Game of Thrones season seven trailer.

[JLTucker]

Ray: I thought they were carried in by the NW, thinking they were just corpses.

[Guardsman Bass]

They were carried through, and I think that seems to be it - they otherwise couldn't cross on their own. Although in that case why couldn't Sam invite Coldhands through . . . .whatever.

I think it's either going to be some type of accident where-in Bran accidentally allows an actual White Walker to cross through the Wall (as opposed to just a wight) trying to help the Fellowship of the Wight Capture escape, or something involving a dragon. I notice they haven't really brought up or talked about the whole "dragon has three heads" prophecy, so I bet it's only going to be Dany and Jon riding dragons - the third one might die so it can be brought back as a wight dragon for the Night's King to fight with in the final season (plus a dragon vs undead dragon battle would be badass).

[Elfdart]

Twelve Questions:

1) If Jon is Raegar's legitimate son, doesn't that make his claim better than Danerys'?

2) Why is Cersei coming across as more sensible right now than Danerys? Is it just me? Burning the Great Santini and his son seemed stupid as well as cruel.

3) Sam is still part of the Night's Watch, so isn't he in mortal danger if he's caught south of the wall? His "pass" was just for him to go to Oldtown. He can't inherit the Tarley title (or can he?) so does his mom or sister?

4) Where the fuck is Ghost? I realize there's a finite budget but surely it wouldn't break the bank to put a white furry stuffed thing in the corner with a throwaway line about how Ghost sleeps a lot with Jon gone. Or they could just use fleeting footage of a white wolf in the forest and say Ghost spends most of his time hunting outside.

5) Bronn is already dead, right?

6) I take it horses, reindeer, dog sleds aren't a thing north of the Wall? The wights can run just as fast as the living, so the speed and carrying capacity would be helpful, right?

7) Oberyn mentioned eight daughters to Cersei, of whom three have been killed. Are the others alive or just kids? Is Dorne totally out of play just because four nobles bought it?

8 ) If Dorne is out of play along with Highgarden, which was sacked and looted; along with Lannister Land, Riverrun and the Baratheon homeland, wouldn't Danerys be better served by sending Dothraki and at least one dragon North now? As I pointed out last season, light cavalry would be perfect for mowing down mobs of animated corpses, even without calling in a dragon napalm strike.

9) Why do so many people (mostly dudes) assume that because Grey Worm did oral, he has no dick?

10) Shouldn't priority #1 for Danerys be to find and burn Euron's fleet? She can't retrieve the Unsullied, pick up Dornish forces (if there are any) or bring in supplies with Euron's fleet lurking out there. What's more, burning Euron to the waterline would prevent Cersei from bringing in mercenaries in any great numbers.

11) Is Cersei bullshitting about being pregnant just to keep Jamie in line?

12) How the fuck would Jon & Co go about presenting a wight to Cersei?

[ray245]

Ray: I thought they were carried in by the NW, thinking they were just corpses.

Yeah, but this suggests wrights can make it through the gate and still function.

[SCRawl]

9) Why do so many people (mostly dudes) assume that because Grey Worm did oral, he has no dick?

I don't recall if they mentioned it in the show, but in the books the Unsullied get the Varys treatment.

[Guardsman Bass]

Twelve Questions:

1) If Jon is Raegar's legitimate son, doesn't that make his claim better than Danerys'?

It does, and that'll probably come up eventually. Although all he has to prove it is a piece of paper and Bran, plus being friendly with a dragon.

2) Why is Cersei coming across as more sensible right now than Danerys? Is it just me? Burning the Great Santini and his son seemed stupid as well as cruel.

It's not just you. Although part of that is because Cersei's done some crazy shit that isn't being treated like that by the show. Blowing up the Great Sept and High Septon last season was pretty "Mad Queen" stuff, but everyone's just treating her like she's just a ruthless, cunning ruler.

3) Sam is still part of the Night's Watch, so isn't he in mortal danger if he's caught south of the wall? His "pass" was just for him to go to Oldtown. He can't inherit the Tarley title (or can he?) so does his mom or sister?

