Why I oppose war in general. (Gruesome)

[Queeb Salaron]

I'm not going to say anything here about stupid Americans fucking up their targets. This could be any little girl in any warring nation. This is why I'm a pacifist. And maybe as such I shouldn't have a say in how our country handles this war. But even so, I know I'm not alone.

Very graphical picture

Picture inlined~CO

[Warspite]

Inline the pic, man.

[jegs2]

I'm not going to say anything here about stupid Americans fucking up their targets. This could be any little girl in any warring nation. This is why I'm a pacifist. And maybe as such I shouldn't have a say in how our country handles this war. But even so, I know I'm not alone.

Yes, war is bad. We knew that already. However, it is also necessary at times. Have you seen photos of Nazi death camps with skelital inmates, Iraqi political prisoners being shot in the face, or Afagan women kneeling on a soccer field in Kabal to receive a bullet to the back of their heads? I could go on, but I think you get my point. Diplomacy doesn't end those things -- war does.

[Kuja]

I'm not going to say anything here about stupid Americans fucking up their targets.

[Stormbringer]

I'm not going to say anything here about stupid Americans fucking up their targets.

You just did. Horrible as that is that's what happens when you put military targets in civilian populations. Even the most precise munitions aren't perfect. Hell, when you're taking out missle batteries in the midst of neighborhoods even a good hit isn't always clean.

And yes, war sucks. It always does. The one eternal truth is that in war innocent die. It's a shame that it came to war.

[Montcalm]

Its sad but it will always hapened in war cause cowards place civilians near military target or hide near houses,schools or hospitals

[Queeb Salaron]

Its sad but it will always hapened in war cause cowards place civilians near military target or hide near houses,schools or hospitals

Unfortunately, the thing with Bagdhad is that it's both a military center and a civilian hotspot. I don't know if it was designed like that or not, but that's how it is. Military bases are in close proximity to hotels and commercial districts. So even weapons with the greatest accuracy, if off by the slightest fraction of a degree, can cause a scene like... well... that picture.

[Montcalm]

Its sad but it will always hapened in war cause cowards place civilians near military target or hide near houses,schools or hospitals

Unfortunately, the thing with Bagdhad is that it's both a military center and a civilian hotspot. I don't know if it was designed like that or not, but that's how it is. Military bases are in close proximity to hotels and commercial districts. So even weapons with the greatest accuracy, if off by the slightest fraction of a degree, can cause a scene like... well... that picture.

I think thats what Saddam did when he seized control of Iraq intalled military target near civilians so if he`s attacked by enemy civilians will suffer as well

[Queeb Salaron]

Its sad but it will always hapened in war cause cowards place civilians near military target or hide near houses,schools or hospitals

Unfortunately, the thing with Bagdhad is that it's both a military center and a civilian hotspot. I don't know if it was designed like that or not, but that's how it is. Military bases are in close proximity to hotels and commercial districts. So even weapons with the greatest accuracy, if off by the slightest fraction of a degree, can cause a scene like... well... that picture.

I think thats what Saddam did when he seized control of Iraq intalled military target near civilians so if he`s attacked by enemy civilians will suffer as well

But isn't that a practice used by the US as well? I mean, there aren't military bases in big cities, obviously, but I used to live near the former Fort Devins in central/western Mass. If there were an attack on Devins, my house would have been toast.

[SirNitram]

Unfortunately, the thing with Bagdhad is that it's both a military center and a civilian hotspot. I don't know if it was designed like that or not, but that's how it is. Military bases are in close proximity to hotels and commercial districts. So even weapons with the greatest accuracy, if off by the slightest fraction of a degree, can cause a scene like... well... that picture.

I think thats what Saddam did when he seized control of Iraq intalled military target near civilians so if he`s attacked by enemy civilians will suffer as well

But isn't that a practice used by the US as well? I mean, there aren't military bases in big cities, obviously, but I used to live near the former Fort Devins in central/western Mass. If there were an attack on Devins, my house would have been toast.

Only if one was quite imprecise. There is a gulf of difference between having a base near civilian areas, and putting tanks and armouries in buildings next to hospitals.

