General Police Abuse Thread

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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Flagg wrote:Oh I'm sorry, did you not see the concession?
Why do you think I care about such things? I do what I want. Never forget this.
HELLO, WE CARE. IF HE CONCEDES, YOU DROP IT. YOU DO NOT GLOAT, YOU DO NOT GET COCKY. YOU POLITELY ACCEPT HIS CONCESSION AND GET ON WITH THINGS.
AND, Since you want to "do what you want", maybe you WANT to leave this thread and not post in it for FIVE (5) Days.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Napoleon the Clown wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:First of all, apples to oranges comparisons.
Violence against EMS practitioners takes many forms. Most acts of violence are less than deadly. The risk of non-fatal assault resulting in lost work time among EMS workers is 0.6 cases per 100 workers a year; the national average is about 1.8 per 10,000 workers. Thus the relative risk of non-fatal assault for EMS workers is roughly 30 times higher than the national average. Over a five-year period during which 91 line-of-duty fatalities were identified, 10 (9%) were violence-related.1 The relative risk of fatal assaults for EMS workers is about three times higher than the national average.

The National Association of Emergency Medical Technicians (NAEMT) found four in five medics have experienced some form of injury as a result of the job. The majority, 52%, claimed to have been injured by assault. More than 20% ranked personal safety as a primary concern.2 Yet this issue is not widely discussed and not considered a priority by EMS executives, researchers, educators or practitioners. This attitude lies in stark contrast to those of our law enforcement and fire suppression colleagues, whose culture, training, equipment selection and daily activities focus first on survival. “Everybody goes home intact at the end of the shift” is deeply ingrained in the culture of the police and fire communities.

A majority (54%) of respondents to a recent survey of rural EMS practitioners reported they had not received any employer-sponsored training on dealing with potentially violent situations, although 25% said they had been physically assaulted while performing their duties.3 A study in Australia found that rural ambulance officers reported nearly twice the instances of violent encounters as their urban counterparts.4 Recent articles, papers and programs in Canada,5 the United Kingdom,6 France7 and Australia8 address this issue in a variety of ways and demonstrate that it’s a universal phenomenon.
Here you are quoting injuries and comparing them to deaths. Almost by-definition, EMS is going to deal with agitated crazy people, addled drug addicts, disoriented people. They get assaulted (hence the stipulation I made about drugged and insane people), and yeah, they *are* trained to deal with that. It is just not training in "how to react to assault", it is "how to deal with a crazy person". Though they often don't get the professional development post-hiring training that they should get, and that good police departments get. So there is that.

Now, lets take a look at injuries delivered to police.

https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/poli ... s-2014.htm

Non-fatal injuries among police forces strictly due to violence occured at a rate of 131.05 per 10k officers, double that of EMS workers, and 60 times the national average. Fatal injuries are much higher. There are approximately 840k EMS workers in the US, in a five year period there were 91 deaths, for a rate of fatal injury of approximately 18.2 per year, or 2.16 per 100k per year, distributed across all possible causes. For police, the rate is 13.5 per 100k, spread across all possible causes. Violence alone is 55.7% of that, or 7.5 per 100k per year.

If you think you can school me with statistics, you are incorrect.
The 2014 statistics for officers killed is just over a tenth of the purported number of people killed by the police. Doesn't sound like police are at especially huge risk, to me.

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There are only 765 thousand sworn law enforcement officers in the US. There are, by contrast, 321.4 million people in the US. Risk of officer being murdered by suspects per year: 7.5 per 100k, risk of being killed by an officer (justified or not) in the US according to your own fucking numbers is .3 per 100k per year.
Snipping the stuff where we pretty much agree.

My point with EMS/EMT stats is that they have a dangerous job, too. Not that they're as at high a risk as police.

Regarding the police killed vs civilians killed: Per police/civilian interaction, more civilians are killed than police. It is more likely that a cop will shoot you than you will shoot him during an interaction. (I will note I don't especially trust the 1000+ figure to be terribly accurate. I expect the actual number is somewhere south of that. But not by a full order of magnitude.)


I acquiesce to what LadyTevar has said, so this is a "get back on the response" reply, not one made where I'm expecting immediate response. Context suggests Tevar's "take a break" suggests to me that it's more directed at AD/Flagg interactions, but I fully respect any and all mod discretion on the matter.

I actually can come back. Tev and I talked.

Your logic with respect to per-police-civilian interactions does not make much sense.

