Death Squadron in the Milky Way(RAR)

[FaxModem1]

Just before the Battle of Hoth, Admiral Ozzel, commanding the Executor under the hand of Darth Vader, follows a lead of a probe droid and they end up in the Delta Quadrant circa 2371(just before the episode Caretaker), in the same system as the Caretaker and the Ocampa. The wormhole that sent them there collapses.

So, Darth Vader, Ozzel, and Piett are in Delta Quadrant. If left unimpeded, the Caretaker will bring Chakotay's ship the Val jean and Voyager into the same star system.

What happens?

[The Romulan Republic]

You have a premise for an excellent fan fic?

But aside from that... short of the super beings, and the crazier technobabble, they ought to be able to take anything they meet in a straight fight. However, if they can't set up the necessary logistical infrastructure to fuel and maintain their warships with what they brought/find, eventually they'll run out of fuel and/or break down and have to rely on local tech.

How long until Voyager shows up?

[FaxModem1]

We'll give Voyager about a week, with the Val Jean arriving in the next day.

[The Romulan Republic]

Give Death Squadron a week, and they'll likely have already encountered the Kazon, Occampa, the Caretaker, and maybe Neelix, as well as the Val Jean's crew.

I can see them trying to seize the Caretaker's Array to get back home (I don't suppose we know what its maximum range is?).

Kazon leaders and Neelix stand a fair chance of being Force-choked for annoying Vader.

The Val Jean would likely be boarded and the crew interrogated for information, unless the Imperials had already gotten everything they wanted from the Kazon first.

The Occampa are ignored, or enslaved.

A couple interesting points:

First off, I doubt that they can carve out much of an Empire. Their overwhelming military superiority, in the absence of a logistical chain, likely lasts just as long as their fuel/spare parts do. Though perhaps Vader could set himself up as God Emperor of some local power or something. The problem their is that Vader is not really politically savvy like Palpatine is. Not so much because he doesn't understand politics, I think, as because he has no patience for pandering to various factions, or the subtlety to carefully play them against each other while hiding his true intent like Palpatine did. He'd likely have to rule through brute force/terror (and maybe Force mind control) alone. Although in a militaristic/warrior society he might be able to establish a cult of personality based on his personal fighting prowess.

Secondly... could Fed. tech. potentially heal Vader? Its abilities are somewhat inconsistently portrayed, but in some respects it seems that medical tech. is a field where the Feds. are actually ahead of the Galactic Empire. The Empire doesn't have casual species changes and holographic organs (I'd speculate its because Bacta is so good for most things that they've become overly reliant on using it as a crutch).

[PREDATOR490]

Kazon - Are going to be turned into Vader's bitch

Occampa - They are functionally useless except as potential leverage against the Caretaker

Voyager - Is unlikely to arrive, the Imperials are going to be impeding with the Caretaker enough that it is implausible he would still be able to set that series of events in motion.

Vader has enough military firepower over the Kazon that he can hold the Caretaker array and systematically tear it apart. Only issue is if the dying Caretaker super powers are better than Vader or it triggers the self destruct. If Vader takes the station, they potentially have the means to catapult themselves all over the galaxy and / or get intel on the various ships that have been abducted and where from.

Turning the Caretaker array into a personal base that can teleport them across the galaxy is strategically useful but being able to bring random alien ships to them might be more interesting for intelligence gathering.

Going by the Legends: An SSD has consumables for 6 years
One would expect such a ship to have a proportional amount of parts to maintain the ship for a part of that


Worst case scenario, the Caretaker throws the Executor away and Vader lives an interesting life as Emperor of wherever he chooses to call home.

[The Romulan Republic]

Taking the Array may be the best bet to carve out a lasting Empire, once the Imperial tech. starts breaking down. If he can figure out how to keep the Array running, well, its lasted a long time, and it gives strategic mobility that even hyperdrive can't match. And while its rather hard on the ships going through it... well, and ISD, much less an SSD, is far more durable than Voyager.

Vader may also prefer conquest in the new galaxy to going straight home. This is a extraordinary chance for him to get out from under Palpatine's control and be his own man, and forge his own Empire. He wouldn't be much of a Sith if he passed it up.

