Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

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Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I just saw this today, and figured that it warranted a review thread.

Its quite a lot like the first film, really: Lots of flashy, well-constructed absurdity taken to ridiculous levels. Spoiler
It doesn't really address the effects of a global outbreak of mass insanity in the last film, much as it quickly glosses over the long-term effects of this film's events at the end, though it has a surprising amount of continuity with its predecessor. Likewise, I again felt that it had what could be considered a Right-wing political bent at times (elected leaders are portrayed as corrupt while royalty is portrayed sympathetically, sexism, etc.), but its so wilfully preposterous that I feel a bit ridiculous myself trying to do a political analysis of it. Its more of a mixed bag this time in any case, I think- the primary villain, for example, could probably equally be seen as an anti-feminist straw man or a parody of 50's housewives, if one is inclined to make such an analysis, while a couple other villains are pretty clearly Right-wing stereotypes.

You could also get into all sorts of interesting social and political ramifications of the identity switching/cybernetic/drone tech. in this film... but it really isn't that kind of film. Its ridiculous, over-the-top, not-always-for-the-weak of stomach insanity, very well-executed, but with some surprisingly powerful and emotional moments.

The only thing that seriously offended me (in a film where people get churned up in meat grinders and made into burgers on-screen) was the part where Eggsy has to seduce one of the villains' girlfriend so that he can implant a tracking device in her vagina, complete with close up of him sticking his hand in her panties (yes, really). The main ethical issue with this is portrayed as it being him cheating on his girlfriend, and not the fact that this could be considered rape by deception, and the film really doesn't play it that way. Said woman's subsequent death could also be seen as "the woman being punished for being a victim", though I very much doubt that that was the intent. It left a bad taste in my mouth.

Oh, and I'm kind of pissed by Roxey's death. She was sidelined into a fairly minimal role in the first film, and I was hoping that they'd give her a bigger role this time. It looked at first like they were going to develop her (purely platonic) relationship with Eggsey a bit, but then she gets killed off in the first act, and while its effectively shocking and horrifying, its also a pretty blatant case of fridge-stuffing, and a waste of a character.

I was half-expecting (wishful thinking) for her to turn out to be alive and come back for the finale, since we never saw a body, but no such luck. Then again, Harry came back, so maybe she'll show up in the third film as a cyborg or something. I'd like that.

On a similar note, introducing Eggsey's black buddy, for pretty much no reason but to have him die in the same attack that kills Roxey. I'm sure it wasn't their intent, but it immediately brought to mind the old "black guy dies first" cliché. Because they literally introduced a black guy so he could die first. :roll:

On the other hand, I very much liked that the Swedish princess from the first film actually returned, now as Eggsey's long-term love interest. Turning the last film's gag/one-night stand into a recurring character, with a real emotional connection to the protagonist, played very effectively against expectations and sexism. I approve. In fact, this film did a good job of surprising me repeatedly.

The villain also had a shear sense of creepiness and terror like few I've ever seen, that I think the first film's antagonists lacked, for me. As well as being Umbridge-level detestable (and that's a very deliberate comparison on my part- her veneer of saccharine cheerfulness overlying sadism and malice is very much reminiscent of everyone's least favourite DADA teacher). She'd actually work as a villain in a more serious film, I think, while still not feeling out of place in this one.

In fact, the performances were generally quite good.

One more note: My first response to the President using the crisis to stack all the drug users in America in cages and kill them off (huh, I wonder how the rest of the world's leaders responded- the film just focusses on America, Britain, and a bit of Sweden :wink: ), was to think that it was over the top villainy even for this film.

Then I remembered what happened on November Eighth.

I mean, I'm not saying Trump has reached that level yet, but when the real PotUS is basically a cartoon villain, I guess films with over-the-top evil politicians kind of have to dial it up another notch to keep from seeming too much like real life. :wink:

I mean, at this point, if a film had the President plotting to poison puppies on national television, I'd probably shrug and say "Yeah, I can see that".

On a not-unrelated note, the scene at the end where said President gets impeached and taken away in handcuffs still gives me a warm fuzzy feeling every time I think of it. :)

Though really, its a really merciful villain fate for one of these films. I mean, didn't the last film blow up Obama's head, along with most of the other world leaders?
In the end, I think that the fairest thing I can say about The Golden Circle is that its a sequel which thoroughly lives up to its predecessor. If you loved Kingsman: The Secret Service, you'll probably love this film too. If you hated the first film, you'll probably hate this one. If, like me, you were somewhat ambivalent to the first film, you'll probably be somewhat ambivalent to this one too. Personally, I mostly enjoyed it. A few things rubbed me the wrong way. But I don't really regret spending 12.50 and a few hours of my time on it.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Oh, and I think I'm a bit of an Elton John fan now. :D If you've seen the film, you'll understand.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by Solauren »

Actually, R. Republic, having just seen it.

I think that what you viewed as 'Right wing' stuff, was actually meant as parody.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Solauren wrote: 2017-10-01 06:29pm Actually, R. Republic, having just seen it.

I think that what you viewed as 'Right wing' stuff, was actually meant as parody.
Quite possibly. Like I said, there's stuff in the film that could be seen as Left or Right wing, but I feel kind of stupid trying to do an in-depth analysis of it, because... its Kingsman.

Actually, in case I came off as more critical than I meant to be, I will say that, while their were some aspects of the film that were off-putting to me, I actually think that I liked this one more than the first one, and I respect that it managed to be utterly ridiculous and still have both more style, and more heart, and more dramatic tension, than probably any other film I've seen yet this year. Its deliberately over-the-top and outrageous style might be off-putting to some people (as I said, I'm somewhat ambivalent to it myself), but if you don't mind that, its definitely a well-made film.