You are not taking into account the percentage of those shootings by police that are absolutely justified. There are not good statistics for this, but basically you are committing a categorical fallacy, assuming that you can lump two things that you really can't. Shootings of Innocent People, and shootings of People Trying to Kill an Officer or Someone Else. Actually, you are doing it in two ways, because there are several different types of interactions with police. You have traffic stops, arrest attempts, serving search warrants etc. Some of these are more dangerous than others for obvious reasons. So that is problem 1.

Problem 2, is that while the number of encounters with police is equal on both sides of the equation, it is split into two very different pools. Police being a very small number, and the number of people they interact with (in their professional capacity) being a much larger number. The problem is, per-officer-per-stop is a bad way of determining relative risk. It is lifetime risk you need to concern yourself with.

840k vs 62.9 million (in 2011 admittedly, but lets assume the actual number is close from year to year for illustrative purposes), assume 1000 civilian deaths is the average, and also assume that the average number of police killed per year is about 60ish, and that each person is only ever stopped once.

1000/62.9million= 0.00159% chance assuming a uniform probability distribution (which is a bad assumption for the reasons given above)
60/62.9 million=0.000095%, but that is not the officer's actual annual risk (or even a close approximation), because said officer interacts with an average of 74 people a year. When you account for that, the risk to an officer in any given year is .007%

At those rates, if they stay on the force for 25 years (retirement with pension in most areas), ~2 in 1000 will be killed. 62.9 million is 30ish% of the US driving population, so on average you might be stopped once every 3 years over a driving-life of perhaps 60 years, so you might be stopped...only 20 times in your entire life assuming that bad uniform distribution of probability. That means you have a .03% chance of being shot over your lifetime.

But again, the probability distribution is non-uniform in reality. Some of those police encounters are criminal encounters where the officer is trying to arrest someone after or during the commission of a crime, where the risk goes up considerably (on both sides of the equation), while average traffic stops...the risk is likely virtually nil (even for black people, the lifetime risk is really low, just not not virtually nil. Unacceptably high due to the disparity, but low)

And that is BEFORE we get into geographic clustering. For that though, I would need better data than I have available, an SQL database, ArcGIS, and a lot of patience.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Napoleon the Clown »

Yeah, you're right.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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KERA News
Study: White Dallas Police Officers Don't Use Force Disproportinately Against Minorities
By JUSTIN MARTIN • 3 HOURS AGO
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Dallas police officers sit on their motorcycles outside the Morton H. Meyerson Symphony Center on July 12, 2016 during a memorial service for five officers killed in the Dallas police ambush days earlier.
Dallas police officers sit on their motorcycles outside the Morton H. Meyerson Symphony Center on July 12, 2016 during a memorial service for five officers killed in the Dallas police ambush days earlier.
ELIZABETH MYONG / KERA NEWS SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR
Researchers in Texas and Florida have released a study on use-of-force incidents within the Dallas Police Department, and they found that white police officers in Dallas do not use force disproportionately against minorities.

Alex Piquero is a criminology professor with the University of Texas at Dallas. He co-authored the study published in the “American Journal of Public Health.”

Listen Listening...4:28 Listen to the KERA interview with Alex Piquero.
Interview Highlights: Alex Piquero…

…On defining use of force: “It goes from, basically, verbal commands to soft hand control to hard control to some sort of immediate weapon use, like a Taser. We did not look at deadly force shootings in these data — because they’re very rare in the Dallas Police Department.”

…On studying the Dallas Police Department, specifically: “One of the great things about the Dallas Police Department is that they are not only willing to share their data, but they also collect a level of data that makes things that haven’t been permissible in the past to study. For example, most people who study use of force focus on white and black. Fortunately in Dallas, we had information as well on Hispanic ethnicity.”

…On one key finding: “The narrative of white officers and minority citizens is not the norm. In fact, when you take into consideration other kinds of variables, most of those relationships actually fall apart. At least in the two-year period that we had access to, that’s excluding deadly force and police shootings, the data we had access to showed no clear pattern that white officers were targeting minorities.”

…On the public’s perception of police: “A lot of people’s information and their opinions are influenced by these horrific events that we see on cell phone videos. And that’s not to downplay or dismiss the really unfortunate events and the lives that have been lost, with respect to those incidences. But, that kind of information does fuel people’s opinions about what kinds of relationships and interactions police and citizens have.”

Alex Piquero is a criminology professor with the University of Texas at Dallas.
Dallas openly shares their data with universities, and the key findings is "Force used showed no clear pattern"
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Dallas is one of the better departments in the US. This does reinforce the importance of not generalizing US police.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by TheFeniX »

Could be an exception that proves the rule though. This article doesn't surprise me much, I used to post on a (gaming community) forum from about 2005 to 2011 that had a thread like this one. I butted heads constantly with a Dallas PD guy and he would post excerpts concerning the paperwork requirements, extra training (a lot of which concerned deescalation and not stereotyping because it was dangerous: both to the community and the cops), and general mentality of what it took to be a Dallas cop. He also complained a lot about dealing with cops out in the boonies who were lucky to know their ass from a hole in the ground on anything besides speeding tickets.

