Game of Thrones season seven trailer.

[The Romulan Republic]

https://www.youtube.com/watc?v=giYeaKsXnsI

Looks gorgeous, as usual. I wonder if they're hinting at a Cersei/Danaerys/Jon grand alliance against the White Walkers.

Trailer music reminds me a bit of Fury Road. This makes me happy.

[Iroscato]

So much HNNNNNG.

I'm almost ashamed to admit a small part of me wants Cersei to somehow come out on top of this - not necessarily kill Jon and Dany, but emerge at the end of the war with the most forces left standing and therefore the one calling the shots against the White Walkers. That could be an interesting way to enter the endgame.

Most of me wants her to become a light snack for Drogon, though.

[The Romulan Republic]

Cersei is a horrible, horrible person, but then, most of the characters in GoT are, in one way or another, and they're all ultimately products of an utterly horrible world. Cersei's determination is at least admirable, if delusional- I can't imagine her triumphing against that ridiculously huge fleet Danny was bringing across the ocean at the end of last season, much less the dragons.

Her only chance is going to be to fight defensively until the mutual threat of extermination by White Walkers brings everyone to the negotiating table. And even then, I expect the best deal she could hope for would be to retain control of the Lannister lands under Danaerys's rule, in exchange for helping against the White Walkers.

But thematically, I think it might fit more for Cersei to die futily. Her whole story, as I see it, is one of constantly grasping for power and respect, and losing everything in the attempt. And now, as I see it, that journey is almost complete. She is queen, but a queen of an impoverished realm, surrounded by people who hate her, her family mostly dead. All that's left is to become a footnote in history.

Edit: Still, though, made it to the semi-finals. Not bad.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Considering one of the scenes in the trailer shows the Unsullied entering either Lannisport or Casterley Rock, it doesn't seem like Lannister lands will remain so for long.

[Crazedwraith]

Considering one of the scenes in the trailer shows the Unsullied entering either Lannisport or Casterley Rock, it doesn't seem like Lannister lands will remain so for long.

Or rather will be returned to the rightful Lord, Tyrion.

[Alferd Packer]

I've said as much in other GoT threads, but I firmly believe the Cersei is going to be a minor speedbump in what is ultimately going to be a Targaryen restoration. She's Queen of the Seven Kingdoms in name only. The North is back in open revolt, and the Vale is allied with them for the moment. The Iron Islands are doing their own thing, and are at least partially (through Theon and Yara) supporting Dany. The Riverlands are nominally under the Crown's control through the Freys and Edmund Tully's captivity, but Walder Frey's death has made that uncertain. The Reach and Dorne are allied in secret (or not so secret) with Dany.

So that leaves the Westerlands, the Crownlands, and possibly the Stormlands, which Cersei may have inherited or claimed, since there are no more Baratheons around. Against a dragon-backed Targaryen army with the direct support of 2 Great Houses, I don't think it's enough. I suspect the Lannister/Crown armies get steamrolled, then revolts start popping up as various houses realize that they're on the losing side of the war. And on the eve of her defeat, Cersei will, as a final act of spite, attempt to blow up either the Red Keep or entirety of King's Landing with wildfire. Jaime will either have to kill her to stop the order, or refuse to kill her and die with her.

Then we get on to the ultimate conflict of the story--the war against the dead.

[The Romulan Republic]

Considering one of the scenes in the trailer shows the Unsullied entering either Lannisport or Casterley Rock, it doesn't seem like Lannister lands will remain so for long.

Or rather will be returned to the rightful Lord, Tyrion.

Which also represents a final defeat from beyond the grave for Tywin.

[FaxModem1]

Knowing George RR Martin, I wouldn't be surprised if it all ends in utter death and destruction, with Westeros eventually being nothing but ruins as the White Walkers kill everyone. I don't think Dany and Jon MIGHT be able to ally with each other against the White Walkers, but this isn't that kind of show. It'll be nothing but everyone dying.

[Crazedwraith]

Knowing George RR Martin, I wouldn't be surprised if it all ends in utter death and destruction, with Westeros eventually being nothing but ruins as the White Walkers kill everyone. I don't think Dany and Jon MIGHT be able to ally with each other against the White Walkers, but this isn't that kind of show. It'll be nothing but everyone dying.

I've never read anything that GRRM's finished so I don't know how he ends things. But I'm hoping for a deconstruction/reconstruction. Where valour and heroism, tempered by some common sense win the day.

It seems pointless to follow the characters all this time if the end is 'eveyone dies because you wouldn't expect that!'

[TheFeniX]

Knowing George RR Martin, I wouldn't be surprised if it all ends in utter death and destruction, with Westeros eventually being nothing but ruins as the White Walkers kill everyone. I don't think Dany and Jon MIGHT be able to ally with each other against the White Walkers, but this isn't that kind of show. It'll be nothing but everyone dying.

Martin might be grim enough to set that up, but it's debatable whether the show writers would. That said, the White Walkers took their shot once and were beaten back by a united front. It wouldn't surprised me if they have issues dealing with temperate weather for an extended time either way. Then again, I actually have little idea about GoT Winters. Are we talking freezing temps all the way down to King's Landing?

