Brexit and General UK politics thread

[His Divine Shadow]

June is usually the end of May, lets hope this year does the same.

[His Divine Shadow]

Were's the magic money tree? Corbyn for Jam Stalin of the UK.

https://twitter.com/JmeBBK/status/870267107921076224

[EnterpriseSovereign]

According to the news, Corbyn is steadily gaining in the polls, at May's expense. When she first announced it, it looked like a smart move on May's part. With a week to go people are already speaking of a hung parliament- if this happens there's no way that she'll remain Conservative leader.

Though I don't like either leader, hell will freeze over before I vote for a party that wants to lose the UK nuclear deterrent. Until recently it was reasonable to claim that the USA could have been relied on to retaliate on our behalf if attacked. Then they put president pussygrabber in the Oval Office- if that's not reason enough to retain our nukes I don't know what is.

[Crazedwraith]

Though I don't like either leader, hell will freeze over before I vote for a party that wants to lose the UK nuclear deterrent. Until recently it was reasonable to claim that the USA could have been relied on to retaliate on our behalf if attacked. Then they put president pussygrabber in the Oval Office- if that's not reason enough to retain our nukes I don't know what is.

Good thing that Labour officially doesn't want to lose the Nuclear deterrent.

Labour supports the renewal of
the Trident nuclear deterrent. As a
nuclear-armed power, our country
has a responsibility to fulfil our
obligations under the Nuclear NonProliferation
Treaty. Labour will lead
multilateral efforts with international
partners and the UN to create a
nuclear-free world.

At least until everyone is nuke free. How much you believe that is up to you of course.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Honestly that was one thing that disappointed me about Corbyn - he was asked during a BBC interview if he, as Prime Minister, would support replacing the Trident fleet - and they had to ask him five or six times in succession to actually get a straight answer.

[Tribble]

I'm inclined agree with Corbyn - the U.K's biggest threat by far are themselves, not some hypothetical war with Russia. Why waste money on nuclear deterrence when the UK is tearing itself apart already?

[Vendetta]

According to the news, Corbyn is steadily gaining in the polls, at May's expense. When she first announced it, it looked like a smart move on May's part. With a week to go people are already speaking of a hung parliament- if this happens there's no way that she'll remain Conservative leader.

As Nick Robinson asked when the election was called: "What was it about the recent 20% [lead in the polls] that first attracted you to a general election?"

(That lead is down to 3% now).

[The Vortex Empire]

Honestly that was one thing that disappointed me about Corbyn - he was asked during a BBC interview if he, as Prime Minister, would support replacing the Trident fleet - and they had to ask him five or six times in succession to actually get a straight answer.

Look at May's ability to answer questions, heh.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -newshound

[His Divine Shadow]

I'm inclined agree with Corbyn - the U.K's biggest threat by far are themselves, not some hypothetical war with Russia. Why waste money on nuclear deterrence when the UK is tearing itself apart already?

Some countries want to appear to have big dicks and waste money on that and bullshit international prestige, rather than spending the money at home. On the fucking poors.

[Minischoles]

May tried way too hard to make this election about her vs Corbyn - all of the early election material barely even mentioned the Tories, it was always her being prominent, her sound bite of 'strong and stable'. She thought she could walk it in.

Unfortunately she brought into the polls a little too much, didn't seem to realise just how much her perceived 'popularity' was due to a complicit right wing press fawning over her; since now people have actually been exposed to her, they realise she was zero warmth, zero personality and zero ability to answer a question.
She's spent the entire election hiding from 'meeting the people' as every time she actually meets someone who hasn't been pre vetted and checked, she can't defend herself.

Compare this to Corbyn, who looks at home talking to practically everybody (even Katie Hopkins), has an actual personality and morals - he even gets a little pissed off when attacked by the press, he actually seems like a human instead of a lizard person in a human suit.

When the worst personal attack they can come up with against Corbyn is a (false) accusation that he was an IRA supporter, you know they're struggling.

Couple that with broadcasting rules that mean they can't be so openly biased anymore and everyone being exposed to an actual impartial look at both leaders, May is losing.

I doubt she'll lose as much as some polls are showing, but if she loses even a few MPs instead of massively increasing her vote share, she'll be ousted; the knives are already being sharpened in the Tories, there are already rumblings.

[madd0ct0r]

And which chinless wonder is lining up behind her? Gove? Boris?

[His Divine Shadow]

Prime Minister BoJo

[Dartzap]

Hopefully he gets collard by the FBI as well....

[Eternal_Freedom]

Honestly that was one thing that disappointed me about Corbyn - he was asked during a BBC interview if he, as Prime Minister, would support replacing the Trident fleet - and they had to ask him five or six times in succession to actually get a straight answer.

Look at May's ability to answer questions, heh.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -newshound

I'm not saying she's better, not in the slightest. But it's disapointing to see someone who is (normally) able to give comparatively simple/straightforward answers duck and dodge so much.

[Vendetta]

Honestly that was one thing that disappointed me about Corbyn - he was asked during a BBC interview if he, as Prime Minister, would support replacing the Trident fleet - and they had to ask him five or six times in succession to actually get a straight answer.

Look at May's ability to answer questions, heh.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -newshound

I'm not saying she's better, not in the slightest. But it's disapointing to see someone who is (normally) able to give comparatively simple/straightforward answers duck and dodge so much.

The question was loaded though because everyone knows he's personally opposed to Trident, by avoiding the direct answer he avoids the follow up of "doesn't that mean you're soft on defence?"

Focusing on the fact renewal is in the manifesto shuts down that line of attack.

[Eternal_Freedom]

True.