Using the Occampa as leverage on the Caretaker is another possibility that did not occur to me.

The Earth will likely also be of interest to the Imperials, since humanity's home world is unknown in their universe (going off Legends, anyway- I don't know if its been discussed in the new canon yet).

[Rogue 9]

You essentially have the setup for StarCrossed here; just go read that.

[FedRebel]

Just before the Battle of Hoth, Admiral Ozzel, commanding the Executor under the hand of Darth Vader, follows a lead of a probe droid and they end up in the Delta Quadrant circa 2371(just before the episode Caretaker), in the same system as the Caretaker and the Ocampa. The wormhole that sent them there collapses.

So, Darth Vader, Ozzel, and Piett are in Delta Quadrant. If left unimpeded, the Caretaker will bring Chakotay's ship the Val jean and Voyager into the same star system.

What happens?

Occampa is of little value. They may take issue with the Array, just to find out 'What the Hell', besides that they'd likely jump to another system after a new batch of probes chart a safe route someplace more appealing.

Presuming the latter, that they just jump away, No doubt they keep something to monitor the Occampa system just in case (because you know, Alien space station, etc.) They detect the space battle when Voyager and Val Jean are engaging the Kazon over the array and send a scouting element to investigate.

Voyager being surprisingly human and fighting savages, motivates Lord Vader to render assistance.

The array secure, it's reasoned that return via that medium would be too hazardous (that first pan-galactic bitch slap did do gnarly things to Voyager.) But Death Squadron is in a position to help, With spatial coordinates to Sector 001 probe droids are able to chart a Hyperspace lane, Death Squadron returns to the AQ with Voyager in tow.

Let's presume that with the aid of Federation scientific curiosity that they are able to determine what sent Death Squadron to this galaxy and repeat it artificially (let's say a freak trans-spatial eddie caused a 'hiccup' in their hyperdrive motivators) with a Federation style deflector Death Squadron can jump back home and report in.

During the Interim between TESB-ROTJ the Empire becomes a political element in the Federation, they back Leyton's coup and secure his regime. The Empire adopts a major stake in kyb..."dilithium" mining in the MW carting of some large crystals.

The Imperial presence and influence makes the Federation relatively unassailable to the Founders, however they focus more on using that relationship to forge division in other AQ political relations. The Klingons go more assertively on a war footing, The Empire renders aid to it's 'ally' the Federation and curbstomps the Klingons, BDZing Qo'nos and seizing resource rich systems (ie. Rura Penthe) for themselves.

The Romulans are piss terrified into siding with the Dominion, the subsequent balkanization of the Klingon state that The Empire has no interest in enables the Dominion to feed Cardassian fears and expedite their membership.

So the Empire has a sizable stake in the MW, a Grand Moff is handpicked by Palpatine/Vader is assigned to oversee the region (let's say the start of ROTJ was Vader returning from an intergalactic 'business' trip.) Following Jakku not 'all' of those missing Imperial assets went into Snoke's clutches, a fair amount went to the new galaxy.

The Borg incursion is swatted with Imperial aid as this MW remnant asserts a more overt role, Leyton is effective acting as a Moff under the Imperial Grand Moff. The Dominion war breaks out and the Imperial forces prove instrumental towards holding the line, as Starfleet takes loses it becomes more tightly integrated into the Imperial Navy. The war would not be a clean win. Romulan and Cardassian space's are under Imperial "care" and the Gamma Quadrant is a mess as the Jem'Hadar wage Jihad. Imperial bioweapons research is able to more thoroughly weaponize the Founder virus and claim the changeling race.

Once the Dominion War is finally concluded the Grand Moff appoints himself "Galactic Imperator", The MW is partitioned into "Oversector Alpha", "Oversector Beta", and Oversector Gamma". The Galactic Empire is firmly asserted in this new galaxy. For sake of historical curiosity it is colloquially referenced as The "Federation-Empire" to distinguish itself from the GFFA entity, by time traveling historians, etc.

Eventually the Empire would want to deal with the Borg and establish "Oversector Delta", however 8472/Undine backstory is to track..no doubt "fun times" for all.

