Star Wars: Rebels

[Galvatron]

I imagine there was a lot of anger. Anger for what the Empire did to the Senate. Anger for simply creating the Death Star. Anger for the destruction of Alderaan. If there were many fence-sitters before ANH, I bet there weren't many afterward.

[FaxModem1]

I enjoyed the latest episode, but something felt missing. Ezra didn't really ever have a moment of clarity with Hondo, which seems to be what they were setting up. I get why, Hondo is a fun character and they want to have him in future episodes, but this seems like they brought up Ezra losing his trust in Hondo, and just sort of pushed it to the side.

Still, at least we got to see Dark Troopers.

[Burak Gazan]

Fellas, they AINT Dark Troopers... they 'droids BASED on them
And, WTH was the deal with Ezra? He have brain damage? He's blasting away there, and ONLY pulls out the lightsabre AFTER swinging across on the line? Gimmee a frapping break!
Ay Yi Yi

[RogueIce]

Yeah, remember that scene with the tractor beam operator in HTTE? This feels like that, very much.

Also significant in that it's obviously sabotage (notice how Ezra is reacting even before the worker gets on the bike; he knows this will end badly). What'll be interesting is whether or not that Worker was involved with the sabotage or whether he's essentially a victim because Thrawn is one step ahead of the Rebels - again.

[Rogue 9]

That's the old family friend Ezra and Zeb rescued in Fighter Flight back in the first season. This is just going to end up blowing his and Kanan's cover as he saves the poor gentlemen, and they have a big fight scene as they escape. Again.

[Adam Reynolds]

Fairly good episode, with a nice buildup to the latter half of the season.

Probably surprising no one: Spoiler

Kallus is the new Fulcrum and is a defector in place. Thrawn also seems to know, and Kallus seems to know that Thrawn is onto him, but Thrawn is likewise aware that Kallus knows this as well.

Presumably Thrawn's plan is to force several Rebel cells to converge on Lorthal so that he can destroy all of them at once. The production line of TIE defenders will presumably be destroyed before it can be utilized, which explains why they are not seen in the films given that they are otherwise superior.

Though TIE defenders might just be inferior in agility to interceptors, given that they waste mass on shields.

Though I do have one question now. If TIE Interceptors were already in use before Yavin, why did the Death Star not have any? While I understand that the standard TIE is still the default, it seems odd that an important facility lacks them.

[hunter5]

This was a good episode we see the ruthless efficiency of Thrawn.

[hunter5]

Fairly good episode, with a nice buildup to the latter half of the season.

Probably surprising no one: Spoiler

Kallus is the new Fulcrum and is a defector in place. Thrawn also seems to know, and Kallus seems to know that Thrawn is onto him, but Thrawn is likewise aware that Kallus knows this as well.

Presumably Thrawn's plan is to force several Rebel cells to converge on Lorthal so that he can destroy all of them at once. The production line of TIE defenders will presumably be destroyed before it can be utilized, which explains why they are not seen in the films given that they are otherwise superior.

Though TIE defenders might just be inferior in agility to interceptors, given that they waste mass on shields.

Though I do have one question now. If TIE Interceptors were already in use before Yavin, why did the Death Star not have any? While I understand that the standard TIE is still the default, it seems odd that an important facility lacks them.

It might be because Tarkin underestimated the Rebel attack.

[Batman]

Remember Tarkin didn't launch any fighters, Vader did that on his own initiative. It's possible what Vader took was the 'ready 5' squadron already prepped for launch while everything else (including Interceptors) would have required refueling, arming, checking out etc.

And I agree, good episode. Interesting maneuver Ezra and Kanan used to take town that walker in their original escape, and the AT-AT crushing their AT-DP was unexpectedly creative too.

[Adam Reynolds]

That bit of cleverness actually reminded me a bit of the way Timothy Zahn always wrote his action sequences, in which both sides generally act in the most intelligent fashion possible. One wonders if that was his touch, as he was apparently somewhat involved in the writing of Thrawn.

Another nice bit of foreshadowing in this episode was the way in which Kallus was digging for information with Thrawn when they were initially interrogating the factory workers.

TIE Interceptors in this case were used by one of the most elite groups in the Empire, so they probably are still somewhat limited in use, which explains why none were used all that much until Endor when they presumably entered wider service.

