RIP Carrie Fisher

[Galvatron]

I'm sure you all know about it by now. This one hurts. It isn't like when Guinness or Cushing went because they were already old when I was born, but Fisher was the baby of cast when they made ANH. She should have had at least 20 more years.

And because this is PSW and we're all thinking it anyway, here's an article I just read:

How Will Carrie Fisher’s Death Affect ‘Star Wars: Episode 8’ & ‘Episode 9’?

Legendary actress Carrie Fisher, known for playing Leia Organa in the Star Wars saga, has died.

In addition to this being an enormously tragic loss, Fisher’s sudden death raises questions about the future of the new Star Wars trilogy. How is her passing going to affect things going forward? Did she still have any more to film?

The next movie in the saga is Star Wars: Episode VIII, which will be released on December 15, 2017. Filming for this movie ended long before Fisher’s death, with production concluding in July 2016.

However, it was expected that both Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher would also play a role in the final movie in the new trilogy, Star Wars: Episode IX. This is the sequel that will have to deal with Fisher’s absence, as that movie is still in pre-production and will not start filming until 2017.

Technically, we don’t know that Leia Organa survives Star Wars: Episode VIII, but it would be quite surprising to see the franchise kill off two iconic characters back to back, with Han Solo’s death having occurred in Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens.

From a plot perspective, Leia’s absence will not be easily dealt with considering that is the leader of the Resistance and will likely be key to the story extending into the end of Episode IX. The new Star Wars canon is clearly still very interested in Leia’s story, as she was recently the subject of the book Star Wars: Bloodline, which follows Leia Organa in the years prior to The Force Awakens.

Assuming the plan as of last week was for Leia to be in both Episode VIII and Episode IX, Disney is now presented with three equally distressing options.

One, they could recast Leia Organa. This is often the go-to solution in these sorts of situations, such as when Dumbledore actor Michael Gambon died in between Harry Potter movies and had to be replaced with Richard Harris. Usually, this is the option taken when it’s completely impossible to write the character out of the story; there’s obviously no Harry Potter without Dumbledore, and so Warner Bros. didn’t really have a choice.

The second option is to just cut Leia Organa out of Episode IX, giving her original role to another character and explaining her absence through dialogue. This is what Lionsgate did for the final Hunger Games film, Mockingjay: Part 2. Philip Seymour Hoffman suddenly died during production, and so his remaining scenes were simply rewritten so that Plutarch’s actions were performed by other characters. However, the situation was a bit easier to deal with here considering that Hoffman had already filmed much of the movie, whereas no Episode IX scenes have been filmed.

A potential third option is one that is only now becoming available to movie studios: employing a CGI Carrie Fisher in Star Wars: Episode IX. After all, Disney just premiered Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, in which Peter Cushing is digitally recreated even though he died in 1994. Carrie Fisher is recreated in that movie too, with a young Leia Organa briefly making an appearance in order to tie the film into the original Star Wars. With Star Wars Episode IX, then, Disney could theoretically shift focus away from Leia but still include her in some scenes via CGI and stand in actors in order to give the character a proper sendoff. It’s up to Disney and to Fisher’s family to decide if this is ethical and what Fisher would have wanted.

Star Wars Episode VIII will be released on December 15, 2017. Star Wars Episode IV will be released on May 23, 2019, assuming Fisher’s death does not require production to be delayed.

[The Romulan Republic]

This is already being discussed in three separate threads.

But as far as the affects on the films, the best way to handle it in my opinion, since Episode VIII is already filmed, is to have her die off-screen between VIII and IX, and perhaps open IX with Leia's funeral.

It also goes without saying that Episode VIII should be dedicated to Fisher, since it will be (I presume) her final film role.

[Galvatron]

This is already being discussed in three separate threads.

I know, but I didn't want to pollute the other threads with Star Wars talk. It's out of respect.

But as far as the affects on the films, the best way to handle it in my opinion, since Episode VIII is already filmed, is to have her die off-screen between VIII and IX, and perhaps open IX with Leia's funeral.

It also goes without saying that Episode VIII should be dedicated to Fisher, since it will be (I presume) her final film role.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have to rewrite and reshoot parts of Episode VIII first (i.e. Furious 7). Her passing would probably be easier to handle that way versus leaving the movie as-is, only to open up the next movie with news of an off-screen death.

[Lord Revan]

This is already being discussed in three separate threads.

But as far as the affects on the films, the best way to handle it in my opinion, since Episode VIII is already filmed, is to have her die off-screen between VIII and IX, and perhaps open IX with Leia's funeral.

It also goes without saying that Episode VIII should be dedicated to Fisher, since it will be (I presume) her final film role.

