Rogue One (Spoilers)

[Galvatron]

Interesting interview with Gareth Edwards about recreating Tarkin by giving a relatively well-known actor a CG makeover...

[xerex]

A city ship should have the ability to broadcast the plans. The Tantive IV (under a code name) should have been the only Rebel ship within tight band transmission range or something, discovered when the Imps siezed the ship and scoured it's transmission records for the plans. Vader orders an immediate pursuit course and when they drop out of hyperspace at Tattooine there's an Alderaan 'diplomatic ship'. The rest we know...I just can't get behind the ship being present but doing nothing at all. Fight or flee, I don't care but do something.

I'd have had Vader fight through to the bridge killing all the crew only to find that the plans have already been beamed out. He touches the console and coordinates are displayed. Cut to the bridge of the Tantive IV with R2D2 and C3PO in the background. "Transmission received" 'Get us out of here now" A character turns around and we see princess leia. Cut to an external shot of the ship hiding on the edge of the solar system and then jumping to hyperspace. Then credits.

[Galvatron]

I'd have had Vader fight through to the bridge killing all the crew only to find that the plans have already been beamed out. He touches the console and coordinates are displayed. Cut to the bridge of the Tantive IV with R2D2 and C3PO in the background. "Transmission received" 'Get us out of here now" A character turns around and we see princess leia. Cut to an external shot of the ship hiding on the edge of the solar system and then jumping to hyperspace. Then credits.

Sounds like the cutscene from X-wing, but with more action. FF to 2:45...

[Gandalf]

I was just bored by this film.

The best description I've heard that it's essentially a Dirty Dozen remake in the Star Wars universe, except it has none of the charm of the original cast, and as a result the rest of it fell flat for me. The big battle at the end was the first big SW battle where I've ever felt bored. It was like a video game crossed with a toy commercial, which could be avoided had they made the characters more compelling than "Blind Martial Arts Guy," "Pilot Guy," and so on.

[Shroom Man 777]

I hate you Gands.

(crossposting from elsewhere)

I thought it was wonderful. And it was really loyal to A New Hope. It doesn't supplant it. It was so brilliant precisely because, while it showed the Rebel fleet in action (as the ANH opening crawl said, the REBEL FLEET WON ITS FIRST VICTORY, etc.) and it showed the Rebel spies being badass and the Imperial forces being the juggernaut it is... the plot was made in such a way that it would complement A New Hope perfectly, not overshadow it despite the intense action and the super-awesome total war setpieces. It made it so that if you watched ANH after Rogue One, ANH would be enhanced because Rogue One further showed/elaborated what the stakes were and just how desperate the Rebels in Yavin were after the events of Rogue One.

And... what the Rebels in Rogue One had to do to survive in such a galaxy... the personal costs they had to pay, all that jazz. The characterizations were great.

It's a miracle. How Rogue One raised ANH, putting it over, despite the fact that it showed what was possibly the greatest combined arms battle scene in Star Wars film history - an all-aspect operation from orbital capital ship-grade slobberknockers to aerospace tactical fighter action to close air support to infantry vs. armor ground warfare - without overshadowing A New Hope, while making A New Hope's desperate struggle all the more meaningful!

I think these achievements override any flaws Rogue One had in terms of pacing and scene-transitioning due to whatever editorial interferences or reshootings they had to do (and I believe those were done out of genuine attempts to make the movie even better...). The cast and crew met and surpassed the challenges of making an actual awesome Star Wars "prequel" that would serve the Original Trilogy and A New Hope well.

[Shroom Man 777]

After Return of the Jedi, George Lucas was lost from this world. It was such a tragedy and out of respect, they decided to shelve those planned prequels and special editions they thought of showing in the 1990s and 2000s.

I noticed that in the TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL 2000s Star Wars prequel movies they planned but NEVER IMPLEMENTED, there were no iconic ship designs - in every one of the planned movies they kept on changing vehicle designs, Amidala switched chrome-starships, the Jedis switched fighters, no design "stuck." Unlike in the original trilogy, where the Falcon, X-Wings and TIEs and ISDs returned with every installment. And now, with Rogue One, the first ever Star Wars movie since the 1980s - a prequel at that! - we see a return of those iconic designs!

