torture

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-27 06:31pm

Darth Pounder wrote:
Queeb Salaron wrote:It actually REALLY reminds me of a move (the name of which I can't remember) where these homeless Irish boys were arrested for bombing a nightclub in Dublin or Belfast... I don't remember which... and the police deprived them of food and sleep until they broke down and signed confessions saying they were guilty. Then the boy's parents and whole family were arrested because they allegedly found "bomb-making material" (sink-cleaner) in a kitchen cabinet. He ends up in the same jail cell with his father who he despises. Greatest movie quote of all time:

"I wrote your name -- I wrote your Guiseppe fucking name in the snow... and pissed on it!"

I just wish I could remember the name of the movie.... Someone help me out?
It was a movie called "In The Name Of The Father" and IIRC it was about the Brighton Bomsing. It was pure Provie propaganda and not worth a shit.

True. But the cinematography was fantastic. And that's really all I care about.

Post by **Steve** » 2003-03-27 09:00pm

To purposely inflict harm on a human being is morally wrong on so many levels. At the very best, if it would save thousands and thousands of lives, it would be a necessary evil and should haunt those who commit it for the rest of their lives. If it didn't, I'd have to question their humanity.

Torture is evil. It is a tool used to destroy lives, to destroy a person's soul, if you will. It is used to humiliate and degrade a person, to make them little better than a plaything, a toy, in the hands of the torturer, who gains satisfaction from his victim's pain. Anyone who commits these despicable deeds willfully with glee should be shot on sight.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-03-27 09:20pm

Steve wrote:To purposely inflict harm on a human being is morally wrong on so many levels. At the very best, if it would save thousands and thousands of lives, it would be a necessary evil and should haunt those who commit it for the rest of their lives. If it didn't, I'd have to question their humanity.

Torture is evil. It is a tool used to destroy lives, to destroy a person's soul, if you will. It is used to humiliate and degrade a person, to make them little better than a plaything, a toy, in the hands of the torturer, who gains satisfaction from his victim's pain. Anyone who commits these despicable deeds willfully with glee should be shot on sight.

You're confusing torture as an interrogative device with sadism.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-27 09:57pm

right. you can torture someone and still feel quite calm about it.

Post by **Steve** » 2003-03-27 10:20pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:right. you can torture someone and still feel quite calm about it.

Torture as a method of interrogation is much the same. To purposely inflict harm, to degrade and humiliate a person to the point that they can be manipulated and bent to the torturer's will (or interrogator if you prefer).

And torturing someone for information isn't effective either, not over a period of time. Because if you hurt them too much, they'll say what they think you want to hear to end the pain.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-27 10:25pm

So we've just discovered that infamous fundie and Nazi supporter Pat Buchanan supports the use of torture. Gee, what a shock.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-03-27 10:28pm

Steve wrote:
Enforcer Talen wrote:right. you can torture someone and still feel quite calm about it.
Torture as a method of interrogation is much the same. To purposely inflict harm, to degrade and humiliate a person to the point that they can be manipulated and bent to the torturer's will (or interrogator if you prefer).

And torturing someone for information isn't effective either, not over a period of time. Because if you hurt them too much, they'll say what they think you want to hear to end the pain.

This is true -- torture is not always effective. Other interrogation techniques are generally more useful, but almost invariably require more time. Psychological attack being a form of torture in the eyes of some, we are left with only assimilative techniques, which take weeks or even months. Deadlines are not always so kind as to allow such broad timeframes.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-27 10:29pm

Damnit, now I can't support use of selective torture because that asshole does.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-03-27 10:31pm

kojikun wrote:Damnit, now I can't support use of selective torture because that asshole does.

Well, I'm probably going to get slapped for this, but isn't that an ad hominem?

Post by **Steve** » 2003-03-27 10:59pm

Darth Wong wrote:So we've just discovered that infamous fundie and Nazi supporter Pat Buchanan supports the use of torture. Gee, what a shock.

I know, I was so surprised that I nearly had a heart attack!

:roll:

Kuroneko · Post by **Kuroneko** » 2003-03-27 10:59pm

Raoul Duke, Jr. wrote:
kojikun wrote:Damnit, now I can't support use of selective torture because that asshole does.
Well, I'm probably going to get slapped for this, but isn't that an ad hominem?

Yes, considering the given reason, it is.

Raoul Duke, Jr. · Post by **Raoul Duke, Jr.** » 2003-03-28 10:02am

Now, at the risk of sounding like a cold, calculating asshole, I'm going to make a suggestion about torture:

As Tom Aurum suggested (and for once he seems to have struck gold) the most effective torture methods for interrogation don't damage the subject.

An effective interrogation method would be 1 part physical in nature and 3 parts psychological, for example combining constant sleep deprivation through intravenous administration of low-level stimulants in a nutrient suspension with random sound & light bombardment. To enhance the mindfuck factor, full restraints would be applied with the exception of randomly leaving partial range of motion in alternating extremities. With full restraints in place, of course, catheterization would be necessary, as well as bedpanning. These biological function aids would be changed only as often as absolutely necessary to maintain minimal sanitation standards.

Additionally, interrogators questioning the subject would be instructed to show no emotion whatsoever unless the subject provided information supported by corroborative evidence. Rewards might include a hot solid meal under heavy guard, or an extra hour of uninterrupted sleep.

While not physically damaging to the subject, such a procedure would prove intensely demoralizing, and could potentially dismantle even the toughest of mental preconditioning.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-03-28 02:14pm

In war time, those "backrooms" are always in operation. Even in peace times actually. In Vietnam there were prisoner processing centers, where useful ones were herded out (can you guess where the non-useful ones went), and taken to backrooms for "interrogation." Also, the pretty female prisoners captured were also sometimes herded out as well whether or not they had useful information.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-03-28 02:33pm

Trytostaydead wrote:Also, the pretty female prisoners captured were also sometimes herded out as well whether or not they had useful information.

I can see where you're going with that one... Please prove it.

ArmorPierce · Post by **ArmorPierce** » 2003-03-28 11:26pm

As long as the US has double standards on the treatment of prisoners, we can have our cake and eat it too.