I think they'll have him take it anyways, or at least rally what's left of his family's supporters to go north. He still has the Valuable Family Sword.

6) I take it horses, reindeer, dog sleds aren't a thing north of the Wall? The wights can run just as fast as the living, so the speed and carrying capacity would be helpful, right?

That would make a lot of sense. This plan doesn't make much sense - are they hoping to lasso a wight that somehow got separated from the big giant group, hog-tie it, and then book it back through the Wall before the Night's King notices? They'd absolutely want horses or something else to give them a speed advantage in getting back.

Ugh, Jon's ideas are so bad, but he keeps getting treated like he's a good leader.

[Solauren]

here ya go Elfdart:

1) If Jon is Raegar's legitimate son, doesn't that make his claim better than Danerys'?
Considering that the Targeryon were overthrown, unless everyone suddenly decides to depose Cersei and put a Targeryon in charge, it's a mute point.
Also, Danny has Dragons. That's her claim to the throne at this point.

2) Why is Cersei coming across as more sensible right now than Danerys? Is it just me? Burning the Great Santini and his son seemed stupid as well as cruel.
Cersei is being more sensible, right now. There could be several reasons. Recovery over the deaths of her children with her being pregnant comes to mind.
However, Danerys burning down the Tarlys makes sense. Realistically, she needs to do that only a few times to get the point across. She can't afford to leave people thinking they can get away with any shit with her.

3) Sam is still part of the Night's Watch, so isn't he in mortal danger if he's caught south of the wall? His "pass" was just for him to go to Oldtown. He can't inherit the Tarley title (or can he?) so does his mom or sister?
There is no indication he's going anywhere but back to the Wall. He's not a disserter of the Night's Watch. He can honestly say he went to the Citadel at the Lord Commander at the times orders, and is heading back with vital information. (He seems to have a knack for finding the right books).

4) Where the fuck is Ghost? I realize there's a finite budget but surely it wouldn't break the bank to put a white furry stuffed thing in the corner with a throwaway line about how Ghost sleeps a lot with Jon gone. Or they could just use fleeting footage of a white wolf in the forest and say Ghost spends most of his time hunting outside.
There is the possibility Jon's link to Ghost was broken when he was resurrected. We haven't seen Ghost since then.
Of course, this leaves him open to bond with say, a dragon.....

5) Bronn is already dead, right?
Debatable. Cersei isn't made about it, at least it seems, so really, it's up to Jamie, and Jamie is the saner of the two.

6) I take it horses, reindeer, dog sleds aren't a thing north of the Wall? The wights can run just as fast as the living, so the speed and carrying capacity would be helpful, right?
We've never seen any indication of Horses being used (or owned) in numbers North of the wall. It's possible that Horses are an introduced species to Westros, and never caught on North of the Wall. The horses we have seen north of the wall have all been domesticated, and may have been taken from Night's Watch Rangers.

I don't recall seeing reindeer north of the wall, and the free folk may never have tried the idea of Dog sleds.

7) Oberyn mentioned eight daughters to Cersei, of whom three have been killed. Are the others alive or just kids? Is Dorne totally out of play just because four nobles bought it?
We don't know the political situation in Dorne, or the ages of the remaining daughters. Dorne has been given a very ligtht treatment in the series.

If Dorne is out of play along with Highgarden, which was sacked and looted; along with Lannister Land, Riverrun and the Baratheon homeland, wouldn't Danerys be better served by sending Dothraki and at least one dragon North now? As I pointed out last season, light cavalry would be perfect for mowing down mobs of animated corpses, even without calling in a dragon napalm strike.
Danerys isn't 100% convinced of the Army of the Walking Dead right now. Quite frankly, Jon said point blank to Tormund that they needed to onvince BOTH queens.

9) Why do so many people (mostly dudes) assume that because Grey Worm did oral, he has no dick?
It's been said several times in the series that Unsullied have all been castrated.

