Go see Valerian

[Adam Reynolds]

If you are the type of person who likes imaginative science fiction, seriously go and see this movie. There are more interesting ideas in this one movie than in a dozen others. While the moderately positive reviews are correct in that the narrative and characterization are a little weak, this is more than offset by excellent overall worldbuilding and a solid dozen fascinating ideas. Each of which could easily carry their own movie.

My favorite example is the shopping mall in a different dimension, which is probably the most interesting set piece, but the film is just plain interesting with all sorts of random ideas like this. Which in a way is the cause of the narrative flaw, that there are too many ideas and so they are often connected somewhat poorly.

[Q99]

The reviews I'm seeing all say the technology and setting is great... the characters and actors less so. So, yea, kinda torn on this one.

[K. A. Pital]

It is a Luc Besson film. As always, a little rough, but certainly not lacking in originality or imagination - unlike many other sci-fi "rebootosequels" which flood the market like bad fast food.

[Steve]

I have to add my voice to those saying "Go see Valerian". The visuals, the world-elements, they're all stunning, although the characters can be archetypical.

[The Romulan Republic]

Archetypal characters is alright, if they're archetypes that appeal to me and the actors have enough talent and presence to pull them off.

Flimsy plots, sadly, are just par for the course with Hollywood SF, so nothing new there.

Nothing sufficiently brilliant world-build and production can't overcome. Though if the acting is sub-par as well, that could really hurt it.

Still, its on my summer movie list already.

[Zixinus]

There was a cartoon show too, which was pretty senseless but fairly fun. The comics were very adventure-heavy but struggled when trying to make greater, less-random arcs.

[Q99]

Ok, I like Jupiter Ascending a lot. How does it compare to that one, another 'great setting SF flick with some drawbacks'?

[Meest]

Can see all the influences it had on modern scifi, but it also had all the bad Lucas style stuff. Bad dialogue and cheesiness, and was just disjointed, they tried to do too much and sacrificed plot and character development.

[JLTucker]

It did not do well at the box office. $17m. That's unfortunate.

[Galvatron]

It is a Luc Besson film. As always, a little rough, but certainly not lacking in originality or imagination - unlike many other sci-fi "rebootosequels" which flood the market like bad fast food.

Is it goofy like The Fifth Element?

[Q99]

It did not do well at the box office. $17m. That's unfortunate.

Though I understand it is not reliant on the US take due to a number of deals made. It should be interesting to see how it does in France.

[Adam Reynolds]

Is it goofy like The Fifth Element?

There are a few parts that are, but not to the same degree. It feels a bit more mainstream in this respect. Though something to be said against it is that the lead is certainly no Bruce Willis, whose natural charm really helped The Fifth Element and who was easily more believable in the action roles. The female lead is generally better, but still not quite as good as Milla Jovovich in the role, even though both are former models.

Though for the main criticism I actually think it had the same underlying flaw as Interstellar. While they are very different films, they had the same problem in that that spectacle eclipsed storytelling. While I loved the spectacle here much more than there, I suspect that this will likely fall into the same cult hit status as The Fifth Element as a result. There wasn't really anyone to connect to, and the ideas were never totally explored long enough for you to seriously delve into any one of them. The marketplace chase stands out because it was generally better executed in this respect, but several other elements are as problematic as they are effective. The dual arcs in which Lauraline rescues Valerian and the inverse is a major example.

I know this sounds like I am attacking the movie that I had previously recommended so strongly, but I suppose having reflected on it for the last few days has changed my opinion somewhat. I would still strongly recommend seeing in on the strength of its ideas, but don't expect great storytelling.

[Shroom Man 777]

Spoiler

I really dug final throwdown sequence with the not-triggerhappy space troops, the commentary on drone warfare AND how this is happening around the aliens' adopted home which happens to be relics of Space Age optimism (the first scene of the movie showed the US-USSR ships' docking = a symbol of cooperation and co-existence).

[Rhadamantus]

From reports, it looks like it's going to be a bomb. Might still be good, though.

