Mass Effect:Andromeda [SPOILERS]

[bilateralrope]

In response to Civil War Man, on the issue of the AI used in Andromeda, Spoiler

it was illegal. The protagonist's father Alec Ryder built it illegally in an attempt to save his dying wife before reusing it on the Andromeda project. It is actually even worse than a more traditional AI like EDI, as it links with the human brain directly. Alec believes this will cure the geth problem, as the human input will cause it to care more about humanity and not rebel. We'll see how it turns out.

In the process of making it he made deals with people like the Shadow Broker(before Liara took the role, when it was the yagh who also made deals with the Collectors) in order to get what he needed.

What, exactly, does he think the "Geth problem" is ?

The Geth treated organics better than any of the other AIs did. They only rebelled against their creators after their creators tried to exterminate them and were willing to keep to their own space. Compare that to Edi, who turned on her creators before they tried to destroy her. Though killing Cerberus personal after they lost control is a common feature of Cerberus projects.

[Anacronian]

The detail os the morning war is not known to the public at large - most people just think of the Geth as an AI that fought a war of elimination against the Quarians, They are AI and therefore dangerous.

Also, the Geth got publicly blamed for the attack on the Citadel at the end of ME1 ..so think of them as the convenient AI buggy man.

[Civil War Man]

What, exactly, does he think the "Geth problem" is ?

The Geth treated organics better than any of the other AIs did. They only rebelled against their creators after their creators tried to exterminate them and were willing to keep to their own space. Compare that to Edi, who turned on her creators before they tried to destroy her. Though killing Cerberus personal after they lost control is a common feature of Cerberus projects.

The "Geth problem" is almost undoubtedly referring to the Geth that sided with Sovereign in ME1. It's the same problem that Project Overlord tried to solve.

It was not exactly widespread knowledge that the Reaper-aligned Geth were a splinter group. By the end of ME2, the only people who would know that are the Geth themselves, the crew of the SR2, the Illusive Man, the Alliance brass once Shepard surrendered to them, and probably the Council once the Alliance finished debriefing Shepard and passed that intel on.

And if there are any signs of the new species deviating from the planned scenario of growth along planned lines, the Reapers jump in and crush the civilization that is thus deviating from the plan. That's what determined the timing of the Reaper attack on the Protheans, as far as I can tell- the point at which they started building their own mass relays. Implicitly, that means they were reaching a level of technology that would enable them to present a threat.

It's too bad that the writers decided not to go with the original plan where the Reapers were created to try to figure out a way to stop Dark Energy from making the galaxy uninhabitable. In that case, the Reapers weren't wiping out civilizations that could pose a threat, but harvesting civilizations that made some breakthrough about how Dark Energy works so they could add that new knowledge to their collective conscious. In that case, leaving technology like the Mass Drivers and the Citadel was done to a) bring new space faring species up to a certain baseline to speed up the cycles, and b) make sure the new species become reliant on technology that utilizes Dark Energy, so they are more likely to focus their scientific research on Dark Energy.

From what I hear, they ended up dropping that because otherwise they'd pretty much have to have a "Shepard sides with the Reapers" path in ME3.

[bilateralrope]

The detail os the morning war is not known to the public at large - most people just think of the Geth as an AI that fought a war of elimination against the Quarians, They are AI and therefore dangerous.

That is a bid odd, considering that Tali didn't have any hesitation telling us how it started in ME1. I'd expect anyone trying to 'solve' the Geth to at least ask some Quarrians about what went wrong.

Linking the AI with a human mind sounds like it makes it more likely that, should the AI have to choose between genocide and extinction, it's not going to leave any survivors.

Also, the Geth got publicly blamed for the attack on the Citadel at the end of ME1 ..so think of them as the convenient AI buggy man.

True. The Council did want to hide the existence of Reapers from the rest of the galaxy. Looks like that held until the ME:A ships launched.

