Rogue One (Spoilers)

[Elfdart]

Just because "in real life" people can radically change designs and swap them out all the time and even end up with ugly things doesn't mean we can't criticize how a work of art failed to emphasize iconic designs that become characters in their own right that can stay and become as beloved by the audiences as any human-played character.

We're talking about things from a visual design perspective, the aesthetic, not from some in-universe "realism" which can allow you to justify all sorts of things and dodge all sorts of criticism.

(I mean, yes, there's a total in-universe and out-of-universe "realism" explanation for Jedi just wearing brown monkish robes... that doesn't mean that from an aesthetic perspective seeing so many of them looking all the same is kinda lame...)

This also applies to the villain characters. Maul, Dooku and Grievous never stayed long enough to become built up like Darth Vader. I get that the final battle was supposed to be between the brothers in arms, to emphasize the treason and such... but still.

So for both the visual designs and the baddies... they didn't do proper build up. Imagine pro-wrestling if they never built up the rivalries or the streaks or the motifs, if they kept on shifting the roster, if we never end up having a familiar face who has a narrative that gets built up over time. It just falls flat.

Or like Star Trek. In the decades since TOS and TNG there can be totally understandable and "realistic" reason for them to swap from the iconic Star Trek Enterprise design and replace it with El Generco Space Brick Battleship but no, because for beyond-the-fourth-wall reasons iconic silhouettes and forms are important aspects of branding.

I mean... in ROTS that scene with the Tantative-type ship elicited more reactions than ANY of the unmemorable vessels and designs in the previous movies.

We want memorable designs dammit.

I see your point, but I look at it this way: The ship, set and costume designs are done to fit the characters and story, not the other way around as you would like.

[Shroom Man 777]

Uhh... I don't think stories were compromised by having memorable designs. In fact memorable ship designs complement (compliment?) the character and perhaps even the story. Nothing I said showed that I would like anything at the expense of the characters and story.

Besides. Prequels. Character? Story? Hah! A memorable ship design would have actually helped them with those!

Jeez. Really. The minor cameos of the Tantative-type and even the Slave One and Palpatine's proto-Lambda being the memorable-ish designs out of all the ships there... sheesh.

Maybe - maybe - I can settle with their gradual transition to Imperial-style designs with the clones and the Acclamators and Venators. I did appreciate that... but really, is asking for the protagonists to have a consistent ride too much and threatens the fragile integrity of the Prequels' characters and story? Will *some* aesthetic considerations totally ruin this BRILLIANT MASTERPIECE BY GORGE DE LA LUCAS that can potentially steal the Oscar from Brokeback Mountain 2: Broker Bareback starring Leonardo Di Caprio AND Daniel Day Lewis with an acclaimed method secksing scene also involving the bear reprising his role from Revenant? Maaan.

We don't even see the difference in capabilities of the Jedi starfighters. They might as well have kept the Aethersprite. It was actually nice. The Actis-type... I don't really care for the attempt to make it TIE-like because... that was one of the "callforwards" to Imperial-style designs that was pretty weak. The V-wings did it better and we only saw split seconds of them though.

[FaxModem1]

I personally rather liked the Actis, it had a unique style as a fighter, and while meant to be a bridge to the TIE-fighter, was I think one of the most distinctive fighters in the Prequel trilogy.

[Shroom Man 777]

Aethersprite or Actis... they could have stuck with one. While showing us what a hot shit fighter pilot Anakin was or something. It could've been the hardy Falcon of the Jedi.

It could show us that while the rest of the Republic military swapped designs, either the Jedi's centuries of service showed that they've kept their gear up to snuff or, even if the rest of the Jedi changed their gear, Anakin's own prowess as a tinkerer and his rogueish tendencies - ala Han Solo - and penchant for breaking protocol allows him to hotrod his trusty fighter and make it more than a match for the hot shit everyone else was upgrading to. Like the Falcon! But better!

ZOMG iconic memorable design sticking through the stories AND characterization of those involved with the thing AND service to the story and themes and overarcing arc whatnot that are at the forefront! INCONCEIVABLE!

If it is any comfort, imagine me saying this with the stroke sufferer's voice ala Red Letter Media Guy just to piss folks here off even more.

buuuuttt wwwhhhyyyyyyyy

what's wrrroonnnggg wwwiiittthhh yyyoouuurrr ffffaaaaacccceeee

[NecronLord]

4) Why bother with X- and Y-wings when a blind man with a quarterstaff/blaster can shoot down TIE fighters?

Why indeed.

The Force is his ally, and a powerful ally it is.

[Abacus]

4) Why bother with X- and Y-wings when a blind man with a quarterstaff/blaster can shoot down TIE fighters?

Why indeed.

The Force is his ally, and a powerful ally it is.

"I am one with the Force; the Force is with me."

