Doctor Who Christmas special trailer (here be spoilers).

[The Romulan Republic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCkDXegqjR0

Yay! Bill's back!

Normally I'd grumble more about Moffat trying to have his cake and eat it too with a Companion's departure, again, but God damn, Bill was wasted.

Also, a nice little tribute to Capaldi from the BBC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKYfSwTlM74

[Broomstick]

It felt like Capaldi's time as the Doctor was short but really quite a lot happened, and at three years it's pretty typical/average. I would have loved to have seen another season or two - on the other hand, it's probably better to go out on a high note rather than burned out on the role like Tom Baker.

Also, now I can look forward to a new version of the Doctor (here's hoping she's a good one).

[The Romulan Republic]

I haven't seen much featuring Jodie Whittaker, but everything I have heard about her makes me confident in her ability.

Its Chibnal, I suspect, who will make or break this (barring major executive interference).

[Joun_Lord]

I think I've said it before but it bears repeating (I'm sure I'm misusing or or misspelling that phrase) thats pretty much how I feel about it. Pretty much anyone can step into the role of the Doctor if they are halfway decent actor and make it work. The real question is if they are going to be given anything to work with. His episodes of Who were....okay. Torchwood was atleast in my opinion not very good even if it had its moments, it felt very juvenile and considering I'm a fairly juvenile person who still thinks toilet humor is funny I should find the constant sex jokes and robot sex machine boob cup Cyberwoman enjoyable but did not.

I still very much worry that the Doctor gender change will be used for titillation.

But I guess time will tell.

[SpottedKitty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCkDXegqjR0

Heh, every time I watch this I can't help laughing at the early 60s SFX, and the really obvious "snow" being blown onto the model set from a fan just barely out of camera shot.

I wonder, closer to the time, will there be a trailer showing Thirteen, even if just for a moment? Can't remember if it was done before, I usually don't remember the trailers for long.

And... did we see a little bit of Malcolm Tucker in the line "You trying to be funny?"

[The Romulan Republic]

I think I've said it before but it bears repeating (I'm sure I'm misusing or or misspelling that phrase) thats pretty much how I feel about it. Pretty much anyone can step into the role of the Doctor if they are halfway decent actor and make it work. The real question is if they are going to be given anything to work with. His episodes of Who were....okay. Torchwood was atleast in my opinion not very good even if it had its moments, it felt very juvenile and considering I'm a fairly juvenile person who still thinks toilet humor is funny I should find the constant sex jokes and robot sex machine boob cup Cyberwoman enjoyable but did not.

I still very much worry that the Doctor gender change will be used for titillation.

But I guess time will tell.

You know, on that note, it occurred to me today, and I think its very telling, that I don't think I've really seen anyone, ever, say a bad word about Jodie Whittaker herself, either as an individual or an actor. Every complaint about this choice that I've seen has boiled down to "she's a woman", or something to do with gender politics, or just "Its different so its ruined".

[Joun_Lord]

You know, on that note, it occurred to me today, and I think its very telling, that I don't think I've really seen anyone, ever, say a bad word about Jodie Whittaker herself, either as an individual or an actor. Every complaint about this choice that I've seen has boiled down to "she's a woman", or something to do with gender politics, or just "Its different so its ruined".

Well to be fair to the haters, one can dislike a casting without disliking the person being cast. Say if they cast Keanu Reeves to play Chekov is Star Trek 4, some people would dislike it despite Keanu being an all around amazing person. Some might say he doesn't fit the role, others might say its disrespectful to Anton Yelchin's memory, still others might think someone else is better for the role and all without having a bad word to say about Reeves. Or a real example, people against casting of Ildris Elba as Roland Deschain in the upcoming Dork Tower movie. While some is for sure about Elba's race, either because it changes the character or because it voids some of the existing plot points (like Roland looking like a mix of Stephen King and Clint Eastwood or the racial tension with Detta Walker) or because they don't think he is the right fit (and not just because of his race) generally except the hardcore racist trolls most people aren't saying anything bad about Elba as a person or actor.

Now mind you this isn't me defending the drama around the casting of Whittaker (or Elba), I personally do not agree with the reasons some might be against Whittaker (even if I do understand some of the reasons) but yeah I will say the reasons aren't anything against Whittaker personally or professionally which is something. Even if someone doesn't like the casting for whatever reason at they very least they can be mature enough to not attack the person being cast, I'm glad the Who audience is relatively mature enough to not stoop to that disgusting level.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yes, you could dislike a casting choice for many reasons. But I haven't heard anyone offer a reason why Whittaker is a poor choice, as opposed to why they think a female Doctor is a poor choice. That's my point.

It tells me that Whittaker is probably a damn good choice, if with all the uproar over her casting, nobody can find anything bad to say about her personally (and their definitely are some who would).

[Joun_Lord]

Well there is nothing really bad to be said about Whittaker because there is nothing wrong with her personally and professionally. She's a fine actress (atleast in what I've seen her in, though that amounts to one movie) who could easily play the role with her eyes closed. But she could still be a bad choice for the role (which I'm not personally saying she is, playing devils advocate for the "Doc remains a dood" crowd).

