Robots are underutilized in Star Trek

[Tribble]

AND in STFC he was tempted by the Queen. Less than a second but still.

Note that he was still perfectly happy having sex with her and pretending to be her boyfriend before he liquefied all of her organs.

- but still suicide bombed itself against a load of other sentient AIs and previous allies. He tricked them

Yeah sure the war might be over but I'm not going to shoot in the head all 18 of my other unit who didn't get the message. But hey I'm not a murder bot.

And that's AFTER he took over the doc, took over the ship, tried to kill everyone etc... This AI's default setting was berserk.

This just proves that Star Trek A.I. is so dangerous it can even be threatening to other Star Trek A.I.


I wonder when the E-'D's love child is going to return and kill them all?

[Prometheus Unbound]

AND in STFC he was tempted by the Queen. Less than a second but still.

Note that he was still perfectly happy having sex with her and pretending to be her boyfriend before he liquefied all of her organs.

hang on, so not only that, it means he TRICKED her into sex, right?

Which can be construed as rape.


So with his ethical routines all on just fine, with no malfunctions - he's happy to (ok she's the enemy) commit rape and then liquefy her body.

Mind you, Picard is his role model and Picard also tried to seduce the Queen - and then helped Data dispose of the body.

I've seen Law and Order SVU episodes that were not as dark as that.



And if Picard's hands are strong enough to snap her neck - why doesn't data do it really quickly when she's kissing him?

[Khaat]

She wasn't pressured or forced into anything: he simply allowed her to seduce him. Basic espionage technique.

re: Picard - because reasons. Oh, and Borg standing around that would have interfered, then made her a new shell.

[Tribble]

AND in STFC he was tempted by the Queen. Less than a second but still.

Note that he was still perfectly happy having sex with her and pretending to be her boyfriend before he liquefied all of her organs.

hang on, so not only that, it means he TRICKED her into sex, right?

Which can be construed as rape.


So with his ethical routines all on just fine, with no malfunctions - he's happy to (ok she's the enemy) commit rape and then liquefy her body.

Mind you, Picard is his role model and Picard also tried to seduce the Queen - and then helped Data dispose of the body.

I've seen Law and Order SVU episodes that were not as dark as that.

Well, she was trying to seduce him as part of her plan too, so IMO the sex was consensual... though for some reason I highly doubt the liquefying of organs and neck snapping was

And if Picard's hands are strong enough to snap her neck - why doesn't data do it really quickly when she's kissing him?

I am willing to give STFC the benefit of the doubt here, Data couldn't have known beforehand that killing the Queen would kill all of the Borg, so from his perspective there wasn't much to gain from it. For all he knew she'd just make a new body and slap him or something.

Wait, all of the Borg were killed right? It certainly looked that way. And most of them were assimilated crewmembers? So special congratulations need to go out to Data for actually succeeding in killing off most of his crew while getting to stay third in command!

[Captain Seafort]

I am willing to give STFC the benefit of the doubt here, Data couldn't have known beforehand that killing the Queen would kill all of the Borg, so from his perspective there wasn't much to gain from it. For all he knew she'd just make a new body and slap him or something.

On top of which, Picard a) had much better leverage, b) wasn't hindered by neck muscles and c) didn't have to worry about the Queen ripping his head off mid-twist.

[Elheru Aran]

Obviously AI is quite a bit of a crapshoot in Trek.

*Non-intelligent* robots on the other hand... IMO do exist and have a place. What exactly that looks like and what they do, I'm not sure. I suspect the great majority, as today, are in manufacturing, putting together stuff that's not cost-effective to replicate. Not that we have replicators today, but you know what I mean...

[Prometheus Unbound]

Wait, all of the Borg were killed right? It certainly looked that way. And most of them were assimilated crewmembers? So special congratulations need to go out to Data for actually succeeding in killing off most of his crew while getting to stay third in command!

Brilliant.

Can I send u a PM some time over the holidays?

[Prometheus Unbound]

Obviously AI is quite a bit of a crapshoot in Trek.

*Non-intelligent* robots on the other hand... IMO do exist and have a place. What exactly that looks like and what they do, I'm not sure. I suspect the great majority, as today, are in manufacturing, putting together stuff that's not cost-effective to replicate. Not that we have replicators today, but you know what I mean...

Assuming they can't just "Computer, replicate me a starship" I would imagine a lot of robotics / automation is used in the smaller pieces of starships / star bases / ground installations etc.

24th century Zoombas. Docking arms and moorings etc.

I can't really picture much of a "car factory" type situation or like how we use robots for building processor chips and stuff because you just replicate something that size.