[Nathan F]

Its sad but it will always hapened in war cause cowards place civilians near military target or hide near houses,schools or hospitals

Unfortunately, the thing with Bagdhad is that it's both a military center and a civilian hotspot. I don't know if it was designed like that or not, but that's how it is. Military bases are in close proximity to hotels and commercial districts. So even weapons with the greatest accuracy, if off by the slightest fraction of a degree, can cause a scene like... well... that picture.

The exact reason Saddam put them there, and the exact reason Saddam needs to be taken out.

My friend, you are being spoon fed Iraqi propaganda, and are believing every bit of it.

[Queeb Salaron]

Its sad but it will always hapened in war cause cowards place civilians near military target or hide near houses,schools or hospitals

Unfortunately, the thing with Bagdhad is that it's both a military center and a civilian hotspot. I don't know if it was designed like that or not, but that's how it is. Military bases are in close proximity to hotels and commercial districts. So even weapons with the greatest accuracy, if off by the slightest fraction of a degree, can cause a scene like... well... that picture.

The exact reason Saddam put them there, and the exact reason Saddam needs to be taken out.

My friend, you are being spoon fed Iraqi propaganda, and are believing every bit of it.

Like I said, I don't care that this is an Iraqi child. I hate this element of war. When innocent people needlessly suffer like this, there is something fundamentally and morally wrong with whatever is causing it. In this example, because war kills innocent people, it is immoral. Granted, we're in a moral dilemma considering if we DON'T do something, Sadaam could do something worse. Fine. I know that point, regardless of how much really I believe it. That's not the point. I don't care that this is Iraqi propoganda. Hell, for all I care, Sadaam could have blown up that section of civilian housing. The point is that because of this war, innocents are dying. And they were dying long before the war. I just despise it. It sickens me to see the lack of humanity that has suddenly become pop culture. It's disgusting.

[Nathan F]

But isn't that a practice used by the US as well? I mean, there aren't military bases in big cities, obviously, but I used to live near the former Fort Devins in central/western Mass. If there were an attack on Devins, my house would have been toast.

Nope, we do not place military targets intentionally near civilian centers. If you will notice, all parts of a base that are tactically important are in the center, which has a few miles of buffer zone between them and the nearest civilian area.

Plus, you chose to live near a base, no one forced you to move near it. Most cities grow up around bases, not the other way around.

Take the city of Clarksville, TN, home of Ft. Campbell. The town has pretty much grown up around the base, not the other way around. Sure, the town was there first, but the base was placed there because of its strategic location. It is on the Cumberlan River, which is critical because of its use in transportation and shipping, and there are rail lines running through the city.

The base itself is huge, alot of it composing of firing ranges for artillery, defintely not a strategic target, and any part that would be targeted is, literally, a number of kilometers from the civilan center.

[Nathan F]

Like I said, I don't care that this is an Iraqi child. I hate this element of war. When innocent people needlessly suffer like this, there is something fundamentally and morally wrong with whatever is causing it. In this example, because war kills innocent people, it is immoral. Granted, we're in a moral dilemma considering if we DON'T do something, Sadaam could do something worse. Fine. I know that point, regardless of how much really I believe it. That's not the point. I don't care that this is Iraqi propoganda. Hell, for all I care, Sadaam could have blown up that section of civilian housing. The point is that because of this war, innocents are dying. And they were dying long before the war. I just despise it. It sickens me to see the lack of humanity that has suddenly become pop culture. It's disgusting.

No one 'likes' war. It is a horrible thing, something no one should ever have to experience, but it also is sometimes a necessary thing.

Civilian casualties are one of the horrible parts.

As I have stated before, there is a saying, "It is good that war is so horrible, lest we should grow too fond of it."

You just must realize that, while horrible, it is sometimes required.

There is also no need to keep posting this propaganda to stir up dissent against the war, as everyone in their right mind realizes how horrible it is. All that can be done now, whether you agree with it or not, is to support the troops fighting the battles, and to hope and pray for a short war with as low casualties as possible.