[The Romulan Republic]

Just before the Battle of Hoth, Admiral Ozzel, commanding the Executor under the hand of Darth Vader, follows a lead of a probe droid and they end up in the Delta Quadrant circa 2371(just before the episode Caretaker), in the same system as the Caretaker and the Ocampa. The wormhole that sent them there collapses.

So, Darth Vader, Ozzel, and Piett are in Delta Quadrant. If left unimpeded, the Caretaker will bring Chakotay's ship the Val jean and Voyager into the same star system.

What happens?

Occampa is of little value.

Except for slaver labour and as a bargaining chip, as discussed above.

Plus, who knows, maybe it has something on it that can be mined, something Voyager and the Caretaker didn't care about. Their has to be some reason that they Kazon set up on that barren rock.

They may take issue with the Array, just to find out 'What the Hell', besides that they'd likely jump to another system after a new batch of probes chart a safe route someplace more appealing.

The Array is a strategic asset that can move vessels far faster than even hyperdrive, and is their only obvious potential way home, should they choose to go home.

They will have a lot more than mild curiosity for it.

Presuming the latter, that they just jump away, No doubt they keep something to monitor the Occampa system just in case (because you know, Alien space station, etc.) They detect the space battle when Voyager and Val Jean are engaging the Kazon over the array and send a scouting element to investigate.

Except they've potentially bolded the Val Jean long before this, and their are other reasons why, due to the "butterfly effect", things might not play out the same in regard to the battle with the Kazon starting.

And again, they will treat the Array as much more significant than you seem to think, I suspect.

Does Vader seem like the kind to treat a one-of-a-kind strategic asset as a mere curiosity? Especially when he's cut off from his usual support?

Voyager being surprisingly human and fighting savages, motivates Lord Vader to render assistance.

I never saw Vader as particularly buying into Imperial racism (Tuskens aside, anyway, due to personal trauma). And in any case, Voyager has a multi-species crew, with values very different from the Empire's.

Vader cares about weather you are useful. So... is Voyager useful to him?

The array secure, it's reasoned that return via that medium would be too hazardous (that first pan-galactic bitch slap did do gnarly things to Voyager.) But Death Squadron is in a position to help, With spatial coordinates to Sector 001 probe droids are able to chart a Hyperspace lane, Death Squadron returns to the AQ with Voyager in tow.

Voyager seemed willing to try using it again, and Imperial engineers might have some new insights.

In any case... why would the Imperials be so obliging to what to them is a weak, stranded ship from an unknown faction following a very different ideology? Just out of the goodness of their hearts? When they're stranded far from home with limited forces and supplies in an unknown galaxy?

And don't think the Imperial racism will get them to help Voyager because a) Vader doesn't seem to care much about human supremacy, and b), Voyager has a multi-species crew from a multi-species Federation.

They'll help Voyager if it helps them.

Though like I said, the possibility of the Federation being able to heal Vader comes to mind.

Let's presume that with the aid of Federation scientific curiosity that they are able to determine what sent Death Squadron to this galaxy and repeat it artificially (let's say a freak trans-spatial eddie caused a 'hiccup' in their hyperdrive motivators) with a Federation style deflector Death Squadron can jump back home and report in.

That's a hell of an assumption to justify devolving this scenario to another generic "Empire takes over the Federation" fic.

Let's also keep in mind, again, that Vader might not want to go home- not until he's built up his own power base at least. He's finally out from under Palpatine's control now, and I think that when push comes to shove, most of the Death Squadron and the 501st. will be loyal to him.

During the Interim between TESB-ROTJ the Empire becomes a political element in the Federation, they back Leyton's coup and secure his regime. The Empire adopts a major stake in kyb..."dilithium" mining in the MW carting of some large crystals.

And predictably, this descends into fascism fan wank, where the Federation becomes good little Imperials (ignore every canon example of Starfleet officers ready to mutiny to uphold Federation principles).

The Imperial presence and influence makes the Federation relatively unassailable to the Founders, however they focus more on using that relationship to forge division in other AQ political relations. The Klingons go more assertively on a war footing, The Empire renders aid to it's 'ally' the Federation and curbstomps the Klingons, BDZing Qo'nos and seizing resource rich systems (ie. Rura Penthe) for themselves.