[Galvatron]

TIE Interceptors in this case were used by one of the most elite groups in the Empire, so they probably are still somewhat limited in use, which explains why none were used all that much until Endor when they presumably entered wider service.

Then it seems odd that none were in use by Vader's fleet and launched to chase down the Falcon. Given the Falcon's speed and importance to Vader, you'd think the Imperials would have used their fastest fighters and most capable pilots to pursue her.

I hope the TIE defender project dies a quick and lasting death.

Did anyone else notice Governor Pryce's uniform color this time?

[RogueIce]

That's the old family friend Ezra and Zeb rescued in Fighter Flight back in the first season. This is just going to end up blowing his and Kanan's cover as he saves the poor gentlemen, and they have a big fight scene as they escape. Again.

Well, you were certainly wrong about that one.

[Adam Reynolds]

TIE Interceptors in this case were used by one of the most elite groups in the Empire, so they probably are still somewhat limited in use, which explains why none were used all that much until Endor when they presumably entered wider service.

Then it seems odd that none were in use by Vader's fleet and launched to chase down the Falcon. Given the Falcon's speed and importance to Vader, you'd think the Imperials would have used their fastest fighters and most capable pilots to pursue her.

True, but it could be explained by these more or less being the prototype before it took several years to get them into full production. Look at how long it takes to get a modern fighter into production. This would be even more true if TIE defenders took priority under Thrawn and he short changed TIE interceptor production in favor of his pet project that led to further delays in getting them into service.

Also, the Millennium Falcon is fast for a freighter, but it is still quite slow by starfighter standards. TIEs have no problem catching them. Neither do star destroyers when they are in pursuit rather than combat mode, presumably not diverting power to their shields and guns over engines. That was the point of Han's quote about"We can still outmaneuver them."

I hope the TIE defender project dies a quick and lasting death.

It might also be something of a red herring, as Thrawn is using it to cause the Rebels to unify against Lorthal so that he can take them all down. TIE defenders still probably exist, but they might not actually be intended to enter service in proper numbers.

[Galvatron]

Also, the Millennium Falcon is fast for a freighter, but it is still quite slow by starfighter standards. TIEs have no problem catching them. Neither do star destroyers when they are in pursuit rather than combat mode, presumably not diverting power to their shields and guns over engines. That was the point of Han's quote about"We can still outmaneuver them."

I think that's more of an old EU thing. I don't recall any TIE fighters overtaking the Falcon in TESB. They simply kept up with her while she was still in a state of disrepair. On the other hand, in ANH, Han sounded pretty confident that he'd be able to catch up to the fighter that fired on them after they dropped out of hyperspace in the Alderaan system:

Luke Skywalker: It sure is leaving in a big hurry. If they identify us, we're in big trouble.
Han Solo: Not if I can help it. Chewie, jam its transmissions.
Ben Kenobi: It'd be as well to let it go. It's too far out of range.
Han Solo: Not for long.

As for TIE defenders, I guess we'll see. They certainly never made an appearance in the films, but then neither did the TIE strikers before Rogue One. Then again, the strikers are closer to air speeders than starfighters so I can understand why we never saw them before.

[eMeM]

TIE Interceptors in this case were used by one of the most elite groups in the Empire, so they probably are still somewhat limited in use, which explains why none were used all that much until Endor when they presumably entered wider service.

Then it seems odd that none were in use by Vader's fleet and launched to chase down the Falcon. Given the Falcon's speed and importance to Vader, you'd think the Imperials would have used their fastest fighters and most capable pilots to pursue her.

True, but it could be explained by these more or less being the prototype before it took several years to get them into full production. Look at how long it takes to get a modern fighter into production. This would be even more true if TIE defenders took priority under Thrawn and he short changed TIE interceptor production in favor of his pet project that led to further delays in getting them into service.

Also, the Millennium Falcon is fast for a freighter, but it is still quite slow by starfighter standards. TIEs have no problem catching them. Neither do star destroyers when they are in pursuit rather than combat mode, presumably not diverting power to their shields and guns over engines. That was the point of Han's quote about"We can still outmaneuver them."

I hope the TIE defender project dies a quick and lasting death.

It might also be something of a red herring, as Thrawn is using it to cause the Rebels to unify against Lorthal so that he can take them all down. TIE defenders still probably exist, but they might not actually be intended to enter service in proper numbers.