[Vympel]

The actor in the costume had no shoulders, the head looked too small. It's like they got some Baby Huey from a cosplay convention to do the part and provide his own costume.

I'm pretty sure that's just your eyes playing tricks on you. The ANH Vader costume was recreated for the film and its exceedingly unlikely that the guy who originally sculpted Vader's helmet would stuff something like that up. Also, its impossible for the actor playing Vader to have no shoulders when they're hidden underneath armored pauldrons.

[KraytKing]

4) Why bother with X- and Y-wings when a blind man with a quarterstaff/blaster can shoot down TIE fighters?

Why indeed.

The Force is his ally, and a powerful ally it is.

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

[Galvatron]

1) Vader. I get the impression he was shoehorned into this movie, even though the movie would have worked just fine without him. I guess he was Villain Insurance in case Krennic was too weak and CGI Tarkin too fake. The actor in the costume had no shoulders, the head looked too small. It's like they got some Baby Huey from a cosplay convention to do the part and provide his own costume. The pun was weaksauce too.

Vader wasn't perfect, but he was a damn sight better than that joke at the end of ROTS. At least they found an actor who fills out the costume.

[KraytKing]

I replied a few posts above yours what kind of ship it is.

I saw that. I meant to quote you as well, but I guess that part didn't quite work out. I've never really been a fan of all these new half-assed ship designs when there is so much material lying around for the taking. Whatever. I play too much WEG Star Wars.

This is a ship from RotJ, tho.

Then it's probably what the WEG artists and writers meant when they designed the Corellian Gunship.

[NecronLord]

4) Why bother with X- and Y-wings when a blind man with a quarterstaff/blaster can shoot down TIE fighters?

Why indeed.

The Force is his ally, and a powerful ally it is.

"The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

"Don't be too proud of these technological terrors."

But yeah, I can't get why anyone would object to that unless they also hate the premise of Star Wars.

[Galvatron]

So for both the visual designs and the baddies... they didn't do proper build up. Imagine pro-wrestling if they never built up the rivalries or the streaks or the motifs, if they kept on shifting the roster, if we never end up having a familiar face who has a narrative that gets built up over time. It just falls flat.

As a compromise, I'd have been satisfied with the Republic hauling mothballed Acclamators, LAATs, Torrents, Aethersprites, etc. out of retirement where they've been sitting since the end of the last full scale war. Over the course of the Clone Wars, technology would improve rapidly as it tends to do during wartime, and we'd end up with the newer designs by the end of Episode III.

[Civil War Man]

I think part of what makes this movie stand out among other Star Wars movies isn't necessarily it being grimdark. I mean, it does have the "rocks fall everyone dies" ending, but ROTS ended with the entire Jedi Order wiped out and ESB was pretty much 2 hours of the Empire stomping all over the Rebellion's collective face.

I think it's more interesting that Rogue One seems to lend itself much less to merchandising than the other movies. There are very few new ship designs, several characters from the previous movies, and the new characters rarely change their appearance barring the one time they disguised themselves as Imperials. The titular Rogue One is a) actually not the main character, and b) is just some random dude who got in way over his head by acting as a messenger for the main character's father. Said father, and one of the people driving the plot, is a dry Imperial scientist who also has very little screen time. Toys of the main villain are about as marketable as an Amon Goethe action figure. The most toyetic of the characters (the sarcastic robot sidekick) is left behind on the ship for most of the movie, and then gets killed.

I mean, there obviously is some merchandising potential, since it is a Star Wars movie, but it feels like the people making it just put in the bare minimum toy potential required to get the thing green-lit by Disney.

[Galvatron]

Speaking of which, why am I not seeing more complaints about the U-wings, TIE strikers and deathtroopers?

[Lord Revan]

I think part of what makes this movie stand out among other Star Wars movies isn't necessarily it being grimdark. I mean, it does have the "rocks fall everyone dies" ending, but ROTS ended with the entire Jedi Order wiped out and ESB was pretty much 2 hours of the Empire stomping all over the Rebellion's collective face.

I think it's more interesting that Rogue One seems to lend itself much less to merchandising than the other movies. There are very few new ship designs, several characters from the previous movies, and the new characters rarely change their appearance barring the one time they disguised themselves as Imperials. The titular Rogue One is a) actually not the main character, and b) is just some random dude who got in way over his head by acting as a messenger for the main character's father. Said father, and one of the people driving the plot, is a dry Imperial scientist who also has very little screen time. Toys of the main villain are about as marketable as an Amon Goethe action figure. The most toyetic of the characters (the sarcastic robot sidekick) is left behind on the ship for most of the movie, and then gets killed.

I mean, there obviously is some merchandising potential, since it is a Star Wars movie, but it feels like the people making it just put in the bare minimum toy potential required to get the thing green-lit by Disney.

I'm pretty sure the call sign "rogue one" referred to the ship (the stolen supply shuttle that is not the U-Wing) or the team not the pilot.