Thats like my examples of Reeves for Chekov or Elba for Roland, even a great actor could be considered a bad fit for a character by certain arguments. The argument that the Doctor is a guy, always has been a guy, and would remain a guy if not for "PC casting" is a bad argument I think personally but not an invalid one (I think personally that while changing characters can be bad if done for the wrong reasons the Doctor being a shapeshifting alien of a species whose gender roles are iffy as is, like I don't even think the Time Lords sexually reproduce but use some genetic loom, its not so outlandish they might take on a more feminine form) just because we disagree with it. Using that argument casting Whittaker is a bad choice no matter how great of an actress she might be just as casting Chris Pine as Diana Prince would be wrong or casting Vin Diesel as MLK would be absurd. There would be a fundamental clash between the actor and the character/person they are portraying.

Now again I think the argument of the Doctor having to stay one way is wrong (and I nominate myself the arbiter of truth in this situation thus this now stands as a fact, you may now update Wikipedia) considering the Doctor is all about change. He changes faces, changes height, changes weight, changes age, changes personality, changes fucking diet and musical ability, so I don't think its a stretch for him to become a her. But others might disagree despite that clearly being established as a fact now.

Though one thing you can count on Doctor Who fans to do is hate change. Thats not an insult to Whovians or anything but there is certainly a breaking in period for any change in the show be it new Doctor, new Companion, new writer, whatever. This is just slightly different from the usual changes.

[ray245]

I just find it a little strange that the first female Doctor is coming to the show after the 12th Doctor. Capaldi's Doctor is so aggressive and commanding that it may make the transition a little strange.

What kind of Doctor will the 13th Doctor be in terms of personality? I doubt they will make her as commanding as the 12th Doctor because that would mean she is just playing the 12th Doctor. At the same time, if they made her a "softer" Doctor than the 12th, people might see this as a gender prejudice and be trying to play on the stereotype of women being "softer" than guys. I'm just curious to find out how will they make the transition between the different Doctors.

The burden on Whittaker is going to be huge because she is effectively going to set the expectation for all female Doctor after her. She does give off a bit of an alien vibe in the short clip introducing her as the Doctor. Even the way she smiled is done in a rather mysterious manner as if we will never know why she smiled.

[Broomstick]

I just hope they don't start dressing her in high heels and cocktail gowns. Whittaker's Doctor should, like the Doctors before her, wear shoes practical for running, among other things. In fact, the way they dressed her in the promo is just fine and I hope they continue in a similar trend.

[ray245]

I just hope they don't start dressing her in high heels and cocktail gowns. Whittaker's Doctor should, like the Doctors before her, wear shoes practical for running, among other things. In fact, the way they dressed her in the promo is just fine and I hope they continue in a similar trend.

Well that does depend on the occasion, doesn't it? The various Doctors have often ended up wearing formal attires that are impractical for running from time to time.

[Hillary]

I just find it a little strange that the first female Doctor is coming to the show after the 12th Doctor. Capaldi's Doctor is so aggressive and commanding that it may make the transition a little strange.

You can argue that almost every incarnation has been a drastic departure from the last. Just look at the first 7.

Irascible old man
Subtle schemer
Action man
Humorous eccentric
Edwardian Gentleman
Aggressive Egotist
Chess master

Even in the new series, the difference between Smith and Capaldi is as big as you can get.

[ray245]

I just find it a little strange that the first female Doctor is coming to the show after the 12th Doctor. Capaldi's Doctor is so aggressive and commanding that it may make the transition a little strange.

You can argue that almost every incarnation has been a drastic departure from the last. Just look at the first 7.

Irascible old man
Subtle schemer
Action man
Humorous eccentric
Edwardian Gentleman
Aggressive Egotist
Chess master

Even in the new series, the difference between Smith and Capaldi is as big as you can get.

True. But Peter Capaldi's version is probably one of the more "masculine" versions of nuWho doctors, which can make the transition difficult. If the 13th Doctor is "softer" and show less "masculine" traits, then there is the uncomfortable implication that the showrunners are sexists.

[Hillary]

I just find it a little strange that the first female Doctor is coming to the show after the 12th Doctor. Capaldi's Doctor is so aggressive and commanding that it may make the transition a little strange.

You can argue that almost every incarnation has been a drastic departure from the last. Just look at the first 7.

Irascible old man
Subtle schemer
Action man
Humorous eccentric
Edwardian Gentleman
Aggressive Egotist
Chess master

Even in the new series, the difference between Smith and Capaldi is as big as you can get.

True. But Peter Capaldi's version is probably one of the more "masculine" versions of nuWho doctors, which can make the transition difficult. If the 13th Doctor is "softer" and show less "masculine" traits, then there is the uncomfortable implication that the showrunners are sexists.

