Doctor Who S36E11: World Enough and Time (Spoilers)

[JLTucker]

So... this last episode was pretty much amazing, in my opinion, and certainly showcases all of Moffat's strengths as a writer. It's ont very often, at least to me, that a character upstages the Doctor. Missy did just that.

Unfortunately, the marketing for the episode was bullshit because we've known pre-season that the Master from series 29 would be back and that different Cybermen would make an appearance. It was bullshit of the highest order and the result was one of complete lack of emotional investment.

If they kill off Bill, it will be fine because they stuck to their guns and didn't pull a Clara, but I do not like how she'll leave when Capaldi does. This seems to have been planned from the start. You get shitty companions like Rose for two seasons, Clara (spotty quality) for 2.5, and you take this character and give her one? GTFO! Hell, even Martha and Donna were short-changed.

Anyway, good episode in my book. I'll give ****s despite the spoilers on behalf of the BBC.

[B5B7]

As a real old time fan the re-introduction of Mondas and Mondasian cybermen was great to see.
A "shocker" with what happened to Bill, and her interaction with the Doctor at the end was brilliant.
Yeah, she should have been more than a one season companion, but she has been converted, and should not and will not be de-converted.

[JLTucker]

Remember that bull with Mr. Pink when he was a Cyberman? Lol

[The Romulan Republic]

As a real old time fan the re-introduction of Mondas and Mondasian cybermen was great to see.
A "shocker" with what happened to Bill, and her interaction with the Doctor at the end was brilliant.
Yeah, she should have been more than a one season companion, but she has been converted, and should not and will not be de-converted.

I'd rather they not waste a promising character by giving them only one season.

And when has Moffat ever not re-written canon at will?

[Bedlam]

A truly creepy and disturbing episode, although what else can you expect from the original Cyberman design? The newer metal shell ones are just robots really but the originals let your imagination fill in what the hell they look like under the wraps and it's certainly not pretty.

The PAIN! PAIN! PAIN! scene followed by KILL ME! was one of the most disturbing things I've witnessed in ages. The fact that the 'humans' just mute their voices rather than doing anything about their suffering and that the final solution is not to stop their pain but to make them not care about it. Potentially a comment on our medical system? And the fact that it was all being done for their own good was the icing on the cake.

[Parallax]

Fascinating that they included Zathras from Babylon 5

[Hillary]

"I waited...I waited...for you" - that was heartbreaking.

I so wished they hadn't publicised the return of the Mondas Cybermen - it made it obvious what the face wrapped people were going to become.

This version of the Cybermen was always the best so it's great to see them return.

[The Romulan Republic]

Oh God, horrible thought...

Moffat is killing off Bill to facilitate bringing his pet Clara back for 12's finale.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I think that was an excellent episode, and a clever and interesting use of time dilation, though part of me wants to go and work out how close they'd have to be for less than 400 miles to make that big a difference in relative time. And how the ship can be that close and not be shredded by tidal forces.

As for the Mondasian Cybermen...god they're freaky. Like a bizarre cross between the Borg and Slenderman.

[Bedlam]

I think that was an excellent episode, and a clever and interesting use of time dilation, though part of me wants to go and work out how close they'd have to be for less than 400 miles to make that big a difference in relative time. And how the ship can be that close and not be shredded by tidal forces.

Yeah, I'm wondering what things are like in the lift, how long subjectively did it take for the protocybermen in the lift to get from the bottom of the ship to the top and back again? Given that Billy had a fist sized hole in her chest and probably had less than a minute to live.

Plus if the difference between the bottom and top of the ship was thousands of fold wouldn't people be dying by their heads running at a significantly different rate to their legs?

Probably best to just accept the effect without thinking exactly how it's working.

[Iroscato]

Oh God, horrible thought...

Moffat is killing off Bill to facilitate bringing his pet Clara back for 12's finale.

Don't do that to yourself, man

Loved the episode. I'm hoping they round off the best series in years with a strong finale too.

[SpottedKitty]

Plus if the difference between the bottom and top of the ship was thousands of fold wouldn't people be dying by their heads running at a significantly different rate to their legs?

The nuts and bolts of relativistic maths can get a bit bizarre. It's not a straight linear relationship, but an average human (or Mondasian) at about 5-6 feet tall, just isn't big enough for a significant difference.

For a more extreme example of the same problem, there's Larry Niven's Neutron Star, although that dealt more with the gravitational/tidal effects than time dilation.

[The Romulan Republic]

Oh God, horrible thought...

Moffat is killing off Bill to facilitate bringing his pet Clara back for 12's finale.

Don't do that to yourself, man

You have to admit, it would be a very Moffaty thing to do.

I've seen regrettably little of this season, but I like what I've seen of Bill. I'm not usually one of the "Bring back X" fans, particularly, but in this case, if they're really done with her... yeah.

[Soontir C'boath]

A bit that does bother me even though they did bring it up with Bill is, there are many different levels to the ship and yet they are afraid to leave because of just one level where no one came back. They would rather be converted than to search out other floors with solar farms (the one he mentioned was just considered one of the largest on the ship) which seems rather extreme. By the way, if the other end of the ship is a hell of a lot slower, then it would seem to be a rather good idea to send people over there to pass the time and only come back when they get hungry and what not, but again that fear of leaving to another level is there... Still seems rather contrived even if it is meant to be devious on his part. For all we know, he was the threat that took out that expedition.

Another bit that bothers me is that blue alien who shot Bill. It's not like they'll do anything to him and as we've seen they don't care about non-humans, so why bother shooting her except for lame dramatic effect? Ugh, but I guess I shouldn't be surprise to find out he was working for him in the next episode.

Overall, I did think the episode meandered as if we had to experience the slow pace of time that Bill went through, but it was a pretty cool reveal in the end seeing and hearing the Mondasian Cybermen again.

[Iroscato]

I hope Simm-Master is a bit more subdued in his mannerisms, the signs so far point to that what with him looking and feeling more like a "traditional" Master in the brief time we saw him. I need something to wash the last remains of the flying, electricity-shooting, turkey-devouring fruitcake we saw in The End of Time...

Yes I'm still sore over that after 8 years. Shut it.

[jwl]

I think that was an excellent episode, and a clever and interesting use of time dilation, though part of me wants to go and work out how close they'd have to be for less than 400 miles to make that big a difference in relative time. And how the ship can be that close and not be shredded by tidal forces.

Yeah, I'm wondering what things are like in the lift, how long subjectively did it take for the protocybermen in the lift to get from the bottom of the ship to the top and back again? Given that Billy had a fist sized hole in her chest and probably had less than a minute to live.

Plus if the difference between the bottom and top of the ship was thousands of fold wouldn't people be dying by their heads running at a significantly different rate to their legs?

Probably best to just accept the effect without thinking exactly how it's working.

Kip Thorne said when he was the science advisor of Interstellar that the way to get huge time dilations without huge tidal forces is to have a huge black hole that is spinning really fast (if I remember correctly, the one in interstellar was larger than any known black hole at the time). Although we've since seen that the time dilation factor in this story is inconsistent from scene to scene, so that would make it even more difficult to reconcile. Maybe the ship is in an elliptical orbit or something.

[jwl]

^Actually it turns out that Interstellar's black hole is not that big, but it's still significantly bigger than, say, Sagittarius A*.