Brexit and General UK politics thread

[His Divine Shadow]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/poll-jere ... our-2017-5

LONDON - More people would consider voting for the Labour Party under its current leader Jeremy Corbyn than they would if the party were led by Tony Blair, an exclusive Business Insider / GfK poll has found.

Tony Blair has recently made a high-profile return to British politics, saying that he wants to "get [my] hands dirty" in the battle for Brexit and Labour's future.

However, our poll found that Blair is now a significantly more toxic figure than Corbyn.
We asked voters whether they would consider voting for Labour were it led by either Corbyn, Blair, Miliband, London mayor Sadiq Khan or rumoured future leadership candidate Cooper.

Blair was the most toxic of all the potential Labour leaders polled, with 61% saying they would not even consider voting for Labour were the party led by him, compared to just 23% who said they would.

Corbyn, by contrast, was the most popular candidate listed, with 31% saying they would consider voting Labour under his leadership as opposed to 53% who would not.

[jwl]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/poll-jere ... our-2017-5

LONDON - More people would consider voting for the Labour Party under its current leader Jeremy Corbyn than they would if the party were led by Tony Blair, an exclusive Business Insider / GfK poll has found.

Tony Blair has recently made a high-profile return to British politics, saying that he wants to "get [my] hands dirty" in the battle for Brexit and Labour's future.

However, our poll found that Blair is now a significantly more toxic figure than Corbyn.
We asked voters whether they would consider voting for Labour were it led by either Corbyn, Blair, Miliband, London mayor Sadiq Khan or rumoured future leadership candidate Cooper.

Blair was the most toxic of all the potential Labour leaders polled, with 61% saying they would not even consider voting for Labour were the party led by him, compared to just 23% who said they would.

Corbyn, by contrast, was the most popular candidate listed, with 31% saying they would consider voting Labour under his leadership as opposed to 53% who would not.

Another thing to note from that article is that he is more popular than khan or miliband but less popular (right now) than cooper. Although really I don't know why Blair and Khan are included because they are currently ineligible as Labour leader so they don't matter anyway.

[Dartzap]

Name recognition, possibly? Can't say I know any of the shadow cabinet beyond John McDonnell, Diane Abbot, Tom Watson and Kier Starmer.

[jwl]

Name recognition, possibly? Can't say I know any of the shadow cabinet beyond John McDonnell, Diane Abbot, Tom Watson and Kier Starmer.

By "ineligible" I mean they are not MPs (and not standing to be MPs), which is a requirement to be Labour leader. Miliband and Cooper aren't in the shadow cabinet either.

[Thanas]

Maybe Corbyn should check where his quotes come from....

[His Divine Shadow]

Doesn't seem a big deal to me + an easy mistake to make.

What I am noticing now is how all the tabloid shitrags are praising may for moving to centrist millband-esque policies they themselves would ruin the country in the last election. I guess Jeremy really managed to drag that overton window back from over the edge.

[Minischoles]

Doesn't seem a big deal to me + an easy mistake to make.

What I am noticing now is how all the tabloid shitrags are praising may for moving to centrist millband-esque policies they themselves would ruin the country in the last election. I guess Jeremy really managed to drag that overton window back from over the edge.

May could literally propose anything and the tabloids would praise her for it - I almost want her to come out in favour of child sex slavery to see the Sun run a front page stating how its good for the economy.

Half her policies are either directly stolen from Corbyn; policies that have him and Labour painted as commies - or stolen from previous Labour candidates, who were again treated as commies for proposing them.

But as May proposed them, they're suddenly great policies.

[jwl]

Doesn't seem a big deal to me + an easy mistake to make.

What I am noticing now is how all the tabloid shitrags are praising may for moving to centrist millband-esque policies they themselves would ruin the country in the last election. I guess Jeremy really managed to drag that overton window back from over the edge.

That actually reminds me of this article: http://chris4copeland.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... x.html?m=1
I'm not sure how much I agree with it, but what May is doing right now does help advance that hypothesis.

[Vendetta]

Doesn't seem a big deal to me + an easy mistake to make.

What I am noticing now is how all the tabloid shitrags are praising may for moving to centrist millband-esque policies they themselves would ruin the country in the last election. I guess Jeremy really managed to drag that overton window back from over the edge.

May could literally propose anything and the tabloids would praise her for it - I almost want her to come out in favour of child sex slavery to see the Sun run a front page stating how its good for the economy.

Half her policies are either directly stolen from Corbyn; policies that have him and Labour painted as commies - or stolen from previous Labour candidates, who were again treated as commies for proposing them.

But as May proposed them, they're suddenly great policies.

Of course.

Because she's also saying she's going to bin the leveson report so they'll be free to harrass and bullshit to their heart's content and damn any responsibility to impartiality, fact, or truth.

[Dartzap]

The Beeb are running a series of interviews with party leaders over the course of the week, first up is The Maybot 3000

you can really understand why she refused to do the debates

[His Divine Shadow]

Some have noted the system shock 2 parallels after the labour slogan containing the words "for the many", and ofcourse Mays resemblance.

[*img]http://i.imgur.com/rIE9BGD.jpg[/img]
Look at you, voter. A pathetic creature of meat and bone. Panting and sweating as you run through my means tests. How can you challenge a strong and stable government?

[His Divine Shadow]

Heard of the bombings, May must be breathing out a sigh of relief at this coming right when they where fucking everything up and labour was doing everything right and surging.

[madd0ct0r]

Heard of the bombings, May must be breathing out a sigh of relief at this coming right when they where fucking everything up and labour was doing everything right and surging.

Yeah, right in a labour heartland. I'll bet Cardiff swings tory too - security is crawling over the city for Uefa with checkpoints and concrete barriers eveywhere. Constant reminder of threat.

[Zaune]

If ISIS didn't exist, the Tories would have had to invent it, eh?

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm no Tory supporter, but that really isn't something to joke about. Bombing your own citizens, most of whom were children is something that not even the Tories would be willing to do. It's just too fucked up.

[Zaune]

I'm no Tory supporter, but that really isn't something to joke about. Bombing your own citizens, most of whom were children is something that not even the Tories would be willing to do. It's just too fucked up.

Oh, I dare say they aren't, if only because they have neither the imagination nor the balls to try. But that won't stop them cynically exploiting the fact that other people are doing it for their own gain.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I'm no Tory supporter, but that really isn't something to joke about. Bombing your own citizens, most of whom were children is something that not even the Tories would be willing to do. It's just too fucked up.

Oh, I dare say they aren't, if only because they have neither the imagination nor the balls to try. But that won't stop them cynically exploiting the fact that other people are doing it for their own gain.

See, that right there is a big problem in my view. Say what you will about the Tories (and there is plenty to say), but thinking that the only reason they aren't bombing children in their own country is due to a lack of imagination or courage? That's seriously messed up man. The fact that that is the ground state for feelings towards a major party is quite troubling really.

[Zaune]

What can I say? It could be at least partly the mental scars talking here, but most of my interactions with the optimistically-named Department of Work and Pensions has left me with the feeling they regard my continued existence as an inconvenience.

[Eternal_Freedom]

That is understandable (and I can somewhat sympathise, given my own experiences) but generalising from a government department to a political party, most of whom are not involved with said department, is a frankly silly thing to do.

[His Divine Shadow]

BTW. I heard someone comment elsewhere that there are different rules or something for the media since the snap election was called. Maybe not the whole media, but at least the BBC in times of election, and this has forced them to give more and fairer coverage to Corbyn.

And by giving him and his policies attention, instead of spending all time only airing negative stuff and trying to put him down and make him seem incompetent and doddering old jam grandpa.... He's started appearing as a competent leader with good policies.

It's amazing if that is true, what objective coverage can do for the course of politics, how we perceive a person, what power the media holds, and regularly abuses. It's really quite scary how un-objective and easily manipulated public perception is.