This is the kind of complex political game Palpatine might play.

I do not see Vader doing it.

The Romulans are piss terrified into siding with the Dominion, the subsequent balkanization of the Klingon state that The Empire has no interest in enables the Dominion to feed Cardassian fears and expedite their membership.

Why would the Empire not be interested in Klingon territory?

So the Empire has a sizable stake in the MW, a Grand Moff is handpicked by Palpatine/Vader is assigned to oversee the region (let's say the start of ROTJ was Vader returning from an intergalactic 'business' trip.) Following Jakku not 'all' of those missing Imperial assets went into Snoke's clutches, a fair amount went to the new galaxy.

Now there's an interesting thought reg. Snoke.

The Borg incursion is swatted with Imperial aid as this MW remnant asserts a more overt role, Leyton is effective acting as a Moff under the Imperial Grand Moff. The Dominion war breaks out and the Imperial forces prove instrumental towards holding the line, as Starfleet takes loses it becomes more tightly integrated into the Imperial Navy. The war would not be a clean win. Romulan and Cardassian space's are under Imperial "care" and the Gamma Quadrant is a mess as the Jem'Hadar wage Jihad. Imperial bioweapons research is able to more thoroughly weaponize the Founder virus and claim the changeling race.

Why would the Empire give a shit about Leyton, besides internet fanboys idolizing him for making HARD CHOICES rather than recognizing him as a prick who betrayed his oaths and destabilized and undermined his people and government for the sake of an ill-conceived power grab that likely would have started a full-blown civil war if it hadn't been nipped in the bud?

He might be a useful tool in certain scenarios (say, to destabilize the Federation), but I think that if anything, Vader would have contempt for him as an incompetent schemer with an overinflated sense of his own importance. Vader has an answer to men like that- the Force choke.

Also, any conventional war with the Dominion would be a cakewalk for anything like the full might of the Empire unless it deliberately held back its full strength (say, to bleed its allies and make them more vulnerable to betrayal). Although the longevity of such a remnant is doubtful- it will have the firepower, but it will not have the established infrastructure of its home galaxy, and I'm not sure how quickly that could be set up to supplant the local tech. base. SSDs do not grow on trees.

Lastly, I would assume that the Grand Moff of the new Galaxy (and realistically, an entire galaxy would have more than one, perhaps, rather than concentrating so much power in the hands of one man not the Emperor) would likely declare themselves Emperor once Palpatine fell.

Once the Dominion War is finally concluded the Grand Moff appoints himself "Galactic Imperator", The MW is partitioned into "Oversector Alpha", "Oversector Beta", and Oversector Gamma". The Galactic Empire is firmly asserted in this new galaxy. For sake of historical curiosity it is colloquially referenced as The "Federation-Empire" to distinguish itself from the GFFA entity, by time traveling historians, etc.

Presuming things get that far. For reasons elaborated on above, I find the whole premise highly dubious.

Eventually the Empire would want to deal with the Borg and establish "Oversector Delta", however 8472/Undine backstory is to track..no doubt "fun times" for all.

Eh, Star Trek Online isn't canon, but if that goes through, then their's the Iconian shit to deal with too.

[The Romulan Republic]

FaxModem1: would you mind if I borrowed this premise for a fanfic? I can see some interesting directions I could take it, but figured I should ask since its your thread. I would, naturally, credit you for story concept.

[FaxModem1]

FaxModem1: would you mind if I borrowed this premise for a fanfic? I can see some interesting directions I could take it, but figured I should ask since its your thread. I would, naturally, credit you for story concept.

Feel free.

[Solauren]

Assuming the array can reach other Galaxies (the Caretaker's species was extra-galactic after all, so it might be possible).....
Assuming the Array can reach the GFFA.....

Vader just took over the Star Wars Galaxy.

All he has to do is wait for the Emperor to go off planet, and time things right, and he can use the Array to sweep up Palpatine's shuttle or ship, and drop it off somewhere unpleasant, like the middle of Intergalactic space, or just outside the event horizon of a black hole.