[Vendetta]

All the press was about him being a terrible shambles but actually he's been playing the game for a long time, so a journo thought they'd get an easy trip up and didn't. They just weren't imaginative enough to reframe or follow up the answer and thought they'd Paxman it and hope for a breakdown.

[Alkaloid]

It's funny. A few weeks ago I thought he worst case scenario for May would be that they burned a few of the more right wing anti-Corby Labour MPs out of Parliament and allowed Corbyn to get control of his party room, making him far more formidable.

Now it looks like she is going to
1. Lose enough MPs to Labour to strengthen Corbyn's position in the party room and with the voters
2. Not lose enough MPs to Labour that they take government, meaning they will be held responsible for the clusterfuck the Brexit negotiations will be
3. Lose her job to someone like Boris Johnson, an actual human muppet
4. Have ding don the witch is dead top the charts again when she dies.

[jwl]

According to the news, Corbyn is steadily gaining in the polls, at May's expense. When she first announced it, it looked like a smart move on May's part. With a week to go people are already speaking of a hung parliament- if this happens there's no way that she'll remain Conservative leader.

Though I don't like either leader, hell will freeze over before I vote for a party that wants to lose the UK nuclear deterrent. Until recently it was reasonable to claim that the USA could have been relied on to retaliate on our behalf if attacked. Then they put president pussygrabber in the Oval Office- if that's not reason enough to retain our nukes I don't know what is.

But unless you are living in Corbyn or May's constituency, you won't be voting for them, you'll be voting for potential MPs who may or may not follow the party line on Trident. It might do you good to ask them. Also, the election isn't just Labour vs conservative, depending on the constituency, you could be voting for 6 or more potential MPs. I heard UKIP is quite enthusiastic about defence spending (but not military intervention), if that's the most important policy for you then you could vote for them. If not, the lib dems want to keep Trident, although they may downscale it a bit.

[jwl]

May tried way too hard to make this election about her vs Corbyn - all of the early election material barely even mentioned the Tories, it was always her being prominent, her sound bite of 'strong and stable'. She thought she could walk it in.

Unfortunately she brought into the polls a little too much, didn't seem to realise just how much her perceived 'popularity' was due to a complicit right wing press fawning over her; since now people have actually been exposed to her, they realise she was zero warmth, zero personality and zero ability to answer a question.
She's spent the entire election hiding from 'meeting the people' as every time she actually meets someone who hasn't been pre vetted and checked, she can't defend herself.

Compare this to Corbyn, who looks at home talking to practically everybody (even Katie Hopkins), has an actual personality and morals - he even gets a little pissed off when attacked by the press, he actually seems like a human instead of a lizard person in a human suit.

When the worst personal attack they can come up with against Corbyn is a (false) accusation that he was an IRA supporter, you know they're struggling.

Couple that with broadcasting rules that mean they can't be so openly biased anymore and everyone being exposed to an actual impartial look at both leaders, May is losing.

I doubt she'll lose as much as some polls are showing, but if she loses even a few MPs instead of massively increasing her vote share, she'll be ousted; the knives are already being sharpened in the Tories, there are already rumblings.

On Theresa May: that may be your opinion personally, but, as I have mentioned, May still has positive approval ratings as far as I am aware, and for a party leader these days that is very good. May is still an asset to he conservatives, she just isn't as much of an asset as she was previously.

That said, the leader who loses the election is the leader who loses their leadership, that's how political parties work these days.

[Crazedwraith]

I heard UKIP is quite enthusiastic about defence spending (but not military intervention), if that's the most important policy for you then you could vote for them.

UKIP's policy is schizophrenic. "We want to build up the military and make it strong, so we never use it."

[jwl]

I heard UKIP is quite enthusiastic about defence spending (but not military intervention), if that's the most important policy for you then you could vote for them.

UKIP's policy is schizophrenic. "We want to build up the military and make it strong, so we never use it."

Perhaps. However their perspective is that the military is supposed to work as a deterrent, or as insurance in the case of an attempted invasion, not for meddling in the affairs of other countries. They think there should be more of that deterrent/insurance aspect of it. They might make the analogy that just because you are prepared to pay a lot of money for safety devices and insurance on your car doesn't mean you should crash the car to try it out.

Although looking it up, UKIP is not as pro-Trident as I expected it to be. Nuttall's UKIP currently supports Trident renewal, but under Farage they wanted to replace it with a cheaper ground-based system. However, they are still pro overall defence spending.

So yeah, unless you live in a constituancy which has parties other than the usual six, the only party which consistently offers an non-downgraded trident is the conservatives. Again though, your local conservative candidate may not necessarily agree with his/her party on this.

[mr friendly guy]

Are we talking about these interviews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KllymYee9AI

Paxman has lost the plot. Literally he would ask a question, and when Corbyn tries to answer, he interrupts and asks a second question while Corbyn is still trying to answer the first one.

Edit - he also does the same with May.

[Patroklos]

Though I don't like either leader, hell will freeze over before I vote for a party that wants to lose the UK nuclear deterrent. Until recently it was reasonable to claim that the USA could have been relied on to retaliate on our behalf if attacked. Then they put president pussygrabber in the Oval Office- if that's not reason enough to retain our nukes I don't know what is.

This right here (the attitude you allude to, not yourself) sums up the complete negligence and selfishness of Europe's current "participation" in NATO and allied defense spending generally. And proves Trump's (and Obama's, yes, they have the SAME position on this) point about free riders, congratulations.

[His Divine Shadow]

Just some scum that floated to the top:
https://zelo-street.blogspot.fi/2017/06 ... um=twitter