[Abacus]

First off, I just saw the film and really enjoyed it. It had so much action that I'd been wanting to see, but now I want more. I was a Star Wars war film. Even better, I want the Vader PoV film I've talked about before in other threads. I got about 3~5 minutes of it in this one, but now I want more.

So, onto observations:


(1) Shields are in fact effective against missiles. We see this most obviously when the X-Wings are trying to dive through the planetary shield entryway. Once it closed, they were smashed across it like a canary trying to fly through a glass window.

The other clue is the (now infamous) Y-wing attack on the ISD that we saw. If you remember, the squadron commander mentions "There's a hole! Now's our chance." (or something to that effect, bottom line, he said there's a hole). *Then* they make their attack run and fire off ion missiles, thus disabling the ISD.

This would also explain perhaps why it took a planetary-defense ion cannon arrangement to disable an ISD in TESB -- it would have required the overwhelming firepower that such a system could bring to bear in order to beat past the normal shields of an ISD. Here in R1, we see that they had to wait for the shields to fall.

(2) Planetary shields block a general transmissions and ComScan -- the Rebel Fleet had no way of communicating with the surface until the hole was destroyed/made in the shield; and if they did have ComScan making observations, it gave them nothing in detail. As such it seems clear that only a comm transmission backed up by a very, very strong power supply will have a hope of sending a signal through a planetary-grade shield.

(3) The Scarif System citadel was actually an effectively designed installation -- but horribly managed. Both the General on the surface and the ISD captains in orbit were incompetent at best. Example being: lack of decently-sized fast reaction forces on the surface, lack of communication between the ISDs and the shield-gate garrison -- the TIE fighters in the garrison didn't launch until some time had already passed during the space battle. This lends credence to the idea that while it was a high security facility, Scarif was also a pit to drop off lazy or incompetent officers and men.

(4) The Citadel's information archive system was, actually, quite brilliant. A few people I know personally and here have mentioned how it seemed to be a ridiculous way to retrieve information -- but it's not. All of that sensitive data was sectioned off into individual hard drives, not connected to any network, and could only by retrieved physically. The transmission dish on the top was actually brilliant, because it means that if the Emperor or someone else with suitable clearance wished to retrieve information on an old project, they could send a transmission and have a coded transmission returned in a relatively short amount of time; all while maintaining the secrecy of the information from those without clearance.

(5) Grand Moff Tarkin assumed control of the Death Star after it's completion. He was *not* given command of it by the Emperor. You can tell in the slight verbal exchange between Krennic and Tarkin that due to the governor's high rank, Grand Moff, Krennic didn't actually feel entirely confident about opposing him -- he seemed to be cowed by Tarkin's rather ruthless demeanor. Subsequently, the Emperor obviously approved and sent Vader to both act as Tarkin's deputy and perhaps watch over him.

(6) Krennic was appointed Director of the Death Star's construction, which is why he has such a high rank. Because he is also, predominantly, a Science Officer, this explains his uniform. The cape itself seems to be a personal choice.

(7) Vader's Castle confirmed as canon. Similar to the old visual we see in different comics and video games, this new Sith Citadel sits on Mustafar -- appropriate I feel for Vader's character and is, indirectly and silently, more character development for him. The Sith Acolyte or servant that alerted him to Krennic's arrival was interesting. Hope to see more of them in the future.

(8) Scarif may be the location of the original R&D facility that produced the AT-AT walker, judging by the appearance of early-model versions -- many of which looked to be half-complete or half-built. It also makes it clear that the garrison on Scarif lacked a wide variety of support vehicles or equipment besides infantry and security droids.

(9) KX-series Security Droids (K2-SO, voiced by Alan Tudyk), remind me a lot of the Separatist built T-series tactical droids. I don't see the Emperor entrusting major tactical decisions or authority to droids the way the Separatists did, but it would be interesting to see if the KX-series droids were ever used as adjutants or assistants for officers in battlefield command positions.

