Shield Issue

[Adam Reynolds]

Random thought; why do people think they must be shield generators/projectors? I know, because that officer says "We've lost our bridge deflector shields" after a globe is destroyed. But only one globe is destroyed, not both, so unless port and starboard globes covered different areas, the bridge shields should have some redundancy to them.

For one of the few examples of shield failure that we see visually, Gungan shields do this as well, in which a hit to a single emitter drops the entire shield grid.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Random thought; why do people think they must be shield generators/projectors? I know, because that officer says "We've lost our bridge deflector shields" after a globe is destroyed. But only one globe is destroyed, not both, so unless port and starboard globes covered different areas, the bridge shields should have some redundancy to them.

For one of the few examples of shield failure that we see visually, Gungan shields do this as well, in which a hit to a single emitter drops the entire shield grid.

Are we sure about that? IIRC the Gungan shields were a series of overlapping domes, eac with an emitter/projector pair. I'd have to go back and watch TPM again (ugh) to see if all the shield domes collapsed or just that one.

[fractalsponge1]

Random thought; why do people think they must be shield generators/projectors? I know, because that officer says "We've lost our bridge deflector shields" after a globe is destroyed. But only one globe is destroyed, not both, so unless port and starboard globes covered different areas, the bridge shields should have some redundancy to them.

For one of the few examples of shield failure that we see visually, Gungan shields do this as well, in which a hit to a single emitter drops the entire shield grid.

Still required getting INSIDE the shield to do it. And I think it collapses the one bubble. The second one if I remember right is offscreen but at that point it was a general retreat of the gungan army.

The Executor has SIX domes, all closely grouped around the tower. So if one globe drops coverage for half the bridge, how do these six generators cover the hull?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Ghetto edit: Welp, had a looksie at the battle again - the Gungan shields are definitely overlapping domes. One of the generators or projectors gets taken out and that dome drops. The Gungan general then sounds the retreat, which is presumably why the other domes dropped...which allowed the droid tanks to advance and rout them. Dumb.

But yeah, hitting the projector seems to only bring down the shield it's projecting, which makes sense. So we are left with two possibilities - the starboard-side globe thing was what provided the bridge shields for Executor while the undamaged portside globe did something else, or (and more likely in my opinion) the globe being hit and exploding is a symptom of the bridge shields failing, not a cause, it's what brings it tot he attention of the crew.

And fractal's point is well-made, the Gungan example required droids to be inside the shield to hit the generator/projector.

[fractalsponge1]

I feel like the shield generator thing is on par with "TIE wings are solar panels" in the pantheon of received SW wisdom that is in fact bullshit.

Is it possible as one function? Sure. Is making that the primary function or source of a ship characteristic consistent with known capabilities? Hell no.

[Adam Reynolds]

Still required getting INSIDE the shield to do it. And I think it collapses the one bubble. The second one if I remember right is offscreen but at that point it was a general retreat of the gungan army.

The Executor has SIX domes, all closely grouped around the tower. So if one globe drops coverage for half the bridge, how do these six generators cover the hull?

I would never argue that they do. It is possible they are localized bridge shields that were combined with existing sensors to give additional localized protection from fighter attacks, while the main hull relied on thick armor for this purpose, having learned the lesson about vulnerability to enemy fighters during the Clone Wars.

The primary outer shields were still up at this point, it was just that most of the fighters were already beneath them. Which explains why Piet was worried about fighters rather than turbolasers. They explicitly say that they lost their bridge deflector shield, not that they lost their primary shields.


Looking at it again, I would concur that the Gungan example is inconclusive. We only directly see the main shield drop and it is possible that the other shields dropped as the Gungans retreated rather than as a result of the initial hit.

[fractalsponge1]

I don't think there's any conclusive evidence that shields are permeable to fighters.

Let's go back again: how do you kill the shield generator (for any part of the ship) without dropping the shield it projects over itself? This is a key question in the sensor globe vs shield generator argument, one I have never heard a counter to besides "X book/game says they are shield generators."

[Eternal_Freedom]

Now that I think about it, I can provide a quote showing that even if they are shield globes, they don't cover the whole ship. During the battle against Razor's Kiss in X-Wing: Iron Fist, the shield globes on the stolen SSD are destroyed - by a fighter already inside the shields.

An officer on Iron Fist reports to Zsinj "Razor's Kiss reports catastrophic failure of her topside shield generators!" So yeah, they don't cover everything.

[Galvatron]

Just to throw some more fuel on this fire, isn't it also possible that the geodesic spheres we're discussing are merely protective coverings for projector dishes like the one on Endor? Real-world geodesic radomes contain traditional parabolic antennae in exactly this way, but they're obviously not used as shield generators.



What I'm getting at is this: merely being a geodesic sphere, even if it does contain a parabolic antenna, doesn't automatically dictate its function. At least, not in Star Wars.

[Scottish Ninja]

Say what? There was consensus about what the globes were pre-RotJ? Like by who and how, and how do you know?

Look at the Geoffrey Mandel blueprints - these were apparently official publications from 1978. The domes are clearly labeled Long-Range Scanners, though many other details are obviously different from what's on-screen.

[Imperial528]

It would be rather pointless to cover a shield projector in a permanent protective covering given that Star Wars shields affect physical objects and would presumably interact negatively with any such covering.

If such a covering can be made of significantly strong materials which do not interact with the shield, it begs the question of making projectiles out of such materials to defeat shielding outright.

