Rogue One (Spoilers)

[Vympel]

The Rogue One novelization gives us an insight into Tarkin's thought process.

The deck shuddered lovingly as the battle station dropped out of lightspeed. Dozens of objects flashed onto the overbridge’s tactical displays—Imperial and rebel vessels in conflict throughout the system—and Wilhuff Tarkin made his assessment after seconds of perusal.

The Empire was losing over Scarif, but that was about to change.

Duty officers called out status reports for their assigned sections of the Death Star. The hyperspace journey had gone smoothly and the station was ready for war. Its gunners and fighter pilots were at full alert; more Imperial ships were on their way.

“Sir, shall I begin targeting their fleet?”

There was proud enthusiasm in General Romodi’s voice. Tarkin looked to the old warhorse, then shook his head. It might be amusing—even illuminating—to test the station’s capabilities against a rebel armada, but now was not the day to toy with the enemy. Director Krennic, General Ramda, and Admiral Gorin had all failed to solve the problem at hand, granting the rebels opportunity after opportunity to seize the schematics from the Citadel.

At last report, the data vault itself had been breached. It was a show of incompetence so great that Tarkin was almost curious to know how Krennic might explain it away.

Almost curious.

No. Best to start fresh—to eliminate the threat of the rebels, however slight, and clear away the deadwood of the Imperial military.

“Lord Vader will handle the fleet,” Tarkin said. “The plans must not be allowed to leave Scarif, at any cost.”

Romodi understood. “Yes, sir,” he replied, and began calling orders to his aides.

Tarkin looked to the viewscreen and to Scarif: an ocean-drenched sphere of islands rich with rare metals, useful as a construction outpost and research incubator away from the Senate’s prying eyes. But Tarkin would not miss it. Over the years, too many officers had treated it as a place for unofficial retirement; a tropical paradise where they could neglect their duty in comfort. The loss of the Citadel and the planetary shield would be a pity—but no more than that.

“Single reactor ignition,” Tarkin said. “You may fire when ready.”

[NeoGoomba]

Also... I wonder if Vader realized that the plans - which they knew the Rebels were trying to obtain from Scarif - were aboard the Profundity, downloaded and placed in a hardcopy, by feeling the fears of the crew (again, he could've just been there to murder everyone, whereas all his victims thought "oh space jesus he knows we have the plans!) just like how he realized that Luke had a sister in ROTJ.

I think that is what they were hinting at. I'm pretty sure that once the Devastator comes out of lightspeed and begins whomping the Rebels, we get a shot of Vader sort of scanning the Rebel fleet for a moment before his "Bring My Shuttle" line. So yeah, I think he Sith'ed the general location of the plans.

Makes that line from Motti in ANH funny when he claims the Force hasn't helped Vader "conjure up" the plans, because it almost did just that.

[Iroscato]

I'd describe Tarkin almost as a total fanatic/maverick or extremist (if the Empire can even have such a thing) in his imperialist attitude - I can't remember if it's canon or not (probably not anymore) but even Palpatine was apparently shocked at Tarkin's almost casual ordering of the destruction of Alderaan. Tarkin was a profoundly arrogant man...having command of a seemingly-invincible battlestation would've amplified that by orders of magnitude.

[Iroscato]

Also: I can't be the only one who thinks Tarkin got just a little turned on every time he got to use his new toy...

[Elheru Aran]

It (well the DS2) did fire off-axis in ROTJ rite?

It did, but then the DS2 was IIRC supposed to be more advanced. Obviously enough there would be some geometric limitations, the superlaser can't fire off-axis more than a certain number of degrees.

SWTC's Death Star page appears to be down, unfortunately...

[Admiral Valdemar]

I'd say Vympel's excerpt more or less confirms the general view that Scarif was a cushy posting for those not expected to do all that much, either through incompetence or pulling strings within the upper ranks. You can argue whether Director Krennic's particular mishandling was down to factors dealing with working against Tarkin or not, and viewing only his advancement as a singular goal, but it's probably not indicative of good command when a visiting science officer has to slap you back to reality as your base is attacked. And that goes just as much for the Imp vessels in orbit too who have nothing but dismay to show the Rebels before procrastinating and getting some action taken.

So, in a way, Tarkin was doing the Empire a service he thought. Sure you lose the archive and whatever else was near that multi-gig mushroom cloud. On the flip side, you get rid of potentially more liabilities that could crop up at other planets or fleets.

[Vympel]

It did, but then the DS2 was IIRC supposed to be more advanced. Obviously enough there would be some geometric limitations, the superlaser can't fire off-axis more than a certain number of degrees.

SWTC's Death Star page appears to be down, unfortunately...

