How would you do ROTJ differently?

[The Romulan Republic]

I would make it clear that most of the Empire's governors, admirals, generals and various other top-ranking officials were invited to witness the end of the rebellion and are aboard the Death Star when it explodes.

This has big pros and cons.

Pro: It makes it easier to justify how the Empire collapsed quickly after Palpatine's death, for those who find that hard to buy (I don't particularly, but I know some do).

Con: It seems too convenient, and makes the Empire seem even stupider.

Though on the subject of Imperial government, I'd like to try to fit in a scene or two on Coruscant early on. Both to show how the once glorious capital is suffering under Imperial rule, and to show the true scope of the galaxy, since most of the OT takes place on the fringes.

Maybe a meeting like the one on the Death Star in A New Hope, except with Palpatine and his inner circle on Coruscant, before he goes to the Death Star?

Showing Coruscant under the Imperial yolk, I think, would also give the Special Edition ending montage where everyone rises up across the galaxy to celebrate the Empire's fall, if you kept it, more impact.

[Galvatron]

Con: It seems too convenient, and makes the Empire seem even stupider.

Overconfident is the word I'd use. The fact that the Emperor himself was willing to serve as bait tells me that he felt there was zero chance of a rebel victory.

[The Romulan Republic]

I suppose that's a fair point.

[Crazedwraith]

Con: It seems too convenient, and makes the Empire seem even stupider.

Overconfident is the word I'd use. The fact that the Emperor himself was willing to serve as bait tells me that he felt there was zero chance of a rebel victory.

Nah, he just knew he could move into a new clone body.

[The Romulan Republic]

Hasn't that been decanonized?

[Galvatron]

Hmm, ok, maybe I should change the parameters somewhat. Keep same characters as established in ANH and ESB, Rebellion story arc must be resolved, Luke/Vader arc must be resolved, Han rescued etc. But change the details.

I thought that's what I was doing. Nothing in my version of ROTJ changes anything from ANH or TESB.

[Eternal_Freedom]

By that I mean Vader is Luke's father and is also Anakin.

[Galvatron]

That's a pretty strict condition for "being in Lucas' shoes" and ostensibly having the freedom to redo ROTJ.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well it's what I've given you.

[Galvatron]

Oh well, it's your thread.

I'd increase the number of ships in both fleets. We'd see every model of warship in the Imperial Starfleet, from the smallest gunships to the largest dreadnoughts. It would be like a smorgasbord of fractalsponge's work.

I'd also show a much larger and far more diverse rebel fleet, including older designs from the Clone Wars and even earlier.

Finally, I think I'd replace the second Death Star with the Starkiller.

[The Romulan Republic]

That sort of stuff is nice background detail for the hardcore fans, but fairly inconsequential from a story perspective. Although I would have, as I said, liked to see more of a focus on the capital ship combat. Obviously the first focus should be on the scenes on the Death Star (or whatever substitute you would add) with Luke, Vader, and Palpatine. That's the cornerstone of the entire story, and is ultimately going to be far more engaging to most audience members, if done well, than battle porn. But a couple detailed sequences of capital ships trading broadsides, and the point of view of the crew aboard the big ships (like that brief sequence we got in the battle of Corsucant when a Venator broadsided Grievous's ship, which is one of my favourite moments in that battle) would not be remiss. Maybe a scene where a brave Rebel captain orders his men to abandon their doomed ship before ramming it into an Imperial ship (as was described, as I recall, in the novelization).

Above all, make the ordinary rank and file troops matter to the audience. That's something I loved about the Vader massacre scene from Rogue One- it made me care about the desperate struggle of nameless rank and file rebels.

You could also show the damage to the Executor in more detail with modern effects, I imagine. Show that it took a real pounding before going down, rather than seeming like a paper tiger.

Oh, and on the subject of fighter combat: don't have, like, the first two Rebel pilots killed on-screen be the token black one and the token Asian one. Put some female (and alien) pilots in their. Show the diversity of the Alliance, to contrast with the uniformity of the Imperials.

