Star Trek: Discovery

[Crazedwraith]

Bryan Fuller Out as 'Star Trek: Discovery' Showrunner

Fuuck. There goes any optimism I had.

[The Romulan Republic]

Bryan Fuller Out as 'Star Trek: Discovery' Showrunner

• "Insiders note that there had been some frustration on Fuller's part with the speed with which Discovery was moving. CBS Television Studios has already begun marketing the series, which has yet to be cast, with panels at San Diego Comic-Con, a teaser at the upfronts and a Q&A with executives and Fuller at TCA."

(Emphasis mine)

So...announced nearly a year ago, was supposed to begin airing in January but pushed back to May...and apparently they haven't even casted it yet? Seriously?

The only concrete thing we've seen from them was a shitty trailer they threw together at the last minute and a bunch of fluff about their intentions. For something announced back in November and was originally slated to air about two months from now.

What the fuck have they been doing for the past year? Because apparently it didn't involve actually making a new Star Trek show.

This shit happens from time to time. The Justice League films went through how many botched attempts and rewrites? Hell, Fury Road took a ridiculously long time to make, as I recall.

Its still frustrating, though.

[bilateralrope]

So what we know so far is:
- Ugly ship that might not be the final version.
- It's a prequel, but new alien species have been promised.
- It's focusing on an incident people have had questions about. The only question I've seen is "Which incident ?".
- Instead of focusing on the character in command, it focuses on someone of a lower rank.
- They plan to hide the main characters name from the viewers.
- Lots of delays.
- Bryan Fuller has quit the show.

Is any part of it looking hopeful ?

Though I'll probably be watching the first episode no matter how bad the show sounds.

[SpottedKitty]

Is any part of it looking hopeful ?

You left out speculation on whether its production values/sfx/scripting/acting etc. will be outclassed by the average fan-made episode.

[The Romulan Republic]

To be fair, I also feel like a lot of people are seizing on any troubling news about this show and hyping it up, as though they want it to fail.

Their's always the knee-jerk fan contingent who will go nuts at pretty much anything new.

[SpottedKitty]

Well, FWIW I'm still hopeful, although I wish I could see more to be hopeful about.

[Lord Revan]

To be fair, I also feel like a lot of people are seizing on any troubling news about this show and hyping it up, as though they want it to fail.

Their's always the knee-jerk fan contingent who will go nuts at pretty much anything new.

there's always the section who want it to fail either because a)they're not in charge even if there's no chance in hell they'd ever be put in charge of prject like this (aka they're a random trek fan bitching online) b)they just want to see CBS/paramount fail.

Ironically I'd see the fact it got promoted this early as a sign that CBS is somewhat hopeful about it.

[bilateralrope]

I want this to be good. I'm probably just overly cynical.

[Joun_Lord]

I'm the same. A new Trek series is what I want, even one in the Prime universe. But alot of questions about its quality prevent me from be excited.

There is some concerns this series is going to cover Axanar and thats why Paramount has jumped down the Axanar fan films throat. If true thats going to double fuck it. One there is going to be some resentment from fans. They are going to be rightly or wrongly pissed off that a full spread of torpedoes was fired at a fan film because an actual tv series didn't want the competition. People would probably pissed about how they went about it. I'm sure there'd be far less resentment if the powers that be asked the Axanar team to stop rather then going full sue mode, actually have some respect.

Two, there is always going to be comparisons to Prelude and the planned film and the tv series, people are going to maybe see the series as inferior especially if what CG we've seen doesn't improve.

If its not about Axanar then people are going to wonder why we've never heard of this big incident that is apparently supposed to be important and only a short time before Kirk was bedding anything vaguely feminine.

I'll admit though, not exactly broken up about Fuller leaving the series. Other then Trek the only thing I've seen of his that I really liked was Dead Like Me. His writing for Trek left alot to be desired. He wasn't the worst but he certainly had some massive stinkers like Spirit Folk, Fury, Barge of the Dead and Friendship One.

As an aside there seems to be some low level discontent with how Fuller was casting the show. Despite saying he was looking at the shows through a "colorblind prism and a gender-blind prism" he would later make race, gender, and sexuality based casting decisions like making the protagonist a female minority and an openly gay character.

Nobody has a problem with characters like that but some DO have a problem with seemingly creating a character around a trait. Instead of a character who is a female minority its a female minority character, instead of a character who is gay its a gay character.

It also seems to not really mesh with the being color or gender blind. Doing things that way would require casting a person who is the best qualified regardless of skin color or gender or whatever, just talent.