[bilateralrope]

I saw this thread and thought the movie sounded interesting, so I searched for a trailer on Youtube. It looked interesting. Pity it doesn't show in my country until August 10.

Then Youtube started showing a shorter ad for it in front of videos. An ad that made me lose interest in it, especially when it had a line about being the 3D event of the year. I can't remember the last time a movie pushed 3D beyond saying that it's in 3D.

[The Romulan Republic]

Saw this yesterday, and was distinctly disappointed. Honestly, I more than half think that my money would have been better spent on a second viewing of Wonder Woman, or seeing some other new movie, and saving this for when it was on DVD.

The world-building and effects were... okay, but nothing extraordinary to me. The music was forgettable, aside from the song they chose for the opening montage, and the performances mostly mediocre to poor.

The opening was interesting. Spoiler

At first I thought I might have gone into the wrong theatre, but it worked out alright. It actually reminded me a lot of the opening to "Enterprise", only done better/with better music. The apocalypse on Mul was fairly effective as well.

The fantastical absurdity of some of the setting was a little reminiscent of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Beyond that, it largely felt like a Star Wars/"Star Trek" hybrid, with a bit of James Cameron's Avatar thrown in. I was initially hopeful for some nice, optimistic science fiction for a change, but the film kind of dropped the ball on that.

Unfortunately, the whole thing was dragged down painfully when Valerian and Lorelei showed up. Their performances were painfully stilted, their dialog as well. I remember basically thinking how peoples' reaction would be "God, we have to sit through a whole film with these people now?" Their whole "belligerent sexual tension" thing, with Valerian chasing Lorelei (in a manner that frankly amounted to sexual harassment of a co-worker) and her resisting (only to inevitably give in at the end), was a particularly painful cliché, executed particularly badly, that dragged the whole film down. It didn't help that Lorelei generally seemed to play second fiddle to Valerian, even when their was no need for her to. And that this was all played for laughs.

The actors got a bit better as the film went on, and the film sort of acknowledged, and had him acknowledge, that Valerian was a douche bag, but it was far too little, too late.

Their "romance", combined with some other things, particularly the completely gratuitous strip tease scene by a character who's pretty much confirmed to be an enslaved prostitute since childhood, left me feeling that this film was rather blatantly sexist. The token gestures in the other direction were not remotely enough to compensate. I felt that their was some ethnic stereotyping too, though it was neither as obvious nor as grating.

Of course, their was a pretty strong message against the exploitation and destruction of minorities and indigenous peoples, so I'll give them some credit for that, even if I think that it could have been much better-executed. The whole backstory and the main villain's plot gave me strong Avatar vibes. Even the aliens' appearance was a bit reminiscent of the Na'vi, or whatever they were called. A bit preachy, like Avatar, but not really badly done from what I recall.

Though I do find the cliché that indigenous/technologically primitive people are more in touch with nature, and generally more pure and noble, rather tiresome. For one thing, a "positive" stereotype is still a stereotype. In any case, their has never been a society which was pure or perfect or free from injustice, exploitation, and tyranny. People are people. We shouldn't have to pretend that exploited indigenous societies were some perfect utopia to acknowledge that their destruction is a terrible thing. It should be enough simply to acknowledge that they were people, with all the good and bad that that entails.

Of course, SF gives one a bit more latitude to design a fictional society as one sees fit, but since the metaphor/allegory was very obvious, I think discussing the real-world implications is more than fair.

I did like the General character (not the evil one). In these sorts of movies, you usually have the officials/regulations being mostly corrupt or useless, with the heroes going off and doing good by playing vigilante. Its part of the (particularly American) cultural tradition of distrust of authorities, but taken too far, it reinforces the kind of social attitudes that makes libertarian bullshit so popular, as well as lazy false equivalencies like "all politicians are corrupt" (which ultimately just discredit democratic institutions and legitimize the worst elements of politics by putting them on an even footing with the best, and encourage voters towards either apathy or extremism).

