Game of Thrones season seven trailer.

[Napoleon the Clown]

"Hard fantasy" seems to me an oxymoron, unless I'm misunderstanding the meaning.

Edit: And having seen the Brienne vs. Arya fight... pretty good, but partly ruined by having creepy, smug Littlefinger in the scene. Can someone please kill him already?

Pretty sure it's on Arya's to-do list.

[Gaidin]

Ramsay gets his magic 20 good men, Euron with his magic fleet and Cersei with her magic luck. Dramatic tension feels unnatural and artificial as a result.

It should be noted that the first battles of the first four episodes were essentially one massive campaign-like battle with the Dothraki in reserve, and it went not very well for Dany until Jaime thought he'd won and started moving for Kings Landing and Dany put her reserves in play and used what she had that nobody else did, her Dragons. If played right, she can still use the uninjured dragons to wreck the part of Euron's fleet at Casterly Rock and get the Unsullied out of there, but we'll see.

Having a set of battles go one side's way is not exactly a new idea if one side plays right. And Jaime, having learned from his own and Tywinn's mistakes against Robb, what's to truly argue with how Casterly Rock is played? Hell, there is specific dialogue from Jaime talking about this. Unless the Unsullied fleet is as huge as is needed for Dorne and moving them around, having enough of Euron's ships handle them is not truly a unique idea given how much Euron was saying he had.

Aside: I have no idea how Euron actually gets enough ships to split fleets like this between seasons 6 and 7(what with their technology level for building them), but apparently according to dialogue, he's in the damn throne room bragging about it. But if screen visuals, much less Euron's sheer luck at the end of the season premier for catching the Greyjoys going to Dorne is to be taken at face value, unless one wants to believe he's moving sailing ships at modern speeds, he has to split the fleet somehow and have enough ships in each place to handle both tasks.

[ray245]

It should be noted that the first battles of the first four episodes were essentially one massive campaign-like battle with the Dothraki in reserve, and it went not very well for Dany until Jaime thought he'd won and started moving for Kings Landing and Dany put her reserves in play and used what she had that nobody else did, her Dragons. If played right, she can still use the uninjured dragons to wreck the part of Euron's fleet at Casterly Rock and get the Unsullied out of there, but we'll see.

Having a set of battles go one side's way is not exactly a new idea if one side plays right. And Jaime, having learned from his own and Tywinn's mistakes against Robb, what's to truly argue with how Casterly Rock is played? Hell, there is specific dialogue from Jaime talking about this. Unless the Unsullied fleet is as huge as is needed for Dorne and moving them around, having enough of Euron's ships handle them is not truly a unique idea given how much Euron was saying he had.

That is dependent on Daenerys scouting and intelligence being so horrible that literally no one spotted the Lannister army marching towards Reach and Highgarden. Even a few good scouts in Highgarden will be enough to sent ravens to Daenerys for help and fly down with her Dragons.

Daenerys have air dominance and assuming that Dragon's flying speed is somewhat comparable to ravens in the show, there is no reason why the Lannister will have such an easy time tricking her.

Aside: I have no idea how Euron actually gets enough ships to split fleets like this between seasons 6 and 7(what with their technology level for building them), but apparently according to dialogue, he's in the damn throne room bragging about it. But if screen visuals, much less Euron's sheer luck at the end of the season premier for catching the Greyjoys going to Dorne is to be taken at face value, unless one wants to believe he's moving sailing ships at modern speeds, he has to split the fleet somehow and have enough ships in each place to handle both tasks.

Which is why I felt this season is quite bad because the dramatic tension felt rather artificial. oh no, the "good guys" are in an utterly dominant position! We can't let that happen because we need to drag the show longer for a few episodes. So you end up with a magic fleet popping out of nowhere to create dramatic tension for the "heroes".

[Gaidin]

That is dependent on Daenerys scouting and intelligence being so horrible that literally no one spotted the Lannister army marching towards Reach and Highgarden. Even a few good scouts in Highgarden will be enough to sent ravens to Daenerys for help and fly down with her Dragons.

Daenerys have air dominance and assuming that Dragon's flying speed is somewhat comparable to ravens in the show, there is no reason why the Lannister will have such an easy time tricking her.