10) Shouldn't priority #1 for Danerys be to find and burn Euron's fleet? She can't retrieve the Unsullied, pick up Dornish forces (if there are any) or bring in supplies with Euron's fleet lurking out there. What's more, burning Euron to the waterline would prevent Cersei from bringing in mercenaries in any great numbers.
Debatable. Right now her priority is setting up an alliance with the North/getting the North to bend the knee. If she does that, her dragons can interdict the sea to prevent mercanaries from reaching King's Landing. Euron is a pain in the ass right now, not much more.

11) Is Cersei bullshitting about being pregnant just to keep Jamie in line?
No, I'm willing to bet she's pregnant. She's young enough it's feasible.

12) How the fuck would Jon & Co go about presenting a wight to Cersei?
We've seen lone Wights wandering around (and lone White walkers for that manner). In THEORY, isolating one form the 'horde' and capturing it should be possible. Quite frankly, I think that's probably suicide.

Hell, in theory, there could/should be stragglers they could find and pick off, or even advanced scouts.
Hell, what happens when you cut a Wight's head off? If it stays animated, just stuff it into a burlap sack. All they'd have to do is find one, and loop it's head off.

[Vympel]

I probably enjoyed this episode more than the last one. Sure, it didn't have a huge battle, but there was a lot to unpack and a lot of great scenes. Some random thoughts:

- We finally have a number for the Knights of Vale Lord Royce took North - 2,000.
- We also have a number of House Glover's (obviously reduced) strength - 500.
- What will happen to the Lannister and Tarly captives who bent the knee? Will we see Daenarys form a proper Targaryen army with Westeros' patented mass produced House uniforms? I kinda of hope so.
- Poor Dickon Tarly. Stood to reason that they briefly introduced this foolish young man to make us feel bad when Dany cooked him and his dickhead father. Still, given they betrayed House Tyrell (what was left of it) - kind of had it coming.
- Littlefinger is ... actually being Littlefinger in this episode. Not walking around mouthing bullshit like a fortune cookie. That's good!
- Speaking of the North - Lord Glover really shits me off. He gave the best 'King in the North' in the Season 6 finale, and now he's mewling like a prick about how they should've chosen Sansa. Christ.
- Gendry is very conventionally 'boy waiting to go on a quest' right? It's kind of adorable. I love it how he has a big huge ROBERT BARATHEON MOTHERFUCKERS hammer just waiting to be taken up. It's a bit fan-servicey - but fuck it, I enjoyed it.
- It kind of sucks Brienne doesn't go with the Magnificent 7 / Expendables. She's got Valyrian steel and she's had nothing to do this season but stand around and practice. Gwendoline Christie has the patience of a saint.
- Gilly's revelation about High Septon Maynard. Honestly - it's got problems (i.e. Rhaegar spurned the daughter of Dorne while still leading their armies to their deaths) but I don't see it as wildly improbable. It's not at all improbable it'd be recorded if the High Septon was so inclined. It's not like he'd be anticipating the destruction of the Targaryen dynasty at the relevant time he wrote it down - or how it made it to the Citadel in the first place.

A lot of good moments in this episode, but once again it felt really rushed. It drained the emotional impact of so many moments because they shoved so many of them into the episode without giving any one of them any time to land or feel meaningful (Tyrion + Jaime meeting, Cersei being pregnant, Jorah reuniting with Dany, Gendry reappearing, Jon + Drogon, Jon finding out that both Bran and Arya are still alive, AND Gendry reuniting with the Brotherhood ... that's a LOT to shove into an episode without giving much weight to any in particular).

2) Also, the plan to capture a wight is kind of ... really stupid? I mean, I can see how JON would come up with that plan, it's in keeping with his character and expectations. But why would TYRION in a million years think that he could ever convince Cersei to actually work with Dany and not betray her? Tyrion should know Cersei better than anyone, yet he still naively thinks this will work?

It's a very, very stupid plan. They don't even have any horses.

3) Why has Jon not told any of the Mormonts he has met (Lyanna, now Jorah) that HE HAS THEIR ANCESTRAL VALYRIAN STEEL SWORD?! Like, I know that the sword was given to him and that for plot purposes it's important that Jon have a Valyrian steel sword, but it's irritating that the show seems to have completely forgotten the fact that this sword would have huge significance for House Mormont.