[Anacronian]

I'm sure they asked the Quarians and pretty much got the story that the Geth rose up against the organics and that the Quarians made no mistake by going to war with them, That is the story Tali tell in ME1 and I guess that is the story the rest of the Quarians told.

[Civil War Man]

Not to mention that the Quarians had no idea about the Heretics. Even the Quarians with a sympathetic view of the Geth had no idea that there was a schism and that about half of the Geth held no ill will towards their creators. For all anyone knew, all Geth held the same hostility towards organic life that the Heretics did.

[TheFeniX]

I have purchased the game it's going to unlock in forty minutes and honestly I can't wait because I'm in full MST3K mode at this point.
And I'll be honest this is the first time in a year a new game came out and I looked at my bank account and did not instantly think "No way I can buy that or I won't make rent/power/food this month"

Huzzah for disposable money, now I just need someone as the control who can go out and buy 60$ worth of Pizza this evening and tell me if that was a smarter buy.

I missed this, sorry. Really, doing some more reading, I could see myself dumping some money into this just for (and this sounds childish) that they took a full nudity rating (for just one example). If you're going to push the romance angle, you can't be pulling punches here. I felt the same way about Fallout 4 with the "sold into PG-13 slavery" angle for Cait: either push adult content or cut it. I'm not asking for porno here. That would be dumb, but there's no reason an M-rated game can't push R-rated content.

This is near specifically why I bought all 3 Witchers even though I haven't beaten any of them. If I'm not willing to put my money where my mouth is then the medium is not going to evolve. This watering down of ratings over the past 20 years so they can make parents not feel guilty for buying their kids M-rated games is killing me.

So, how is it? Known issues aside.

[Mr Bean]

I have purchased the game it's going to unlock in forty minutes and honestly I can't wait because I'm in full MST3K mode at this point.
And I'll be honest this is the first time in a year a new game came out and I looked at my bank account and did not instantly think "No way I can buy that or I won't make rent/power/food this month"

Huzzah for disposable money, now I just need someone as the control who can go out and buy 60$ worth of Pizza this evening and tell me if that was a smarter buy.

I missed this, sorry. Really, doing some more reading, I could see myself dumping some money into this just for (and this sounds childish) that they took a full nudity rating (for just one example). If you're going to push the romance angle, you can't be pulling punches here. I felt the same way about Fallout 4 with the "sold into PG-13 slavery" angle for Cait: either push adult content or cut it. I'm not asking for porno here. That would be dumb, but there's no reason an M-rated game can't push R-rated content.

This is near specifically why I bought all 3 Witchers even though I haven't beaten any of them. If I'm not willing to put my money where my mouth is then the medium is not going to evolve. This watering down of ratings over the past 20 years so they can make parents not feel guilty for buying their kids M-rated games is killing me.

So, how is it? Known issues aside.

Yet to beat the prolog since I've been at work both days but I agree with reviews the gunplay is a lot tighter. Also the fact they say explicitly "How you answer questions determines what kind of Ryder you are". The facial animations are yes garbage but so far I've run across a half dozen "oh hey this is mass effect all right" moments like the little interactions between what few side characters I've met and two minor spore explaines

1. MINOR SPOILER Spoiler

Very quickly you get a first contact scenario and it's handled well because it's a shit scenario of stumbling across these aliens who are armed and are probably nervous and they did do a animation of the PC trying to look non-threatening before of course the aliens try and murder you

2. MINOR SPOILER Spoiler

Your in the first alien base you encounter with a guy called liam you stumble across this going someplace else and Ryder depending on your actions dialog is fun as Liam keeps asking why your poking the dangerous xenotech they have no idea about and Ryder says in essence Because science now excuse me as I poke this weird alien machine (paraphrased)

Don't know enough story yet and fuck the terrain constantly getting hung up while running (Not in combat however just trying to sprint from point A to B you get randomly hung up on stuff) so I rate this a "Give me about six more hours"

[Civil War Man]

Yet to beat the prolog since I've been at work both days but I agree with reviews the gunplay is a lot tighter. Also the fact they say explicitly "How you answer questions determines what kind of Ryder you are". The facial animations are yes garbage but so far I've run across a half dozen "oh hey this is mass effect all right" moments like the little interactions between what few side characters I've met and two minor spore explaines

(cut spoiler tags since they break the post)

Don't know enough story yet and fuck the terrain constantly getting hung up while running (Not in combat however just trying to sprint from point A to B you get randomly hung up on stuff) so I rate this a "Give me about six more hours"

I've been playing it, too. It feels a bit like a sci-fi version of Dragon Age: Inquisition, even down to having the same engine. Once you get past the prologue, it looks like most of the gameplay is focused traveling around large open-ended maps to scrounge up resources, kill enemies, and set up outposts, allowing you to occasionally break it up with some base building in Skyhold the Nexus.

They even have a mission table where you can recruit teams and send them on missions to get you stuff. For the missions, I do like this version better than DA:I's, since you can have multiple teams that get better and specialize in different things as they complete missions as opposed to DA:I's more static Diplomacy/Intrigue/Military choice. Some of the mission table stuff also ties into the multiplayer, and gives you the choice to either send a team or switch the game over the multiplayer so you can try to get the rewards yourself.

I am noticing more platforming than there was in Inquisition, but it's not too bad since you get jump jets.

As a side note, I've found that if you keep the default name for your character, people will actually call you by your first name from time to time, which does help a lot of conversations feel a bit more natural. It always felt a bit awkward in the previous games to be interacting with characters who are supposed to be your character's best friend or even lover but they constantly refer to you only by last name or title/rank.

[TheFeniX]

I've been playing it, too. It feels a bit like a sci-fi version of Dragon Age: Inquisition, even down to having the same engine. Once you get past the prologue, it looks like most of the gameplay is focused traveling around large open-ended maps to scrounge up resources, kill enemies, and set up outposts, allowing you to occasionally break it up with some base building in Skyhold the Nexus.

A joke I heard about DA:I, and now about ME:A, is "You have to work hard to make Frostbite look this bad."

As a side note, I've found that if you keep the default name for your character, people will actually call you by your first name from time to time, which does help a lot of conversations feel a bit more natural. It always felt a bit awkward in the previous games to be interacting with characters who are supposed to be your character's best friend or even lover but they constantly refer to you only by last name or title/rank.

While it's obviously as easy way out taken for that purpose, this was never grating for me. Some people just prefer being called by their last name and/or they just got used to it, especially (in my experience) with retired military. Two different guys I've talked to had to readjust to close friends calling them by their first name when they got back after a tour.

[Civil War Man]

A joke I heard about DA:I, and now about ME:A, is "You have to work hard to make Frostbite look this bad."

Yeah, they definitely don't use the engine to its potential, but it's not really a deal breaker for me. I never play games on their highest graphical settings anyway, even if my computer can handle it. And let's be honest, it's not like anyone plays Bioware games for their top-of-the-line graphics.

For me, as long as the frame rate doesn't drop too low or it's not physically painful to look at, I can forgive a lot of low-quality graphics.

On the plus side, the characters in ME:A don't look like they're all covered in a thin film of bacon grease.

While it's obviously as easy way out taken for that purpose, this was never grating for me. Some people just prefer being called by their last name and/or they just got used to it, especially (in my experience) with retired military. Two different guys I've talked to had to readjust to close friends calling them by their first name when they got back after a tour.

It makes sense for some characters and situations, but not others. Wrex calling Shepard Shepard makes perfect sense for his character. As does Iron Bull always calling the Inquisitor "Boss", even when they are Riding the Bull. What makes less sense is someone like, for example, Cullen calling the woman he just married Inquisitor in a private conversation.

As far as I've heard, NPCs in ME:A using Ryder's first name only works with the default name, so it's not like Codsworth in Fallout 4. And even then, so far I've only seen people who know Ryder personally (like their father or the AI) use their first name, while people who don't have that relationship stick with the usual last name/title. Still, I consider it a baby step forward considering older Bioware games didn't even manage to do last names.

In general, I'm finding ME:A to be mechanically functional and a decent enough diversion. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not feeling cheated or anything.

[Imperial528]

My only major gripes so far have been the restrictively simple character creator (You must choose a base head that resembles at all the one you want, since as far as I can tell the creator merely adjusts/scales from the selected preset, which seems to include skin tone to a degree) and that the door to SAM Node isn't lined up with the door frame.

[Anacronian]

My major gripe is the writing.

The main narrative is dull and uninspired and the conversations have the standards on a Tumblr fanfic.

[Mr Bean]

My major gripe is the writing.

The main narrative is dull and uninspired and the conversations have the standards on a Tumblr fanfic.

My main issue is the fact your almost a literal Mary Sue
Which is fine because my PC is named Mary Ryder because damn if nepotism does not pay. Congratulations kid your Queen for life because I died in your place.

At least the dad death scene (All the previews said "accident") made perfect sense to me, when he bit it I said yah I could see how this could kill him, sucks but he made the call.

[TheFeniX]

My main issue is the fact your almost a literal Mary Sue

Is this different than Sheppard? (Honest question). I know the guy paid his dues, but he gets the Spectre title and he's all the sudden Mr. "I am the laaw!" This is kind of a theme among most action oriented RPGs: you are Mr. (or Ms.) "get shit done and everyone else is useless."

Is Andromeda managing to top even that?

[Civil War Man]

My main issue is the fact your almost a literal Mary Sue

Is this different than Sheppard? (Honest question). I know the guy paid his dues, but he gets the Spectre title and he's all the sudden Mr. "I am the laaw!" This is kind of a theme among most action oriented RPGs: you are Mr. (or Ms.) "get shit done and everyone else is useless."

Is Andromeda managing to top even that?

Honestly, I say not even close. So far the impression I'm getting is that most of the people who are nice to you are doing it out of respect for the title as opposed to the person. One of the Nexus leaders is initially openly hostile to you, and only changes her tune when you start to get things done, and even then it's mostly because she wants to be associated with the popular new celebrity as a way of increasing her influence. And the leader who actively helps you in the beginning is pretty clear that he's only doing it because he has nothing to lose. Also, there are times when it's pretty clear that Cora is barely containing her resentment at being passed over for Pathfinder.

In fact, I'd say Cora is the bigger Mary Sue than Ryder, since she is the super powerful human biotic who got Asari Commando training through some sort of interspecies officer exchange program. Still, I mostly just find her generally not very interesting, as opposed to the people who have been getting triggered by her haircut.

Maybe it's just because I'm still slightly delirious from rewatching Manos: The Hands of Fate (choo choo all aboard the MST3K hype train!), but while it's obviously not high literature by any stretch of the imagination, I haven't really found anything uniquely heinous about ME:A's writing.

[Mr Bean]

My main issue is the fact your almost a literal Mary Sue

Is this different than Sheppard? (Honest question). I know the guy paid his dues, but he gets the Spectre title and he's all the sudden Mr. "I am the laaw!" This is kind of a theme among most action oriented RPGs: you are Mr. (or Ms.) "get shit done and everyone else is useless."

Is Andromeda managing to top even that?

Honestly, I say not even close. So far the impression I'm getting is that most of the people who are nice to you are doing it out of respect for the title as opposed to the person. One of the Nexus leaders is initially openly hostile to you, and only changes her tune when you start to get things done, and even then it's mostly because she wants to be associated with the popular new celebrity as a way of increasing her influence. And the leader who actively helps you in the beginning is pretty clear that he's only doing it because he has nothing to lose.