I'd say it goes without saying that Episode VIII will be dedicated to Fisher as for episode IX it shouldn't be too hard to rewrite it so that Leia died off-screen, hell if done right it could be just as much tribute to actress as the character (kind of like it was done in ST:beyond for Spock Prime) it wouldn't be even major problem storywise as it's known fact that stress ages people and wrecks havoc on their health and Leia has been thru a lot.

Honestly I'd be surpriced if there hadn't been some plans incase one older members of the cast died during filming.

[The Romulan Republic]

I know, but I didn't want to pollute the other threads with Star Wars talk. It's out of respect.

Fair enough, in my non-moderator opinion.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have to rewrite and reshoot parts of Episode VIII first (i.e. Furious 7). Her passing would probably be easier to handle that way versus leaving the movie as-is, only to open up the next movie with news of an off-screen death.

That would probably be a mistake, in my opinion. Trying to rewrite Episode VIII to fit Leia's death into the film or something would likely feel forced, disrupt the flow of the story and editing, and feel rather like it was just done because it was "obligatory" to have Leia die because of Fisher's death.

In fact, I've never felt that it is necessary for a character to die with their actor, and the only reason I'd think Leia should die between films is because she's such a huge part of the franchise and story that her absence might be too conspicuous if she was just alive but off-screen.

But I think an off-screen death would be better than trying to force it into the Episode VIII story when its already filmed.

This presumes, of course, that it was not already planned for her to die in Episode VIII, which we have no way of yet knowing.

[Galvatron]

If they truly planned for this, maybe they filmed enough of her scenes that some of them can be digitally altered and inserted into Episode IX. Perhaps some of them would have otherwise ended up on the cutting room floor.

If anyone can make it work, ILM can. Rogue One was just the beginning.

[The Romulan Republic]

As ghoulish as the thought is, it wouldn't surprise me if Disney had a plan for each and every one of the older stars dying.

[Lord Revan]

If they truly planned for this, maybe they filmed enough of her scenes that some of them can be digitally altered and inserted into Episode IX. Perhaps some of them would have otherwise ended up on the cutting room floor.

If anyone can make it work, ILM can. Rogue One was just the beginning.

That would depend on Carrie Fisher's family, seeing as they can veto using her likeness if they feel it's disrespectful.

[Crazedwraith]

If they truly planned for this, maybe they filmed enough of her scenes that some of them can be digitally altered and inserted into Episode IX. Perhaps some of them would have otherwise ended up on the cutting room floor.

If anyone can make it work, ILM can. Rogue One was just the beginning.

What a horrifying prospect. Seriously, no-one else creeped out that apparently movie companies own your face forever?

I guess actors will soon be a dying breed. We'll just CGI everything.

[Lord Revan]

As ghoulish as the thought is, it wouldn't surprise me if Disney had a plan for each and every one of the older stars dying.

Ghoulish sure but pragmatic and I suspect it would less of a plan "if they died" and more of a plan "if they were unavaible for medical reasons"

[Lord Revan]

If they truly planned for this, maybe they filmed enough of her scenes that some of them can be digitally altered and inserted into Episode IX. Perhaps some of them would have otherwise ended up on the cutting room floor.

If anyone can make it work, ILM can. Rogue One was just the beginning.

What a horrifying prospect. Seriously, no-one else creeped out that apparently movie companies own your face forever?

I guess actors will soon be a dying breed. We'll just CGI everything.

Actors and their families still hold the rights to the likeness, so if Carrier Fisher's family says "no you can't recreate her with CGI" there's nothing Disney or anyone else can do about it.

[Galvatron]

It may have even been a stipulation of Fisher's contract. She was already signed to do all three movies so I doubt her estate would really have much of a problem with it.

[seanrobertson]

It may have even been a stipulation of Fisher's contract. She was already signed to do all three movies so I doubt her estate would really have much of a problem with it.

I imagine not, but I am of course saddened to learn of her death. I know she lived a ... hmm. Let's say very *full* life, but I'm no one to judge. I hope she rests in peace.

[ray245]

The big problem is they made Kylo Ren into a major character in the sequels. Ben killed Han, leaving Leia as his sole surviving parent. Killing off Leia would pretty much severe any of his connections to his family, even if Luke and possibly Rey is still alive and his remaining family members.

[Kojiro]

This makes me slightly more angry at Abrams. It was bad enough thinking I'd never see Luke, Leia and Han together again, but now I won't even see Luke and Leia. Because fucking Rey had to be the one to go find the all important Jedi Master.

[Gandalf]

This makes me slightly more angry at Abrams. It was bad enough thinking I'd never see Luke, Leia and Han together again, but now I won't even see Luke and Leia. Because fucking Rey had to be the one to go find the all important Jedi Master.