I think if they wanted it back they'd ask for it. The Old Bear gave it to Jon and had the hilt remade from the old bear pommel to one made especially for him (a white wolf with red eyes). Besides, Jorah would probably mention it next episode, where there's more time.

[Guardsman Bass]

It's a very, very stupid plan. They don't even have any horses.

Nor do they appear to be carrying any supplies aside from whatever they're lugging around on their backs.

I guess it makes some sense if they're only going a day's walk away from Eastwatch and the Wall. If something went wrong, it would be more feasible for them to simply run as fast as possible back to the Wall for security. But that also means they won't find a wight unless there's a couple of them lingering around ahead of the main Army of the Dead, or unless the latter is literally at the Wall (only a day's walk away).

[GuppyShark]

The whole episode was worth it just for "Thought you might still be rowing."

[Gaidin]

- Gilly's revelation about High Septon Maynard. Honestly - it's got problems (i.e. Rhaegar spurned the daughter of Dorne while still leading their armies to their deaths) but I don't see it as wildly improbable. It's not at all improbable it'd be recorded if the High Septon was so inclined. It's not like he'd be anticipating the destruction of the Targaryen dynasty at the relevant time he wrote it down - or how it made it to the Citadel in the first place.

The tv series hasn't dabbled as much in dreams and prophecies as the books has. Granted, when the books played with the Azor Ahai prophecy one could theoretically point to something like three characters it may apply to because GRRM likes playing with his readers. Azor Ahai quotes. They get more specific as the series goes on honing in on a specific character, but you do notice certain imagery in one of the quotes that one might associate with war, and given what we know now and what scenes are coming, not necessarily the War of Five Kings.

[Titan Uranus]

God I hope Gendry dies soon, every time I see that fucking hammer of his I expect to hear cartoon sound effects.

Does the prop department really expect us to believe that's made of iron and not rubber? Unless they actually make a point of saying it's made of rubber, which would still be stupid, but physically possible to wield.

[Vympel]

God I hope Gendry dies soon, every time I see that fucking hammer of his I expect to hear cartoon sound effects.

Does the prop department really expect us to believe that's made of iron and not rubber? Unless they actually make a point of saying it's made of rubber, which would still be stupid, but physically possible to wield.

It's similar in size and concept to the book-accurate version of Robert's warhammer, so I'm fine with it.

Nor do they appear to be carrying any supplies aside from whatever they're lugging around on their backs.

It was easy to miss but there's wildling extras behind them lugging supplies on sleds.

[Lord Revan]

Honestly to Gendry's warhammer didn't seem to big enought to be impossible to wield (as in too heavy to swing properly), though it would be impractical, you could probably lift and swing it just fine (especially since the wielder is fairly young and strong) but the wielder would tire quite quickly.

[streetad]

Twelve Questions:

1) If Jon is Raegar's legitimate son, doesn't that make his claim better than Danerys'?

Probably. Not that it matters if he doesn't really want to be King and she has all the dragons.

2) Why is Cersei coming across as more sensible right now than Danerys? Is it just me? Burning the Great Santini and his son seemed stupid as well as cruel.

Meh. Cersei has basically been motivated entirely by revenge for a while. There wasn't much else Dany could do with the Tarly's once she had already made the threat and they pretty much told her to fuck off back to Mereen where she belongs.

3) Sam is still part of the Night's Watch, so isn't he in mortal danger if he's caught south of the wall? His "pass" was just for him to go to Oldtown. He can't inherit the Tarley title (or can he?) so does his mom or sister?

There are examples of female leaders of houses, although mostly in the North. So I imagine one of them might inherit. I doubt they are really on the lookout for Nights Watch deserters in the Reach and Sam is travelling North. He could plausibly claim to be returning on schedule or perhaps be a recruiter like Yoren.

4) Where the fuck is Ghost? I realize there's a finite budget but surely it wouldn't break the bank to put a white furry stuffed thing in the corner with a throwaway line about how Ghost sleeps a lot with Jon gone. Or they could just use fleeting footage of a white wolf in the forest and say Ghost spends most of his time hunting?