(10) Rogue One has made it clear that, at least in some parts of the galaxy and especially in the ranks of the Rebel Alliance, that the memory of the Jedi and of the Force is alive and well. This seems to be a break from the image we're presented with in ANH, when Tarkin said, "The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion." The galaxy is not quite as secular or forgetful of the Jedi as we were perhaps led to believe.

(11) Saw Gerrera's character changes from the Clone Wars animated series to here were disturbing. So many questions. How did he get from Onderon in the Inner Rim to Jedha in the Mid Rim? Why did his forces move there? He had fought to liberate his homeworld from the Separatists and likely would have done the same against the Empire once they rose to power. So why in the hell is he on Jedha? Also, since when did his movement become so fanatical? There were a lot of tones to that part of the movie that seemed to compare his forces to similar real life forces and other sci-fi groups, examples being: Mujahadeen from real life Afghanistan, or the Fedaykin from Frank Herbert's Dune. His death, while a bit trumped up, seemed like they were looking for a character that could be seen as a rebel leader and then killed off without any greater plot lines being disturbed by said death.

(12) Seeing the interplay between Tarkin, Krennic, Vader, etc gave me the visual that the Empire was much more Third Reich-like in this film that it had been in previous films; especially the interaction between Krennic and Tarkin. Krennic seeking the approval from Vader or the Emperor to reinforce his authority over the Death Star, etc, has so many tones of the Third Reich, where major organizations and groups were always continually vying for power and authority -- each seeking to gain it through Hitler's favor and order.

(13) I might be wrong, but I believe we witnessed a Hammerhead-class Cruiser and not a Hammerhead-class corvette in the movie. I can't quite remember what the Rebel Admiral specified it as, but due to it's size and the power of it's engines, I'm thinking it's a cruiser. I hope it is. Because, if so, then it's the first in-canon appearance of it. Such an inclusion would help lend favor to the possibility of seeing KOTOR or SW:TOR movies or series in the future.


----


Well, that's all for now. I'll have to go back for a second and third viewing for sure. Chirrut Îmwe was my favorite character, and is obviously a Force sensitive.

[Lord Revan]

For the Jedi it could be that it's not healthy to express the "jedi religion" (to use the term Tarkin used) publically but it's there under the surface being practiced when there's no imperial eyes to see.

for Saw something clearly happend to him between the clone wars and "present day", I mean he'd be what late 30s early 40s in Rogue one but was played by a 55 year old actor who looked even older then that, not mention that both of his legs were clearly artificial (not to mention mismatched). It's possible that he he was forced to flee Orderon for what ever reason and Jedha was the best place he could find to hide while building up his forces (or it was simply the system he was hiding in at this point in time).

[Dartzap]

I was just bored by this film.

The best description I've heard that it's essentially a Dirty Dozen remake in the Star Wars universe, except it has none of the charm of the original cast, and as a result the rest of it fell flat for me. The big battle at the end was the first big SW battle where I've ever felt bored. It was like a video game crossed with a toy commercial, which could be avoided had they made the characters more compelling than "Blind Martial Arts Guy," "Pilot Guy," and so on.

This is because you've dedicated yourself to critical thinking when dissecting media. It'd be bloody odd if you'd enjoyed it! One of my key rules of happiness is to never to see a film with anyone who has done a media studies course beyond GCSE level

I've seen it twice, once in 3d and one standard. Ghost of Cushing looks significantly better in standard.

My only real criticism is that the first third was very, very jumpy in its locations. Beyond that, I have few niggles to complain about. I had initially thought the sudden romance at the end was a bit off, but considering they were staring at a miles high Shockwave headed their way, I guess certain boundaries found themselves changing.

Thought I'd caught all the Rebels cameos, but somehow missed Chopper of all things, doh.

[Shroom Man 777]

Rogue One has made it clear that, at least in some parts of the galaxy and especially in the ranks of the Rebel Alliance, that the memory of the Jedi and of the Force is alive and well. This seems to be a break from the image we're presented with in ANH, when Tarkin said, "The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion." The galaxy is not quite as secular or forgetful of the Jedi as we were perhaps led to believe.