I don't buy the red herring theory.

For one, Defenders are canon, they appeared in a mobile game (yes, I know ) and Battlefront: EA.

Two - look at what Thrawn is doing in this episode.
In the past he had no problem with letting Rebels go barely pretending that he's trying to stop them.
In this epiosde he orders a lockdown, gives orders to kill on sight and doesn't leave any doors open for Rebels to escape. Quite the opposite - the opportunity to let Rebels go in a very beliveable fashion basically presents itself, but Thrawn, as asoon as he realizes what happened, adapts to the new situation by reinforcing the vulnerable spot, and again, by this point knowing who he is against - repeats the order to shoot to kill, willing to give up his link to the larger rebellion to protect the plans.

[Shroom Man 777]

In this case, he wasn't sure who the saboteurs exactly were - they could've been non-Ghost crew people and thus non-priorities and thus killable. After all, he's after the Athena Sedullas who've got links to the high command, not just useless grunt saboteurs who are probably expendable (just like, say, that random factory worker he killed - he didn't need that guy alive to trace him to the rest of his org...). And maybe... it was a double-sided thing, if he kills the saboteurs-spies then good. If they escape... IF it forces the double-agent/Fulcrum to show his or her hand to help them escape... then that's double-good for Thrawn too, now he knows where Fulcrum is, like literally under his nose, and that can inform his next moves (as a previous poster said, Thrawn probably knows it is Kallus, Kallus probably knows Thrawn is in on him... and Thrawn knows that Kallus knows that Thrawn is in on him...). Thrawn can get things from both wins and losses... the results will inform his next, more potent moves.

[Adam Reynolds]

I think that's more of an old EU thing. I don't recall any TIE fighters overtaking the Falcon in TESB. They simply kept up with her while she was still in a state of disrepair. On the other hand, in ANH, Han sounded pretty confident that he'd be able to catch up to the fighter that fired on them after they dropped out of hyperspace in the Alderaan system:

Luke Skywalker: It sure is leaving in a big hurry. If they identify us, we're in big trouble.
Han Solo: Not if I can help it. Chewie, jam its transmissions.
Ben Kenobi: It'd be as well to let it go. It's too far out of range.
Han Solo: Not for long.

But then we also see cases in which star destroyers are able to catch the Millennium Falcon as well, both over Tatooine and Hoth. Maybe the reason the Falcon can pull it off in ANH is the same reason star destroyers can catch them in turn. When the Falcon is running with full shields, it is relatively slow. But when it diverts all power to engines, as it would presumably do when chasing down a TIE, it can catch them. When the Falcon has shields on full power, as they tend to do when being shot at by a capital ship, star destroyers can catch them when they have their own shields off.

But that would mean that a star destroyer is almost as fast as a TIE fighter when not in combat.

I don't buy the red herring theory.

For one, Defenders are canon, they appeared in a mobile game (yes, I know ) and Battlefront: EA.

Two - look at what Thrawn is doing in this episode.
In the past he had no problem with letting Rebels go barely pretending that he's trying to stop them.
In this epiosde he orders a lockdown, gives orders to kill on sight and doesn't leave any doors open for Rebels to escape. Quite the opposite - the opportunity to let Rebels go in a very beliveable fashion basically presents itself, but Thrawn, as asoon as he realizes what happened, adapts to the new situation by reinforcing the vulnerable spot, and again, by this point knowing who he is against - repeats the order to shoot to kill, willing to give up his link to the larger rebellion to protect the plans.

I suppose that is true on the red herring idea.

Anyway, I know that they are canon, but I am not sure they will enter frontline service all that much.

[Shroom Man 777]

Maybe the Empire is just that ridiculous. A redherring "bait" design still went through the proper paperwork to appear as convincing as possible to attract Rebel saboteurs (who would otherwise not attack an obvious fake decoy new weapons program) and after the maskirovka operation was finished... the designs still went through to production stage in some factories, because nobody bothered to cancel the paperwork... So like COMPNOR will be like "The designs the ISB used for their fakeout operation... reached production! What the space hells! What a waste of space money! Ysanne Isard, what gives?!" and the ISB people are like "What? The paperwork for the factories was YOUR part of the operation, cancelling the paperwork after the fakeout operation was YOUR job!" And then they decide to just use the few fighters that actually get built!