I'd disagree as Shepard by background is always at least a multi-year Alliance military veteran and either a A. Solo survivor of a Thresher Maw attack, or B. A legitimate war hero rallied the defenses on Elysium and single handily stopped several attacks by themselves in the finest traditions of Alliance service or C. A ruthless unit commander responsible for the complete destroy of all hostile forces on Torfan. Regardless of background Shepard is also an N7 graduate meaning they are Special Forces.

So Shepard before ever become Specter is either a famous war hero, a seasoned if brutal battle commander or someone who survived a combination of Castaway and a Godzilla movie.

Meanwhile Ryder is from what I understand basically an Alliance Reservist who has a space college degree and is the son/daughter of an N7 graduate but the entire endeavor is privately funded. Shepard had history, Ryder at least has his/her daddy.

[Anacronian]

Everybody in Andromeda seems to be absolute shit at doing anything until Ryder shows up, Hell in the months before Ryder they haven't even been able to establish a single colony, had a rebellion and trashed the station.

Apparently, life in Andromeda is impossible to figure out unless you are a Teenager with a borg implant.

[Civil War Man]

I'd disagree as Shepard by background is always at least a multi-year Alliance military veteran and either a A. Solo survivor of a Thresher Maw attack, or B. A legitimate war hero rallied the defenses on Elysium and single handily stopped several attacks by themselves in the finest traditions of Alliance service or C. A ruthless unit commander responsible for the complete destroy of all hostile forces on Torfan. Regardless of background Shepard is also an N7 graduate meaning they are Special Forces.

So Shepard before ever become Specter is either a famous war hero, a seasoned if brutal battle commander or someone who survived a combination of Castaway and a Godzilla movie.

Meanwhile Ryder is from what I understand basically an Alliance Reservist who has a space college degree and is the son/daughter of an N7 graduate but the entire endeavor is privately funded. Shepard had history, Ryder at least has his/her daddy.

Yet, at the same time, it's pretty clear that at least in the beginning, Ryder's AI is doing a vast majority of the heavy lifting, while Shepard is just naturally great at everything they do (except dancing).

But even ignoring Shepard, I still wouldn't call Ryder the most Mary Sue Bioware protagonist. The Inquisitor also has them beat.

[Crazedwraith]

Yet, at the same time, it's pretty clear that at least in the beginning, Ryder's AI is doing a vast majority of the heavy lifting, while Shepard is just naturally great at everything they do (except dancing).

A) How much of what Shepard does is 'naturally good' and how much is intensive training?
B) What is Shepard naturally good at that is outside the realm of being a highly trained operator who kicks ass?

[White Haven]

One thing along those lines that I really loved was the early sequence as backup singers to the Alec Ryder Murder Concert. It really drove home several different things; first, this is what it looks like to watch someone like Sheppard go to town. The PC isn't even close to keeping pace, Cora and Liam are just staring open-mouthed at the trail of carnage Alec is leaving in his wake -- this is the kind of absolutely incredible singularity of devastation that people watched Sheppard unleash in the original trilogy, seen from the outside.

That also wraps around to the point being discussed here; The PC Ryder is absolutely in way over her head and is only 'in charge' at all because there are certain things that Pathfinders have access to by security system design that are needed. The narrative and the mechanics of the fact that you are a level-nothing bottom bitch compared to Alec's death-tornado both combine to drive home the point that you are in WAY over your head.

As for 'no one can make shit work without the Pathfinder,' keep in mind that that doesn't mean Ryder. That means 'the Pathfinder, whoever that may be.' If Alec had lived, or passed the SAM link to Cora, Alec or Cora would be the one with SAM riding shotgun and thus managing the Remnant system interfacing that's really making everything possible.

That becomes less true as time goes on and the PC Ryder grows into the role, but that's going to be true of any butterbar lieutenant-equivalent being dumped in the deepest of deep ends and told to sink or swim. The game tends to end if 'sink' happens, which means swim, which means an extremely compressed crash-course in Doing What A Pathfinder Is Supposed To Do.

[Civil War Man]

A) How much of what Shepard does is 'naturally good' and how much is intensive training?
B) What is Shepard naturally good at that is outside the realm of being a highly trained operator who kicks ass?