Not anymore anyway. Air dominance doesn't mean anything for these first four episodes due to the intent of the movements, as well as the hopeful politics behind them. And air dominance doesn't mean anything for the war in the South as it currently stands until the world politics changes and Dany finds someone like her. The main issue is the first movements were to get local armies in play. They can sit in their homelands all damn day and collect dust, but at some point their people have to go home and give orders. Hence no matter Tyrion's strategy for King's Landing, whimsical as it was, someone was eventually traveling to Dorne, and someone was eventually traveling to Highgarden. And for all there are three dragons, there's still only one Dragonrider that can literally ride the damn thing around see something, keep the dragon from frying it, and fly back to who needs to know about it.

To what happened and what might follow.

I say Euron catching Yara/Theon was luck mostly because he didn't catch the Unsullied. It's not like he had a line of ships watching the Bay. The fleet transporting the Unsullied got out and Jaime played them smartly with whatever other part Euron deployed to Casterly Rock. And then Euron got lucky catching Yara with her pants down. Jaime goes for Highgarden and takes it with the Tarlys. Dorne and Tyrell are out of play. Dorne at least in the short term depending on their political whims, Tyrell permanently. Dany puts the Dothraki in play and burns quite a few holes in the Lannister infantry and what's to be the King's Landing food stores as both are within a day or two's distance of King's Landing(because apparently transporting that many Dothraki to the mainland takes a while....).

The question is, what do people threaten or cajole each other with next? Cersei has paid off her debts...a rather key thing. She's probably also quite aware of two other dragons. But now also, Dany starts getting a bit heavy-handed so time to talk her down. What can Jon be convinced of? Is ending the war in the South quicker for the sake of an ally in the far North worth it? Probably not. But it might be something that's brought up in a subtle fashion by Tyrion. Uselessly so because Dany just wants him to bend the knee. That and he has other priorities. So she'll just keep doing what she's doing.

[ray245]

That is dependent on Daenerys scouting and intelligence being so horrible that literally no one spotted the Lannister army marching towards Reach and Highgarden. Even a few good scouts in Highgarden will be enough to sent ravens to Daenerys for help and fly down with her Dragons.

Daenerys have air dominance and assuming that Dragon's flying speed is somewhat comparable to ravens in the show, there is no reason why the Lannister will have such an easy time tricking her.

Not anymore anyway. Air dominance doesn't mean anything for these first four episodes due to the intent of the movements, as well as the hopeful politics behind them. And air dominance doesn't mean anything for the war in the South as it currently stands until the world politics changes and Dany finds someone like her. The main issue is the first movements were to get local armies in play. They can sit in their homelands all damn day and collect dust, but at some point their people have to go home and give orders. Hence no matter Tyrion's strategy for King's Landing, whimsical as it was, someone was eventually traveling to Dorne, and someone was eventually traveling to Highgarden. And for all there are three dragons, there's still only one Dragonrider that can literally ride the damn thing around see something, keep the dragon from frying it, and fly back to who needs to know about it.

To what happened and what might follow.

I say Euron catching Yara/Theon was luck mostly because he didn't catch the Unsullied. It's not like he had a line of ships watching the Bay. The fleet transporting the Unsullied got out and Jaime played them smartly with whatever other part Euron deployed to Casterly Rock. And then Euron got lucky catching Yara with her pants down. Jaime goes for Highgarden and takes it with the Tarlys. Dorne and Tyrell are out of play. Dorne at least in the short term depending on their political whims, Tyrell permanently. Dany puts the Dothraki in play and burns quite a few holes in the Lannister infantry and what's to be the King's Landing food stores as both are within a day or two's distance of King's Landing(because apparently transporting that many Dothraki to the mainland takes a while....).

The question is, what do people threaten or cajole each other with next? Cersei has paid off her debts...a rather key thing. She's probably also quite aware of two other dragons. But now also, Dany starts getting a bit heavy-handed so time to talk her down. What can Jon be convinced of? Is ending the war in the South quicker for the sake of an ally in the far North worth it? Probably not. But it might be something that's brought up in a subtle fashion by Tyrion. Uselessly so because Dany just wants him to bend the knee. That and he has other priorities. So she'll just keep doing what she's doing.

Air dominance matters because Daenerys can quickly support her allies in need than the Lannister could react. Say the Lannisters march towards Highgarden is spotted a few days away, they send a raven to Daenerys, and she flies over with her Dragons while the Lannisters are stuck in a seige.

