular vote difference. I do not think president-elects should be disqualified for policy disagreements. I do not think they should be disqualified because they won the Electoral College instead of the popular vote. However, now I am asked to cast a vote on Dec. 19 for someone who shows daily he is not qualified for the office.
Fifteen years ago, as a firefighter, I was part of the response to the Sept. 11 attacks against our nation. That attack and this year’s election may seem unrelated, but for me the relationship becomes clearer every day.
George W. Bush is an imperfect man, but he led us through the tragic days following the attacks. His leadership showed that America was a great nation. That was also the last time I remember the nation united. I watch Mr. Trump fail to unite America and drive a wedge between us.
Mr. Trump goes out of his way to attack the cast of “Saturday Night Live” for bias. He tweets day and night, but waited two days to offer sympathy to the Ohio State community after an attack there. He does not encourage civil discourse, but chooses to stoke fear and create outrage.
This is unacceptable. For me, America is that shining city on a hill that Ronald Reagan envisioned. It has problems. It has challenges. These can be met and overcome just as our nation overcame Sept. 11.
The United States was set up as a republic. Alexander Hamilton provided a blueprint for states’ votes. Federalist 68 argued that an Electoral College should determine if candidates are qualified, not engaged in demagogy, and independent from foreign influence. Mr. Trump shows us again and again that he does not meet these standards. Given his own public statements, it isn’t clear how the Electoral College can ignore these issues, and so it should reject him.
I have poured countless hours into serving the party of Lincoln and electing its candidates. I will pour many more into being more faithful to my party than some in its leadership. But I owe no debt to a party. I owe a debt to my children to leave them a nation they can trust.
Mr. Trump lacks the foreign policy experience and demeanor needed to be commander in chief. During the campaign more than 50 Republican former national security officials and foreign policy experts co-signed a letter opposing him. In their words, “he would be a dangerous president.” During the campaign Mr. Trump even said Russia should hack Hillary Clinton’s emails. This encouragement of an illegal act has troubled many members of Congress and troubles me.
Hamilton also reminded us that a president cannot be a demagogue. Mr. Trump urged violence against protesters at his rallies during the campaign. He speaks of retribution against his critics. He has surrounded himself with advisers such as Stephen K. Bannon, who claims to be a Leninist and lauds villains and their thirst for power, including Darth Vader. “Rogue One,” the latest “Star Wars” installment, arrives later this month. I am not taking my children to see it to celebrate evil, but to show them that light can overcome it.
Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Mr. Trump’s pick for national security adviser, has his own checkered past about rules. He installed a secret internet connection in his Pentagon office despite rules to the contrary. Sound familiar?
Finally, Mr. Trump does not understand that the Constitution expressly forbids a president to receive payments or gifts from foreign governments. We have reports that Mr. Trump’s organization has business dealings in Argentina, Bahrain, Taiwan and elsewhere. Mr. Trump could be impeached in his first year given his dismissive responses to financial conflicts of interest. He has played fast and loose with the law for years. He may have violated the Cuban embargo, and there are reports of improprieties involving his foundation and actions he took against minority tenants in New York. Mr. Trump still seems to think that pattern of behavior can continue.
The election of the next president is not yet a done deal. Electors of conscience can still do the right thing for the good of the country. Presidential electors have the legal right and a constitutional duty to vote their conscience. I believe electors should unify behind a Republican alternative, an honorable and qualified man or woman such as Gov. John Kasich of Ohio. I pray my fellow electors will do their job and join with me in discovering who that person should be.
Fifteen years ago, I swore an oath to defend my country and Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. On Dec. 19, I will do it again.
If this guy actually follows through with what he's saying he'll do, what will this mean?
He may be breaking the law in his state and if so, could be prosecuted. I'd love to think that there will be some electoral college revolt, but I really doubt it, it's just too good to be true. And odds are the powers that be will find some way to overrule them, most likely by having the House of Representatives choose Obama's successor and that choice could worse than Trump. But if it happened and Clinton were awarded victory I would expect the Republicans to howl with rage saying she stole the vote despite being ahead in the popular vote by millions.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
If by "howl with rage" you mean "march on Washington with guns", quite possibly. To the radical Teabaggers, it would be confirmation of all the propaganda they've ever been fed. Because fuck the will of the people.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.
I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Simon_Jester wrote:If he's the only one who does it? Nothing. If some dozens of others out of the 300 or so electors whose states went to Trump do the same thing? Election gets kicked to the House of Representatives, then they get to pick whoever the hell they want as far as I can tell.
If a couple dozen of them cast their electoral ballots for Sec. Clinton, she wins, no need for the House to get involved.
Yeah, but doesn't the Senate have to verify and confirm the result? I recall Gore being forced to give the 2000 election to Bush as he performed the VP rule as president of the Senate. I don't see Republicans doing that for Clinton in a case of widespread "faithless electors" so then it would go to the House, right?
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
The Romulan Republic wrote:If by "howl with rage" you mean "march on Washington with guns", quite possibly. To the radical Teabaggers, it would be confirmation of all the propaganda they've ever been fed. Because fuck the will of the people.
I'm talking about the Party members in government. If the great unwashed masses show up in DC with guns (which while more likely than the EC doing anything but electing Trump, is something I can't, or my mind won't, see happen) it shockingly may not be open Rebellion. Though if is was I don't know that the Police or Army would fire on them if ordered.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan
You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan
He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw