The myth of "free press" in Russia.

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fgalkin
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Post by fgalkin »

Ted wrote:
fgalkin wrote:
Ted wrote:Not many countries HAVE free press.

The US doesn't, Canada doesn't, the rest of the West doesn't.

In the US, the major press companies all fund the Presidential candidates, and these companies control most of the press there.

The same in Canada. There is about two or three companies who control the press in Canada, all have ties to the Government, either through funding campaigns, or previous stock holders now in government.
The press in the US and Canada is not being censored by the government. Media outlelts that are in opposition to the government are not being shut down or taken over. Local reporters don't get beaten, killed, or imprisoned for exposing the corrupt regimes of the local governors. There is a great difference between Russian press and American press.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
Maybe not like that, but American press is influenced by the US Government, in that the owners can be and are great friends of the regime.
The fact that they are friends of the government does not mean that there is no free speech.
For an example of what freedom of the press means, see the New York Times v. the US Supreme court case, or the US v. the Progressive. When the government tries to censor information, yet fails, this is called "freedom of the press". When the media moguls are friends with the government and are willingly reporting information in a way that benefits the government, it does not mean that the First Amendment is violated.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
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aerius
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Post by aerius »

Ted wrote:Maybe not like that, but American press is influenced by the US Government, in that the owners can be and are great friends of the regime.
Influenced, probably, biased, definitely, but they are free. They can report whatever they want, anti-war protests, anti-war commentary, anti-goverment stuff, anti-Bush rants, and they do, and no one is getting dragged away at night to be shot, no stations are getting taken off the air. Don't confuse bias with freedom.
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Post by fgalkin »

Here's some intersting statistics.

Argumenty i Fakty, the leading independant newspaper has a circulation of almost 10 million, reaching 16% of Russia's population aged 10 and above.
http://eng.comcon-2.com/default.asp?artID=740#eopi

ORT, RTR, and NTV, the major TV networks reach around 90% of Russian household. http://www.internews.ru/report/tv/tv51.html

Now, consider the fact that virtually no one outside of the big cities has internet access, and you will understand why it is such a big deal that all national networks are owned by the government.


Also, on the bizzarre side, it turns out that subliminal messages were quite common on Russian TV. :shock: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/80802_sn_russiatv.html

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
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K. A. Pital
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Post by K. A. Pital »

fgalkin
That the most of the media is tied more or less to the government doesn't mean there is no independent media. Listen to your words:
The press in the US and Canada is not being censored by the government. Media outlelts that are in opposition to the government are not being shut down or taken over. Local reporters don't get beaten, killed, or imprisoned for exposing the corrupt regimes of the local governors. There is a great difference between Russian press and American press.
WTF? What do you mean? That Russia government imprisons, beats, kills reporters? Oh that is strange.
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Post by fgalkin »

No, well how about this:

http://www.epnworld-reporter.com/news/a ... orter.html
Pasko's conviction is based on the claim that he intended to pass his notes from the meeting to Japanese colleagues. The meeting took place in 1997 and is said to have been about Russian waste dumping in the Sea of Japan
http://scripts.online.ru/misc/newsreg/00/02/15_815.htm
Translation:
Anatoliy Koblov was severely beaten last Saturday, 30 meters from his house. The motive of the attack is unknown, however, the reporter's colleagues, the facts point to the fact that the beating of Koblov is due to his proffessional activities, particularly during the gubernatorial and deputy elections that had taken place last december. According to Koblov, the two perpetrators had been waiting for him in front of his house, and started beating him only after they had verified his identity...
from Orenburg

http://www.lenta.ru/russia/2000/12/18/lurie/Attack on Oleg Lurie. He claims it was due to his publication of some materials. From Ryasan

http://www.koenig.ru/win/digitalKenig/n ... 203/1.html
Another journalist beaten, this time in Kaliningrad.
"The beating of the journalist Mikhail Kucheryavenko is probably related to his former proffessional activities" is the opinion of Valeri Ustugov, the chairman of the Kaliningrad Oblast' Duma.
http://www.storona-press.ru/full.php3?id=7801From Vladikavkaz.

And so on, and so forth...

Stas, you're not goint to win this one.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
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K. A. Pital
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Post by K. A. Pital »

fgalkin
Anatoliy Koblov was severely beaten last Saturday, 30 meters from his house.
Does that mean the gov. beat him?
He claims it was due to his publication of some materials.
Claims? F****** lying reporters. They always draw attention by saying they are opressed or something like that and build huge thought-out accusations. I don't belive neither them nor the government completely.
In fact, I belive that reporters and channels owned by the oligarchs find and use thought-out crap about the government and lie about it all. And convicting a traitor of the Rodina is not a crime.
Why you accuse the government of doing this? Some criminals can do it as well. In fact, we lots of criminals over Russia, so no wonder people get beaten and killed. This time you can't hand it on the govnmt.
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Post by Edi »

Congratulations on being an utterly stupid, fucking moron, Stas. Wait, I'm taking that back. It'd be an insult to utterly stupid, fucking morons to call you that. It'd actually imply that you had managed to get up to their level. It has been a long while since I've seen so much stupid concentrated so thoroughly in one post. Buy a fucking clue!

On second thought, no. Please, do us all a favor, find a gun and put yourself out of our misery, or climb to the top floor of some very high building and close the window after exiting, or get hit by a truck or something. Or just disappear, or simply shut up. Any one of those is fine.

You're a fucking embarrassment to all decent Russians like fgalkin and some others I know, people who actually think for themselves instead of parroting Kremlin propaganda, which I'm sure fgalkin will point out to you as well, like he already has, several times. Next time, address the damned point instead of just dodging the question. You've gotten your ass handed to you, along with your head, so suck it up. Shit happens. No wonder people have advocated the VI title for you, you certainly deserve it!