And if he can do that, setting up infrastructure support should be easy.

[The Romulan Republic]

Thanks, FaxModem1.

Solauren, what's the source for the Caretaker being extra-galactic? Was it in the episode?

As to Vader taking over the galaxy, its a very intriguing scenario. I wonder if he'd be a better Emperor than Palpatine. I don't think he has Palpatine's political skill, but he has a little bit of honour and decency still (though the struggle to maintain power might destroy that), and he has a lot of self-control for a Sith. He seems saner, and less evil for the sake of evil, than Palpatine.

[FaxModem1]

CARETAKER: We're explorers from another galaxy. We had no idea that our technology would be so destructive to their atmosphere. Two of us were chosen to stay behind and care for them.
JANEWAY: There's another like you here?
CARETAKER: Not anymore. No, no. She went off to look for more interesting places.

So we know that both Caretaker entities are from a different galaxy. I have no idea if their device can pluck someone from another galaxy or not.

[The Romulan Republic]

Well, I'm going to assume not for my fic, because its more interesting.

But for debate purposes... no way to know, honestly. Since their's no evidence that it can, probably best to presume that it cannot.

[The Romulan Republic]

Oh, another possible use for Occampa for Vader:

Occampans have the potential to be high-level psychics. Kess may be an outlier, but the potential is their, if their culture wasn't suppressing it.

Its not the Force, but if Vader wanted to train up a squad of psychic agents to replace his inquisitors/serve as his version of the Emperor's Hands, its not a bad place to start.

[Sidewinder]

'Heir to the Empire' and 'The Force Unleashed II' stated it's EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to clone a Jedi or other Force user (read: Sith Lord)- with technology available to the Empire, anyways. Is 'Star Trek' technology- e.g., what the Dominion uses to mass produce Jem'Hadar warriors- able to circumvent this? If so, will Vader continue pursuing Luke- which requires him to find a way back to Imperial space? Or will he attempt to build his own empire in the 'Star Trek' universe, with a clone of himself as heir to the "Vader dynasty"?

[FaxModem1]

'Heir to the Empire' and 'The Force Unleashed II' stated it's EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to clone a Jedi or other Force user (read: Sith Lord)- with technology available to the Empire, anyways. Is 'Star Trek' technology- e.g., what the Dominion uses to mass produce Jem'Hadar warriors- able to circumvent this? If so, will Vader continue pursuing Luke- which requires him to find a way back to Imperial space? Or will he attempt to build his own empire in the 'Star Trek' universe, with a clone of himself as heir to the "Vader dynasty"?

Unfortunately for Vader, even if he does find a way to go right back to the Star Wars universe, able to go 'far far away', short of getting a favor from Q, he's still going to be in our future, not 'a long time ago'.

[Solauren]

If Star Trek cloning tech has no problem handling Force Sensitivity, he doesn't need Luke anymore.

He can clone himself, and then figure out the Force-Essence transfer trick, and move into a new body.

And that's IF Star Trek medical tech can't rebuild him to how he was prior to Mustafar.

[The Romulan Republic]

'Heir to the Empire' and 'The Force Unleashed II' stated it's EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to clone a Jedi or other Force user (read: Sith Lord)- with technology available to the Empire, anyways. Is 'Star Trek' technology- e.g., what the Dominion uses to mass produce Jem'Hadar warriors- able to circumvent this? If so, will Vader continue pursuing Luke- which requires him to find a way back to Imperial space? Or will he attempt to build his own empire in the 'Star Trek' universe, with a clone of himself as heir to the "Vader dynasty"?

Unfortunately for Vader, even if he does find a way to go right back to the Star Wars universe, able to go 'far far away', short of getting a favor from Q, he's still going to be in our future, not 'a long time ago'.

This, of course, presumes that the Star Wars galaxy is in our universe's past (i.e. taking the opening text at face value, rather than as symbolic or in-universe writing). Personally I'm inclined to think that its easier to just treat them as alternative universes in a crossover.

As to the cloning thing... its an option, but I don't know if Vader could pull off the transfer thing.