At least he got a mention this week!

5) Bronn is already dead, right?

Probably not. Cersei seems to be pretending it was all as planned. Jaime owes him his life several times over so he's probably safe there.

6) I take it horses, reindeer, dog sleds aren't a thing north of the Wall? The wights can run just as fast as the living, so the speed and carrying capacity would be helpful, right?

There were some redshirts coming through the gates with packs and sleds and stuff. Presumably either wildlings or the remaining brotherhood mooks. They just didn't get to be in the Dynamic Team Photo.

7) Oberyn mentioned eight daughters to Cersei, of whom three have been killed. Are the others alive or just kids? Is Dorne totally out of play just because four nobles bought it?

In the books I think four of them were young children. I doubt we will find out who is in charge in Dorne now, same as the Stormlands.


8 ) If Dorne is out of play along with Highgarden, which was sacked and looted; along with Lannister Land, Riverrun and the Baratheon homeland, wouldn't Danerys be better served by sending Dothraki and at least one dragon North now? As I pointed out last season, light cavalry would be perfect for mowing down mobs of animated corpses, even without calling in a dragon napalm strike.

I guess she's not completely sold yet.

9) Why do so many people (mostly dudes) assume that because Grey Worm did oral, he has no dick?

Do they? Can't say I have noticed. I'm sure the precise nature of his eunuchness was a point of discussion on the show at one point.

10) Shouldn't priority #1 for Danerys be to find and burn Euron's fleet? She can't retrieve the Unsullied, pick up Dornish forces (if there are any) or bring in supplies with Euron's fleet lurking out there. What's more, burning Euron to the waterline would prevent Cersei from bringing in mercenaries in any great numbers.

I suppose the Lannister army was closer and a more time-critical target. Euron's fleet is presumably still blockading Casterley Rock so temporarily out of play plus she would need to cross the entirety of Westeros. Maybe it's next on the list.

11) Is Cersei bullshitting about being pregnant just to keep Jamie in line?

Could be. Although if so she probably shouldn't be threatening him like an evil overlord immediately after.

12) How the fuck would Jon & Co go about presenting a wight to Cersei?

Presumably in an exciting season finale kind of a way..

[Elheru Aran]

Twelve Questions:
8 ) If Dorne is out of play along with Highgarden, which was sacked and looted; along with Lannister Land, Riverrun and the Baratheon homeland, wouldn't Danerys be better served by sending Dothraki and at least one dragon North now? As I pointed out last season, light cavalry would be perfect for mowing down mobs of animated corpses, even without calling in a dragon napalm strike.

I haven't watched much of the show since like season 3, but I've kept up with it a bit via fan sites. IIRC Dany is the only one so far who can control the Dragons, so if she sent some Dothraki north with a dragon, she'd have to go too. Unless they've made it so she can tell the Dragons what to do and they'll obey, in which case never mind.

[Titan Uranus]

It's similar in size and concept to the book-accurate version of Robert's warhammer, so I'm fine with it.

Then they should have taken the opportunity to make a sane version.

It was easy to miss but there's wildling extras behind them lugging supplies on sleds.

Thank god for that, though it still doesn't explain the lack of showshoes or setting off in a blizzard. Eastwatch-by-the-Sea is, well, by the sea. It would have been better to take a ship unless the bay is filled with ice now or something, which they certainly didn't show.

Honestly to Gendry's warhammer didn't seem to big enought to be impossible to wield (as in too heavy to swing properly), though it would be impractical, you could probably lift and swing it just fine (especially since the wielder is fairly young and strong) but the wielder would tire quite quickly.

Have you ever swung a heavy maul or sledgehammer? I have, fairly often. You cannot fight with them, they are far too slow to manuver and you are likely to hurt yourself if you try. And that warhammer, were it made of iron, would be far, far heavier than the hammers and mauls that I have used. I'll have to go back and look, but I wouldn't be surprised if that whacky hammer would be 40-50 lbs if it were made of iron. I don't care how strong Gendry is, if he swung that hammer like he did, even if he could keep it level while it was extended (remember, its not just a heavy weight, its a heavy weight on the end of a 2-3 foot lever) he would tear the hell out of his back/shoulders. He certainly wouldn't do it again.