So I think Robotics in general "industry" would be much less than now, but when it is used, it's giant 200 metre long crane arms that assemble the starships etc.

Like that station they found in Enterprise. Sadly that one had an AI which of course... tries to kidnap the crew, kill the shi... blah blah.



Pick an AI. Any AI in Trek. I honestly can't think of one that "just worked", ya know? Everything from 2 nanites wesley made that managed to take over the entire ship (and torture and attempt to kill crew members and passengers and the entire fucking ship again) through to the logical outcome of that - the Borg.

Data / Lore / B4 / Lal - all malfunctioned. Two of them have murdered people and one tried to (ok not necessarily his fault, he was stupid) help destroy the Federation. Lal malfunctioned without killing someone but committed sexual assault.

Nomad / V'Ger and Pioneer 10 all managed to gain sentience and FTL capabilities. The first tried to annihilate the Enterprise and some colonies I think, the second tried to annihilate Earth and what looked like 100s of star systems (according to its databases) and the third had not yet managed to attain massive weaponry but had in fact become sentient already and somehow got into Klingon space instead of 0.001 light years from Earth which is where it should be in the 23rd century. We know it was alive because it fucking screams when it gets destroyed.

Seriously. Pick an AI. Any AI.


Wait, has the Defiant computer rebelled yet? DS9's did of course and tried to murder everyone Actually did succeed in killing a few. It then turned on its creator \o/

Holodoc pushes people off cliffs, goes mental, sues the Federation, "resigns" etc. Oh, and tortures crew, collaborates with the enemy multiple times (without malfunction)... Paranoid, jealous and aggressive (Dr Bashir, I Presume), these do not tolerate other EMHs nearby and upon activation are immediately argumentative.

EMH mark 2 is a paranoid jumpy... skittish weirdo, clearly not fit for purpose.

Holodecks - leave 'em on long enough they'll attempt to either take over the ship, burn the crew, eject the crew into space, turn off life support or fuck it make its own baby in the cargo bay. Which btw just gets released out into the wild and no one seems bothered this AI which literally minutes ago was threatening the destruction of the entire ship, is just wandering around out there.

err.... I'm very tired but ... yeah I can't think of an instance. Maybe Harry Mudd's android women but I imagine at least one of their heads fell off or exploded or something right?

M-5? Yup, let's just straight up murder entire starships and CRIPPLE HALF THE FUCKING STARFLEET IN 5 MINUTES jeeeeeeusss.

[Elheru Aran]

Obviously AI is quite a bit of a crapshoot in Trek.

*Non-intelligent* robots on the other hand... IMO do exist and have a place. What exactly that looks like and what they do, I'm not sure. I suspect the great majority, as today, are in manufacturing, putting together stuff that's not cost-effective to replicate. Not that we have replicators today, but you know what I mean...

Assuming they can't just "Computer, replicate me a starship" I would imagine a lot of robotics / automation is used in the smaller pieces of starships / star bases / ground installations etc.

24th century Zoombas. Docking arms and moorings etc.

I can't really picture much of a "car factory" type situation or like how we use robots for building processor chips and stuff because you just replicate something that size.

So I think Robotics in general "industry" would be much less than now, but when it is used, it's giant 200 metre long crane arms that assemble the starships etc.

Like that station they found in Enterprise. Sadly that one had an AI which of course... tries to kidnap the crew, kill the shi... blah blah.

Mm... I'm not sure about replicating computer chips and such; I imagine there may be limitations in '3D-printing' such a complex device. That said, I'm sure they probably did it in some episode or other that I haven't seen, so who knows.

Honestly though given the power and matter expedienture of a replicator, it could well be that on an industrial scale it may be simply easier for them to manufacture stuff old-school if they don't need it yesterday. I would not be surprised if replicators suffer from diminishing returns past a certain size. And given the supposed post-scarcity economy of TNG (after TNG is a different matter of course) I wouldn't be surprised at all if industrial type robots do a LOT of that kind of thing (manufacturing).

I can see industrial-scale replicators being used to manufacture components and then the components are assembled by robots into complete units. That kind of thing.

All conjecture, of course.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Well they can replicate phasers (DS9 Civil Defense, Inquisition).

They can replicate hyposprays (Year of Hell).


Both of those have electronic interfaces and I imagine a chip or two in the phaser at least. But obviously that's small fry to "computer, replicate me a computer core".

DS9 For the Cause has Industrial Replicators (12 of them require a freighter to move them - these are big things I think) to help Cardassia rebuild from the Klingon assaults. These can replicate "heavy machinery" although they don't elaborate further.