I was employing some hyperbole there, but the fact of the matter is is that as much as Shepard may have intensive training, we never see any of that. We start out as one of the most skilled soldiers in Earth history from the word go, who kicks so much ass that we are an interstellar celebrity merely on account of being that badass a soldier, even before becoming the first human Spectre. I can't say much about what Shepard is good at outside being an ultra badass soldier, since the game doesn't cover much outside of being an ultra badass soldier, but at the same time, the only things that Shepard is canonically bad at are dancing and maybe chess.

That also wraps around to the point being discussed here; The PC Ryder is absolutely in way over her head and is only 'in charge' at all because there are certain things that Pathfinders have access to by security system design that are needed. The narrative and the mechanics of the fact that you are a level-nothing bottom bitch compared to Alec's death-tornado both combine to drive home the point that you are in WAY over your head.

As for 'no one can make shit work without the Pathfinder,' keep in mind that that doesn't mean Ryder. That means 'the Pathfinder, whoever that may be.' If Alec had lived, or passed the SAM link to Cora, Alec or Cora would be the one with SAM riding shotgun and thus managing the Remnant system interfacing that's really making everything possible.

Besides Ryder only having the authority he/she does due to SAM, it also establishes that SAM is using the connection to enhance Ryder physically. The whole Profile system is SAM tinkering with Ryder's body and brain chemistry to improve their ability to function in combat. At least early on (I've only just finished recruiting all party members), the narrative makes it pretty clear that SAM is the only reason Ryder has made any real progress.

[TheFeniX]

Yea, it's established pretty early that Shepard is an unmitigated badass, in training, experience, and results. It's laid on thick in dialog, but the gameplay is a bit segregated. Since we're all used to mowing down loads of badguys in every game, it's easy to look past that Shepard is mowing down loads of badguys from the start and just picks up more steam as you go along. There's more than a few conversations I can remember where it's like

"You might be Shepard, but you got no right to fuck with me."
"I'm a Spectre."
"lol whoops"

But it shouldn't even get that far if you're rengegade as it's shown Shepard gives no fucks about procedure only results, especially with any human who's moderately in the loop about current human events. And to be fair, there ARE renegade options where you don't rely on the Spectre intimidate option only "I'm Commander Shepard and I will destroy you." They nearly always work.

One of the toughest fights in the game (besides that stupid fucking walker-geth thingy) is the Asari Commando fight with.... Deanna Troy (whatever). And it's established they are a bad-news shit-salad for anyone they run up against. Shepard and co wiped out an entire squad of them. This is the first game.

A joke I heard, which I thought was funny: "Shepard was so badass, the Reapers had to kill him just to slow him down."

I have no problems with Shepard, he's one of my favorite VG characters, well FemShep because Hale, but the guy only skates the Mary Stu title because, from the start, they've established why he's in the position he is and why he can do the things he does.

[Lord Revan]

A lot of VG protagonists at very least skirt the edge of being a Mary Sue due to the medium, I'll explain in more detail later, right now I'm heading out of the country for a week (and thus don't have access to here).

[TheFeniX]

Have fun.

But for my own lunch-rant because I semi-disagree: It depends on the definition really. For me at least, I pull the "young" out of the equation and stick with "a person who, having no decently explained reason to, shows a level of excellence (not just skill) at most (if not all) aspects of whatever he/she takes part in. No points awarded for plot coupons."

Master Chief, for all his exploits, only truly excels are murdering the tits off Covenant forces. He's exceptional for a SPARTAN (at least until 343 upper the fan-wank), but he's more than able to lose, get hurt, get the wool pulled over his eyes.
The Fallout 3 and 4 (if female, the male was canonically a war vet) protagonists walk out of a vault and immediately start paving the road to the end credits with Raider bones, makes everyone fall in love with them, and just immediately become the center of everything.

I actually find Mary Sues much more rare in video games than other entertainment.