And all that pain and good metal wasted for what? A slow, absurdly oversized hammer that is overkill for anything, including mining? Mauls and sledgehammers are as heavy as they are to take advantage of gravity, and work best from a stable, vertical swing, any other sort of swing and gravity starts to work against your weaker stabilizing muscles, and you have to stop long before your powerful major muscle groups get tired. And they are still 20-30 lbs lighter than the Whacky Hammer.

Look at real life war hammers of either the one or two handed variety. They have small heads, about the size of a normal claw hammer.

They should have just given him a lucerne hammer or something similar. It still would have been distinctive, and it doesn't look like it ought to be in Loony Tunes (the Whacky Hammer being black doesn't help in that regard.)

[TheFeniX]

Tyrion seemed to be the only person to attempt reasoning with a dragon and it seemed to understand his intentions. But that's farcry from getting it to take orders when even Danny had issues up until recently. That said, I wouldn't send a dragon North of the wall. Use them from a fortified position if the walkers come South. Because I have seen zombie horses in the show, so we don't know the extent of what can be raised, but we can make assumptions. The extent of the power of the Night Knight also isn't known. Losing a dragon due some shenanigans, then having to fight a zombie dragon?

I doubt anyone would care about Sam, even if they found out somehow he was a member of The Watch. The North is essentially still in open rebellion with Cersei as even if they accepted Jon Snow as Lord of Winterfell, Cersei wants Sansa dead. Arya solo-wipe Frey off the map which means the Twins is likely having it's own major issues. Cersei is dealing with the Dragon-lady. The Tullys (and now Tarleys) are toast. There's next to no stability anywhere and it's unlikely any particular house would care about one rogue Watchman. Sam would more likely be waylaided and killed by bandits than being beheaded as a deserter.

Edit: also, Fuck Tarley. "I don't side with people that slits throats at weddings. Oh wait I do! But I won't follow you because foreigners." Admittedly, Sam did say he hates wildlings, so there's that. But he's just a miserably old fuck set in his ways. A shame he got his son killed along-side him.

[Titan Uranus]

Ghetto edit past the timer:

As for Cercei not believing Jon about the threat of the Wights, who gives a damn? Just parade it/a few around to the major lords and cut her ought-to-be-nonexistent powerbase out from under her.
Why the hell is anyone other than the west following her again?


Tarly had ambitions to take over the Reach, fine, the house that commands the Reach is a shambling corpse ties to a single old heart's beat. All he needed to do was present his army and services as one of the best commanders in westeros to a young, pliable girl unused to courtly intrigue and severely lacking in commanders. Instead he sides with the madwoman who just killed a shitload of lords and ladies, the Pope, the Queen, and blew up the Vatican. Right, that's sane.

Who else, the Crownlands? Maybe, but they are quite small. The Stormlands? Most of their levies died at the Blackwater, deserted, or just sort of disappeared somewhere in the north after turning coat to the Boltons. The Riverlands? Rebellious and in no shape to send men anywhere. The Iron Islands, led by crazy reavers, so fair enough.


FeniX: If dragon wights are as flammable as human wights, then I'm not sure why they'd be a threat at all. Gets fire breathed on it, engulfed in flames, tries to breathe fire, engulfed in flames, gets hit by a fire-arrow (which also exist in the show), engulfed in flames. Really, I'm not sure why they bother with swords, just mass-issue petrochemical torches, if the wildlings can get oil, what's the North's excuse?

[TheFeniX]

Tarly had ambitions to take over the Reach, fine, the house that commands the Reach is a shambling corpse ties to a single old heart's beat. All he needed to do was present his army and services as one of the best commanders in westeros to a young, pliable girl unused to courtly intrigue and severely lacking in commanders. Instead he sides with the madwoman who just killed a shitload of lords and ladies, the Pope, the Queen, and blew up the Vatican. Right, that's sane.