Ooo in TNG The Game they replicated The Game - that must have had some chips in it as it was a 3D simulator / augmented reality thing.


But yes this all seems rather small scale. But then we only see the small scale replicators in use heh.

I would posit you can "bootstrap" a factory with a single replicator but much of that is just raw materials - you'd need to replicate little robot arms to make chips for bigger robot arms etc. I can see that being an easily automated process. As long as you have the energy / matter supply of course

[Elheru Aran]

Yeah, with enough computer programming it could be almost entirely automated. Sit at a desktop (or just a desk and talk to, I don't know, the monitor, whatever) and tell it to send down a shuttle with the factory and another with the raw material. Shuttle drops a replicator; replicator bings out a few little robots, then it bings out a few big chunks of robot. Little robots put together bigger robot, rinse and repeat. Robots put together factory and then repurpose themselves as assembly robots.

Hell, if Trek replicators can replicate Stargate replicators, they could build the whole factory *of* replicators...

[Prometheus Unbound]

Yeah, with enough computer programming it could be almost entirely automated. Sit at a desktop (or just a desk and talk to, I don't know, the monitor, whatever) and tell it to send down a shuttle with the factory and another with the raw material. Shuttle drops a replicator; replicator bings out a few little robots, then it bings out a few big chunks of robot. Little robots put together bigger robot, rinse and repeat. Robots put together factory and then repurpose themselves as assembly robots.

Hell, if Trek replicators can replicate Stargate replicators, they could build the whole factory *of* replicators...

no no, Trek doesn't need another unstoppable AI robot monster.


You know what I'm not sure the Federation could stop the Replicators.

Do you think they could? Certainly from a power perspective they can't. ST is nothing near SG1 in terms of regular fire power - I cannot imagine for a second they'd scratch a Replicator ship if the Asgard can't half the time.

It'd need to be a Tech of the Week - are there any that we know of that could kill them?

Think how easily they took over an Asgard ship. Now remember the security on a Federation vessel (none, almost). And the Enterprise is so centralised... yeah I think 1 Replicator onboard would take over that ship within 20 minutes.

[FaxModem1]

There is one example of a 'benign AI', the artificial intelligence from the Think Tank.

Kurros said that it had the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist. Aside from being part of an interstellar protection racket, it was rather normal.

[Tribble]

There is one example of a 'benign AI', the artificial intelligence from the Think Tank.

Kurros said that it had the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist. Aside from being part of an interstellar protection racket, it was rather normal.

Wasn't that A.I. part of the Think Tank and actively helping them the whole time? It might have the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist, but that didn't stop it from placing a bounty on Voyager and trying to force Seven to join their crew. Also it was planning on forcibly linking with Seven's mind to retrieve info when Voyager started fighting back... overall IMO it's amoral at best, and certainly not "benign"

[Tribble]

Brilliant.

Can I send u a PM some time over the holidays?

Sure, feel free.

Nomad / V'Ger and Pioneer 10 all managed to gain sentience and FTL capabilities. The first tried to annihilate the Enterprise and some colonies I think, the second tried to annihilate Earth and what looked like 100s of star systems (according to its databases) and the third had not yet managed to attain massive weaponry but had in fact become sentient already and somehow got into Klingon space instead of 0.001 light years from Earth which is where it should be in the 23rd century. We know it was alive because it fucking screams when it gets destroyed.

Wait, what? It screamed? Really? Wow, good thing they killed it while they still had the chance!

There is one example of a 'benign AI', the artificial intelligence from the Think Tank.

Kurros said that it had the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist. Aside from being part of an interstellar protection racket, it was rather normal.

Wasn't that A.I. part of the Think Tank and actively helping them the whole time? It might have the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist, but that didn't stop it from placing a bounty on Voyager and trying to force Seven to join their crew. Also it was planning on forcibly linking with Seven's mind to retrieve info when Voyager started fighting back... overall IMO it's amoral at best, and certainly not "benign"

EDIT: Sorry for Double Post

[Batman]

There was a noise when Pioneer 10 got shot, yes. What exactly that noise was is anybody's guess.
And technically we have no idea where the Klingons found it. Given he was willing to (and did) attack the E-A I don't see the Klingon captain having much of a problem with trespassing on Federation territory.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Wait, what? It screamed? Really? Wow, good thing they killed it while they still had the chance!

50 seconds in, just as it hits it in this audio copy you can just about hear a "Aaahhhhh!"