In that case, I could see some sappy bleak flash-forward where a only a few hold-outs are left, but there's this scene showing ice melting off a tree-branch or some shit before the credits roll. "Everyone's fucked, but THERE'S HOPE FOR THE FUTURE." You know, because why not?

Still, at least for me: we're at a point where "rocks fall, everyone dies" is just kind of "whatever" at this point. So, I'm throwing my cash into the "Hound solos the Night King with an axe, while saying 'fuck the King.'"

[Solauren]

Considering that the first time Westros was conquered by the Targeyons, they had with three dragons, a smaller army, and no native allies, and no one feared dragons...

versus

Dani has thee dragons, a good sized army, and some powerful allies,and everyone remembers how fucking dangerous dragons are...

I'd say Dani is going to land her fleet, meet up with the Dornish and Tyrell armies, and then proceed to steam roll Cersei. Cersei's allies will quickly change sides or die horribly.

That will leave Danni in control of Westros except for the Vale + the North (and arguably the Riverlands would be on Jon's side as well, or at least Sansa's).

Odds are, Jon would want to ally with Dani to fight the Walkers. And if Targeyon Dna kicks in, odds are, they'll end up together. If they go far enough north, they'll end up heading south again, and it will appear the sunrise has flipped. That could break the Blood Curse on Dani, and allow them to have kids, thereby continuing their family line.


Note:
Since Mr. Martin based 'A Song of Ice and Fire' on the War of the Roses, this probably holds. The War of the Roses started with the rightful king losing the throne, and then the major fighting houses reuniting under the rightful heir (Henry VII) to toss off the last of the Usurpr line (Richard III), ending with a marriage between the rightful heir (Henry VII) and a marriage 'rebel' house (Elizabeth of York)

Historically, I'd line the Starks with the Yorks, thereby making Jon Elizabeth of York, Dani with Henry VII, and Cersei with Richard III of England
Obviously Jon and Dani's roles are mixed compared to their historical counterparts, but still, it works.

[The Romulan Republic]

Does that mean that Cersei dies offering her kingdom for a horse?

[Alferd Packer]

I mean, even discounting the historical sources, I think the show's progression has been pretty well telegraphed for the astute viewer. Cersei is usurped by a Targaryen restoration, and Dany goes subjugate the Vale and the North. Jon, as King in the North, has been waging a losing war against the dead. Dany, still amped up on her conquest and ascension to her father's throne, wants to burn the rebels and the dead alike, but is Tyrion, et al. counsel her that a Jon Snow(Jon Stark at this point?) makes a great political marriage candidate, since the rest of the Seven Kingdoms are under control either directly or via alliances. Jon assents to the marriage with the condition that the full might of the Seven Kingdoms must march north against the dead, and so it goes.

Remember, we only get 15 more episodes over the next 15 or so months to wrap every plotline up (except for what happened to Gendry). There just isn't time for upheaving, plot-changing twists anymore. We'll definitely get the curveball here and there regarding the fates of beloved characters, but the general story arc, given the source material and the previous six seasons, is pretty much spelled out.

And yes, the showrunners could theoretically fuck everything up with a shocking, nonsensical swerve, but HBO's got too much riding on Game of Thrones. They're going to get it right.

[RogueIce]

What I want to know is, will Jamie ultimately choose that inner nobility that keeps trying to crawl out, or decide that twincest really is wincest for him?

[Solauren]

What I want to know is, will Jamie ultimately choose that inner nobility that keeps trying to crawl out, or decide that twincest really is wincest for him?

Can't it be both? Does Cersei silly so her eyes roll back in her head, and the final thrusts are a dagger into her heart, and then a dagger into his own.

[TheFeniX]

I'm more of the mind of Jamie getting saddled with both the "Kingslayer" and "Queenslayer" title and living with it. Danny understanding her dad was a douche might not be enough to save him, but Tyrion having her ear (he doesn't seem to hold a grudge against his big bro, if anything he's always liked him) combined with forcing Jamie to live with the shame kind of sells it for me. And honestly, I could see a combination of Lancelot and Caine myths going on as Danny casts him out to live as a vagabond "branded" as it were by being an instantly recognizable (he's well known already, more so with a gold sword-hand prostectic) with the understanding that anyone who tried to kill/hurt him would get a load of dragon-shit dumped on them. Basically, "go live a long life dealing with your guilt and failure."

Just some late-night drunk ramblings, but I'd like to watch that way more than incestuous murder-suicide. Or really anything. Forcing Jamie to hang around King's Landing as a Queen's Guard in name only would work as well. And I always "kind of" felt for the guy. Being uber-badass sword-dood and yet forced to sit outside Rob's room while he banged multiple whores and being so hard up for a good fight had to suck. Sure, silver-lining: all Rob's kids via Cersei were actually his, but he had to deal with Rob disrespecting his Sister and Lover for like, what, 16 years or more?

Sure, he wouldn't WANT Rob touching her. But the idea that Rob would touch prostitutes when he was married to Cersei had to have been an issue. Also, that Rob basically ruined her by being a shitty husband. IIRC, Cersei was originally really stoked about marrying Rob, but he ruined that quick pineing for Lyanna.