I can see why some people have concerns though I'd think, I'd hope, that Fuller or whoever is in charge of writing now wouldn't be such a shit writer to write stereotypes.

[Crazedwraith]

Holy heck. I had no idea Fuller was involved for DS9 and a shitload of Voyager.

[The Romulan Republic]

As an aside there seems to be some low level discontent with how Fuller was casting the show. Despite saying he was looking at the shows through a "colorblind prism and a gender-blind prism" he would later make race, gender, and sexuality based casting decisions like making the protagonist a female minority and an openly gay character.

Nobody has a problem with characters like that but some DO have a problem with seemingly creating a character around a trait. Instead of a character who is a female minority its a female minority character, instead of a character who is gay its a gay character.

It also seems to not really mesh with the being color or gender blind. Doing things that way would require casting a person who is the best qualified regardless of skin color or gender or whatever, just talent.

I can see why some people have concerns though I'd think, I'd hope, that Fuller or whoever is in charge of writing now wouldn't be such a shit writer to write stereotypes.

And yet, the only evidence you offer that he was making "race, gender, and sexuality based casting decisions" is... the fact that he had a character that belongs to certain demographics. The implication of that is that you see such a character as inherently objectionable, that you see any character that fits those demographics as automatically being written for political purposes (despite non-white gay women obviously existing by probably the hundreds of millions worldwide in the real world), and therefore negative.

Why is it innately political, and therefore offensive, to have a character that checks the three boxes of female, minority (I presume you mean racial minority from context), and openly gay, yet not inherently political and offensive to have a character that checks all three boxes of male, white, and heterosexual?

Your post only makes sense if, consciously or subconsciously, you are treating certain groups (like white heterosexual men) as the default, the norm, and other groups as anomalies to the point that the only reason to include them would be to push an agenda.

[Joun_Lord]

[And yet, the only evidence you offer that he was making "race, gender, and sexuality based casting decisions" is... the fact that he had a character that belongs to certain demographics. The implication of that is that you see such a character as inherently objectionable, that you see any character that fits those demographics as automatically being written for political purposes (despite non-white gay women obviously existing by probably the hundreds of millions worldwide in the real world), and therefore negative.

Why is it innately political, and therefore offensive, to have a character that checks the three boxes of female, minority (I presume you mean racial minority from context), and openly gay, yet not inherently political and offensive to have a character that checks all three boxes of male, white, and heterosexual?

Your post only makes sense if, consciously or subconsciously, you are treating certain groups (like white heterosexual men) as the default, the norm, and other groups as anomalies to the point that the only reason to include them would be to push an agenda.

The fact he has made the lead a female minority even before actually casting the role shows he was making those type casting decisions. Thats why it could be seen as political, because its not some minority woman being cast in a role its a role locked for a minority woman in what was supposed to be a color blind and gender blind casting. Now personally I don't think its political (or offensive), I think its a character written a certain way and boneheaded news media make it seem a big deal and make it seem political.

Though something being political is not inherently offensive unless someone is some whiny baby who can't handle anything different from their pea brained opinion. It would be political though if a role (especially a non established role that doesn't have a set character look) that could be open to anybody but was open only to white hetero dudes and would possibly with probable reason be seen as offensive. People think its offensive that Doctor Who and James Bond are supposed to remain white dudes rather then opening them open to anybody who is talented enough to play them to get the part. The same I would assume would be true in reverse.

When a group or person or whatever is being included to push boundaries, when included just to be able to check of a checkbox then yeah, a reasonable argument can be made that its done to push an agenda. Of course Trek has always been pushing boundaries and had agendas (good or bad, showing positive interracial and LGBT stuff is good while implying rape is funny if its a guy and something that women should be okay with or a natural life free of technology is superior is not so good) but some people might not want political stuff in their pew pew actiony sci-fi show (which makes me wonder why they have watched any Trek at all) or have concerns (which I share) that agenda driven characters in the hands of a shit writer (a shit writer that had some woman temporarily kill herself to save her moms soul and everyone was okay with that) are gonna be shitty characters too reliant of stereotypes or just one note.

[JI_Joe84]

Well here it is September and just saw the pilot for STD.