[jegs2]

Like I said, I don't care that this is an Iraqi child. I hate this element of war. When innocent people needlessly suffer like this, there is something fundamentally and morally wrong with whatever is causing it. In this example, because war kills innocent people, it is immoral. Granted, we're in a moral dilemma considering if we DON'T do something, Sadaam could do something worse. Fine. I know that point, regardless of how much really I believe it. That's not the point. I don't care that this is Iraqi propoganda. Hell, for all I care, Sadaam could have blown up that section of civilian housing. The point is that because of this war, innocents are dying. And they were dying long before the war. I just despise it. It sickens me to see the lack of humanity that has suddenly become pop culture. It's disgusting.

Hmmm, a blanket statement on the dislike of war ... okay. I don't like war either. Of course, nor do I like taxes or traffic, both of which irritate me.

[Joe]

Wow, that's a really infantile way of making your case. Maybe I should post a picture of a pile of dead German Jews and headline the thread "This is why I oppose pacifism."

[NecronLord]

Wow, that's a really infantile way of making your case. Maybe I should post a picture of a pile of dead German Jews and headline the thread "This is why I oppose pacifism."

Why? The "final soloution" was during the war. Incidentally, the Allied High command could have prevented much of it, as they knew about it from day one thanks to decoded german signals, they chose to do nothing so their deconding would remain unknown to the germans, rather than launch a raid on auswitz on day one (which would have killed the prisoners, but saved many others) Priorities of war.

[Joe]

Wow, that's a really infantile way of making your case. Maybe I should post a picture of a pile of dead German Jews and headline the thread "This is why I oppose pacifism."

Why? The "final soloution" was during the war. Incidentally, the Allied High command could have prevented much of it, as they knew about it from day one thanks to decoded german signals, they chose to do nothing so their deconding would remain unknown to the germans, rather than launch a raid on auswitz on day one (which would have killed the prisoners, but saved many others) Priorities of war.

That's the point. It's equally infantile.

[NecronLord]

Wow, that's a really infantile way of making your case. Maybe I should post a picture of a pile of dead German Jews and headline the thread "This is why I oppose pacifism."

Why? The "final soloution" was during the war. Incidentally, the Allied High command could have prevented much of it, as they knew about it from day one thanks to decoded german signals, they chose to do nothing so their deconding would remain unknown to the germans, rather than launch a raid on auswitz on day one (which would have killed the prisoners, but saved many others) Priorities of war.

That's the point. It's equally infantile.

Ah. Incidentally the 'reason' according to the nazi's was "the jews have conspired to pitch germany into another war"

[Enforcer Talen]

war is an atrocity. I dont think you'll find many who disagree.

[Coyote]

Nobody said war was good or fun, but it is recognized by many that it is sometimes necessary. Sometimes a war must be fought precisely to stop the kinds of things that we see like in that picture.

[kojikun]

was is an atrocity when there are alternatives. war is the gates of heaven when you're being rounded up and taken to your death.

it depends on how bad your life is before the war.

[jegs2]

Want an end to this war? Help us win it as quickly as possible. Don't know how to do that? Enlist. Too young or otherwise cannot? Send letters of support to our troops.

[Queeb Salaron]

Wow, that's a really infantile way of making your case. Maybe I should post a picture of a pile of dead German Jews and headline the thread "This is why I oppose pacifism."

Fine, go ahead. It's really no different than posting statistics. After all, this is where these statistcs come from. And if the picture of the girl offends you, just picture her as a number.

[SPOOFE]

So, Queeb, you admit that you have no idea where that picture came from. What if it was the result of Saddam's tyrannical reign over his own people? What about the hundreds of Kurds that Saddam killed? What about the public execution parades that Saddam instituted? What about Saddam's sons, who routinely go on joyrides of barbarism, such as raping a bride on her wedding night and killing her newlywed husband?

It's things like THAT that make ME support a war. To me, pacifism is short-sighted and only looks at one end of the equation. Pacifism only works when you're dealing with rational opponent. Pacifism is a luxury for those who aren't involved in a nasty situation, a means of making them feel morally superior while at the same time shirking their duty to do everything they can to end an abominable tragedy.

So forgive me if I scoff at your pacifism, and your flimsy excuses.