[Terralthra]

Cersei was stoked about marrying Robert Baratheon because it meant her children would rule the Kingdom, and she'd get to be near Jaime (already Kingsguard). She and Jaime were leaning towards incest in puberty. That's part of why Tywin sent Jaime away from Casterly Rock in the first place.

[TheFeniX]

Cersei was stoked about marrying Robert Baratheon because it meant her children would rule the Kingdom, and she'd get to be near Jaime (already Kingsguard). She and Jaime were leaning towards incest in puberty. That's part of why Tywin sent Jaime away from Casterly Rock in the first place.

It's debatable based on this scene at around the 5:20 minute mark:


I also recall another scene where she talked about (to whom, I don't recall) about how happy she was to be marrying a hero like Robert and how that feeling turned to shit quickly after she realized he would never love her. The death of their first-born probably didn't help. Sure, she could be lieing through her teeth, but these scenes struck me as one of the few times when she was playing it straight.

Yes, the wincest was a factor, but I see no reason to believe Cersei would have preferred Jamie over Robert if Rob wasn't such a shity ruler, husband, father, etc. The character isn't all that old from what I recall, even after 17+years, Tywin expected her to bear more children. I don't know how old Cersei was when she married Rob, but I'm thinking late-teens at best. A bit young to have the hard stance she has by the series start even if her younger self in flash-backs was a stuck-up noble. This strikes me more of a young woman who thinks she's going to have everything, what man couldn't love her? And instead gets.... Robert Baratheon.

So, this is more a combination, to me at least, of Rob being awful and Jamie being close to let her feelings take over. And let's face it, Jamie wasn't the only Lannister she was banging. I think Rob (and likely the death of their first) just really did a number on her.

[TheFeniX]

Ghetto edit: Though to be fair, thinking about her flashback and everything else, I honestly can't say how far back her psychopathy? goes. Would she have stayed true to Rob even if he hadn't been a sleaze? Or would she have just given back into Jamie after a certain amount of time? I also can't remember if they lost their first born due to natural causes or if she aborted it. My memory is bad here, I had assumed she lost the first one on accident and after that she killed any baby Rob put in her the few times he bothered to try.

It really is/was hard to peg down the characters in the early seasons of the show, except maybe the Starks. I find this lacking in later seasons as everyone is really starting to fall into general archetypes.

[FaxModem1]

Is Dany really becoming a mad Queen? Tyrion talking to her and getting her to see reason was sort of a recurring thing for last season. She has a big picture in her mind, and Tyrion is good at moving things into place (as long as he has a power base). Worst we've seen her do is crucify slavers who crucified children themselves. That's really nothing compared to the Boltons.

Though I could be wrong, and she's planning on burning all of Westeros down as soon as someone doesn't bend the knee.

[Solauren]

Is Dany really becoming a mad Queen? Tyrion talking to her and getting her to see reason was sort of a recurring thing for last season. She has a big picture in her mind, and Tyrion is good at moving things into place (as long as he has a power base). Worst we've seen her do is crucify slavers who crucified children themselves. That's really nothing compared to the Boltons.

Though I could be wrong, and she's planning on burning all of Westeros down as soon as someone doesn't bend the knee.

I think she's more determined and 'I'm not taking shit from anyone anymore' then 'mad'. She has more force to bring to bare then her family did the first time they conquered Westros. She's also faced more then her ancestors did. She been part of a Dothraki horde (and then cowed the Dothraki as a race), faced down and defeated Warlocks, survived assassination attempts, been betrayed (by the blood magi), and finally conquered and then crushed Slavers Bay.

It's time for her to reclaim her birthright, and she knows, and isn't going to let, anyone get in her way.

[Terralthra]

I don't know if or how show-canon differs, but in the books, she definitely made sure not to bear any of Rob's children, deliberately.

[Solauren]

I don't know if or how show-canon differs, but in the books, she definitely made sure not to bear any of Rob's children, deliberately.

But that was only after the first one died, and she realized what a piece of shit Robert really was.

[Shroom Man 777]

Is Dany really becoming a mad Queen? Tyrion talking to her and getting her to see reason was sort of a recurring thing for last season. She has a big picture in her mind, and Tyrion is good at moving things into place (as long as he has a power base). Worst we've seen her do is crucify slavers who crucified children themselves. That's really nothing compared to the Boltons.

Though I could be wrong, and she's planning on burning all of Westeros down as soon as someone doesn't bend the knee.

I think she's more determined and 'I'm not taking shit from anyone anymore' then 'mad'.

An Angry Queen then!

[Terralthra]

I don't know if or how show-canon differs, but in the books, she definitely made sure not to bear any of Rob's children, deliberately.

But that was only after the first one died, and she realized what a piece of shit Robert really was.

Not according to the books. In the books, she fucked Jaime the morning of her wedding to Robert, and when Robert called her Lyanna on their first night, she was donesies. The one time Robert impregnated her, she made Jaime get her an abortifacient, and made sure it never happened again.