A-10 modifications?

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-03-27 02:53pm

phongn wrote: It would have been an excellent replacement for the OV-10 (one of the Army's only fixed-wing aircraft, was a FAC).

I heard in Vietnam the USAF threw a shitstorm when they found out the Army were using them as spotters for artillary.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-03-27 03:02pm

Rubberanvil wrote:
phongn wrote: It would have been an excellent replacement for the OV-10 (one of the Army's only fixed-wing aircraft, was a FAC).
I heard in Vietnam the USAF threw a shitstorm when they found out the Army were using them as spotters for artillary.

I wouldn't be suprised, considering the agreement between the Air Force and the Army. OTOH, they remained until the 1990s, so they apparently lost that turf battle.

Rubberanvil · Post by **Rubberanvil** » 2003-03-27 03:22pm

Given how every Adminstration for the past 15 years thinks the U.S.A. doesn't needs an Army, I'm not surprised.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-03-27 05:15pm

Rubberanvil wrote:Given how every Adminstration for the past 15 years thinks the U.S.A. doesn't needs an Army, I'm not surprised.

When ya got the air force (which already has a ground force

) do you really need them?

HAHA!

GO AIR FORCE!!!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-03-27 05:31pm

Nathan F wrote:
Rubberanvil wrote:Given how every Adminstration for the past 15 years thinks the U.S.A. doesn't needs an Army, I'm not surprised.
When ya got the air force (which already has a ground force ) do you really need them?

HAHA!

GO AIR FORCE!!!

We still need somebody to occupy the ground the air force makes available. I question the need for the Marines to be a separate group. I'd just make them Naval Infantry, like they were originally.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-03-27 08:03pm

The Air Force hates the A-10 cause it is not fast and glamorous. Most of the top AF brass come from the fighter side, so they dont like the A-10. Of course we have not seen much in the way of fighter to fighter combat in the last few decades, but that does not change the politics.

One role not mentiond for the A-10 is as an escort for helicopters. It makes for a good Sandy IMHO.

Loiter time is important when targets come and go at a moments notice. Some of this can be taken over by UAV's but having an officer on the ground talking to a pilot nearby cant be matched yet.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-03-27 08:08pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote:The Air Force hates the A-10 cause it is not fast and glamorous. Most of the top AF brass come from the fighter side, so they dont like the A-10. Of course we have not seen much in the way of fighter to fighter combat in the last few decades, but that does not change the politics.

One role not mentiond for the A-10 is as an escort for helicopters. It makes for a good Sandy IMHO.

Loiter time is important when targets come and go at a moments notice. Some of this can be taken over by UAV's but having an officer on the ground talking to a pilot nearby cant be matched yet.

The AF brass might not like the A-10, but the rest sure does from what I can tell.

Hey, how can you keep from not liking that lovely, glamorous, subsonic, snub nosed, square winged, big gunned, sumbitch?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-03-27 08:09pm

TrailerParkJawa wrote: One role not mentiond for the A-10 is as an escort for helicopters. It makes for a good Sandy IMHO.

Hmm, never thought of that, but it makes since.

Can flow low and slow, is as manueverable as an F-16 at those speeds and altitude, and I have seen them with AIM-9s on some of their hardpoints.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-27 09:36pm

Alyeska wrote:
Phil Skayhan wrote:Hard to believe it was supposed to have been phased out in the late 80's/early 90's.

Any idea as to what was to replace it?
The "A-16". Basically they wanted a pure Air-to-mud version of the F-16. The fighter proved highly reliable and capable and it can carry a fair load out. We already have the F-16CG right now for ground attack and it compliments the A-10. Basically we don't need the gun on the A-10 like we used to, rather we need the air-to-ground weapons capability. The newest versions of the F-16 do this quite well. The F-35 will then replace the F-16. It is unlikely the A-10 will be in service much after the first few F-35 squadrons enter service.

The A-16 was as much as disaster as it could be without the aircraft being shot down. A squadron was deployed to the Gulf war, and within a week they where back to normal F-16 work.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-03-27 09:37pm

phongn wrote:Off a few other boards, I'm getting indications that the Warthogs have been modified (perhaps greatly) since Desert Storm. For example, then they more or less had to use their Mavericks to get any sort of non-daylight operations going.

Now they're spooling up at 2200 local. Any ideas what the USAF has done to those birds?

Global Security has a chart of completed and proposed A-10 upgrades through 2001 IIRC.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-03-27 09:50pm

Nathan F wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote: One role not mentiond for the A-10 is as an escort for helicopters. It makes for a good Sandy IMHO.
Hmm, never thought of that, but it makes since.

Can flow low and slow, is as manueverable as an F-16 at those speeds and altitude, and I have seen them with AIM-9s on some of their hardpoints.