[Hillary]

BTW. I heard someone comment elsewhere that there are different rules or something for the media since the snap election was called. Maybe not the whole media, but at least the BBC in times of election, and this has forced them to give more and fairer coverage to Corbyn.

And by giving him and his policies attention, instead of spending all time only airing negative stuff and trying to put him down and make him seem incompetent and doddering old jam grandpa.... He's started appearing as a competent leader with good policies.

It's amazing if that is true, what objective coverage can do for the course of politics, how we perceive a person, what power the media holds, and regularly abuses. It's really quite scary how un-objective and easily manipulated public perception is.

All television media are bound by impartiality rules during an election campaign. Newspapers are not covered by the same rules, unfortunately.

However, there wasn't a BBC bias against him anyway. The government always get more coverage than the opposition - it's inevitable, as they are the body doing stuff. What exactly was there to report on about Corbyn until this election campaign? They showed him opposing the PM at PMQs but aside from that the only newsworthy things around Corbyn were the bad stuff. He announces something. So what? The next election was supposed to be three years away so how is a policy that won't happen news?

Now we're in an election campaign and he has a manifesto - one than could, in theory, be enacted. Suddenly, he becomes interesting and newsworthy.

[His Divine Shadow]

Yeah I don't buy that for a second and the more I see the more I become convinced of the opposite. It's obvious to me that the centrist third-wayists are frightened of the type of leftist politics Corbyn brings which is why the backstabbing started on the night Corbyn was elected leader. The thing they fear the most is that such politics might prove attractive to the people. No, it must be thoroughly discredited so nothing can threaten the golden path foretold by Francis Fukuyama in 1992. They are much like the democrats in the US, clinging to the bloated corpse of their ideology, refusing to believe this rotting, diseased thing is indeed, dead.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... hael-lyons
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... ate-labour

[Crazedwraith]

Quote's from the attack thread but the response fits better here:

Unsurprisingly the threat level has been raised from "Severe", to "Critical". The belief is that this guy was acting as part of a group, the goal now is to find the rest of them. They're calling in the army to provide security.

I must admit to being troubled greatly by the deployment of troops outside No10.They didn't do it when that arsehole knifed people outside the Elizabeth Tower. The bombing was 200 miles away. Only difference is our delightful election. It stinks of opportunism by May.

What really strikes me as opportunistic is the suspension in campaigning. UKIp have said they'll start up again tomorrow and Labour said they'll start up on Friday but there's no agreement and it seems like the Tories would be more than happy to suspend it for as long as possible given they're both in the lead and the crisis highlights them as the government responding.

[jwl]

All television media are bound by impartiality rules during an election campaign. Newspapers are not covered by the same rules, unfortunately.

However, there wasn't a BBC bias against him anyway. The government always get more coverage than the opposition - it's inevitable, as they are the body doing stuff. What exactly was there to report on about Corbyn until this election campaign? They showed him opposing the PM at PMQs but aside from that the only newsworthy things around Corbyn were the bad stuff. He announces something. So what? The next election was supposed to be three years away so how is a policy that won't happen news?

Now we're in an election campaign and he has a manifesto - one than could, in theory, be enacted. Suddenly, he becomes interesting and newsworthy.

Television news is bound by impartiality laws at all times, not just during an election campaign. But, as you say, during purdah the opposition becomes a lot more newsworthy.

I must admit to being troubled greatly by the deployment of troops outside No10. They didn't do it when that arsehole knifed people outside the Elizabeth Tower. The bombing was 200 miles away. Only difference is our delightful election. It stinks of opportunism by May.

There's a big difference between building and deploying a sophisticated nail bomb under the noses of MI5 and buying a knife in a random shop and going out and killing people. One implies well-organised threat and/or a failing of intelligence services, another doesn't.

[Crazedwraith]

So Corbyn has suggested a link between our foriegn policy and terrorist attacks and somehow rhis vaused outrage among everyone except UKIP. Who in a right for the wrong reasons thing agree with him.

Massively lost respect for the other opposition parties.