Edit: And I wouldn't mind seeing some CIS ships in their, if only because I love the Trade Fed. and Subjugator class designs.

[Gandalf]

Palpatine has no Force powers. He's clever, and good at manipulating people, but not a space wizard. Maybe set it at Mustafar, to really get the idea that to take this fight to the Empire, they need to go through this hell. It's where Vader was "born" and where he might be redeemed. Also Palpatine is the devil, not because of his space wizard lightning, but in that he will offer people whatever they want if they'll do something for him.

Also, make the rescue of Han way shorter.

[Ender]

Editing of the ground battle makes spatial awareness a bit rough. But that is meant for dramatic effect (emphasise the chaos and how badly the battle is going) and has a deliberate payoff with Chewie in the walker. Go back to the original shorter and more sombre cut of the end celebration with less of the ewoks dancing and more of the funeral pyre. Drop the Jabba's palace song and dance sequence.

I dunno, original cut of ROTJ is really well put together as a film. I guess if I was given the options of making changes to all of them I might make some more changes to ROTJ so that I could fit in large changes to the prequels and have the ring theory still hold, but by and large there isn't much worth tweaking with it.

[The Romulan Republic]

"Ring theory"?

Anyway, yeah, RotJ isn't a bad film as is, by any means.

[The Romulan Republic]

Palpatine has no Force powers. He's clever, and good at manipulating people, but not a space wizard. Maybe set it at Mustafar, to really get the idea that to take this fight to the Empire, they need to go through this hell. It's where Vader was "born" and where he might be redeemed. Also Palpatine is the devil, not because of his space wizard lightning, but in that he will offer people whatever they want if they'll do something for him.

Also, make the rescue of Han way shorter.

One could fairly ask what Palpatine could offer Vader to make Vader take him seriously, if not greater power in the Force.

On the other hand, he did seem to respect Tarkin as an equal, if not a superior, in A New Hope. Perhaps Palpatine has an understanding of the nuances of politics that Vader lacks?

[Gandalf]

One could fairly ask what Palpatine could offer Vader to make Vader take him seriously, if not greater power in the Force.

I imagine that Young Vader was a fundamentally good guy who wanted to do all sorts of good during the darkness of the Clone Wars. No matter how much he does as a Jedi, there's no satisfying wins because the defensive outlook of the Jedi and the Republic effectively forces a prolonged stalemate during which all sorts of destruction abounds. However, Vader feels that if he could start being inherently offensive, killing thousands to save billions, killing millions to save quadrillions, and so on, then the war could be ended tomorrow. So new chancellor Palpatine grants this wish on one condition; that he helps to end the Jedi order. At the cost of the reactionary Jedi, Vader could bring peace to the galaxy.

On the other hand, he did seem to respect Tarkin as an equal, if not a superior, in A New Hope. Perhaps Palpatine has an understanding of the nuances of politics that Vader lacks?

Yeah, I like the idea of Vader as a mighty Jedi who just isn't too insightful at times.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not stupid, of course- A big part of what puts Vader a cut above a lot of Dark Sider Force users is not simply raw power, but the fact that he is cold, deliberate, precise, very rarely losing control of his emotions (compare him to his grandson in canon, for instance).

But Vader doesn't come across as someone who has sufficient patience for listening to and caring about (or convincingly pretending to care about) what he would perceive as other peoples' petty concerns, to master politics.

[The Romulan Republic]

To elaborate on that, I think that Vader is someone who, in his brutal, ruthless, and uncompromising way, understands warfare very well. He's experienced, a capable tactician, familiar with the technology being used, a skilled personal combatant, and, while overly draconian and unforgiving, is capable of motivating and disciplining his subordinates. But he's not much use at anything outside of the military arena.