Almost all the Jedi *are* dead, what's left are non-Jedi using catchphrases - that's like saying Greco-Roman religion isn't extinct because some people say "by Jove" or Norse religion still exist because we use days named after their figures. And one Force-faith-devout... who is seen as insane by his own best friend and fellow guardian-monk does not refute the general extinction of the Jedi. Or the arrogant proclamations of Tarkin.

+ Tarkin said that after the last great holy monument of the Jedi got nuked.

(8) Scarif may be the location of the original R&D facility that produced the AT-AT walker, judging by the appearance of early-model versions -- many of which looked to be half-complete or half-built. It also makes it clear that the garrison on Scarif lacked a wide variety of support vehicles or equipment besides infantry and security droids.

Those AT-ATs were AT-ACTs, cargo variants. I presume the "hollow" AT-ACTs were those that didn't have cargo loaded on them yet. Why on earth one would want lumbering slow-ass walkers made into cargo transports, in a universe full of repulsorcraft and even treaded vehicles, who the hell knows.

[eMeM]

Hammerhead corvette, that's how the admiral calls it. It's slightly different than in Rebels, they've added two cylindrical thingies with extra turrets on the sides and I think an engine.

@Saw
In Catalyst a few years after the end of the Clone Wars he works as a smuggler or mercenary, later with other ant-imperial minded smugglers fights in a rebellion in the corporate sector. Rogue One Visual Guide mentions Saw's mission to Geonosis in 2BBY, so we will learn more about him in the next Rebels episodes, but he doesn't seem to be attached to any planet anymore, until Jedha at least.

[Lord Revan]

Hammerhead corvette, that's how the admiral calls it. It's slightly different than in Rebels, they've added two cylindrical thingies with extra turrets on the sides and I think an engine.

It could be matter of differences in art style and not actual changes or it's simply changes the rebels made later.

@Saw
In Catalyst a few years after the end of the Clone Wars he works as a smuggler or mercenary, later with other ant-imperial minded smugglers fights in a rebellion in the corporate sector. Rogue One Visual Guide mentions Saw's mission to Geonosis in 2BBY, so we will learn more about him in the next Rebels episodes, but he doesn't seem to be attached to any planet anymore, until Jedha at least.

Still doesn't say how or why he left Onderon, though it's possible the rebel episode(s) clarify that.

[eMeM]

I assume those are the same ships but modified, the turret cylinders certainly look like some sort of a field mod, not an integral part of the design. And in Rebels they were called transports, makes sense that after upgunning they would be reclassified as corvettes.

[Galvatron]

I noticed that in the TOTALLY HYPOTHETICAL 2000s Star Wars prequel movies they planned but NEVER IMPLEMENTED, there were no iconic ship designs - in every one of the planned movies they kept on changing vehicle designs, Amidala switched chrome-starships, the Jedis switched fighters, no design "stuck." Unlike in the original trilogy, where the Falcon, X-Wings and TIEs and ISDs returned with every installment.

Indeed. I've suggested time and again that they should have used the iconic OT designs in the prequels.

I don't understand why the EU has ships in the GFFA with such pitifully short service-lives. I'd have made the ISDs hundreds (if not thousands) of years old by ANH and still in service many generations after ROTJ.

[Shroom Man 777]

Or *kept* some of the new stuff they introduced in the first prequel throughout the rest of the prequel. Because I understand the need to change aesthetic to reflect the different era and mood and theme of the Old Republic... but changing it again and again with each movie is silly.

[Galvatron]

Too bad the crap they introduced in TPM was so bland. The only recurring designs we actually saw throughout the prequels were the Trade Federation ships and droids which, admittedly, weren't altogether awful.

I do wish that AOTC had established that the Republic already had plenty of ships and fighters stored in mothballs, but no troops to use them. I'd have preferred that versus the clones showing up in brand-spanking-new vehicles.

[Mange]

What is the ship on the lower right?

I suspected as much, and it was confirmed by Pablo: They're the same class of ships that can be seen in the Rebel fleet assembly scene in ROTJ when the fleet is about to enter hyperspace for the attack on the Death Star. IIRC, it was one of the elements without a backstory and was included in the "What's the Story" feature on the Official Site. A fan made a horrible scaling job called it the Braha'tok-class gunship.