Who else, the Crownlands? Maybe, but they are quite small. The Stormlands? Most of their levies died at the Blackwater, deserted, or just sort of disappeared somewhere in the north after turning coat to the Boltons. The Riverlands? Rebellious and in no shape to send men anywhere. The Iron Islands, led by crazy reavers, so fair enough.

I find myself (though the arguments have not been presented here so much) annoyed not by Randy's action, but the flak Danny is getting from fans for burning down their self-titled "hero that Westeros needs." He's just an ornery old bastard who died and got his heir killed as well because he had more balls than brains and did a bang-up job instilling his true-born with his same idiotic notions of honor, that really suck. Why do people have such a hard-on for him?

He was never presented as a decent person, nor a particularly loyal one, merely a competent soldier, yet people are all butthurt he's dead when he had every chance to prevent it.

FeniX: If dragon wights are as flammable as human wights, then I'm not sure why they'd be a threat at all. Gets fire breathed on it, engulfed in flames, tries to breathe fire, engulfed in flames, gets hit by a fire-arrow (which also exist in the show), engulfed in flames. Really, I'm not sure why they bother with swords, just mass-issue petrochemical torches, if the wildlings can get oil, what's the North's excuse?

Keyword: "if." I would have to assume a dragon would demand more attention in whatever magic used to raise it from the dead. While fire (or Dragonglass) might do work against a White.... Flyer, we don't know the extent of what a transformation like that would do to a dragon, if it's even possible since Dragons seem to have their own magic about them.

In DnD, raising a dragon as anything other than a shambling (yet still moderately powerful) pile of bones and skin flaps took serious magic and the end result was "wreck your shit" levels of bad news, such as DracoLiches and other forms of Zombie++ dragons.

It's like how Wights are held off by fire but White Walkers don't seem to care. At some point, they were both human. And fire is pretty damn deadly to humans when they are alive and we tend to avoid it because "fire hot! Fire INDEED hot." Not so much for Dragons. And even a standard "Wight Dragon" would have a lot of the characteristics of being a Dragon going for it.

So, I'm not buying a zombie dragon wouldn't be a threat at all when a brain-dead one smashes into your line and just starts flailing about turning men into blood-smears. This is provided it doesn't retain it's mental and physical abilities. Sure, Dragonglass is a counter to the dead, but is one touch all that's needed? Or did the Walker that Jon turned to dust do so because he sliced through it's upper-torso, an act that would have killed a normal man if done with normal steel.

Vampires tend to be "weak" against stakes to the heart or decapitation. You know who else is weak to that? Everyone.

But still, this is probably just not going to be an issue in the show. But it's also why I wouldn't risk a dragon North of the wall (nor Danny). Worst case, fight them at The Wall. Where you have elevation and the dragons can swoop down and burn-baby-burn on their terms.

[Titan Uranus]

I find myself (though the arguments have not been presented here so much) annoyed not by Randy's action, but the flak Danny is getting from fans for burning down their self-titled "hero that Westeros needs." He's just an ornery old bastard who died and got his heir killed as well because he had more balls than brains and did a bang-up job instilling his true-born with his same idiotic notions of honor, that really suck. Why do people have such a hard-on for him?

He was never presented as a decent person, nor a particularly loyal one, merely a competent soldier, yet people are all butthurt he's dead when he had every chance to prevent it.

I'm just criticizing Tarly's actions on the grounds of stupidity, when he could have been used as an interesting foil later on, a representative of the old breed within Dany's cabinet. You could, say, have a plot about him intentionally using Dorthraki for especially dangerous missions/points in the battle-line, outwardly praising their bravery while secretly attempting to get all of the savages killed both because he doesn't want to deal with them after the war and because he viscerally hates them. It'd be even better of the Dorthraki themselves were taken in, and asked that he command them, for glory et al.

Well, if it were real life, then it would probably take a real psychopath to order men burned alive and then watch dispassionately while they burned.

Keyword: "if." I would have to assume a dragon would demand more attention in whatever magic used to raise it from the dead. While fire (or Dragonglass) might do work against a White.... Flyer, we don't know the extent of what a transformation like that would do to a dragon, if it's even possible since Dragons seem to have their own magic about them.

