Star Trek: Discovery

[mr friendly guy]

Ok, I am going to have to watch this on DVD, but I have heard it viewed from a review (from someone who got triggered by lack of white men) saying that the Klingons are being invaded by the Federation, and the Klingons are allegory for white nationalists and the Federation are allegory for those advocate open borders or something. So my question is, are the Federation encroaching on Klingon space, or is it unclaimed space which is close to Klingon space and the Klingons perceive it as a threat, like how the Dominion perceive Federation colonies in the gamma quadrant as encroachment.

[Burak Gazan]

We don't know. The initial battle was in what the Feds claimed was their space. The Klingon-spazoids claimed that "that was too close for evil smelly humans and mongrels of the Federation to be, to the pristine Klingon Empire...."
It's not so much a border dispute as a lunatic screaming at a cloud-dispute...

[Dartzap]

I interpreted it as the Klingons being a society of individuals, with an emphasis on personal development, honour blah blah VS the Federation and its absorb-all-the-culture-blob expansionism.

[Burak Gazan]

Which, flies completely in the face of Vulcan beliefs (at least used to be...) IDIC, Infinite Diversity, Infinite Combinations
But this is not our Universe any more

[Prometheus Unbound]

Ok, I am going to have to watch this on DVD, but I have heard it viewed from a review (from someone who got triggered by lack of white men) saying that the Klingons are being invaded by the Federation, and the Klingons are allegory for white nationalists and the Federation are allegory for those advocate open borders or something.

wut

So my question is, are the Federation encroaching on Klingon space, or is it unclaimed space which is close to Klingon space and the Klingons perceive it as a threat, like how the Dominion perceive Federation colonies in the gamma quadrant as encroachment.

They are within established Federation borders - but at the edge of them.

Klingon Leader states "What you call the edge, I call too close." Now he doesn't speak for the Empire. The Federation and the Empire have had little contact in 100 years since Enterprise. This Klingon Leader is a "shinzon" type - taking over.

His issue with the Federation is the same one Quark and Eddington and Garak and Kira had - that the Federation is all feels and peace and nice, but before you know it, you're a member and you abide by their laws. Essentially he is afraid the Federation will naturally expand enough to envelop the Klingon Empire, changing its culture. He wants to make sure that Klingons Remain Klingons.

Now, as we find out later in the show - this is actually what happens - his worst fears come true - by the 26th Century, according to Daniels in Enterprise the Klingon Empire is a member of the Federation.

And throughout TNG and DS9 worf goes on about "the old ways". These are the old ways.

T'Kuvma (Klingon Leader) isn't racist, and he's not doing it like in a "pure blood" way. His issue is one which we've seen from other characters - that the Federation ... influences others. They... "come in peace" - and they do - but they also get their way, most of the time. Praxis / Camp Khitomer - 50 years later proves it. Everything T'Kuvma fears will happen, happens - the Federation come in in the name of Peace and Friendship to Help the Klingons - and it changes them forever.

He's not wrong as much as he is an asshole.

[bilateralrope]

Everything T'Kuvma fears will happen, happens - the Federation come in in the name of Peace and Friendship to Help the Klingons - and it changes them forever.

He's not wrong as much as he is an asshole.

The only thing he got wrong was claiming that he would be unforgettable

[Thanas]

This show is beyond retarded, just like the Nutrek JJ films.

Seriously, fucking pollen warp? And that is not the most stupid thing about it.

[tezunegari]

Rewatched it just Now. And somehow I get the feeling they're describing some Form of Star Wars rakatan force hyperdrive that is using some unifying force field to get where they want to go. Just without the limitation of the Destination having to be strong in the force.

[Burak Gazan]

So, pulling shit out of their ass that no one has EVER heard of before and pretending it's normal.
That seems a clear conclusion
What's REALLY hilarious, is watching some of the youtubers who have been blindly buying the propaganda-prep bullshit, twist themselves into retarded pretzels trying to actually FIT this insanity into the TOS timeline.

[Prometheus Unbound]

So, pulling shit out of their ass that no one has EVER heard of before and pretending it's normal.
That seems a clear conclusion
What's REALLY hilarious, is watching some of the youtubers who have been blindly buying the propaganda-prep bullshit, twist themselves into retarded pretzels trying to actually FIT this insanity into the TOS timeline.

well it obviously didn't work, did it?

[Burak Gazan]

No, but it's like...it's like... Jesus. I don't know what you'd call it. Past belief, somewhere into fanatical Faith, and losing your grip on realty. You gotta have a special kind of mental instability , to continue , with near-100% of your viewing fans are saying, JUST STOP

[Batman]

The fun part is nobody would give a damn if they just admitted 'okay, this isn't prime timeline Trek' (because let's face it, there's no fucking way it is). Even before the JJverse Trek was lousy with alternate realities and parallel universes. Or they could have gone with hard reboot like nBSG did. But noo, they had to claim it's the prime timeline...while utterly and completely failing to make it look that way

[Burak Gazan]

I sort of throat-punched one of them in DM, I sadly admit, asking point-blank, where the FUCK are the Constitutions, since THAT is the prime Starfleet CA , RIGHT NOW. I left out Spock and Chris Pike, who would be on Enterprise , RIGHT NOW, too. But enough, already

[Mange]

Watched the third episode of STD and it was pretty bad. Granted, it took TNG almost three seasons to find its form, but I doubt Discovery will have that luxury.