Daenerys can move faster than her enemy. That's why in the books and histories of GoT, Dragons had such a massive advantage because they move so much faster than typical armies. Dragons might not be able to control the ground, but they can destroy most armies.

[Gaidin]

Air dominance matters because Daenerys can quickly support her allies in need than the Lannister could react. Say the Lannisters march towards Highgarden is spotted a few days away, they send a raven to Daenerys, and she flies over with her Dragons while the Lannisters are stuck in a seige.

Daenerys can move faster than her enemy. That's why in the books and histories of GoT, Dragons had such a massive advantage because they move so much faster than typical armies. Dragons might not be able to control the ground, but they can destroy most armies.

Except Dany, in the first four episodes, doesn't have time to play full time air scout for her armies. Or hadn't you missed it? She's Queen and has other duties. Air dominance isn't there until there's an actual battle and she's laying down fire. Until that happens scouting is done in a traditional fashion and they're not going to know about anything like Jaime's movements until scout movements see them and ravens fly off. Even if she wasn't queen, the fact that she is only one dragonrider means she only effectively has one dragon and is literally flying all over the god damn south the way they were trying to do three things. A random point in the ocean to make sure the Greyjoy fleet still moves, another random point to make sure the unsullied fleet still moves, check Dorne, check Casterly Rock, check Highgarden. There is no effective air dominance. SHE NEEDS MORE DRAGONRIDERS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT.

She had been convinced she shouldn't melt castles and cities, so she wasn't flying a dragon to support Casterly Rock, for all it got ambushed and could've used one for the ambushing fleet. Doesn't mean Highgarden, without traditional scouting she wouldn't have had out there short of paranoia, she could've done something about(Jaime's army likely shooting down Highgarden ravens). And then she gets tired of the mess and handles his army on its way back to King's Landing.

[ray245]

Air dominance matters because Daenerys can quickly support her allies in need than the Lannister could react. Say the Lannisters march towards Highgarden is spotted a few days away, they send a raven to Daenerys, and she flies over with her Dragons while the Lannisters are stuck in a seige.

Daenerys can move faster than her enemy. That's why in the books and histories of GoT, Dragons had such a massive advantage because they move so much faster than typical armies. Dragons might not be able to control the ground, but they can destroy most armies.

Except Dany, in the first four episodes, doesn't have time to play full time air scout for her armies. Or hadn't you missed it? She's Queen and has other duties. Air dominance isn't there until there's an actual battle and she's laying down fire. Until that happens scouting is done in a traditional fashion and they're not going to know about anything like Jaime's movements until scout movements see them and ravens fly off. Even if she wasn't queen, the fact that she is only one dragonrider means she only effectively has one dragon and is literally flying all over the god damn south the way they were trying to do three things. A random point in the ocean to make sure the Greyjoy fleet still moves, another random point to make sure the unsullied fleet still moves, check Dorne, check Casterly Rock, check Highgarden. There is no effective air dominance. SHE NEEDS MORE DRAGONRIDERS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT.

She had been convinced she shouldn't melt castles and cities, so she wasn't flying a dragon to support Casterly Rock, for all it got ambushed and could've used one for the ambushing fleet. Doesn't mean Highgarden, without traditional scouting she wouldn't have had out there short of paranoia, she could've done something about(Jaime's army likely shooting down Highgarden ravens). And then she gets tired of the mess and handles his army on its way back to King's Landing.

I'm saying she doesn't have to scout with her dragons. The Tyrells in Highgarden could have spotted the Lannister army and send for help. Also, I'm interested to know how would Jamie be able to shoot down all the ravens in highgarden?

[Gaidin]

That's literally what a besieging army does. That's one of the reasons he recruited Tarly, who theoretically was sworn to House Tyrell. Randyll Tarly's people could approach. Also Tarly, being one of the strongest serving Houses of House Tyrell probably knew the ins and outs of Highgarden and how to quickly besiege and take it without a years long siege. While he probably didn't know the secrets like Tyrion Lannister did of Casterly Rock, him knowing very good strategies for attack is something to not be shocked at. And also appears to be something implemented given apparently how many troops were left over after the castle fighting.

[Titan Uranus]

Considering the size of the army arrayed against Highgarden, and the fact that it is supposed to be a professional army, the siege shouldn't have lasted very long in any case. With the kind of army depicted, you could probably cut down and process more than a thousand trees a day, even if you don't have an unusually high ratio of skilled craftsmen. Of course, that same army failed to butcher light horse that had stopped in front of them, so maybe they aren't actually very professional.

