Trump Dump: Internal Policy (Thread I)

[Highlord Laan]

The GOP has been cracking apart since the Berlin Wall fell. Suddenly, the big bad Bear couldn't be held up as an imminent threat, and the far-right portions that have always existed in the Republican structure started agitating. Post Gulf War and the election of Clinton, they got worse. Shrub the Lesser placated them some, but only ended up emboldening them by pandering to their bullshit. The election of Obama threw them into a fury, and his re election pushed them into pure batshit territory.

Now the minority repubs are the sane ones, and the fanatics have become good at whipping hordes of stupid people into screaming mobs.

[Simon_Jester]

aren't all potential "heirs to the throne" 10 times worse then Trump though.

No. For example, Mike Pence would be bad for the US in a lot of ways, but he can at least govern. His time as governor of Indiana indicates that he at least knows how to do something other than just sit in the Oval Office and fester.

so wouldn't it be better for Trump to trash his reputations in the public eye and take the (extremist wing of the) GOP down with him? I'll admit I'm not 100% sure about how the US system works in this case but IIRC it isn't case where you keep impeaching people until a candidate you like comes up.

You impeach people specifically for crimes and malfeasance and misconduct.

An impeachment trial would tend to bring about a lot of investigations and airing of evidence that could potentially do a lot to discredit the Tea wing of the Republicans, but it's hard to say exactly what would happen. Nixon's fall didn't discredit the Republican Party in national eyes, after all.

No, it would require dropping a nuke in the memory hole. Most congress members were there with Dubya and just like everyone in that administration have never been called to answer for their support of his war of aggression, rendition, or torture. And they won't be called to account for the horrors President Pussygrabber will undoubtedly inflict upon the world.

Some nukes need to be dropped. The Bush administration's actions could and should have been punished- maybe we wouldn't be here today if America had the moral fiber to draw the line at the things Bush did.

But it's going to keep getting worse, and if we don't say at some point "this is more abuse of the Constitution than we can stand, this is actively threatening the democratic fabric of our country's government," then sooner or later the fabric will tear entirely.

I can accept a hypocritical shrug about past crimes if it's the price of making sure we draw a big deep slice across the current crimes and say "thus far, no farther."

[Flagg]

Remember, it wasn't Bush II that caused the rift in the GlOP, it was the election of Barack Obama.

I recall those cracks appearing in 2005 or so, when the mixture of Terri Schiavo and Hurricane Katrina forced people to acknowledge the divisions in the party along with GWB just being a shitty leader, culminating in their losses in 2006. Though this might be us just having a different conception of the same series of events.

There were micro fractures in the starboard nacell (Damn You Star Trek), but the real "cracks" were between the mindless middle and Bush's handling of the Katrina aftermath (like taking 3 days for the shitburger to go to Loseranna) . The "pro-life" crowd absolutely loved Bush for it, but the libertarians hated it. Not that it cost anything.

[Flagg]

No, it would require dropping a nuke in the memory hole. Most congress members were there with Dubya and just like everyone in that administration have never been called to answer for their support of his war of aggression, rendition, or torture. And they won't be called to account for the horrors President Pussygrabber will undoubtedly inflict upon the world.

Some nukes need to be dropped.
The Bush administration's actions could and should have been punished- maybe we wouldn't be here today if America had the moral fiber to draw the line at the things Bush did.

But it's going to keep getting worse, and if we don't say at some point "this is more abuse of the Constitution than we can stand, this is actively threatening the democratic fabric of our country's government," then sooner or later the fabric will tear entirely.

I can accept a hypocritical shrug about past crimes if it's the price of making sure we draw a big deep slice across the current crimes and say "thus far, no farther."

I agree completely. Can you tell?

[Thanas]

Some nukes need to be dropped. The Bush administration's actions could and should have been punished- maybe we wouldn't be here today if America had the moral fiber to draw the line at the things Bush did.

But it's going to keep getting worse, and if we don't say at some point "this is more abuse of the Constitution than we can stand, this is actively threatening the democratic fabric of our country's government," then sooner or later the fabric will tear entirely.