Canonically, at this stage the Death Star II was only stated to be more powerful (in the film's opening crawl), which I guess is made obvious by the fact that its superlaser dish fires an extra beam right from the centre. It is also bigger. At this stage its stated to be larger than 160km (the Death Star is expressly 160km, that stupid retcon where they brought it down to 120km again was reversed in the course of Rogue One production, presumably because someone actually paid attention to the original source material).

[Shroom Man 777]

Ah, upon reviewing the scene... one of Vader's subordinates outright tells him that the Mon Cal ship received a transmission from the surface.

[ray245]

It did, but then the DS2 was IIRC supposed to be more advanced. Obviously enough there would be some geometric limitations, the superlaser can't fire off-axis more than a certain number of degrees.

SWTC's Death Star page appears to be down, unfortunately...

Canonically, at this stage the Death Star II was only stated to be more powerful (in the film's opening crawl), which I guess is made obvious by the fact that its superlaser dish fires an extra beam right from the centre. It is also bigger. At this stage its stated to be larger than 160km (the Death Star is expressly 160km, that stupid retcon where they brought it down to 120km again was reversed in the course of Rogue One production, presumably because someone actually paid attention to the original source material).

Certainly not Pablo. I think we will be seeing more of these issues coming back again.

[Lord Revan]

I'd say Vympel's excerpt more or less confirms the general view that Scarif was a cushy posting for those not expected to do all that much, either through incompetence or pulling strings within the upper ranks. You can argue whether Director Krennic's particular mishandling was down to factors dealing with working against Tarkin or not, and viewing only his advancement as a singular goal, but it's probably not indicative of good command when a visiting science officer has to slap you back to reality as your base is attacked. And that goes just as much for the Imp vessels in orbit too who have nothing but dismay to show the Rebels before procrastinating and getting some action taken.

So, in a way, Tarkin was doing the Empire a service he thought. Sure you lose the archive and whatever else was near that multi-gig mushroom cloud. On the flip side, you get rid of potentially more liabilities that could crop up at other planets or fleets.

Somehow I expect that Scrariff wasn't the only one of such systems but still you got a point.

[Mange]

It did, but then the DS2 was IIRC supposed to be more advanced. Obviously enough there would be some geometric limitations, the superlaser can't fire off-axis more than a certain number of degrees.

SWTC's Death Star page appears to be down, unfortunately...

Canonically, at this stage the Death Star II was only stated to be more powerful (in the film's opening crawl), which I guess is made obvious by the fact that its superlaser dish fires an extra beam right from the centre. It is also bigger. At this stage its stated to be larger than 160km (the Death Star is expressly 160km, that stupid retcon where they brought it down to 120km again was reversed in the course of Rogue One production, presumably because someone actually paid attention to the original source material).

Certainly not Pablo. I think we will be seeing more of these issues coming back again.

Actually, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, according to Pablo's Star Wars Rogue One: Visual Dictionary the Death Star is 160 km in diameter (though John Knoll used the figure during production).

As for the DS being expressly 160 km in diameter, in a late production sketch for Star Wars made by Ralph McQuarrie (which was available at Star Wars Hyperspace earlier as well as in the expanded edition of Rinzler's The Making of Star Wars), the DS was supposed to be 92 miles (148 kilometer) in diameter with the equatorial trench being one mile in height. Not that much smaller than the 160 km figure.

[Shroom Man 777]

I bet the Death Star has a polymorphic liquid metal mantle that shifts, allowing the exterior armor plating to tectonically shift and contract whenever needed, for hyperspatial hyperdynamic streamlining, for realspace combat needs, etc. with the liquid mantle seeping out and solidifying to cover any damage.

[Galvatron]

I bet the Death Star has a polymorphic liquid metal mantle that shifts, allowing the exterior armor plating to tectonically shift and contract whenever needed, for hyperspatial hyperdynamic streamlining, for realspace combat needs, etc. with the liquid mantle seeping out and solidifying to cover any damage.

I think you're right.

[Admiral Valdemar]

So, this?

MIMETIC POLYALLOY. But that means it can only form stabby things.

Unless it's transformium. Then it can form The Pill, by Beats.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I also didn't realise when listening to the soundtrack that "Hope" is played during a scene where all I picture now is multiple Rebels being Force choked, cut in half, and screaming "LAAAAUNNNCH!" as they get massacred. Apt.

[Thanas]

Some of those ships were just the small Hoth transports though. Given that Rouge One indicates ramming will allow a corvette to physically smash a star destroyers hul at low velocity...something I'm not too happy about, it'd almost be insane not to use mass ramships in a fleet action. Might have been the reason to take transports which are not otherwise known to be armed into battle. This means the Space Taliban would be 10,000% effective.