Yes, you're right. How dare someone making a bunch of new films for a new generation of fans not rely on a cast from nearly four decades ago?

[Kojiro]

Oh come the fuck on. Give me a good reason why Leia shouldn't have at least come along to find her brother? The all important jedi master the whole film's premise is about?

[ray245]

This makes me slightly more angry at Abrams. It was bad enough thinking I'd never see Luke, Leia and Han together again, but now I won't even see Luke and Leia. Because fucking Rey had to be the one to go find the all important Jedi Master.

Yes, you're right. How dare someone making a bunch of new films for a new generation of fans not rely on a cast from nearly four decades ago?

Because what the fans wanted to see was one lash hurrah for the main trio? That was what drove EP 7 hype to such a ridiculous level. Luke is now going to be sole survivor in EP 9.

[Kojiro]

And having Leia go along with Rey (and the oddly absent Chewie, even though he was on the Falcon) for a final end scene is hardly 'relying' on the old cast. Because fuck, the film is otherwise so devoid of nostalgic call backs right?

[Shroom Man 777]

Considering her husband died too...

[Gandalf]

Oh come the fuck on. Give me a good reason why Leia shouldn't have at least come along to find her brother? The all important jedi master the whole film's premise is about?

I thought Leia had a resistance to run. This is in part because it's (at least partly) Rey's film. She goes from desert scavenger to junior space wizard, and as a result can be at the centre of a billion dollar franchise. Leia is the Queen who sends Rey on her quest. Think of it in terms of the hero's journey monomyth. Leia being there would cheapen Rey's journey.

Because what the fans wanted to see was one lash hurrah for the main trio? That was what drove EP 7 hype to such a ridiculous level. Luke is now going to be sole survivor in EP 9.

Fans don't make the film profitable. Fans don't make the film good. Why is "what fans want" a metric worth considering?

Also, as a fan I thought the usage of the original cast was perfect in TFA. They all had their moments, as the baton was passed to the new generation. Like Doctor McCoy visiting the Enterprise in Encounter at Farpoint, it says that as one character's story ends, another begins.

[Batman]

'Relying on the old cast'. You know what's curiously absent from the end of TFA? Luke actually taking the sabre. For all we know Ep 8 opens with Luke going 'keep it, this is your fight. I'm done with this shit.'

[ray245]

Because what the fans wanted to see was one lash hurrah for the main trio? That was what drove EP 7 hype to such a ridiculous level. Luke is now going to be sole survivor in EP 9.

Fans don't make the film profitable. Fans don't make the film good. Why is "what fans want" a metric worth considering?

TFA was about listening to what fans wanted. Which is why we had so many puppets and etc, or at the very least play an important role in the marketing. Fans do make a film like SW profitable because there are simply too many of them to count. SW is perhaps the biggest franchise there is.

Also, as a fan I thought the usage of the original cast was perfect in TFA. They all had their moments, as the baton was passed to the new generation. Like Doctor McCoy visiting the Enterprise in Encounter at Farpoint, it says that as one character's story ends, another begins.

I disagree. TFA is basically the story about the failure of the trio. Luke failed the Jedi Order, Han and Leia failed their son. The main trio were also lost to each other for a long period of time.

[Gandalf]

TFA was about listening to what fans wanted. Which is why we had so many puppets and etc, or at the very least play an important role in the marketing. Fans do make a film like SW profitable because there are simply too many of them to count. SW is perhaps the biggest franchise there is.

I think we're hitting a bit of a problem here. How are you defining "fan" versus someone who merely likes the material?

I disagree. TFA is basically the story about the failure of the trio. Luke failed the Jedi Order, Han and Leia failed their son. The main trio were also lost to each other for a long period of time.

Which has nothing to do with what I said. Though some sort of long term estrangement might certainly explain (in universe) why Leia didn't go looking for Luke herself.

[ray245]

TFA was about listening to what fans wanted. Which is why we had so many puppets and etc, or at the very least play an important role in the marketing. Fans do make a film like SW profitable because there are simply too many of them to count. SW is perhaps the biggest franchise there is.

I think we're hitting a bit of a problem here. How are you defining "fan" versus someone who merely likes the material?

I think we can include everyone who turns up for a SW movie no matter how bad it is as a baseline. The prequels, even if they were supposedly universally hated, still made a massive profit.

But I think part of the success of TFA has to do with people being fans of the OT characters. Which is why the hype for TFA was even crazier than the hype for Ep I.

Which has nothing to do with what I said. Though some sort of long term estrangement might certainly explain (in universe) why Leia didn't go looking for Luke herself.

I disagree with the passing of the baton moment in TFA. If this really was a passing of the baton, the story shouldn't rely that heavily on the screw-up of the OT cast.