In DnD, raising a dragon as anything other than a shambling (yet still moderately powerful) pile of bones and skin flaps took serious magic and the end result was "wreck your shit" levels of bad news, such as DracoLiches and other forms of Zombie++ dragons.

It's like how Wights are held off by fire but White Walkers don't seem to care. At some point, they were both human. And fire is pretty damn deadly to humans when they are alive and we tend to avoid it because "fire hot! Fire INDEED hot." Not so much for Dragons. And even a standard "Wight Dragon" would have a lot of the characteristics of being a Dragon going for it.

So, I'm not buying a zombie dragon wouldn't be a threat at all when a brain-dead one smashes into your line and just starts flailing about turning men into blood-smears. This is provided it doesn't retain it's mental and physical abilities. Sure, Dragonglass is a counter to the dead, but is one touch all that's needed? Or did the Walker that Jon turned to dust do so because he sliced through it's upper-torso, an act that would have killed a normal man if done with normal steel.

Vampires tend to be "weak" against stakes to the heart or decapitation. You know who else is weak to that? Everyone.

But still, this is probably just not going to be an issue in the show. But it's also why I wouldn't risk a dragon North of the wall (nor Danny). Worst case, fight them at The Wall. Where you have elevation and the dragons can swoop down and burn-baby-burn on their terms.

I think the Wight/Walker fire dicotomy is about magical power holding the forms together. However, walkers are created from the living and can only be made from infants it appears (by the walkers themselves
Hear me out, dragonfire is much, much hotter/more energetic than a fire it's color has any right to be. It burned armored men to ash and soot in a fraction of a second, as though it were a directed nuclear blast. Or maybe, a directed volcanic blast.

I think that there is some sort of magical transference of power at work in both obsidian/dragonglass and Valyrian Steel.
The obsidian gains the magical power of the volcano that created it, while the Valyrian Steel gains the magical power of dragonfire. Either way, in being melted/forged both become anathema to Walkers and, being magical in nature, they can overcome whatever defenses walkers have against regular fire/swords.

I think the anathema idea is supported by the fact that when Sam stabbed a walker in the back of the calf he exploded rather than rolling on the ground, writhing in pain.

And the Wight in season 1 didn't burn like a human, it got hit with what I think was a kerosene lantern and went up like it had been soaked in gasoline.

I don't think a dragon lost is worth more than half of your advisors, your best (potentially two best) commanders, and your best chance to get all the southern lords on your side, especially since it's only a chance of that happening. Although if Dany has to go the equation changes.

I don't think that we know what happens when wights get hit with Dragonglass/Valyrian Steel.

[wautd]

It's a very, very stupid plan. They don't even have any horses.

Nor do they appear to be carrying any supplies aside from whatever they're lugging around on their backs.

A million-to-one chance succeeds nine times out of ten [/shameless Discworld reference]

[Elfdart]

My issue with Danerys burning the Great Santini is not that that I'm fond of the character (I'm not -he was cruel for cruelty's sake, and also rather dull), but that burning people alive might make people knuckle under for now. However, they'll gladly switch sides again if say, a skorpion bolt should score a lethal hit on a dragon. She's no George Washington, in other words.

The wights always light up like they're soaked in gasoline, which is why I almost yelled at the screen "TORCHES YOU DUMBFUCKS!" during the Hardhome Massacre.

[Lord Revan]

The wights always light up like they're soaked in gasoline, which is why I almost yelled at the screen "TORCHES YOU DUMBFUCKS!" during the Hardhome Massacre.

The wights might burn well it might not matter as IIRC the White Walkers themselves seem to have an ability to kill any (non-magical) fire near them.

[Tsyroc]

Does anyone else wonder if the bolts for Qyburn's scorpion were poisoned?

We know he's dealt with poison before and if it is possible to keep poison on those bolts without it killing the people shooting them it seems like it would be a good idea. You have to be pretty fortunate to get a good killing shot at one of the dragons why not have a backup plan for any hit taking the dragon out of play eventually, at least for a time, if not permanently?