Wow, I am liking it. The Fedie ship looks great (but it's not the discovery) the Klingon's look, holly duck how do they even get around with those over "built" facial features?
Their ships look nothing like any Klingon ship I've ever seen.
Other than the Fed ship capt. Sitting around blinded by that ummm satalite? After being told some one saw Klingon's. I was thinking Darwin Award stupidity the whole time that part was playing out.
Why didn't they run? If only to get far enough back so they could see any inbounds, like oh I dunno a whole Klingon fleet coming to see who messing around with one of their sacred space thingies? Gawd that was stupid.
I for the life of me can't recall what the fed ships name was, sounded kind of Chinese sorry.
What did every one else think? Any one else catch it?

[JLTucker]

I heard the CG is shit, which is inexcusable. Any truth to that? I’m watching it later today.

[Tandrax218]

Wow

So i watched 2 episodes that make the pilot. This thing is gonna be really good.
I love the Klingons. Before they were smelly space barbarians, but now , holy shit they look epic, savage and deep.
The klingon armor, esthetics and everything fits into place perfectly! ..

Weapons and phasors and all the boom boo look awesome..

But the only thing that is still stupid is the Federations "we come in peace crap.
I aloso noted the whole Darwin award part with "uuu look Klingons, lets wait here and die" "Why run from danger when we can be goodie two shoes retards in space" +

[Burak Gazan]

Speaking of retards....
Mikey: her entire idea, was take this Klingon bigshot alive, as a means of negotiating something out of the disaster
Cool idea. So, send a 2-person boarding party (most retarded boarding attempt since Nemesis...) consisting of the CO and XO. Who of course encounter resistance. Neither of them have backup weapons. And the Captain eventually stabbed in the chest by the Klingon (shocker) so what does Mikey do? With a clear shot in back to take this guy down? She switches to KILL and burns him down. And leaves her captain behind, presumably dead (assist there from the retard science officer)
Well
Enjoy your now-endless holy war with the Klingon Empire....
The one thing she said was a very bad thing to do? SHE DOES. Now, THAT, is a special kind of stupid

[biostem]

SPOILERS INBOUND!

Spoiler

So Fed ships literally have no optical sensors? All sensors somehow form the image without actually, well, looking at the target with simple light? There is no reason why a shuttle couldn't have navigated the path taken by Mikey, or at least have another person accompany her in another suit. And of course the log files are conveniently destroyed. How did the Klingons get there so quickly, given that the Fed reinforcements were already alerted and en route, before the Klingons sent the signal? Were all the Fed ships destroyed in that battle? Unless there is going to be some serious PR spin by Starfleet, making Mikey out to be the sole cause of the war, I can't see how people could reasonably blame her. The preview for the season seems to make it out the the Discovery is either a penal ship of some sort, or its captain was able to pull strings to get her restored to service - they showed a scene of what appeared to be a prison shuttle, but it landed on the Discovery instead. There was also a shot of the Discovery blowing up, so I don't know how that'll fit in, (bad dream, simulation, another long-range mind-meld, perhaps)?

[Burak Gazan]

Blaming Mikey for the war, I can't see
All the other charges though? Hell yes

[biostem]

I don't know if I should find it amusing or worrisome, that the ship's computer is open to being persuaded by someone in the brig.

[biostem]

Blaming Mikey for the war, I can't see
All the other charges though? Hell yes

Agreed. I wonder how much info Starfleet has on the "Vulcan hello", however...

[bilateralrope]

- Visual changes on everything. I can accept the ship looking like a bit like ENT era ship when they admit that it's an old ship. But I can't accept other changes, like klingons looking nothing like we have seen before, or phasers being pulses instead of beams.
- ST:D is set 10 years before TOS. In TOS, the only non-human on the ship was Spock. Here we have species never heard of before.
- We could create a new vulcan character for our story. But lets used an existing character. One that creates a lot of problems.

I'm thinking that all the differences from TOS are there so that people complaining about the obvious nitpicks drown out people complaining about the story. Which doesn't impress me:
- The story seemed to say that the Federation ships should have shot first. That violence before attempting peace is the correct option.
- Booby trapping a corpse to hurt the enemy after the fighting has stopped is a very disgusting thing to do. So much for the Federation's moral high ground.
- Vulcans, being masters of logic, don't make the 'Vulcan Hello' known to the rest of the Federation.
- Does the idea of raising a human child to be emotionless seem like child abuse to you ?

As a Trek series, I'm not impressed. Especially after the latest episode of The Orville.

If this was a new sci-fi property, without the Trek label, I don't have anything good to say about it beyond the special effects.

I don't know if I should find it amusing or worrisome, that the ship's computer is open to being persuaded by someone in the brig.