[Galvatron]

Maybe they only project ray shields. After all, didn't the Falcon land on the Avenger's conning tower right after Captain Needa ordered his crew to raise the shields?

[Imperial528]

Maybe they only project ray shields. After all, didn't the Falcon land on the Avenger's conning tower right after Captain Needa ordered his crew to raise the shields?

I can't recall the exact order of events for that scene, but it would be a monumental design flaw to only have ray shielding for the bridge tower when the rest of the ship has full deflector shielding. Not to mention monumentally stupid that the rebellion didn't adopt weapons to take advantage of that.

[Galvatron]

I thought that's what proton torpedoes were for. That's definitely why they were necessary at the Battle of Yavin.

Maybe Imperial warships are similarly equipped and rely on point defense lasers to shoot down solid projectiles. Kinda like how they blasted the asteroids in TESB.

[Wien1938]

The discussion here makes sense. It's quite possible that the successful A-Wing attack, which destroyed one of the sensor domes, happened as the rebel fleet's concentrated firepower took down the Executor's shield array (in that quarter). It is possible then that the shield array for the bridge area was destroyed or damaged as a result of the A-Wing strike.

On a side note, I'd always taken it (without further reading) that the A-Wing fighter that crashed into the bridge was out-of-control, rather than a ramming attack. A kind of f***-you from fate to the Empire.

[SpottedKitty]

On a side note, I'd always taken it (without further reading) that the A-Wing fighter that crashed into the bridge was out-of-control, rather than a ramming attack. A kind of f***-you from fate to the Empire.

<nod> Wasn't it actually badly damaged and tumbling? I never thought of that as a deliberate ram, either.

[Lord Revan]

On a side note, I'd always taken it (without further reading) that the A-Wing fighter that crashed into the bridge was out-of-control, rather than a ramming attack. A kind of f***-you from fate to the Empire.

<nod> Wasn't it actually badly damaged and tumbling? I never thought of that as a deliberate ram, either.

it was clearly spinning and it looked to be out of control. The level of damage is hard to say as they didn't make a seperate model for it and the scene is too quick.

[Adam Reynolds]

I thought that's what proton torpedoes were for. That's definitely why they were necessary at the Battle of Yavin.

Maybe Imperial warships are similarly equipped and rely on point defense lasers to shoot down solid projectiles. Kinda like how they blasted the asteroids in TESB.

Except they only blasted the larger asteroids. There were a couple cases of minor asteroids clearly impacting the shields. I know this page is eight years old, but look at the image.

The exhaust port was a special case. You know, because it is an exhaust port.

EDIT: Crap, just noticed the date.

[Galvatron]

What's the visible difference between an asteroid impacting shields versus impacting the hull?

[Adam Reynolds]

What's the visible difference between an asteroid impacting shields versus impacting the hull?

It's the flash effect in which asteroids are vaporized. We clearly see the opposite in Clone Wars in which the Munificent class physically pushes asteroids out of the way.

[NecronLord]

I feel like the shield generator thing is on par with "TIE wings are solar panels" in the pantheon of received SW wisdom that is in fact bullshit.

It's one of these things that is simply a product of the original creators - they were called solar panels in one of Lucas' scripts and the storyboards - wanting them to look like true spacecraft without necessarily sitting down and working out the engine performance map.

It can't be true - though I imagine they can run a TIE's hotel load, if that's an appropriate term for 'aircraft' in terms of avionics and life support just fine, though - but it was a cool idea nonetheless.

[NecronLord]

I don't think there's any conclusive evidence that shields are permeable to fighters.

I think there's a fairly comprehensive body of evidence, Brian Young has some very persuasive arguments with examples from the films and clone wars, showing that small craft can variously attack and harm, or even dock with, ships on a consistant basis when that shouldn't be possible if the shields are an omnibarrier.

You and I know this is because fighters are cool and the writers want fighters to be able to hurt things, but when 'the slow blade penetrates the shield' is explicitly true for some things (droidekas) and fighters consistantly do damage to ships that big cannons don't, it is, if not conclusive, then quite persuasive at least.

I can show that argument in full in a separate thread if it would interest you to discuss it?

Let's go back again: how do you kill the shield generator (for any part of the ship) without dropping the shield it projects over itself? This is a key question in the sensor globe vs shield generator argument, one I have never heard a counter to besides "X book/game says they are shield generators."

It's an X-wing brainbug, as I recall in those games, the domes themselves were outside the shield; the dome didn't project a shield over itself, so you could make attack runs on it and blow it up, then the rest of the ship was vulnerable once you'd done that.

This is incidentally, shown on screen in Rogue One, and I'd be unsurprised if the writers had that notion in mind when they showed the dome-destruction there.

Of course I much (much) prefer the domes as sensor globes and with nothing to do with the shield system.

[Galvatron]

What's the visible difference between an asteroid impacting shields versus impacting the hull?

It's the flash effect in which asteroids are vaporized. We clearly see the opposite in Clone Wars in which the Munificent class physically pushes asteroids out of the way.

I'm still not sure what that conclusively proves. In TESB, we saw two fast-moving asteroids collide and explode in a fireball. No shields involved there.

So how do we know the one shown hitting the ISD didn't simply explode upon impact with the ship's hull as well?

[Anacronian]

In "Star Wars Complete Locations" the "Globes" are described to contain "Hyperwave Transiver coils and Long-range Scanners that feed targeting information to the ships weapon system".

But the "spikes" on the globe is described as "Local-area shield projector Vanes".

(This is on the Executor bridge)