Or maybe, later, the red herring is continued in that they actually BUILT TIE Defender factories to further bait the rebels (oh shit, they're actually building that badasss fighter whose designs we stole in a high-risk operation that nearly got valuable Rebel assets killed/interrogated... time to blow up the fighter-factory in ANOTHER high-risk operation tht might get our valuable Rebel assets killed or interrogated!).

[Adam Reynolds]

That is a nice idea.

Also, love you have you back Shroom.

[Shroom Man 777]

I just need to shitpost to get my mind off actual DELLOW FELEGATES happening in my fucking country. Where everyone is either going dellow felegates or turning into Kylos. Buncha wankers.

[eMeM]

I think that's more of an old EU thing. I don't recall any TIE fighters overtaking the Falcon in TESB. They simply kept up with her while she was still in a state of disrepair. On the other hand, in ANH, Han sounded pretty confident that he'd be able to catch up to the fighter that fired on them after they dropped out of hyperspace in the Alderaan system:

Luke Skywalker: It sure is leaving in a big hurry. If they identify us, we're in big trouble.
Han Solo: Not if I can help it. Chewie, jam its transmissions.
Ben Kenobi: It'd be as well to let it go. It's too far out of range.
Han Solo: Not for long.

But then we also see cases in which star destroyers are able to catch the Millennium Falcon as well, both over Tatooine and Hoth. Maybe the reason the Falcon can pull it off in ANH is the same reason star destroyers can catch them in turn. When the Falcon is running with full shields, it is relatively slow. But when it diverts all power to engines, as it would presumably do when chasing down a TIE, it can catch them. When the Falcon has shields on full power, as they tend to do when being shot at by a capital ship, star destroyers can catch them when they have their own shields off.

In ANH, when Han and co. escape the Death Star they are chased by a bunch of TIE Fighters and the TIEs catch up to the Falcon and then proceed to fly in circles around it.

In this case, he wasn't sure who the saboteurs exactly were - they could've been non-Ghost crew people and thus non-priorities and thus killable. After all, he's after the Athena Sedullas who've got links to the high command, not just useless grunt saboteurs who are probably expendable (just like, say, that random factory worker he killed - he didn't need that guy alive to trace him to the rest of his org...)

"Thrawn: The defectors will have new disguises by now, they will hide as technicians or troopers, to gather data and escape.
Kallus: So you think the rebels are more than just saboteurs?
Thrawn: Indeed I do, Agent Kallus. These rebels are after information, likely heading to Section A2. Secure it."
At this point there is no reason to assume he knows it's the Ghost crew, but he is convinced those two are not saboteurs but spies AND they want to learn about the new weapon (Defender). His fist order is to "Secure it [Secrion A2]". Earlier he ordered everyone who tries to get to the Section A2 immediately terminated. Then we see his men tighten the security in this section, including checking IDs of the stormtroopers. Doesn't look like he wants the plans to get out.

"An unlicensed droid accessed the computer in section A2, I can only assume that they've acquired my plans. But something has changed (...). The Rebels will attempt different means of escape and we must adapt our strategy accordingly"
Then he gets the report of the rebels attacking the east gate, tells Pryce he will "play their game" and orders to deploy the walkers.
Perfect opportunity to let them go so the rest of the Alliance learns about the red herring fighter. But...

"Attention walkers. Disregard the speeders. That AT-DP is under Rebel control. Destroy it."

[Lord Revan]

Most obvious solution to the TIE Defender dilemma is that they were a limited deployment, possibly a specialist craft compared to the generalist of the Fighter and Interceptor or simply to there was delays in development, production or deployment (possibly due to rebel actions) that caused the Defender squadrons to be rare before the empire fell and First Order wasn't able to get the plans or simply didn't want to so we haven't seen them in the sequel era either.

[Galvatron]

In ANH, when Han and co. escape the Death Star they are chased by a bunch of TIE Fighters and the TIEs catch up to the Falcon and then proceed to fly in circles around it.

No, "we're coming up on their sentry ships" pretty clearly indicated that the Falcon flew right into them. The fighters didn't catch up so much as they just kept up.

[eMeM]

Kept up while flying in circles around it

[Galvatron]

When Han made the decision to fight instead of jumping to hyperspace, maybe he diverted power from the engines to the shields. That could explain why the TIEs flew circles around the Falcon during the battle.