I felt bad because he would get blind-sided by other cops (it was an older community with a lot of retired and active military and LEOs... at the time, don't know about now) who would come in and say "we don't have anything like that."

Like my high school friend whose dad was HPD: he was routinely called out to the middle of nowhere to deal with "real" issues (murder, arson, etc) while the county and local cops might not even bother to show since the city cops were better funded and better trained.

But I think you are right in that stereotyping cops is dumb, just like nearly everywhere else. Fact is, as far as I can tell, your major issues are out in certain areas of the "sticks" where corruption is rampant due to remote locations (and I mean institutionalized corruption like in Kendleton or Fulshear and those areas where cops rob people on the side of the road under bullshit "civil forfeiture" laws) and larger institutions that are just broken due to size and/or history: LAPD, NYPD and even Houston just to name a few off-hand.

Not to say other large and small departments don't sweep shit under the rug, but the NYPD itself seems just broken. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of change on the horizon.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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ABC News wrote:Justine Damond: Policeman who shot Australian woman dead had two years' experience

Officer Mohamed Noor shot the 40-year-old bride-to-be more than once from the passenger seat of his police vehicle.

Ms Damond called police just before midnight on Saturday after hearing a possible assault taking place in an alley behind her Minneapolis home.

She was in her pyjamas when she approached Noor's police vehicle.

Mr Noor, the first Somali-American officer at Minneapolis' 5th Precinct, was in the passenger seat and fired multiple times across his partner at Ms Damond, Minneapolis TV station KSTP reported.

A mobile phone was reportedly found near Ms Damond's body.

The moments immediately after the shooting were recorded over police radio.

One of the officers told dispatch that shots had been fired and asked for medical assistance.

"Shots fired. Can we get EMS Code 3 to Washburn and 51st Street. We have one down."

A Code 3 is a call for vehicles to respond using their lights and sirens.

The officer told dispatch they were starting CPR on the victim, before adding: "There are no suspects at large".

The officer then asked where their back-up was, to which the dispatcher responded: "EMS is coming, rescue is coming."

The dispatcher confirmed police had heard the sound of shots being fired in the west, and two shots had been heard in the east.

Another officer then said: "We heard those sounds from the station, those were probably aerial fireworks.

Police officer facing two other complaints

Mr Noor was sued earlier this year after a May 25 incident in which he and other officers took a woman to the hospital on a mental health hold.

The lawsuit claims Mr Noor and the other officers violated the woman's rights when they entered her home without her permission and Mr Noor grabbed her wrist and upper arm.

Mr Noor relaxed his grip when the woman said she had a previous shoulder injury, the lawsuit says.

Television station KSTP reported that city records show Mr Noor had three complaints on file.

The station did not provide details on the nature of the complaints but said one was dismissed with no disciplinary action, while the other two were pending.

"Officer Mohamed Noor extends his condolences to the family and anyone else who has been touched by this event," his attorney Tom Plunkett said in a statement.

"He takes their loss seriously and keeps them in his daily thoughts and prayers.

"The current environment for police is difficult, but Officer Noor accepts this as part of his calling.

"We would like to say more, and will in the future.

"At this time, however, there are several investigations ongoing and Officer Noor wants to respect the privacy to the family and asks the same in return during this difficult period."

The shooting has shattered Ms Damond's family and friends in Australia and the US and outraged residents of Minneapolis and adjoining St Paul who are still reeling from other high-profile police shootings.

Ms Damond's American fiance Don Damond thanked family and friends around the world "for the amazing outpouring of love and support".

"Our hearts are broken and we are utterly devastated by the loss of Justine," Mr Damond said.

External investigation into shooting 'expedited'

Ms Damond's death from a police gun has also generated widespread media coverage across the US.

Officer Noor and his partner's body cameras were not turned on and their police car dashboard camera did not capture the incident.

It is not clear why the officers' body cameras were not turned on.

The department phased in body cameras for all of its officers over the last year.

Department policy allows for a range of situations in which officers are supposed to turn cameras on, including "any contact involving criminal activity" and before use of force.

If a body camera is not turned on before use of force, it is supposed to be turned on as soon as it is safe to do so.

Once the investigation is complete, Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman will decide whether to charge the officer.

Mr Freeman would not comment on the broader case, but said both officers likely should have turned on their body cameras as they were approached by Ms Damond in an alley.