The point is, when you have an army of that scale you can do crazy things, like deforesting a several mile radius, or just building a ramp.

The lack of scouting is foolish on Dany's part, but she shouldn't scout personally. If she dies, the whole invasion is over, it is insane to risk so much on a single point of failure even for a very large increase in scouting ability.

It's also really stupid that Dany went into battle without armor instead of being covered in heavy, extra thick full-plate. But really, by this point we all know that GoT armor is more of a costume.

[Knife]

Meh, I'm just kind of glad they don't have her in video game bikini armor on the dragon.

[Lord Revan]

Meh, I'm just kind of glad they don't have her in video game bikini armor on the dragon.

Tbh no woman has "typical female fantasy armor"(it's not limited to video games and in fact predates video games by a few decades) in this series even impractical female armor's like the one Cersei or the Sand snakes wore isn't overly revealing, to assume they suddenly would use such a design seems odd.

[TheFeniX]

A. You got me all hot and bothered thinking about Red Sonya wearing next to nothing on the back of a dragon burnin' doods down.
B. You got me all hot and bothered thinking about Kitiara rocking full plate on the back of a Blue Dragon blasting doods with lightning.... blue dragons were lightning right? White Dragons use ice.

Dunno man, been years. Look the point is: no matter what they wear, women on dragonback murderin' foos is awesome. It's just a shame Skyrim's attempt at it was so unbelievably shitty, I couldn't even enjoy it.

[FaxModem1]

YAY, Gendry returns.

[TheFeniX]

1. Davos continues to be a beacon of light on this show.
2. STOP. Hammertime.
3. Anyone else wanted the A-team theme to start playing there at the end?

[Guardsman Bass]

What's funny is that I overall enjoyed the episode, while disliking so many of the major pieces of it.

1. I'm glad they got more to do with Davos.
2. Hey it's Gendry!
3. I do love the whole "fellowship" bit at the end.
4. Hated the Lannister stuff
5. Hated Littlefinger in Winterfell - this feels like Tyrion in Mereen last season, where they're waiting for the plot to catch up with him.
6. Don't care how well Sansa is doing in Winterfell
7. Bran's part of it was great.
8. Dragons! . . . look good up close. That's some good CGI.
9. Sam parts were alright.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Set-up for the R+L=J reveal to more than just Branbot.

Davos being all "No, disregard life advice from the smuggler who actually managed to see old age."

Dany being all "Okay, but why does my dragon like this dude? Drogon hates everyone."

Gendry takes after his father in regards to both weapon choice and brute strength. A hammer that size should be stupid unwieldy.

[Ziggy Stardust]

A lot of good moments in this episode, but once again it felt really rushed. It drained the emotional impact of so many moments because they shoved so many of them into the episode without giving any one of them any time to land or feel meaningful (Tyrion + Jaime meeting, Cersei being pregnant, Jorah reuniting with Dany, Gendry reappearing, Jon + Drogon, Jon finding out that both Bran and Arya are still alive, AND Gendry reuniting with the Brotherhood ... that's a LOT to shove into an episode without giving much weight to any in particular).

1) The way the whole Tyrion + Jaime thing went down was needlessly convoluted. First, they had Jaime somehow escape being captured and make it back to King's Landing (which is incredibly dubious, though obviously not impossible, but would have required some pretty daring feats of escape to just hand-wave off-screen), then Tyrion snuck into King's Landing to speak with him to deliver the details of the proposal. Why not have Jaime be captured, have the scene of him and Tyrion talking while Jaime is a prisoner, and Tyrion convincing Dany to send Jaime back to King's Landing to deliver the details of the proposal? Bam, same exact plot points are met, same character interactions, but makes 1000 times more sense and requires less hand-waving. And they still could have worked Gendry in, because honestly there was no reason that Gendry HAD to be in King's Landing, he could have been hiding out somewhere in the Stormlands (and they even could have used the same exact line of dialogue between Gendry/Davos about hiding right under someone's nose).

2) Also, the plan to capture a wight is kind of ... really stupid? I mean, I can see how JON would come up with that plan, it's in keeping with his character and expectations. But why would TYRION in a million years think that he could ever convince Cersei to actually work with Dany and not betray her? Tyrion should know Cersei better than anyone, yet he still naively thinks this will work?