I can accept a hypocritical shrug about past crimes if it's the price of making sure we draw a big deep slice across the current crimes and say "thus far, no farther."

The US in its current form is incapable of self-reflection and a genuine healing process that includes making amends to its victims because it still is "the greatest country in the world".

The last time such an attempt was made was during vietnam and it barely lasted a decade (and huge portions of society were never part of it).

[Thanas]

Trump's first month of lies.

[Flagg]

Some nukes need to be dropped. The Bush administration's actions could and should have been punished- maybe we wouldn't be here today if America had the moral fiber to draw the line at the things Bush did.

But it's going to keep getting worse, and if we don't say at some point "this is more abuse of the Constitution than we can stand, this is actively threatening the democratic fabric of our country's government," then sooner or later the fabric will tear entirely.

I can accept a hypocritical shrug about past crimes if it's the price of making sure we draw a big deep slice across the current crimes and say "thus far, no farther."

The US in its current form is incapable of self-reflection and a genuine healing process that includes making amends to its victims because it still is "the greatest country in the world".

The last time such an attempt was made was during vietnam and it barely lasted a decade (and huge portions of society were never part of it).

Yeah, the "USA! USA! USA!" shit starts from kindergarten (socially, rather than home-life) and goes on from there. Aside from pledging allegiance to a dyed piece of cloth, being told we're the best at everything ever, and every social studies/history book and/or lesson becoming more pro-America until you hit the Civil War. Then it was the bad Confederates (slaveowners, to a man!) who get beaten by Lincoln and it's America: Rah! Rah! Rah! Right up to a small Vietnam speed bump and then into post 9/11 America is God.

We're going to need to lose a war (and I'm not talking about some Middle Eastern adventure) and be held accountable, which may happen in a millennium or 2.

[Flagg]

Trump's first month of lies.

This must be the hugely abbriged version at 4:06.

[Flagg]

NBCNews

Donald Trump Explains Sweden Terror Comment That Baffled a Nation
by Phil McCausland

After bewildering residents and officials of Sweden by suggesting Saturday that a terror-related incident had occurred over the weekend in the small Nordic nation, President Donald Trump attributed his comment to a Fox News interview with a conservative filmmaker.

"We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany, you look at what's happening last night in Sweden," Trump told the crowd at his campaign-like rally in Florida on Saturday, critiquing Europe's refugee policies and complaining that his travel ban had suffered setbacks in court. "Sweden, who would believe this?"
It was unclear following the rally what could have occurred in Sweden to draw the president's attention, and the Swedish Embassy asked for clarity.
Trump took to his Twitter account Sunday evening to explain that he was referring to a Tucker Carlson segment that appeared on Fox News Friday. In the segment, Carlson interviewed right-wing filmmaker Ami Horowitz, who had recently made a documentary about Sweden's refugee policy. The segment did not contain breaking news.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
My statement as to what's happening in Sweden was in reference to a story that was broadcast on @FoxNews concerning immigrants & Sweden.
1:57 PM - 19 Feb 2017

A spokesperson for the Swedish Embassy said they didn't know if Trump's tweet served as the government's official response to their request for an explanation.
"We have asked State Department if President Trumps' tweet is their official answer to our question earlier today. We are still awaiting an answer on that," the spokesperson said.
A White House spokesperson had attempted to explain what Trump had been referring to prior to Trump's tweet.
"He was talking about rising crime and recent incidents in general — not referring to a specific incident," White House Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders told reporters.
But the country had spent the day baffled, because the president had said "last night" and nothing appeared to have happened.
"Sweden? Terror attack? What has he been smoking? Questions abound," Carl Bildt, a former Swedish prime minister, wrote on Twitter while he attended the Munich Security Conference on Sunday.
Sweden's Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Catarina Axelsson, told the Associated Press that the Swedish government did not know of any "terror-linked major incidents." Additionally, the Associated Press reported, Sweden's Security Police had not seen any threats or responded to any attacks.
Sweden's U.S. embassy also appeared to take a jab at the president on Twitter Sunday evening, retweeting Trump's earlier justification and saying: "We look forward to informing the US administration about Swedish immigration and integration policies."