And, Colin Firth. :)
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

I've seen it twice now (local cinema does £4 a film, any time, so why not?) and it is, like the first, a ludicrous and over-the-top film that is nevertheless awesome. It ties together well with the previous film, most especially in how Charlie survived, since we see everything that happened to him and it's entirely plausible. The way Harry comes back is again done well and becomes a useful plot point.

The only thing I wasn't a fan of was killing off all the other Kingsmen besides Eggsy and Merlin. Given that we see Roxy try to make a run for it, I'm hopeful that she somehow survived (maybe they have uber-reinforced closets just in case?). I know it's needed for the plot, but still.

And Merlin, damn. Mark Strong really sells it. I do love the scene where he and Eggsy are drinking toasts and getting very drunk, and then Merlin comes up with "I think we should drink to Scotland!"

Also, I can't recall offhand but I think Brandon was in the first film as Eggsy's friend, so it may not be "introduce black guy just to have him die."
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Eternal_Freedom wrote: 2017-10-02 12:17pm I've seen it twice now (local cinema does £4 a film, any time, so why not?) and it is, like the first, a ludicrous and over-the-top film that is nevertheless awesome. It ties together well with the previous film, most especially in how Charlie survived, since we see everything that happened to him and it's entirely plausible. The way Harry comes back is again done well and becomes a useful plot point.
Yeah.
The only thing I wasn't a fan of was killing off all the other Kingsmen besides Eggsy and Merlin. Given that we see Roxy try to make a run for it, I'm hopeful that she somehow survived (maybe they have uber-reinforced closets just in case?). I know it's needed for the plot, but still.
Agreed reg. Roxy.
And Merlin, damn. Mark Strong really sells it. I do love the scene where he and Eggsy are drinking toasts and getting very drunk, and then Merlin comes up with "I think we should drink to Scotland!"
Strong was good, yeah. In fact, the whole cast was pretty solid.

Merlin's death is one of the most awesome I've ever seen. And surprisingly touching. Like I said, for an absolutely absurd action parody, this film has a surprising amount of heart to it.

Also, I can't recall offhand but I think Brandon was in the first film as Eggsy's friend, so it may not be "introduce black guy just to have him die."
Possible. I don't recall all the bit roles in the first film, since I only saw it the one time. Hope you're right, since it would heavily reduce the "unfortunate implications" of that scene.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by Solauren »

Actually, Brandon was in the first movie. The other two guys were new for this movie.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Ah, fair enough then.
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"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by Crazedwraith »

Saw it this evening. Very much liked it. It was just over the top fun the whole way. A couple of missteps as others have pointed out. Killing Roxy was annoying but expected from the trailer. Likewise bringing back Harry with barely a hitch. (I'd hoped there would be a twist there.) Really, bringing back the mentor gives you a chance to show the student surpassing them which is not the case. Hart is awesome, perfectly analyses the situation with Whiskey, kicks arse, takes names etc. (Maybe the next film?)

The thing is it's very hard to hold anything against the film when it's so silly and intentionally over the top. Merlin's death was standard fare as they come and kind of annoying. We get one mentor back, kill the other. But it's done so frigging well. Though henchmen, you know about the mines, you have guns. Why do you approach with in blast radius?

On a "patriotism" level, while it eventually came down to Harry and Eggsy they seemed to be shilling for the Statesman a lot. The ratio of two Kingsmen to engage one Statesman annoyed me.

But yes much fun, I recommend.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-10-09 06:20pm Saw it this evening. Very much liked it. It was just over the top fun the whole way. A couple of missteps as others have pointed out. Killing Roxy was annoying but expected from the trailer. Likewise bringing back Harry with barely a hitch. (I'd hoped there would be a twist there.) Really, bringing back the mentor gives you a chance to show the student surpassing them which is not the case. Hart is awesome, perfectly analyses the situation with Whiskey, kicks arse, takes names etc. (Maybe the next film?)
I think that the film did show Eggsy surpassing Harry in one respect- that Eggsy is able to have a functional romantic/social life while being a Kingsman, and Harry wasn't.

I also think that the final fight did a good job of, if not showing Eggsy surpassing Harry, then at any rate showing that Eggsy and Harry are now equals. Partners, as opposed to mentor and student.

And personally, I had no problem with how Harry came back.

But yeah, Roxy's death irritates the hell out of me. I'm usually not a fan of bringing back "dead" characters casually, especially when they've already pulled that trick once with Harry, but I'd give them a pass if they brought Roxy back, just because it feels like a cheap, derivative waste of a character for her to die like that.

Plus, this series is male-centric enough as it is.
The thing is it's very hard to hold anything against the film when it's so silly and intentionally over the top.
Yeah, this.

If this were almost any other film, I'd probably be a lot harder on it.
Merlin's death was standard fare as they come and kind of annoying. We get one mentor back, kill the other. But it's done so frigging well. Though henchmen, you know about the mines, you have guns. Why do you approach with in blast radius?
Pretty much agreed.
On a "patriotism" level, while it eventually came down to Harry and Eggsy they seemed to be shilling for the Statesman a lot. The ratio of two Kingsmen to engage one Statesman annoyed me.

But yes much fun, I recommend.
That's probably partly down to the Statesmen being new characters. We've already had it established that Harry and Eggsy are bad asses. They had to establish how awesome the new guys are.

Besides, the only Statesman who got a lot of action scenes turned out to be a bad guy, and they have to make the villain more dangerous to be threatening to the heroes.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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Re: Kingsman: The Golden Circle (major spoilers).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Also, reg. the guards approaching Merlin rather than just shooting him- I think in the scene, Poppy asks them to bring him in after she hears his singing (probably wanted to lock him up like Elton).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
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