3) Why has Jon not told any of the Mormonts he has met (Lyanna, now Jorah) that HE HAS THEIR ANCESTRAL VALYRIAN STEEL SWORD?! Like, I know that the sword was given to him and that for plot purposes it's important that Jon have a Valyrian steel sword, but it's irritating that the show seems to have completely forgotten the fact that this sword would have huge significance for House Mormont.

4) Finally gave Littlefinger something to do in this episode. Disagree with Guardsman Bass on this one. I mean, I agree that so far this season Littlefinger has done absolutely nothing, but it was nice in this episode that they actually showed him being a smart and dangerous opponent. He played Arya like a fiddle. It's just nice that it shows he is actually trying to achieve something concrete rather than just wandering around pining after Sansa.

5) Confirmation that Jon is a true-born Targaryen!

[Knife]

Meh, they are leading into big intrigue with Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger. I'm a little nonplussed about it. If the Faceless Men can train Arya to be super ninjia, you'd think they would have trained her to see an obvious trick like that. Kind of knocked me out of SOD really.

Magical warp speed row boat got all the characters from Dragon Stone to Kings Landing to the Wall in one episode. Yeesh.

[TheFeniX]

3. I do love the whole "fellowship" bit at the end.

The more I think about it, the more I laugh. It's much more, to me, a "The Expendables" or "The Losers" bit. You've got 2 people (Hound and Jorah) who by all accounts should be dead. 2 guys (Jon and Beric) who HAVE died. 2 Bastards (Jon and Gendry). A wildling, a Red Priest, and a disgraced nobleman who keeps ending up with nothing to lose, and yet still finds a way to lose it. It's the Fellowship of The Usual Suspects.

But, even with Gendry being the one with the smallest showing here, they're all badasses who have survived all kinds of terrible shit (or not). And.... this is where I laugh hard... is there ANY GROUP more qualified to pull this insanity off? Maybe add Bronn?

LotR is what happens when you write a book about an adventuring party. GoTs is what happens when a bunch of roleplayers put together an adventuring party.

LotR is all "and my Bow, and my axe." So heroic! The GoT version is "well, this is a terrible idea, but fuck it, let's all go die in the North." And, this isn't even that Important in the scheme of things. They're all risking death just to try and PROVE the things that are going to be killing them ACTUALLY exist. They're on one HELL of a side-quest. Honestly, missing Davos already and we haven't even made it to the next episode because it would be great just to hear nothing but him saying shit like "How in the Sevens did I end up with this fookin' motley crew of the damned?"

A lot of good moments in this episode, but once again it felt really rushed.

They only have 2 episodes left and one season after that, right? It's "Rome" all over again. I'm settling in for it, because I doubt it's going to get better.

First, they had Jaime somehow escape being captured and make it back to King's Landing (which is incredibly dubious, though obviously not impossible, but would have required some pretty daring feats of escape to just hand-wave off-screen),

I can somehow buy Bronn himself not drowning in his lighter set of armor. But dragging Jamie in full plate out of the water with him? Ha! Sidenote, add Jamie and Bronn to the "Fellowship of the Kidnap a Random White Walker" and that shit is a series in of itself.

3) Why has Jon not told any of the Mormonts he has met (Lyanna, now Jorah) that HE HAS THEIR ANCESTRAL VALYRIAN STEEL SWORD?! Like, I know that the sword was given to him and that for plot purposes it's important that Jon have a Valyrian steel sword, but it's irritating that the show seems to have completely forgotten the fact that this sword would have huge significance for House Mormont.

It's not so bad when you realise Longclaw only has like one of THE most unique hilts in GoTs. Wait that's bad..... but it's not like Jorah, considering who he is, wouldn't immediately take stock of the weaponry of any other warrior.... wait... I have to assume that the sword "took the Black" with Mormont and is now a symbol of the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch... of which Jon is no longer either the Lord Commander... nor a member....

You're making me rationalize shit too hard. Please stop.

[JLTucker]

What was the rationale to have seven episodes this season and six next? Why deviate from the 10 episode format?

[ray245]

What was the rationale to have seven episodes this season and six next? Why deviate from the 10 episode format?

The writers are getting tired of GoT and want to move on to a new project.

[Elheru Aran]

What was the rationale to have seven episodes this season and six next? Why deviate from the 10 episode format?