="US Embassy To Sweden Tweeting"Embassy of Sweden US
@SwedeninUSA
We look forward to informing the US administration about Swedish immigration and integration policies.
https://
twitter.com/realdonaldtrum
p/status/833435244451753984 
3:45 PM - 19 Feb 2017

Trump's remarks were not the first time that somebody in his administration has referred to nonexistent terror attacks as they defended his executive order restricting travel for people from seven predominantly Muslim nations.
White House Counselor Kellyanne Conway invoked a "Bowling Green massacre," which never occurred. Conway has since said she made a mistake. White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer cited a nonexistent terror attack in Atlanta, then later claimed he meant the shooting at the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Florida — a city more than 400 miles south of Atlanta.
No terrorist attack in the U.S. has actually occurred at the hands of individuals from any of the seven countries whose people Trump's first executive order barred.

Sweden, meanwhile, has not experienced a terrorist act committed by a refugee or person of the Muslim faith since December 2010, when an Iraqi-Swedish national detonated a suicide bomb.
According to the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security's Crime and Safety Report on Sweden, released last May, overall crime rose 4 percent in 2015. The increase was attributed to the rise in computer fraud. A section of the report is dedicated to terrorism threats, and provides the nation a "Terrorism Rating" of "Medium."
In 2015, the country received between 160,000-190,000 asylum seekers, which is the most per capita in the European Union.

On Sunday, in response to Trump, a popular Swedish tabloid described the biggest, most violent news stories that it could find from Friday: A man set himself on fire in Stockholm, an 83-year-old singer suffered technical difficulties during rehearsal for a big music competition, a man died in the hospital after a work-related accident, an avalanche warning was issued in northern parts of the country and Stockholm police engaged in a high-speed pursuit of a drunk driver.
The tabloid also noted another incident: A photo of a moose bull attempting to get frisky with a wooden moose lawn ornament had gone viral.

WAT?

[Lord Revan]

You generally wouldn't want to ask this question about people with the ability to launch nukes but what the hell is Trump and his cronies smoking and how can I avoid it.

[Dragon Angel]

I mean he wants to check off every item on the fascist checklist so why not go all out Orwellian "We have always been at war with Eastasia. Terrorism is happening left and right and it's going to blow your brains out how much it's happening around us!! (Bad!)"

Time will tell how far down that rabbit hole goes.....

[Zaune]

Okay, now I'm really sure the GOP has been systematically infiltrated by Are We Cool Yet? (think The Yes Men as they'd appear in a Grant Morrison comic), and this is all a work of satirical performance art.

[mr friendly guy]

This is just alternative facts, like the Bowling Green massacre. Duh.

[Lord Revan]

I mean he wants to check off every item on the fascist checklist so why not go all out Orwellian "We have always been at war with Eastasia. Terrorism is happening left and right and it's going to blow your brains out how much it's happening around us!! (Bad!)"

Time will tell how far down that rabbit hole goes.....

Honestly more I hear about these things less I think it's due malice or some nerfeous plan to con the american people, more Trump and his minions being utterly incompetent.

Trump seems less like a guy trying to turn a (nominal) democracy into an outright dictatorship and more like the bumbling idiots you get once the current leader hasn't had to struggle for his position. Catch here being that USA isn't behind Trump 100% so he comes of as fool as rather the strong and competent leader as he wants to be seen and it's not like it's insanely hard to get news about Trump making an idiot of himself, in fact it might be harder to get news of Trump doing something right, doesn't sound like an all powerful godking now does he?

[Dragon Angel]

Honestly more I hear about these things less I think it's due malice or some nerfeous plan to con the american people, more Trump and his minions being utterly incompetent.

Trump seems less like a guy trying to turn a (nominal) democracy into an outright dictatorship and more like the bumbling idiots you get once the current leader hasn't had to struggle for his position. Catch here being that USA isn't behind Trump 100% so he comes of as fool as rather the strong and competent leader as he wants to be seen and it's not like it's insanely hard to get news about Trump making an idiot of himself, in fact it might be harder to get news of Trump doing something right, doesn't sound like an all powerful godking now does he?