Whatever the showrunners do, they are going to get accused of this. If she's "softer" or "harder" it will still be taken as evidence of "the feminazi agenda"

[ray245]

Whatever the showrunners do, they are going to get accused of this. If she's "softer" or "harder" it will still be taken as evidence of "the feminazi agenda"

I was thinking about the opposite actually. I'm saying the showrunners might be deemed as being sexists. I'm far more concerned over whether the new showrunners can write female characters well.

[Broomstick]

I just hope they don't start dressing her in high heels and cocktail gowns. Whittaker's Doctor should, like the Doctors before her, wear shoes practical for running, among other things. In fact, the way they dressed her in the promo is just fine and I hope they continue in a similar trend.

Well that does depend on the occasion, doesn't it? The various Doctors have often ended up wearing formal attires that are impractical for running from time to time.

"From time to time" is vastly different from "standard costume".

[ray245]

"From time to time" is vastly different from "standard costume".

Well yeah. I'll be interested if they want to have her wear a formal black tie suit as opposed to a formal dress if she is required to wear something more formal.

[Broomstick]

Given that the Doctor has been known to wear a dress (#3, as part of a disguise) even as a man I suspect that for a formal occasion or where it makes sense in the context of a particular story we might see a formal dress, but it should NOT be the norm for the Doctor in the way that high heels were for River Song. As an example. More like the sensible shoes Kate Stewart is seen wearing. Actually, the Brig's daughter is a pretty good template I'd say.

[ray245]

It would have been quite annoying if they basically made the Doctor a copy of River Song. I know Moffat is gone, but I'm not sure if the new writers will follow what Moffat did during his tenure.

[The Romulan Republic]

I just find it a little strange that the first female Doctor is coming to the show after the 12th Doctor. Capaldi's Doctor is so aggressive and commanding that it may make the transition a little strange.

What kind of Doctor will the 13th Doctor be in terms of personality? I doubt they will make her as commanding as the 12th Doctor because that would mean she is just playing the 12th Doctor. At the same time, if they made her a "softer" Doctor than the 12th, people might see this as a gender prejudice and be trying to play on the stereotype of women being "softer" than guys. I'm just curious to find out how will they make the transition between the different Doctors.

All the Doctors tend to have a very large presence, and a certain (even sometimes unhealthy) amount of ego.

Now, "insensitive asshole with a heart of gold" was Capaldi's thing, and I don't think they should redo that. But you can be strong without being callous or a dick. And no Doctor should ever be a pushover, obviously.

The burden on Whittaker is going to be huge because she is effectively going to set the expectation for all female Doctor after her. She does give off a bit of an alien vibe in the short clip introducing her as the Doctor. Even the way she smiled is done in a rather mysterious manner as if we will never know why she smiled.

Yeah, its a lot on her, somewhat unfairly so. Of course, in a sense Hartnell (first Doctor), Troughton (first Doctor to replace another after regeneration), Eccleston (first new series Doctor), and Tennant (first new series regeneration) were in somewhat similar positions of having the burden of defining the role, but they didn't have to deal with all the gender politics debates on top of that.

Though really, Eccleston I don't think ever did have much of an impact on how the character is defined, due to his short tenure, beyond introducing the Doctor's guilt and conflict over the Time War. Tennant seems to have set the mold for new series Doctors, to an extent.

[ray245]

All the Doctors tend to have a very large presence, and a certain (even sometimes unhealthy) amount of ego.

Now, "insensitive asshole with a heart of gold" was Capaldi's thing, and I don't think they should redo that. But you can be strong without being callous or a dick. And no Doctor should ever be a pushover, obviously.

I doubt she will be a pushover. But that doesn't mean the writers can screw things up by over-dramatising over a female Doctor. If she was written by a female head-writer, I'll probably be less worried. But there are quite a number of male writers like Moffatt that seems to have problems writing female lead characters. (Turning Clara into a walking avatar for "fangirls")

Yeah, its a lot on her, somewhat unfairly so. Of course, in a sense Hartnell (first Doctor), Troughton (first Doctor to replace another after regeneration), Eccleston (first new series Doctor), and Tennant (first new series regeneration) were in somewhat similar positions of having the burden of defining the role, but they didn't have to deal with all the gender politics debates on top of that.

Though really, Eccleston I don't think ever did have much of an impact on how the character is defined, due to his short tenure, beyond introducing the Doctor's guilt and conflict over the Time War. Tennant seems to have set the mold for new series Doctors, to an extent.

That's part of the backlash for Calpadi. There's a segment of fans that simply don't like an older Doctor, preferring to see the Doctor as a young heartthrob hero.

Will she be able to reverse the declining ratings and turn Doctor back into its peak popularity during the Tennant era run? That will be interesting to see.

[The Romulan Republic]

Not sure the Tenant era was the peak of popularity. I was under the impression that the ratings hit their high part-way through Smith's run (although it might have been that it was specifically in America that it reached its peak), but I do think Tennant laid a lot of the ground work for that (the hype around the 50th. might have had something to do with it too).

Otherwise, agreed.