In a short statement, Minnesota Police Chief Janee Harteau described the death as "tragic".

"I understand why so many people have so many questions at this point," the statement said.

"I have many of the same questions and it is why we immediately asked for an external and independent investigation into the officer-involved shooting death.

"I've asked for the investigation to be expedited to provide transparency and to answer as many questions as quickly as we can".

Ms Damond's death is being investigated by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, not the Minneapolis Police Department.

Officer Noor and his partner are on paid administrative leave.

At least 524 people fatally shot by police in US this year

The American Civil Liberties Union said the officers should face penalties for making the truth harder to find.

Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges said she has "a lot of questions why the body cameras were not on".

"I know many of you are frustrated at the pace of information being released around Saturday night's shooting," she wrote in a Monday Facebook post. "I am too."

The Washington Post reported Ms Damond was one of at least 524 people fatally shot by police in the US this year and the fifth in Minnesota.

The Minneapolis-St Paul area is still reeling from the acquittal last month of a police officer who shot dead a man, Philando Castile, during a traffic stop while Castile's girlfriend live streamed the horrifying incident.

Violent protests also flared after two officers fatally shot 24-year-old Jamar Clark in 2015 and were not charged.
People in Australia are quite upset over this.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Highlord Laan »

They're not the only ones upset. Especially since the trigger happy fucker in question just happened to have his camera off.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Agent Fisher »

Both officers in the vehicle had their caneras off. Which isn't strange. They're rolling up to a scene, haven't got out of the vehicle yet, just scooping it out. It appeared the department issues Axon Body cameras which mount on the front of the uniform and point forward. Even if they were on, all we'd see is the dash of the vehicle and then the officer shooting to the left, over his partner. We probably wouldn't have audio till after the shot was fired. I've used an Axon Flex camera for the past four years and even I forgot to turn it on at times or have it turned off between calls and incidents to save battery life.

As to the actual shooting? I'm confused as fuck about it. Especially since the partner apparently didn't even have his weapon drawn at the time of the shooting, from coverage I saw on NBC.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Elheru Aran »

Agent Fisher wrote: 2017-07-19 10:40am As to the actual shooting? I'm confused as fuck about it. Especially since the partner apparently didn't even have his weapon drawn at the time of the shooting, from coverage I saw on NBC.
From the description, it sounds like the shooter actually drew and fired right in FRONT of the other officer, through the police car door.

I mean, what the living fuck? Who the hell does that?

At least those cops that shot that kid (damn if I can remember his name) with a toy gun got out of the car first...
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Flagg »

Well Seattle cops just shot a pregnant woman in front of her 1 year old. Why not use a TAZER? Battery ran out and they didn't bother charging it. Of course it's virtually impossible to prosecute murderers in uniform in WA because you literally cannot charge them with any type of negligent homicide as they must act with "Evil and malicious intent". So hey, we must protect the police and their precious rights, but pregnant black women? Fuck 'em.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Independent wrote:Video from Baltimore Police Department body cameras shows an officer tampering with evidence in a case that sent a man to jail for more than five months, reports have claimed.

The Baltimore Sun’s Justin Fenton recently shared a 90-second video showing what appears to be three Baltimore Police officers standing on a street corner. The camera follows one officer as he walks into an alleyway and places what appears to be a bag of drugs in a trash heap.

He then goes back to the street, stands for several seconds, and returns to the alleyway. He removes the bag from the same trash heap and brandishes it in front of the camera.

Police startled by ‘loud sound’ before shooting Australian bride-to-be
Baltimore Police Department body cameras record and preserve footage from the last 30 seconds before they are activated, according to the department's body-worn camera policy.

Fox Baltimore reports that a man was arrested in January on drug charges connected to this video. Mr Fenton claims the man was held for months on a $50,000 bail that he could not afford.

According to Fox Baltimore, the man’s trial was scheduled for last week. It was stalled, however, when a public defender found the video and send it to the prosecutor in the case.

In an email obtained by Fox Baltimore, the prosecutor writes: ”I’ve passed [the video] up and we are all appalled … something is going to happen because of this revelation.”

Footage shows officer placing drugs in trash; goes out to street, turns on camera, returns. Cams save 30 sec prior to activation, w/o sound

The charges were eventually dropped, but the officer in question was reportedly called in to testify on another case just one week later.

“[The prosecutors] had knowledge,” Public Defender Debbie Katz Levi told Fox Baltimore. “They watched it and were appalled by what was on the video, and then for whatever reason made the choice to continue to call him as a witness.”

The Baltimore Police Department said in a statement that they take the allegations “very seriously,” and have launched an internal investigation.

“We are fortunate to have Body Worn Cameras which provide a perspective of the events as reported,” the department said.