I also don't know if he would. Vader has a great deal of self-loathing and guilt, I'd think, and it was never his own immortality he sought. I also can't see him ever losing interest entirely in Luke, because he's always been obsessed with family, and Luke is (so far as he knows) his last link to Padme.

Vader isn't Palpatine, the same set of motivations doesn't drive him, and he won't necessarily employ the same schemes. He might, but its not a given. Which is part of what makes this more interesting than just another typical "Empire vs. Federation" scenario.

[The Romulan Republic]

Actually, while Palpatine is the more formidable villain, Vader is much the more interesting character.

[texanmarauder]

This, of course, presumes that the Star Wars galaxy is in our universe's past (i.e. taking the opening text at face value, rather than as symbolic or in-universe writing). Personally I'm inclined to think that its easier to just treat them as alternative universes in a crossover.


IIRC the laws of physics for the GFFA tend to work quite differently from the milky way galaxy. per canon, a lightsaber blade is supposed to be composed of pure high energy plasma. that plasma would fry the person holding the lightsaber in the milky way galaxy. plus, according to canon, hypermatter is created only under specific circumstances. hypermatter is formed when solar radiation reaches the core of a planet or something. the legend version is some kind of tachyonic matter found in hyperspace. either way, those ships would run out of hypermatter within a week. plus, I don't think that voyager should be written off so easily. I have never subscribed to the "biggaton" theories for turbolasers. they just don't pan out on screen. any source that says otherwise was never canon for the films and definitely isn't canon now after the Disney purge. I think it would be a much tougher battle for death squadron than anybody gives voyager credit for.

[The Romulan Republic]

I mostly agree with that, myself. My tendency in crossovers is to treat them as alternate/parallel universes, unless I have a good reason not to.

[Esquire]

I note, for the [many]-eth time, that the figures cited in the AOTC ICS were derived from on-screen evidence; most particularly, as I recall, from scaling from the Death Star and from the ESB asteroid vaporization scene. Moreover, said calculations were conducted by a man much better qualified to perform such than I am, and I'm not going to dispute (or credit others' disputation of) them without a lot more effort than goes into 'it doesn't seem plausible,' paragraph edition

Texanmarauder: pics or it didn't happen, basically. Provide a genuine argument, please, with citations and a full chain of reasoning; your assertions do not overcome rigorous calculation derived from film evidence. The 'biggatons' stay unless you can prove they oughtn't.

[Q99]

Vader cares about weather you are useful. So... is Voyager useful to him?

Heck no, on the grounds that the Empire is pretty obviously evil and Imperialistic. They might start negotiations on the off chance things aren't as they appear and because they're obviously all far from home/may be ok with a 'temporary alliance so we can use the array to all get to our homes,' (because Vader in SW is better than him forging an empire in the Delta Quadrant), but Janeway would blow up their ship before they let him use it.


If Vader want good Trek tech, Alpha Quadrant level stuff, he's going to have to get it elsewhere. Voyager has turned down deals much sweeter than this.

And suffice to say, while the Federation's medical technology could conceivably do the job, the Kazon or any other local powers? Pff, not a chance. They'll have to do a fair amount of scouting before they reach anyone who even has anything that looks interesting, aside from the Array itself of course.

In any case... why would the Imperials be so obliging to what to them is a weak, stranded ship from an unknown faction following a very different ideology? Just out of the goodness of their hearts? When they're stranded far from home with limited forces and supplies in an unknown galaxy?

And don't think the Imperial racism will get them to help Voyager because a) Vader doesn't seem to care much about human supremacy, and b), Voyager has a multi-species crew from a multi-species Federation.

They'll help Voyager if it helps them.

Pretty much this- it's a mutual 'five minutes talking has convinced us they're weak and pathetic democracy lovers/brutal and oppressive tyrants.' They can maybe swing a temporary alliance, but at arms length and very limited, Voyager is not going to throw it's science into helping the Imperials any way it can (fix Vader? Not on the menu), and the Imperials are not going to go, "let's help these other poor lost humans who are weaker and more vulnerable than us."

Any 'they start helping each other heavily and the Imperials join with the Federation,' flies in the face of both side's psychologies. Vader either ignores them or shows up as a conqueror.