**Spoilers**

* On the positive side, the engineering set came the closest to TOS so far.

* The revised design of the Discovery is weird (though it's nice see the McQuarrie design). Why have windows along the inner rim of the outer 'ring'?

* The Federation uses hard labor? TOS established that criminals were treated and TNG never mentioned prisons.

* Xenophobia aginst Andorians.

* Breath scan? Seriously?

* The spore drive... In the words of the dying Captain Kirk: "Oh my!"

* A Klingon acting like a coward. No Sto-vo-kor for him.

* What was the creature all about? A side effect of the spore drive?

Star Trek has always been about optimism for the future, but the Abramsverse movies and with this series, it feels as bleak as everything else churned out these days.

[Prometheus Unbound]

Seriously, fucking pollen warp? And that is not the most stupid thing about it.

Oh dear lol.

I guess works from Clarke, Asimov, Banks and Simmons must all be fuckin stupid because all of them have stories involving organic stuff for space travel. Yet they're... (well Banks aside) pretty hard scifi.

They're not using "pollen" to go to warp, they are using some sort of quantum mechanics things they observed with the spores to ... it seems something connected to quantum entanglement - to send information (the ship) somewhere FTL. This spore apparently also lives in SubSpace? Fair enough, we've met enough aliens from Subspace before, a plant doesn't seem any kind of stretch.

[Patroklos]

Again, just like Klingons, there is no benefit to be gained by fucking with warp drives. These are the universal things people love and worked. Its as if they observed the decline of trek in the 2000s and decided to replicate all the flaws as faithfully as possible while throwing out the good!

[bilateralrope]

T'Kuvma (Klingon Leader) isn't racist, and he's not doing it like in a "pure blood" way. His issue is one which we've seen from other characters - that the Federation ... influences others. They... "come in peace" - and they do - but they also get their way, most of the time. Praxis / Camp Khitomer - 50 years later proves it. Everything T'Kuvma fears will happen, happens - the Federation come in in the name of Peace and Friendship to Help the Klingons - and it changes them forever.

He's not wrong as much as he is an asshole.

I thought a bit more about this and realized that T'Kuvma probably had a good plan. One that would work. If the Klingons win the war with the Federation, there is no more Federation to influence the Klingons. If the Federation wins, they probably generate enough anger among Klingons for there to be another war. Either way, the Klingons keep to their traditions.

A plan that only failed because godlike beings decided to get involved.

[Mange]

I'm looking forward to the Discovery writers completely ignoring the differences between their klingons and TOS klingons. Despite only 10 years in-universe separating them.

Apparently it's a lost house in hibernation for 200 years

I'm more interested in them ignoring the differences in the uniforms (and why both the Shenzhou and Discovery are using The Enterprise's insignia.) Especially since the Enterprise is meeting the Talosians precisely when Discovery kicks off.

An article posted at the Official Star Trek site yesterday tries to debunk the notion that crew members of different ships were supposed to wear different insignia (claiming one example, the Exeter, was an "anomaly" made by the costume designer) and that the arrowhead insignia is the Starfleet insignia: StarTrek.com

What's REALLY hilarious, is watching some of the youtubers who have been blindly buying the propaganda-prep bullshit, twist themselves into retarded pretzels trying to actually FIT this insanity into the TOS timeline.

Well, from what I've seen there's no point to be critical of Discovery on the Trekkie forums...

[Prometheus Unbound]

Again, just like Klingons, there is no benefit to be gained by fucking with warp drives. These are the universal things people love and worked. Its as if they observed the decline of trek in the 2000s and decided to replicate all the flaws as faithfully as possible while throwing out the good!

They're not fucking with anything.

Overall, this experiment clearly doesn't work in the long term. We know this because they don't have Mushroom Drive in TOS and beyond. They still have standard warp drive - they use that all the time in Discovery. Nothing has changed.

They made it explicitly clear, this is an experimental form of travel - which does have precedent on Trek - the Iconian Gateways. But whilst they got it working, the Federation can't. They've had similar level experiments before - Omega, Genesis, Soliton Waves etc.

[The Grim Squeaker]

+Welp, the ep3 discussion about Physics/Biology made my yeeth twinge (I have a number of friends studying Biophysics).

[CetaMan]

Okay, mixed feelings about this so far.

Stuff I liked:
-Blue pulse phasers, nice nod to the blue pulse phasers used in TOS. Seeing orange beams would of irked me.
-Nice to see some alien diversity on the ships, would of liked to see some aforementioned/established aliens though.
-reference to Klingon prophecy mentioned in previous shows
-I actually liked the prison shuttle stuff, though instead of "prison" it could of been "reeducation facility". Perhaps that practice is new by the time of TOS by a few years, and the federation or at least earth still has a need for prisons.