Oh no, I doubt he has much if any form of sapience left in that braincase. It's just that he idolizes authoritarians, and with whatever that is left of an intelligent life form within him, he has enough power to break the world because of his sheer idiocy.

It's now a question if everyone else with power (and I guess the electorate, on the right or center) who is following him is enough of a lemming to let him continue unchecked and with party politics ... it very well seems like that might happen. Sure, they may bloviate about putting up some resistance, but if they don't actually do anything substantive then it'll just remain that.

[Dominus Atheos]

That's only the cartoonishly evil propaganda depictions of fascist leaders. In real life, Hitler and Mussolini were two of the most incompetent leaders of the 20th century. Hitler circa 1932-33 and Trump circa 2016-17 have disturbing similarities.

[Dartzap]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Admittedly that can apply to anything political these days. Also doesn't exclude being malicious and stupid of course

[The Romulan Republic]

What if the individual in question has a long, well-documented, and highly-publicized history of both deep malice and utter incompetence?

[Zaune]

"Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice".

[cosmicalstorm]

You guys are all pretending to be stupid. I warned this board a few years ago that Sweden would be used as a horror-example of what can go wrong with open borders.

Thats what he was talking about and I bet 100 % of his followers knew that right away, for all this pretended stupidity.

And you guys fell for it every time by the way: Now everyone will talk about Sweden and Swedens fuck up open border experiment.

[Crazedwraith]

You guys are all pretending to be stupid. I warned this board a few years ago that Sweden would be used as a horror-example of what can go wrong with open borders.

Except.... nothing much has gone wrong and Trump's lying his off ass about it?

[SpottedKitty]

The two best replies to the Sweden tweet I've seen so far are a parts list for an Ikea Mexican Wall, and a tweet saying only "We Will Rebuild!" with a picture of an Ikea allen key.

Although, to be honest, the "What's he been smoking?" one is pretty good.

[cosmicalstorm]

I live in Sweden so it pains me greatly to say that Sweden will be coming undone the next few years. The generous welfare state is ready to implode once the loan party ends.

Sweden has two roads into the future:
1. Painful fascist-ish crackdown on immigrants, deportations of tens of thousands. Creation of some kind of new inclusive cultural norm and social contract.
2. Swebanon, ethno states, large areas ruled by Sunni Islam extremists. All the social and secteristic problems of the Arab World will be here to be seen, impossible to ignore for the outside world.

[Thanas]

I live in Sweden so it pains me greatly to say that Sweden will be coming undone the next few years. The generous welfare state is ready to implode once the loan party ends.

Sweden has two roads into the future:
1. Painful fascist-ish crackdown on immigrants, deportations of tens of thousands. Creation of some kind of new inclusive cultural norm and social contract.
2. Swebanon, ethno states, large areas ruled by Sunni Islam extremists. All the social and secteristic problems of the Arab World will be here to be seen, impossible to ignore for the outside world.

None of that will happen. Dear god, you are a chicken little of the highest order.

[TheFeniX]

I live in Sweden so it pains me greatly to say that Sweden will be coming undone the next few years. The generous welfare state is ready to implode once the loan party ends.

Sweden has two roads into the future:
1. Painful fascist-ish crackdown on immigrants, deportations of tens of thousands. Creation of some kind of new inclusive cultural norm and social contract.
2. Swebanon, ethno states, large areas ruled by Sunni Islam extremists. All the social and secteristic problems of the Arab World will be here to be seen, impossible to ignore for the outside world.

I just. I have to quote a wiser man than I: "Wow, that is some high level paranoid thinking...like Hitler, or Willy Wonka."

It honestly warms my heart to see this kind of .... insanity of taking the smallest thing, even a flub or flat-out lie, and expanding that to justify your weapons-grade paranoia outside the GRATE state of Texas. I still believe Texas crazy somehow worked it's way into the Earth's core and has formed a new magnetic field. Where North points to Crazytown.

For me though, my highlight was hearing the argument (this was before anyone gave two shits about "ZOMG mooslims!") that Mexicans were about the start their purge because, and I fucking shit you not, "All the radio stations are turning into Tejano."