Like I said, if the AF dosen't want them (since they lack 'sexiness' I suppose

) Give then to the Army! Integrate them into a new fixed wing support arm, along side the choppers!

Brings back memories of the old "Skyraiders" thoes huge assed piston planes we used for CAS during Vietnam, cant remember their designation though.......

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-03-27 10:03pm

The Dark wrote:
Nathan F wrote: When ya got the air force (which already has a ground force ) do you really need them?

HAHA!

GO AIR FORCE!!!
We still need somebody to occupy the ground the air force makes available. I question the need for the Marines to be a separate group. I'd just make them Naval Infantry, like they were originally.

I think he was joking that there were enough "gate guard" types in the Air Force that they could occupy what the Air Force has already taken.

As for the Marines, they still fall under the department of the Navy. I'm assuming by your statement that you really want them to be more of a part of the Navy and less a separate entity. It could cut down on some of the bureacracy but I think they were separated for good reasons. The Navy already has to deal with leadership and funding issues between the "Air", "Surface" and "Subsurface" parts of it's fleets.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-03-27 10:22pm

Sokar wrote:
Nathan F wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote: One role not mentiond for the A-10 is as an escort for helicopters. It makes for a good Sandy IMHO.
Hmm, never thought of that, but it makes since.

Can flow low and slow, is as manueverable as an F-16 at those speeds and altitude, and I have seen them with AIM-9s on some of their hardpoints.
Like I said, if the AF dosen't want them (since they lack 'sexiness' I suppose ) Give then to the Army! Integrate them into a new fixed wing support arm, along side the choppers!

Brings back memories of the old "Skyraiders" thoes huge assed piston planes we used for CAS during Vietnam, cant remember their designation though.......

A-1 Skyraider, also known as AD-5. Four 20mm cannon and up to 6,500 lbs. on 15 hardpoints. Top speed was only 271 knots, though. Of course, it could soak up almost as much damage as a 'Hog.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-03-27 10:25pm

The Dark wrote:A-1 Skyraider, also known as AD-5. Four 20mm cannon and up to 6,500 lbs. on 15 hardpoints. Top speed was only 271 knots, though. Of course, it could soak up almost as much damage as a 'Hog.

I find it amazing that the first flight of the A-1 was in 1945!

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2003-03-27 10:36pm

The Dark wrote:
Sokar wrote:
Nathan F wrote: Hmm, never thought of that, but it makes since.

Can flow low and slow, is as manueverable as an F-16 at those speeds and altitude, and I have seen them with AIM-9s on some of their hardpoints.
Like I said, if the AF dosen't want them (since they lack 'sexiness' I suppose ) Give then to the Army! Integrate them into a new fixed wing support arm, along side the choppers!

Brings back memories of the old "Skyraiders" thoes huge assed piston planes we used for CAS during Vietnam, cant remember their designation though.......
A-1 Skyraider, also known as AD-5. Four 20mm cannon and up to 6,500 lbs. on 15 hardpoints. Top speed was only 271 knots, though. Of course, it could soak up almost as much damage as a 'Hog.

BINGO ! Thank you Dark , I could not for the life of me remember that!
I always thought they were cool as hell

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-03-27 10:39pm

Sokar wrote:BINGO ! Thank you Dark , I could not for the life of me remember that!
I always thought they were cool as hell

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/ . This is one link that I access at least once a week for reference purposes. Some digging is necessary at times, and their weapons and engines sections suck, but the archives of aircraft are very good, with the capabilities of each aircraft and number produced of each variant.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-03-27 11:16pm

Sokar wrote:
Nathan F wrote:
TrailerParkJawa wrote: One role not mentiond for the A-10 is as an escort for helicopters. It makes for a good Sandy IMHO.
Hmm, never thought of that, but it makes since.

Can flow low and slow, is as manueverable as an F-16 at those speeds and altitude, and I have seen them with AIM-9s on some of their hardpoints.
Like I said, if the AF dosen't want them (since they lack 'sexiness' I suppose ) Give then to the Army! Integrate them into a new fixed wing support arm, along side the choppers!

Brings back memories of the old "Skyraiders" thoes huge assed piston planes we used for CAS during Vietnam, cant remember their designation though.......

Ah, the last piston engined aircraft used by the AF.

That was the A-1 Skyraider.

And yes, they were badassed.

<edit: I just see that was answered...>

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-03-27 11:20pm

Nathan F wrote:
The AF brass might not like the A-10, but the rest sure does from what I can tell.

Hey, how can you keep from not liking that lovely, glamorous, subsonic, snub nosed, square winged, big gunned, sumbitch?

Had to make an amendment:

How can you keep from not likeing that lovely, glamourous, subsonic, snub nosed, square winged, big gunned, fat, ugly, beautiful, sumbitch?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

A-10 modifications?

Re: A-10 modifications?