The Baltimore Police Department began rolling out body cameras to the majority of its officers in July of 2016. Officers are instructed to turn on their cameras during enforcement or investigative activities, emergency vehicle operation, custodial transports, or “other activities of a potentially confrontational nature”.

A 2016 Justice Department investigation of the Baltimore Police revealed at least one case of an officer planting drugs on a suspect. A fellow officer said he did not report the incident immediately for fear of retaliation.

That same year, the department settled a lawsuit with a man who accused the department of orchestrating a bogus drug bust at his home.

The city was also the site of riots last spring, when a young, black man named Freddie Gray died in police custody. All charges against the officers involved were eventually dropped.

The Independent has reached out to the Baltimore Police Department and the State’s Attorney's office for comment.
There but for the grace of an officer's ignorance goes corruption. This sort of thing is why I don't support 'I can turn it off anytime' cameras and camera policies.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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A dastardly ambush was being planned!
USA Today wrote:The attorney for a Minneapolis police officer whose partner fired a shot through the patrol car window that killed an Australian woman, said Wednesday that it was reasonable for the officers to have feared that they might be targets of an ambush.

The victim, Justine Damond, 40, an Australian meditation instructor who moved to the U.S. in 2015 to be with her fiance, had called 911 to report sounds of a woman screaming. She was unarmed and wearing pajamas when she approached the police car in the dark alley just before midnight.

Investigators say Officer Matthew Harrity, 25, who has been with the police department for a year, was driving the squad car and his partner, Officer Mohamed Noor, 31, a two-year veteran of the force who fired the fatal shot, was seated on the passenger side.

Harrity’s attorney Fred Bruno told the Star Tribune “it’s certainly reasonable” to assume any officer would be concerned about an ambush. He referenced the recent death of a New York City officer killed in her squad car.

Investigators say the officers were driving with all squad lights off through the alley behind Damond's home when the shooting occurred.

As they reached West 51st Street, Harrity, according to the police department's Bureau of Criminal Apprehension (BCA), "indicated that he was startled by a loud sound near the squad." Immediately afterward, Damond approached the driver’s side window of the vehicle.

Harrity told agents that Noor fired his weapon, striking Damond through the open driver’s side window. The officers immediately left the squad car and provided medical attention, but Damond died at the scene of a single gunshot wound to the abdomen.

Police said neither the officers' body cams nor the dash cam on the car were working. Both officers have been placed on paid administrative leave pending an investigation.

Noor, a Somali-American, has declined to be interviewed by BCA agents. The bureau says it cannot legally compel the testimony of either officer.

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office has ruled the death a homicide, a finding that does not necessarily mean charges will be filed in the case.

A transcript of Damond's 911 calls shows she reported a woman screaming.

"Hi, I’m, I can hear someone out the back and I, I’m not sure if she’s having sex or being raped" Damond tells the dispatcher.

Asked if she can hear the woman screaming, Damond replies: "Yeah. It sounds like sex noises, but it’s been going on for a while and I think she tried to say help and it sounds distressed." The dispatcher says police are already on the way.

Eight minutes later, Damond calls back to say that the police haven't shown up yet.

— Operator: You’re hearing a female screaming?

— Caller: Yes, along behind the house.

— Operator: Yup, officers are on the way there.

— Caller: Thank you.

Moments later, the squad car with Harrity and Noor arrives in the alley.

Investigators are looking for witnesses to the incident, including a young male bicyclist they say stopped and watched officers give medical assistance, the Star-Tribune reports.

On Tuesday evening, Mayor Betsy Hodges, Assistant Police Chief Medaria Arradondo and City Council Member Linea Palmisano, spoke to reporters, including members of the foreign media, to say they are still limited by the ongoing investigation.

“We do have more information, though it’s frustrating to have some of the picture but not all of it,” Hodges said.

“We cannot compel Officer Noor to make a statement; I wish we could,” she said, quickly clarifying: “I wish that he would make a statement.”

In Australia, Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull weighed in on the issue Wednesday, calling the fatal shooting "shocking" and "inexplicable." He said his consulate-general in Chicago is seeking answers from U.S. authorities, Reuters reported.

"How can a woman out in the street in her pajamas seeking assistance be shot like that?" the prime minister asked in an interview with Nine Network, an Australian TV station. "It is a shocking killing, and yes, we are demanding answers on behalf of her family."

The Australian media has likewise expressed dismay over the shooting and Damond's father pleaded Tuesday for "the light of justice" in the case.

"We thought yesterday was our worst nightmare but we awoke to the ugly truth and it hurt even more," said John Ruszczyk, Damond's father, who lives in Harbord, Australia.