Here's one last hint, trying to pass off your opinion as fact, especially in the presence of direct evidence to the contrary, just makes you look even more stupid, and not only did you try that, you emphasized the attempt. Pathetic!

******

fgalkin, I hope you didn't mind me giving the moron a piece of my mind before you could get him, but he definitely needed it. Stas Bush is a typical example of the kind of morons who give your countrymen a seriously bad rep here, just as there are Finnish idiots who give us a bad name in Russia, especially in Viborg and St. Petersburg, those being the closest places.

Edi
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K. A. Pital
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Post by K. A. Pital »

Edi
Woooow... A whole lot of insults, not even one point made.
:lol:
I wonder if any Kremlin propaganda exists, fool, because I haven't seen any. Maybe you should just cry like fgalkin that press is so opressed in Russia.
Any IDIOT can find free media in Russia, if he wants to. Russia, Germany, Al-Jazeera or whosoever is LOT better than the CNN liars.

And, BTW, if some of you have love for oligarchs, I can't really discuss anything with you.
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Post by fgalkin »

Stas Bush wrote:fgalkin
Anatoliy Koblov was severely beaten last Saturday, 30 meters from his house.
Does that mean the gov. beat him?
He claims it was due to his publication of some materials.
Claims? F****** lying reporters. They always draw attention by saying they are opressed or something like that and build huge thought-out accusations. I don't belive neither them nor the government completely.
In fact, I belive that reporters and channels owned by the oligarchs find and use thought-out crap about the government and lie about it all. And convicting a traitor of the Rodina is not a crime.
Why you accuse the government of doing this? Some criminals can do it as well. In fact, we lots of criminals over Russia, so no wonder people get beaten and killed. This time you can't hand it on the govnmt.
Just when I was hoping that you have changed. :roll:

1) I've said before, there is free press in Russia. I've even listed the independant publications. If you choose to conviniently ignore that, and the statistics that show that they don't reach nearly as much people as to make a difference, then I this debate is pointless. Go on trolling until you get banned, fucktard. :roll:

2)You did read the article, didn't you? You say that the reporter lied. You probably didn't notice that the reporter was form a local newspaper, INDEPENDANT, AND NOT OWNED BY OLIGARCHS.(there's your independant media). What did he do? Expose the fraudulent elections of the LOCAL governor. it has nothing to do with Moscow.

3)
Why you accuse the government of doing this? Some criminals can do it as well. In fact, we lots of criminals over Russia, so no wonder people get beaten and killed.
- Open your fucking eyes. Two guys were waiting for him, outside his house. They beat him up, ONLY AFTER VERIFYING HIS IDENTITY. In addition, nothing of his stuff was taken. Does that sound like an ordinary criminal to you? :roll:

4)You totally chose to ignore the story of :roll:

5)
you wrote:Russia, Germany, Al-Jazeera or whosoever is LOT better than the CNN liars.
Suure. :roll: Care to provide any evindece for that or did you pull that out of your fucking ass, just like the rest of your bullshit.

6)
I belive that reporters and channels owned by the oligarchs find and use thought-out crap about the government and lie about it all. And convicting a traitor of the Rodina is not a crime.
:shock: Are you a clone of Darkstar?!
(To myself: ok, calm down)
*takes a deep breath*
Yes, Gusinskiy was a greedy bastad, and Berezovskiy wanted to be a shadow emperor of Russia. Yes, they gambled for power and lost. But how IN THE FRELLIN WORLD ARE THEY TRAITORS OF THE RODINA?! :shock: I suggest you look up the difinition of "treason" before you start spouting your bullshit. Oh, wait, "evidence" does not mean anything to you, you asshat. :roll:
And, BTW, if some of you have love for oligarchs, I can't really discuss anything with you
Every word of that is Kremlin propaganda. When the oligarchs were defeated, the media started a defamation campaign, where they were accused of all sorts of crimes, plus being Jews, etc. It seemed that it worked on poor Stas here. :roll:

****
fgalkin , I hope you didn't mind me giving the moron a piece of my mind before you could get him, but he definitely needed it. Stas Bush is a typical example of the kind of morons who give your countrymen a seriously bad rep here, just as there are Finnish idiots who give us a bad name in Russia, especially in Viborg and St. Petersburg, those being the closest places.

Edi
Feel free to flame that moron anytime. :evil:

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
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K. A. Pital
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Post by K. A. Pital »

fgalkin
OK. I agree with you. We are bad. But I actually never looked at the media campaign seriously and I never noticed any Kremlin propaganda.
Yes, Gusinskiy was a greedy bastad, and Berezovskiy wanted to be a shadow emperor of Russia. Yes, they gambled for power and lost. But how IN THE FRELLIN WORLD ARE THEY TRAITORS OF THE RODINA?!
They are not, I was speaking about this guy who passed on the notes.
Care to provide any evindece for that or did you pull that out of your fucking ass, just like the rest of your bullshit.
Because the CNN says BS and then we find out. Many times. Since the war has begun.
"We took Um Quasr"
"We are 250 km into Iraq"
and other idiotic news on the first day.
"Saddam is dead" and other idiotic things on the second day.
And so on. See? Al-Jazeera at least doesn't give BS like that. Neither it gives the opposite BS like "Americans are performing genocide" or something like that. There is a difference between unbiased video footages and BS comments on them, did you know?
I've said before, there is free press in Russia. I've even listed the independant publications.
OK. So what? There is. That's enough for the case. I don't really bother with media, but if I'll need an independent source I'll better find something more far from the Iraq conflict than Americans, British and Iraqis.
Just when I was hoping that you have changed.
I have :D Actually, I just wanted to note that I've seen no Kremlin propaganda at all, although you seem sure that it exists? :shock:
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