The writers are getting tired of GoT and want to move on to a new project.

Besides that... they know they're getting wayyyyyy ahead of GRRM at this point and they don't want to step TOO much on his toes. They're quite aware that at this point they're basically doing their own thing and he'll probably take the story some different directions, but they can't wait on him.

At the same time, they can't take it TOO far out into left field in comparison. So they're running with some of the more commonly accepted theories about how the series will end, and they're not going to string it out with a lot of filler, which also saves HBO money because they don't have to keep all these actors employed, special effects shots being made, etc. It's an expensive enough show as it is already.

[Guardsman Bass]

What was the rationale to have seven episodes this season and six next? Why deviate from the 10 episode format?

HBO wanted more seasons, the show-runners didn't want to make any past Season 7, so they compromised by splitting it up and doing the shorter two final seasons (same type of thing that Breaking Bad and Mad Men did in their final seasons). I get the impression that DxD just want to move on and start making Confederate already, and HBO is going to start working on the spin-off series as soon as this is over.

I've been thinking more about the "Fellowship of the Wight Capture". While I liked the scene and I think it will be entertaining to watch, I . . . don't really like what it represents. The story would be a lot more interesting to me if they didn't provide proof to Cersei and Dany that it was time to go fight the Army of the Dead, if the latter two were focused on fighting each other right up to the point where the Wall falls and the Second Long Night begins. They could then have other characters in southern Westeros experience it as a mounting horror. It would be fitting culmination to their respective skepticism all season.

Meh, they are leading into big intrigue with Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger. I'm a little nonplussed about it. If the Faceless Men can train Arya to be super ninjia, you'd think they would have trained her to see an obvious trick like that. Kind of knocked me out of SOD really.

I'm totally betting that there's going to be a "twist" wherein it turns out that Arya was actually on to his little plot, and she and Sansa were working together to find evidence to bring him down. He'll then flee, or Arya will kill him, or both.

2) Also, the plan to capture a wight is kind of ... really stupid? I mean, I can see how JON would come up with that plan, it's in keeping with his character and expectations. But why would TYRION in a million years think that he could ever convince Cersei to actually work with Dany and not betray her? Tyrion should know Cersei better than anyone, yet he still naively thinks this will work?

Your guess is as good as mine, although the answer is presumably that they want that conflict to drag into the final season. I hate most of the Lannister Twins stuff this season - it just feels so wrong after how their storyline ended last season.

I'm in agreement on most of the timeline stuff, though.

Also, how long has Jon been stuck on Dragonstone? He's been there through multiple twists and turns, through Daenerys leaving the island with her Dothraki to wipe out the forces under Randall Tarly and her return, and now the Fellowship of the Wight Capture. Is he supposed to have been stuck there for months on end?

[FireNexus]

I've been thinking more about the "Fellowship of the Wight Capture". While I liked the scene and I think it will be entertaining to watch, I . . . don't really like what it represents. The story would be a lot more interesting to me if they didn't provide proof to Cersei and Dany that it was time to go fight the Army of the Dead, if the latter two were focused on fighting each other right up to the point where the Wall falls and the Second Long Night begins. They could then have other characters in southern Westeros experience it as a mounting horror. It would be fitting culmination to their respective skepticism all season.

My bet is, in keeping with the show's tradition of subverting fantasy cliches, their little quest is what brings the wall down. John's Stark blood allows him to bring the eight past the wall, and the act of doing so nullifies the spells keeping the whole thing together. Benjen couldn't cross, remember, due to the magic. Why can the random wight they capture?

[ray245]

I've been thinking more about the "Fellowship of the Wight Capture". While I liked the scene and I think it will be entertaining to watch, I . . . don't really like what it represents. The story would be a lot more interesting to me if they didn't provide proof to Cersei and Dany that it was time to go fight the Army of the Dead, if the latter two were focused on fighting each other right up to the point where the Wall falls and the Second Long Night begins. They could then have other characters in southern Westeros experience it as a mounting horror. It would be fitting culmination to their respective skepticism all season.

My bet is, in keeping with the show's tradition of subverting fantasy cliches, their little quest is what brings the wall down. John's Stark blood allows him to bring the eight past the wall, and the act of doing so nullifies the spells keeping the whole thing together. Benjen couldn't cross, remember, due to the magic. Why can the random wight they capture?

They already shown wrights can pass the wall. Back in season 1.