"Justine, our daughter, was so special to us and to so many others," he said, according to The Sydney Morning Herald.

The headline on a story in the The Daily Telegraph of Sydney read, "American Nightmare," while The Courier Mail topped its article with, "Shot dead in her pyjamas, Why on earth did U.S. cops kill Aussie who called for help?"

The incident has also raised concerns of a possible backlash within Minneapolis' large Somali-American community. On Tuesday, according to the Star-Tribune, a Minneapolis Somali-American police officer anonymously spoke on behalf of himself and eight Somali-American colleagues, expressing both condolences to the victim's family, as well as fear for members of his community.

“We can’t imagine the pain and suffering the victim’s family is going through and our hearts go out to them,” he said, adding the media has been staking out the homes of some of the officers.

“This is scaring our families," he said, according to the newspaper. "It’s difficult to deal with some media groups going to other Somali officers’ houses who are not involved in this shooting. It makes it hard to do this job when you’re worried about your family.”

The shooting came just weeks after Jeronimo Yanez, a former St. Anthony, Minn., police officer, was acquitted in the fatal shooting of Philando Castile, an African-American. Two years ago, a pair of Minneapolis police officers were not charged after shooting and killing Jamar Clark during a scuffle.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by TheFeniX »

White Haven wrote: 2017-07-19 10:08pmThere but for the grace of an officer's ignorance goes corruption. This sort of thing is why I don't support 'I can turn it off anytime' cameras and camera policies.
In an NBC article I found the following:
Davis and Deputy Police Commissioner Jason Johnson suggested that it implied that they were re-enacting the recovery of drugs for the body camera — which is also inappropriate, Davis said.
This forums needs a facepalm emote.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Flagg »

Call it what it is Gandalf, it's the "Sorry, I'm a coward with a gun!" defense. Works every time.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Gandalf »

Flagg wrote: 2017-07-20 02:00amCall it what it is Gandalf, it's the "Sorry, I'm a coward with a gun!" defense. Works every time.
I knew American police were scared of most minorities. I did not know that this extended to Australians, especially those wearing that scariest of outfits; pyjamas. Comfortable sleepwear is the new hoodie.

Interestingly, this has been the top news story each day since it happened. People in Australia are really fucking angry, especially since it looks like the Magical Blue Wall is at full power. A joke circulating is along the lines of "Come to America for the scenery, stay because you got shot for no reason."
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

- A.B. Original, Report to the Mist

"I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Flagg wrote: 2017-07-19 02:10pm Well Seattle cops just shot a pregnant woman in front of her 1 year old. Why not use a TAZER? Battery ran out and they didn't bother charging it. Of course it's virtually impossible to prosecute murderers in uniform in WA because you literally cannot charge them with any type of negligent homicide as they must act with "Evil and malicious intent". So hey, we must protect the police and their precious rights, but pregnant black women? Fuck 'em.
The shooting that you are referring to took place on June 18th. She was shot from 5ft away and was armed with a knife. A taser, even if charged would be completely inappropriate for such a situation - however, neither officer had a taser they both had pepper spray and a baton which are also inappropriate weapons. Knives are more than capable of inflicting serious physical harm which is considered under Washington State law as justification for the use of deadly force.
Gandalf wrote: 2017-07-20 02:20am I knew American police were scared of most minorities. I did not know that this extended to Australians, especially those wearing that scariest of outfits; pyjamas. Comfortable sleepwear is the new hoodie.
That's news to me. How have you determined that american police are scared of most minorities?
Interestingly, this has been the top news story each day since it happened. People in Australia are really fucking angry, especially since it looks like the Magical Blue Wall is at full power. A joke circulating is along the lines of "Come to America for the scenery, stay because you got shot for no reason."
In what way is the magical blue wall in full power here?
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: 2017-07-20 02:25amThat's news to me. How have you determined that american police are scared of most minorities?
Mostly the news. Stuff in this thread.

Also, a lot of contact with fellow minorities abroad, because transnational comparison is pretty big right now in academic circles.
In what way is the magical blue wall in full power here?
I said "looks like," because all we've seen since this happened is the mayor repeatedly stating that apparently she can't do a thing, that Noor has a spotty record, "lol we both forgot to turn on our accountability cameras," and that he's on paid leave. Why the fuck should I ever trust anything that they're say, especially when "ambush!" is being touted as a defence?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
Electric shocking body rocking beat streeting me to death"

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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Gandalf wrote: 2017-07-20 03:07am
Mostly the news. Stuff in this thread.

Also, a lot of contact with fellow minorities abroad, because transnational comparison is pretty big right now in academic circles.
So no facts basically. I mean I would be just as accurate if I said that a scared minority just murdered an unarmed white woman. That leaves a disgusting taste though and for good reason.