EDIT: The Wookieepedia entry for the Braha'tok-class has been updated to include Rogue One: Wookieepedia

[Galvatron]

I always dug the Dorneans from the old EU.

Here's some tweets from SD.net favorite, Pablo Hidalgo, answering questions about Rogue One.

[Civil War Man]

I got the feeling that the depiction of Vader in this movie was basically an apology for how he's portrayed in the prequels. No whining or angst in sight, just looming imposingly over subordinates, threatening quips, and effortlessly and single-handedly carving his way through Rebel mooks.

[Galvatron]

Hell, I thought he looked imposing just floating in a bacta tank without any limbs!

[FaxModem1]

I saw this on Saturday, and rather loved it. While Tarkin didn't look right in some scenes, he was still rather impressive. I enjoyed watching the Imperials bicker with each other for rank and status. I do like Jyn's father noting that if he didn't work on the project, someone else would, and that someone would probably be loyal to the Empire, and not intentionally make weaknesses.

Though, this does mean that a 'properly designed Death Star' would not have blown up due to an explosion in the main reactor, making me wonder what that means for the Death Star 2.

Side note, I seriously wondered while watching the film why Vader would choose to base himself on a lava world, which might or might not be the very one he lost his remaining limbs and was burned horribly. But then it hit me, he's a dark side user. Having a constant reminder of his greatest loss would probably fuel his anger and make him able to further channel the dark side.

It was nice to see Senator Organa, and them acknowledging that the prequels happened, no matter what Shroom says.

Speaking of the Organas, when Leia appeared at the end, the audience I was with openly cheered.

I want to openly acknowledge this as superior to Force Awakens, as the Rebel fleet actually consists of something more than fighters, rather than one squadron of fighters for the whole galaxy.

Speaking of the Rebellion's military forces. I wonder if Mon Mothma used the clout of her forces paying the highest price during this battle and at Yavin to get better leadership of the Rebellion's council, as they seem to step in line more after this. Much in the same way that the Bothans dripped the 'many Bothans died' line from Return of the Jedi to get special considerations in the New Republic in the old EU.

The battle of Jedha was refreshing, as it seemed like a real long, drawn-out fight between occupiers and occupied. I kind of wish we saw a few more stormtroopers as people. All we really had was one stormtrooper telling another that 'He's blind', so they shouldn't shoot the guy, and it made the Rebellion more morally gray.

I will probably see this again tomorrow, as Tuesdays are discount days for the local theater.

EDIT: One other thing, the Imperial Director makes a snide comment that with Jedha gone, the Jedi culture is being wiped away. It really seems like the Empire is doing what it can to wipe away the knowledge and culture of the Jedi. I remember that in the old EU, that Emperor Palpatine preferred to collect it. I guess now, unless it's revealed otherwise, a lot of pre-Empire Jedi knowledge is utterly gone, wiped away by fanatics occupying historical locations. How topical.

[Lord Revan]

well I took the "engineered a flaw so it blows up" to mean that Galen Erso engineered a flaw that made it easier to blow DS1 not that said flaw was the only reason that would happen, I mean to blow DS2 they had to first take out a regulator of some sort then score a direct hit on the reactor itself, for all we know the regulator that Wedge took out was the fix to the flaw DS1 had after all it would be inside the armored shell of the station had DS2 been fully complete, or said regulator was faulty in DS1 and couldn't stop the chain reaction from blowing up the station.

[Galvatron]

I imagine that any ship or superweapon could be destroyed from the inside as they did in ROTJ and TFA. The challenge for Erso, I think, was engineering a vulnerability that could both be exploited from the outside and overlooked by the Empire until it was too late.

[KraytKing]

What is the ship on the lower right?

Looks like a Corellian Gunship to me, which would make sense under the circumstances. High firepower in a small shell, good anti-fighter capability. Could even be small enough to fit through the shield gate, had it remained open. Man, that would have been cool.

[Mange]

What is the ship on the lower right?

Looks like a Corellian Gunship to me, which would make sense under the circumstances. High firepower in a small shell, good anti-fighter capability. Could even be small enough to fit through the shield gate, had it remained open. Man, that would have been cool.

I replied a few posts above yours what kind of ship it is.