The film used those tropes to an extent, but it was nice to see them subvert it by making the main authority figure for the second half someone who was actually a relatively decent person, trying to do the right thing within the limits of his authority. It made the presentation a bit less simplistic. I'd like to see more characters like that. On a similar note, I liked that the villain was taken alive to face justice rather than simply being killed (especially since by the end, it was pretty much clear that he wanted the "death before dishonor" route). I like the idea that authorities and the law don't have to be broken and corrupt or useless, and I'd like to see more of that in popular culture.

I also liked that the film's ending demolished the "just following orders" excuse for military atrocities, however.

Their were... pieces of a good film here. But the sexism, and Valerian and Lorelei and their interactions in general, dragged the film down horribly. I'd be hard pressed to give it more than 2 out of 5, much as the few elements I did really like make me wish that I could.

[Q99]

Yea, I think I'm going to give it a pass, some of the flaws sound like dealbreakers to me, mostly character-wise.

[Adam Reynolds]

Even as the person who originally recommended it, all of what TRR says is more or less accurate. I loved the worldbuilding upon the first viewing, but even that really doesn't have any serious depth in the way something like The Expanse does with its properly thought out worldbuilding.

One random bit that really struck me as odd was Spoiler

When Lauraline was abducted by the fishermen, why was she not able to use the same power armor that Valerian had just used to break through walls and cruise around underwater? She appeared to be wearing the same thing.

[Shroom Man 777]

Even as the person who originally recommended it, all of what TRR says is more or less accurate. I loved the worldbuilding upon the first viewing, but even that really doesn't have any serious depth in the way something like The Expanse does with its properly thought out worldbuilding.

One random bit that really struck me as odd was Spoiler

When Lauraline was abducted by the fishermen, why was she not able to use the same power armor that Valerian had just used to break through walls and cruise around underwater? She appeared to be wearing the same thing.

Spoiler

Let's presume that those things run out of juice after plowing through an entire hemisphere of a station. Otherwise it'd be a mega-Plinkett/Red Letter Media of "but wwwwhhhhyyyyyy...."

[Adam Reynolds]

above spoilers all included. Spoiler

When Lauraline was abducted by the fishermen, why was she not able to use the same power armor that Valerian had just used to break through walls and cruise around underwater? She appeared to be wearing the same thing.

Let's presume that those things run out of juice after plowing through an entire hemisphere of a station. Otherwise it'd be a mega-Plinkett/Red Letter Media of "but wwwwhhhhyyyyyy...."

That was Valerian's suit. All Lauraline had done was stand around in a command center and put a jellyfish on her head. It is also odd that Valerian managed to shoot the guy who grabbed him while Lauraline did nothing in the same position, as well as that he obviously knew not to touch them but she didn't. Even if not intended this way it came across as extremely sexist.

[Shroom Man 777]

Spoiler

That was Valerian's suit. All Lauraline had done was stand around in a command center and put a jellyfish on her head. It is also odd that Valerian managed to shoot the guy who grabbed him while Lauraline did nothing in the same position, as well as that he obviously knew not to touch them but she didn't. Even if not intended this way it came across as extremely sexist.

Spoiler

Indeed. But I thought Laureline was wearing a similar suit as she plowed to Valerian's crash site...

[Q99]

Video on it's box office problems and why

[LadyTevar]

That was a pretty good breakdown of the problems with the film.

[K. A. Pital]

I found it a good traditional space opera, although the main plotline felt weak and the "inaccessible data" in the computer drew some laughs, all too fresh the memories about Obi Wan searching for Kamino.

It had more interesting ideas than plot, and the writing stumbled more than once. Tiny improvements could have made this a great space opera, but instead have to settle for "good".

Still it was a fun film, although the first half was better than the end.

[Alyrium Denryle]

A good review. Disclaimer, I am its co-author.

http://frigidreads.blogspot.com/2017/07 ... y-luc.html

My takeaway: " For my part, instead of giving this movie a grade, I would call it aggressively mediocre for “Immortan Joe Declaration” values thereof. The movie screamed “WITNESS ME!”, and that is my only response."