Also it'd go a long way towards explaining why a 19km long battleship was so useless, closing the range should have only favored the damn thing since its arcs of fire forward are so restricted. If it ate several ramships early in the action that might be that.

ROTJ novelization excplicitly mentions smaller transports being used as ramships, the quote being something like "crews abandoned small transports set for collision course against larger ships" (read it in German, so no direct quote) when describing the battle.

[Iroscato]

They might come in handy blocking turbolaser bolts aimed at capital ships, as well.

[The Romulan Republic]

Okay, I've finally seen the film now.

To be honest, I didn't like most of it very much. No big reason, just a lot of little reasons, though some of that may be subjective. It wasn't bad, just not great.

That said, some of the visuals were very good, with a sense of scale TFA usually lacked (this film should stand a good chance of winning a visual effects Oscar), and the actors did their jobs well.

And frankly, its almost worth seeing just for the last ten minutes, and particularly for seeing James Earl Jones as Vader on the big screen again. Likewise, as a nostalgia trip for OT fans, its excellent. And Jyn was an example of a female protagonist that avoided the common pitfalls, being neither gratuitously sexualized or a case of the film trying to hard to make a point of "look, we have a strong female lead".*

I also liked seeing Bail Organa again, and the shout out to General Syndulla in the background at Yaving Base.

*If their are two things I think the Disney films/shows have done fairly consistently well with Star Wars, its the presentation of Vader, and of female protagonists as protagonists, without feeling compelled to make a big deal out of their gender.

Edited the last sentence for greater precision.

[wautd]

I finally got to see it as well. Pretty good time to be a Star Wars fan. If all future movies are as descent I'm more than happy.
I liked it more than The Force Awakens, if only because Rogue One has more interesting villains than the New Order wannabes

[Lord Revan]

Krennic was that Hux should have been in many way. One the major problems of TFA was that there wasn't any competent First Order officers Phasma mostly stood about and looked menazing, Kylo Ren had serious anger management issues and Hux couldn't out fight a wet paper bag. in OT you had Vader who was always a threat you needed to take seriously, hell even General Grevious for all his goofiness was still a threat you needed to take somewhat seriously. the First Order never felt like it could pose the threat on the level of the Sith Order, CIS or the Galactic Empire.

[Admiral Valdemar]

If it weren't for Star Killer Base, I'd have a hard time giving any reason as to why anyone should fear the First Order. If they're the remnants of the Empire in the new canon, taking on the role Thrawn and his fleets did while Palpy got reincarnated, then they should be shown to have that kind of heft to them. Instead, it's like the New Republic has literally a squadron of T-70s and the First Order have a single ISD like ship and some TIEs. Also, a bigger, badder Death Star that has an even more prominent weakness for no real reason.

The anthology films at least, being set in the original trilogy time, have all that settled. We know what the stakes are, who the main players are, and what this all means. We had the prequels setting up Palpatine and Vader, and the OT displays what they've done to freedom in the galaxy in just a couple decades. Had I not read more on TFA, I wouldn't be able to say from the film what is even going on without resorting to now removed novel synopses. Hell, I didn't even realise Star Killer Base fired beams through hyperspace and all that guff. I figured it was just a reskinned DS with a nice landscaping job.

[Khaat]

*snip* Hell, I didn't even realise Star Killer Base fired beams through hyperspace and all that guff. I figured it was just a reskinned DS with a nice landscaping job.

There is a single throw-away line of dialog during the Resistance briefing where it is mentioned to be a "hyperspace beam weapon". I didn't catch it until the 2nd or 3rd time through, and only because I was specifically looking for it (subtitles are great.)

[Admiral Valdemar]

There is a single throw-away line of dialog during the Resistance briefing where it is mentioned to be a "hyperspace beam weapon". I didn't catch it until the 2nd or 3rd time through, and only because I was specifically looking for it (subtitles are great.)

Huh. Well, I've only seen it the once, so really need to rewatch it, as I was going to binge all the SW films prior to R1. I was hoping it wouldn't be another situation like the rebooted Trek where Nero's ship abilities are explained in a tie-in graphic novel or something.

[Galvatron]

The First Order was a joke, but they had teeth because the New Republic didn't have the political will to do anything about them. Going into Episode VIII, however, the First Order might have the most dominant military in the galaxy even after losing the Starkiller.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I'd have preferred some threat like the Vong turning up. A New Republic that has the resources of the conquered portions of the Empire, still dealing with the remnants in the less easily toppled strongholds, but otherwise dealing with internal bickering while a new threat appears.

If you're only a threat because everyone else turned their swords into ploughshares, well, kinda makes for a duff drama.