I said "looks like," because all we've seen since this happened is the mayor repeatedly stating that apparently she can't do a thing, that Noor has a spotty record, "lol we both forgot to turn on our accountability cameras," and that he's on paid leave. Why the fuck should I ever trust anything that they're say, especially when "ambush!" is being touted as a defence?
The mayor can't do anything. She is not a criminal investigator She is not a prosecutor. When she says there is nothing she can do she is absolutely correct.

I didn't know being transparent about an officers displinary record was considered blue wall behavior. Good to know. I'll make another prediction. If justice is served people will claim racism. Though I can't say that the justice system doesn't have that coming.

Paid leave is a matter of city policy. They have no choice - not blue wall behavior.

Failure to turn on their cameras. Ok that could be blue wall behavior but it could also mean that both were caught off guard but only one acted very rashly.

An attorney doing his job, no matter how slimy, is not blue wall behavior. I'm starting to think you dont actually know what that is.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Flagg »

Gandalf wrote: 2017-07-20 02:20am
Flagg wrote: 2017-07-20 02:00amCall it what it is Gandalf, it's the "Sorry, I'm a coward with a gun!" defense. Works every time.
I knew American police were scared of most minorities. I did not know that this extended to Australians, especially those wearing that scariest of outfits; pyjamas. Comfortable sleepwear is the new hoodie.

Interestingly, this has been the top news story each day since it happened. People in Australia are really fucking angry, especially since it looks like the Magical Blue Wall is at full power. A joke circulating is along the lines of "Come to America for the scenery, stay because you got shot for no reason."
It's just a coward with a gun, dude. That's mostly a protected class unless the coward shoots a white person and is a minority. If the coward with a gun is a cop, forget it.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Flagg »

Kamakazie Sith wrote: 2017-07-20 02:25am
Flagg wrote: 2017-07-19 02:10pm Well Seattle cops just shot a pregnant woman in front of her 1 year old. Why not use a TAZER? Battery ran out and they didn't bother charging it. Of course it's virtually impossible to prosecute murderers in uniform in WA because you literally cannot charge them with any type of negligent homicide as they must act with "Evil and malicious intent". So hey, we must protect the police and their precious rights, but pregnant black women? Fuck 'em.
The shooting that you are referring to took place on June 18th. She was shot from 5ft away and was armed with a knife. A taser, even if charged would be completely inappropriate for such a situation - however, neither officer had a taser they both had pepper spray and a baton which are also inappropriate weapons. Knives are more than capable of inflicting serious physical harm which is considered under Washington State law as justification for the use of deadly force.
Allegedly armed with a knife according to the negligent police who blew her away and couldn't be bothered to charge a TASER. And WA state law makes it virtually impossible to prosecute cops for homicide, so they have a license to kill as long as (or they can make it appear as) they had no "evil intent or malice". Keep up. Don't ever forget to.
:lol:
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Flagg »

You are right though. A little over a month ago is too far in the past to worry about when there are so many cases of police blowing away minorities for no reason other than "I was a'scared" this month. I mean police get a call of a woman screaming and an unarmed woman comes running to a responding cruiser screaming!? It's a NIGGER JIHADI ILLEGALS AMBUSH!!! :lol:

Frankly the fact that the Cowardly Cop in question left the scene without being disarmed and handcuffed is enough of a blue wall for any reasonable person. But reason no longer applies in America if it ever did.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: 2017-07-20 03:41am Paid leave is a matter of city policy. They have no choice - not blue wall behavior.
"It's city policy, not blue wall behavior" is pretty specious argument when city policy on the subject of how police officers are treated when under investigation is largely determined by negotiation with the police officer's union.
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: 2017-07-20 03:41amSo no facts basically.
Well, those news article tend to report facts, like this neat study. Or this one. Also this. They all outline disproportionate rate at which black men are shot, the Guardian article going into other minorities as well. Combined with the usual racism seen in US society and often reflected in its more powerful classes, we put two and two together.
The mayor can't do anything. She is not a criminal investigator She is not a prosecutor. When she says there is nothing she can do she is absolutely correct.

I didn't know being transparent about an officers displinary record was considered blue wall behavior. Good to know. I'll make another prediction. If justice is served people will claim racism. Though I can't say that the justice system doesn't have that coming.

Paid leave is a matter of city policy. They have no choice - not blue wall behavior.

Failure to turn on their cameras. Ok that could be blue wall behavior but it could also mean that both were caught off guard but only one acted very rashly.