The rumour is Shatner added it in as a joke as both Nomad and Voyager 6 (both launched from Earth) went nuts and tried to kill everything. It's an in-joke type thing that Pioneer 10 hadn't quite gotten there yet

There was a noise when Pioneer 10 got shot, yes. What exactly that noise was is anybody's guess.

It's literally a child screaming. That's the sound effect

And technically we have no idea where the Klingons found it. Given he was willing to (and did) attack the E-A I don't see the Klingon captain having much of a problem with trespassing on Federation territory.

In ST3 Kirk (the Flag Admiral at the time) tells the Krudge that him being there is an act of war. Same for ST2 - though not said as an act of war, the neutral zone is very clearly something you don't cross no matter what.

In any event it wasn't 0.012 light years from Earth which is where it'd be in 2287. So it did enter some sort of FTL thing. And it screams. And the last 2 probes did it....

Come on man, have some fun


Or to put it another way, how much would you trust that probe after hearing it scream like that? After the last 2 disasters. Be honest.

I'd have shot it faster than Klaa did.

[FaxModem1]

There is one example of a 'benign AI', the artificial intelligence from the Think Tank.

Kurros said that it had the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist. Aside from being part of an interstellar protection racket, it was rather normal.

Wasn't that A.I. part of the Think Tank and actively helping them the whole time? It might have the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist, but that didn't stop it from placing a bounty on Voyager and trying to force Seven to join their crew. Also it was planning on forcibly linking with Seven's mind to retrieve info when Voyager started fighting back... overall IMO it's amoral at best, and certainly not "benign"

Well, no worse than it's meatbag shipmates, then.

[Prometheus Unbound]

There is one example of a 'benign AI', the artificial intelligence from the Think Tank.

Kurros said that it had the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist. Aside from being part of an interstellar protection racket, it was rather normal.

Wasn't that A.I. part of the Think Tank and actively helping them the whole time? It might have the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist, but that didn't stop it from placing a bounty on Voyager and trying to force Seven to join their crew. Also it was planning on forcibly linking with Seven's mind to retrieve info when Voyager started fighting back... overall IMO it's amoral at best, and certainly not "benign"

Well, no worse than it's meatbag shipmates, then.

Have we found the first stable AI in Trek? Admittedly it's an *evil* AI lol. But it may be functioning normally.


But still - not a single "good" AI in all of Trek haha

[Tribble]

Wasn't that A.I. part of the Think Tank and actively helping them the whole time? It might have the mind of a mathematician and the soul of an artist, but that didn't stop it from placing a bounty on Voyager and trying to force Seven to join their crew. Also it was planning on forcibly linking with Seven's mind to retrieve info when Voyager started fighting back... overall IMO it's amoral at best, and certainly not "benign"

Well, no worse than it's meatbag shipmates, then.

Have we found the first stable AI in Trek? Admittedly it's an *evil* AI lol. But it may be functioning normally.


But still - not a single "good" AI in all of Trek haha

It depends on how much you recognize props in other series... according to Memory Alpha the prop was re-used for the A.I. on that station that fixed the Enterprise (you know, the one that sucked up people to eat their brains to expand its memory and whatnot). The last we saw of the station it was trying to rebuild itself... since we never see it again, it's possible for all we know that after being found out it travelled to the DQ and was eventually picked up by the Think Tank. Maybe its art and math skills came from all the brains it absorbed over the years... and I'm pretty sure that was not part of the original design goal when the station was built

[FaxModem1]

Well, no worse than it's meatbag shipmates, then.

Have we found the first stable AI in Trek? Admittedly it's an *evil* AI lol. But it may be functioning normally.


But still - not a single "good" AI in all of Trek haha

It depends on how much you recognize props in other series... according to Memory Alpha the prop was re-used for the A.I. on that station that fixed the Enterprise (you know, the one that sucked up people to eat their brains to expand its memory and whatnot). The last we saw of the station it was trying to rebuild itself... since we never see it again, it's possible for all we know that after being found out it travelled to the DQ and was eventually picked up by the Think Tank. Maybe its art and math skills came from all the brains it absorbed over the years... and I'm pretty sure that was not part of the original design goal when the station was built

Trek reuses props, a lot. The same prop was used as the control device for the Hirogen holograms in Flesh and Blood.

By this same logic though, Sona ships are made of the same material as cabins and hotels on Risa.

[Tribble]

Trek reuses props, a lot. The same prop was used as the control device for the Hirogen holograms in Flesh and Blood.

See, see, I told you so! That A.I. is messed up in all its incarnations

By this same logic though, Sona ships are made of the same material as cabins and hotels on Risa.

Nothing says in canon that they weren't