At least, that's how I'd probably portray Vader for something like this, and I feel that its fairly consistent with his canon portrayal as well.

[Darth Yan]

I think Palpatine being a wizard makes sense. You need to have someone for Vader to turn away from.

My two cents? I would have had Yoda and Obi Wan admit that they lied in part from shame; they DID try to redeem vader so they don't think he can be. They were worried that if luke tried he would die. They also admit that they were partially responsible for his fall, failing to be there for him during a time of extreme crisis. Luke tells them that he still thinks Vader can be redeemed. The others are adamant though.

Basically in one fan novelization of assassins creed 3 (which came out after rogue) Achilles tells Connor about Shay and reveals that his reckless and selfish actions helped cause Cormac's fall from grace and the templar's rise to power in the colonies. Something similar with Yoda; they admit that they feel responsible for vader's fall and are worried that luke would try to save him if he knew (or he might join vader).

[Galvatron]

One could fairly ask what Palpatine could offer Vader to make Vader take him seriously, if not greater power in the Force.

Dominion over all the worlds of the galaxy.

FWIW, my characterization of Vader would be very similar to Gandalf's. The fact that he's not Anakin Skywalker doesn't mean he can't start out with the same good intentions.

[The Romulan Republic]

That's interesting, and it actually makes a certain amount of sense.

Gandalf refuses the Ring because he knows that he would succumb to the temptation:

'No! cried Gandalf, springing to his feet. 'With that power I should have power too great and terrible. And over me the Ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly.' His eyes flashed and his face was lit as by a fire within. 'Do not tempt me! For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself. Yet the way of the Ring to my heart is by pity, pity for weakness and the desire of strength to do good. Do not tempt me! I dare not take it, not even to keep it safe, unused. The wish to wield it would be too great for my strength. I shall have such need of it. Great perils lie before me.'

So Anakin as a "Gandalf" who made that initial mistake of not refusing the temptation outright could work.

[Galvatron]

So Anakin as a "Gandalf" who made that initial mistake of not refusing the temptation outright could work.

Yep, although my inspiration was something quite a bit older. I was referring to Gandalf the poster, not the character.

As for Palpatine not being a space wizard, that leaves us asking why Vader calls him "Master" and how he knows about disturbances in the Force.

My rationalization would be that their relationship is master and servant, not master and apprentice. Additionally, Palpatine may not have powers of his own, but he surrounds himself with seers and relics that are able to advise him on matters of the arcane (not unlike the Prophets of the Dark Side from the old EU).

[The Romulan Republic]

I wouldn't be surprised if your inspiration and Tolkien's are the same. Tolkien was, after all, a devout Catholic.

I don't know, I still have a hard time seeing Vader serving a non-Force users like that. But I suppose if Palpatine could offer him something he could not get himself (like political influence as opposed to purely military prowess), and was too strong mentally to simply be intimidated or directly mind-controlled into serving Vader...

[Galvatron]

I imagine Palpatine being clever enough to employ countermeasures that would prevent Vader from simply controlling his mind. Sorta like the relationship between Thrawn and C'Baoth.

[Simon_Jester]

For that matter, there's plenty of room in Star Wars for the idea that a person who lacks the Force, but has a strong, well-disciplined mind can resist the use of the Force on their mind. Obi-Wan tells us that the Force influences 'the weak-minded.' Jabba mocks his guards for being 'weak-minded fools' for falling prey to a Jedi mind trick, and is himself immune to such tricks.

Instead of assuming that Jabba can do this because he's some kind of weird alien, why not just assume that very powerful people (like crime lords who run vast criminal empires, or galactic overlords) tend to have minds too strong to be psychically overpowered by the Force?

Since we know the Jedi will use mind tricks for the greater good when necessary (to reform a criminal, to get past a guard, to evade a search)... The idea that the mind trick doesn't reliably work on strong-minded people would help explain why the Jedi don't use it more often, or use it all the time as a 'spam' thing in complex situations.