I can see the Federation setting a policy that, if they have to choose between prisoners dying or escaping, they choose to let them escape in most cases.

[tezunegari]

Just finished watching the first two episodes and I enjoyed it.

I still will consider Discovery a distinct timeline and not part of the Prime Universe.

Blaming Mikey for the war, I can't see
All the other charges though? Hell yes

In my oppinion the blame lies with the Captain and the Admiral. They were ignoring the known cultural values of the klingons, applying human/federation values of prefered peaceful interaction. They seem to have a mindset of "they are like us". They are not.

Another thing I find interesting is that the "vulcan hello" seems to be unknown to federation officers, so the Vulcan High Command or at least their diplomatic service can be held accountable. Even if the vulcan hello won't work for the Federation... it plays to the cultural values of the klingons and should be part of every briefing about klingons under "Diplomacy with Klingons: A vulcan solution."

TNG had a take on that problem in an episode where Wesley was taking a starfleet academy entry test, he and an instructor met another officer in a hallway. The officer was rude and confrontational, Wesley responded in kind because he recognized the species and their cultural approach to being nice - they saw it as disrespectful and an indication that you are hiding your true intentions.

- The story seemed to say that the Federation ships should have shot first. That violence before attempting peace is the correct option.

To the klingons the peaceful approach of the Federation is a threat. Attacking them is not. The vulcans did it and for them it worked. They apparently established somewhat peaceful interaction with the klingons. So in this case, yes, violence is the solution.

[bilateralrope]

- The story seemed to say that the Federation ships should have shot first. That violence before attempting peace is the correct option.

To the klingons the peaceful approach of the Federation is a threat. Attacking them is not. The vulcans did it and for them it worked. They apparently established somewhat peaceful interaction with the klingons. So in this case, yes, violence is the solution.

Is that detail new to Discovery or not ?

If it's new to Discovery, it's still the writers altering the established details of klingons to create a situation where violence is the correct option. My complaint still stands.

I know that Kirk was able to interact with klingons without shooting them on sight. I haven't watched much of Enterprise, so I have to ask: Was that also true for Archer ?

I'm looking forward to the Discovery writers completely ignoring the differences between their klingons and TOS klingons. Despite only 10 years in-universe separating them.

[tezunegari]

- The story seemed to say that the Federation ships should have shot first. That violence before attempting peace is the correct option.

To the klingons the peaceful approach of the Federation is a threat. Attacking them is not. The vulcans did it and for them it worked. They apparently established somewhat peaceful interaction with the klingons. So in this case, yes, violence is the solution.

Is that detail new to Discovery or not ?

If it's new to Discovery, it's still the writers altering the established details of klingons to create a situation where violence is the correct option. My complaint still stands.

I know that Kirk was able to interact with klingons without shooting them on sight. I haven't watched much of Enterprise, so I have to ask: Was that also true for Archer ?

I'm looking forward to the Discovery writers completely ignoring the differences between their klingons and TOS klingons. Despite only 10 years in-universe separating them.

Yeah, it's new to Discovery but considering how much they changed the klingons it's not surprising to me.
To me it appears to be a brain bug... the original klingons where confrontational communists-in-space, the later movies and TNG turned them into Space-Vikings. This seems to be just another iteration of turning them even more into warrior-society with religious zealots.

But it also makes the klingons more alien. Humans and members of the Federation have a common ground: peaceful coexistence.

Klingons do not want that. They want battle. To them "We come in Peace." is a threat.

Sarek explained it. "A ship got into their space. They shot immediately. Since then we opened fire the moment we encountered them. That got them to talk."

Personally I completely tune out everything I know about previous Star Trek while watching Discovery. Otherwise there are too many problems with continuity.

If I may make an personal assumption: Discovery is a new timeline created by Archer stopping/preventing the Temporal Cold War in the Prime-Timeline. The Prime timeline is where the temporal cold war has happened/ happens/ will happen /will have happened. (Daniels put Archer back into the Prime-timeline to stabilize the macguffing field)

[Prometheus Unbound]

They apparently established somewhat peaceful interaction with the klingons. So in this case, yes, violence is the solution.

Is that detail new to Discovery or not ?

No.

They do this several times to Klingons. Picard suddenly yelling and squaring up to guards, Riker on his officer exchange attacks the first officer, Nog yells at Martok to move along the promenade, just off the top of my head.

Nearly all times this happens, the Klingons at first look shocked, then annoyed, then they burst out laughing and make a comment about "courage" and then move on.


This is how Klingons work.