[Dartzap]

Speaking of which, why am I not seeing more complaints about the U-wings, TIE strikers and deathtroopers?

Death Troopers are guarding non-Sith Imperial bigwig, (and other than Tarkins, we've not seen any) Strikers could be related to the type of garrison (are they space capable?) U-wings are easy enough - limited run gunship, and the Alliance lost those they had in Rogue and Blue Squadron related adventures.

I'll be proven wrong in 3, 2, 1.....

[Galvatron]

How Unused ‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ Footage Ended Up in ‘Rogue One’

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story did that Star Wars thing over the weekend. You know, that thing Star Wars has always done: make a crap-ton of money. And while the reaction to the movie seems to have been generally positive amongst fans and critics, one element of the film has already dredged up its fair share of controversy: the digital recreation of actors from the original trilogy.

But that is a conversation for another day. Literally. Someone on the /Film staff is already writing an article about it. Today, we’re going to talk about the other resurrection in Rogue One, the one that most people didn’t even notice. Several minor characters from the original 1977 Star Wars return via footage that was shot but never used for the first movie, only to be edited into the first standalone film nearly 40 years later.

No, they did not re-cast or digitally recreate pilots Garven Dreis (a.k.a. Red Leader) and Jon Vander (a.k.a. Gold Leader) for that final battle at the shield gate around Scarif. That is actually unused footage of actors Drewe Henley and Angus MacInnes that director Gareth Edwards discovered while touring Skywalker Ranch. As he told the Radio Times:

We went to Skywalker Ranch, and there’s the archives there. And as we’re walking around, and doing all the cool things and looking at the Millennium Falcon and trying on Han Solo’s jacket and things like that, in the back at the bottom was all these cans of film. And we said ‘what are they?’ and they said ‘Oh, it’s Star Wars.’ And you go… ‘has someone gone through all this?’ And it’s like ‘not really, they’re not fully like digitised at all.’

From there, Edwards and his team reworked the script to incorporate their unused dialogue (originally scripted for the Battle of Yavin) while ILM digitally inserted the actors into updated cockpits. The results are seamless and seem to fit right into the movie. While this functions as a wild nostalgic kick, this use of old footage also does something special: it takes the minor characters who die in the assault on the Death Star and instills them with a sense of true history. Sure, they perish in that particular fight, but they fought in, and survived, the Battle of Scarif. Rogue One has retroactively transformed them from “guys who die so Luke can rise up and save the day” to “proven and battle-hardened heroes whose demises mean a great deal because of their prior service.”

And yes, Edwards is aware that the fans noticed and that they approve:

At the world premiere in LA, there was this massive cheer at a particular point in the film. It was the only time during the premiere where I actually punched the air.

Rogue One is in theaters right now, but you probably already know that.

[eMeM]

TIE Strikers are space capable but all the stuff that makes them better in atmosphere "becomes a liability in space", so no reason to use them over /ln and Interceptors.

U-wings, maybe they all got lost on Scarif, or simply there was no need for a small troop transport in any other battle we've seen.

[eMeM]

According to the Visual Giude four sqadrons take part in the battle of Scarif: Red (X-wings), Gold (Y-wings), Blue (Y-, X-, and U-wings) and... Green (X-wings).

I might or might not have accquired an illegal recording to try to look for some details, and I think there are indeed X-wings with green markings in the movie:

[Galvatron]

Does that mean Green and Blue squadrons were all completely destroyed?

[eMeM]

Possibly, or they have suffered heavy losses and were merged with Red and Gold squadrons.

[Galvatron]

6) Mon Mothma, like veal pen Democrats in real life, still has faith that corrupted institutions can stop a tyrant hell bent on doing evil. She wants Erso to testify before the Senate about the Death Star? That'll be about as effective as a strongly worded report from a bipartisan commission looking into... Ah fuck it I can't even write this whole sentence. My fingers and keyboard are in open revolt against writing this kind of bullshit, even to mock said bullshit.

Why is that so hard to believe? The Imperials were worried that merely detaining Princess Leia would generate sympathy for the rebellion in the Senate (a concern that even Vader heeded). How do you think they'd react to proof of the Death Star's construction?

[Mlenk]

I watched it last night for a 3rd time with my wife who hadnt seen it yet. Even after repeated viewings I am of the opinion that this is one of my favorite SW films of all time and am blown away by the fact that this somehow escaped the Disney mediocrity police and was released to the public.

[Galvatron]

I watched it last night for a 3rd time with my wife who hadnt seen it yet. Even after repeated viewings I am of the opinion that this is one of my favorite SW films of all time and am blown away by the fact that this somehow escaped the Disney mediocrity police and was released to the public.

Kinda makes you wonder what the original cut was like, doesn't it?

[LadyTevar]

Now that the title warns of SPOILERS, you no longer need to use the Spoiler Tag.