An attorney doing his job, no matter how slimy, is not blue wall behavior. I'm starting to think you dont actually know what that is.
Yes, and from Australia they look like ridiculous systemic protections. Do they not form a protective barrier, like a wall? Though others have addressed this better.
Flagg wrote: 2017-07-20 10:26amIt's just a coward with a gun, dude. That's mostly a protected class unless the coward shoots a white person and is a minority. If the coward with a gun is a cop, forget it.
Yeah, this will prove an interesting challenge for the system of police protection. Maybe if Damond had one of those "I donate to the police" cards, she might still have been alive?
"Oh no, oh yeah, tell me how can it be so fair
That we dying younger hiding from the police man over there
Just for breathing in the air they wanna leave me in the chair
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Re: General Police Abuse Thread

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Flagg wrote: 2017-07-20 10:34am Allegedly armed with a knife according to the negligent police who blew her away and couldn't be bothered to charge a TASER. And WA state law makes it virtually impossible to prosecute cops for homicide, so they have a license to kill as long as (or they can make it appear as) they had no "evil intent or malice". Keep up. Don't ever forget to.
:lol:
It's amusing that you're telling me to keep up yet you somehow missed in my response to you that those officers DID NOT HAVE TASERS. So, when you respond to me with nonsense like "couldn't be bothered to charge a taser" while directly quoting my post that tells me that your head if firmly shoved up your ass. Maybe we should skip to the part where you give a bullshit concession?

Also, dummy. Tasers aren't charged. They have a battery. Think of it like a magazine. The battery stays in the taser until it runs low (about 10%) and then the battery is replaced. Nobody charges a taser because it doesn't work that way. So, when you say silly stuff like "charge a taser" you're showing how deeply ignorant you are and why nobody should take you seriously in these discussions.
Flagg wrote: 2017-07-20 10:47am You are right though. A little over a month ago is too far in the past to worry about when there are so many cases of police blowing away minorities for no reason other than "I was a'scared" this month. I mean police get a call of a woman screaming and an unarmed woman comes running to a responding cruiser screaming!? It's a NIGGER JIHADI ILLEGALS AMBUSH!!! :lol:

Frankly the fact that the Cowardly Cop in question left the scene without being disarmed and handcuffed is enough of a blue wall for any reasonable person. But reason no longer applies in America if it ever did.
Aww, you get corrected and now you feel like you have to lie. Just because you were corrected on factual information doesn't mean you get to come back and lie about my motivations. I never implied in any way that the time lapse had anything to do with the importance of the incident in question. You're just wrong about it on multiple levels.

Though I do agree that disarming him and taking him away in handcuffs would probably be appropriate for this and many other incidents it is still not blue wall. You know cops lying, hiding evidence, etc to protect other cops.
Terralthra wrote: 2017-07-20 07:56pm "It's city policy, not blue wall behavior" is pretty specious argument when city policy on the subject of how police officers are treated when under investigation is largely determined by negotiation with the police officer's union.


No, it's not. Even if you were able to show us that city employees other than the police would be suspended without pay while under investigation it still would not be blue wall actions because the blue wall is defined as other police officers engaging in illegal activity to cover the crimes of another. Hopefully you're not being a hypocrite here and believe that all employees should be suspended without pay when under investigation.
Gandalf wrote: 2017-07-20 08:54pm
Well, those news article tend to report facts, like this neat study. Or this one. Also this. They all outline disproportionate rate at which black men are shot, the Guardian article going into other minorities as well. Combined with the usual racism seen in US society and often reflected in its more powerful classes, we put two and two together.
Gandalf, I engaged you because you made the claim that "american police are scared of minorities". The evidence you are showing here supports a claim that minorities are shot at a higher rate and that racism is likely the cause.

What you are doing is not putting two and two together. You are adding your own bigoted conclusion.
Yes, and from Australia they look like ridiculous systemic protections. Do they not form a protective barrier, like a wall? Though others have addressed this better.
Let's revisit your claims to see if they hold up.

The mayor has no power to investigate any citizen or other employee, period. So your observation that the mayor is repeatedly stating she can't do anything is absolutely not blue wall.

Noor having a spotty record. That could be. I mean as long as those violations were serious and deserve termination or demonstrated that he was incompetent.

Both forgetting to turn on their cameras. It could be but what did the other officer say about this? Talk about jumping to conclusions here. Calling him a liar before you even hear his statement. Glad you're not in charge.

Paid leave could be if you can show me that other city employees do not get paid leave if under investigation.

You claiming that the lawyer statement is blue wall. Do you even know what the fuck lawyers job is man? I can't believe you seriously put that in your post to support your blue wall claim. What's next? His right to remain silent is also blue wall behavior?
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