Stuff I did not like:
-Klingons, had they had a variety of all shown types including the human-augment ones, more tng-era styles and the new ones representing different houses, I then would of liked this. I though they said they would do this? If so why didn't they?
-the beacon sequence could of been handled better, they fucked up the speed of established warp, and the lack of blast doors was kinda odd.
-Spore-transwarp - we know it fails given its never mentioned again, but really?

Characters I still need to decide on, not going to judge after 3 episodes. This could go either way.

Klingon fleet composition I can get behind. Its the segregated houses and their ornate and varied ships which they presumable standardize into the loved D-series of ships during the war. Or the writers/artists will screw this up.

The federation fleet I was unsure about. It would of been better to see some existing designs of the era along with newer(made for the show) vessels. Hell, they could of thrown a Connie, some one-off TOS ships types and a Kelvin/Einstein along with the newer vessels as a homage to the fans of previous shows, or just to give some consistency.

[biostem]

Again, just like Klingons, there is no benefit to be gained by fucking with warp drives. These are the universal things people love and worked. Its as if they observed the decline of trek in the 2000s and decided to replicate all the flaws as faithfully as possible while throwing out the good!

They're not fucking with anything.

Overall, this experiment clearly doesn't work in the long term. We know this because they don't have Mushroom Drive in TOS and beyond. They still have standard warp drive - they use that all the time in Discovery. Nothing has changed.

They made it explicitly clear, this is an experimental form of travel - which does have precedent on Trek - the Iconian Gateways. But whilst they got it working, the Federation can't. They've had similar level experiments before - Omega, Genesis, Soliton Waves etc.

What confuses me is that it seems to act more like a transporter, at least on the human-sized scale that the captain demonstrated to Michael. It also raises the question as to why they don't use this tech to just transport bombs to Klingon ships, if it does work as advertised. Personally, my thought is that either what Michael experienced was actually a hallucination, which the captain used to leverage her mistrust that they were actually developing weapons, by convincing her it wasn't a bio-weapon, or that the "fungi-warp drive" has a sort of snap-back effect, and they can literally only transport an object to a location for a few seconds, after which they have to redirect the target...

[tezunegari]

When stamos and straal were discusing results the Choice of words was intriguing.

There seems to be a new Unit called a Speirein.

Discovery so far can only reach Speirein 12 while the Glenn achieved at least Speirein 240 and the accident happened either during or after a Sperein 900 test. Apparently the Glenn didn't have to grow its own spores.

Curious is that stamos said "that displacement is too massive" instead of "too far".

Maybe a Speirein is a measure of how Deep you enter the "mycelial network".

[Patroklos]

So I finally suffered through this shit show. There are so many stupid technical, continuity, and plot errors its really hard to even contemplate cataloguing them. The true problem with this show is the characters.

1.) There is only one. This show is 100% about one person. And she is horrible, absolutely fucking horrible. There is no development of anyone else. Gone is the ensemble of colleagues and friends working together as a team. Sure all the main characters of the previous shows were not equally important but they were not ignored.

Will we get this in future episodes? Don't know, don't care. I gave this a couple hours of my life and I see no reason to PAY EXTRA to give this abortion the chance to dig itself out of the early grave of its pilot.

2.) Mutiny. Yeah there are TONs of episodes of past series where main characters take over the ship but there is always some nefarious influence causing it to happen or some sort of reason developed in detail. This is not the case here. There was totally on the initiative of the unaltered main character against a CO who was being infinitely reasonable. And did she announce her intentions to relieve the CO as per protocols we know Starfleet has? You know, maybe ask the third officer for his opinion or support? Nope, she physically assaults her CO and then LIES to the rest of the crew about why she is not to be followed. Its not like the CO was even being a dick, she just wouldn't take her word about STARTING A FUCKING WAR without more than 30 seconds of deliberation (remember those "boring" ready room conferences on ENT-D when they had similar situations?). This was just an arrogant prick know it all getting her way by any means necessary.

3.) Why the fuck should I trust or even care about her as a character from this point on? Other than to maybe see her sucked out of an airlock, which isn't the best draw for your series main character. She is evil, and not in the so brilliant or demented to be interesting evil, but the banal evil of arrogant incompetence. How can you not want her to fail at every corner from here on out? Nobody was watching Walter White week after week hoping for him to die miserably. We were secretly rooting for him, looking for what new way he escapes, and that discomforting feeling of wanting an anti-hero to win is the hook.

Whatever, a few technical things of note that just make you wonder why writers get paid more than McDonald's workers...

1.) So you have holograms. Got it. I understand the arguments about not being able to recreate TOS 100% because of what our understanding of the future is now vs the 1960s. I don't think those grounds excuse holograms, but whatever. But why the hell do you have to be so freaking stupid about it? These holograms are constantly walking around yet they never walk through furniture on the viewers side, as if every room with a holo coms is EXACTLY the same. Hell, they even sit on furniture present in the receivers end like they have an object of the exact dimensions and relative position on the senders end!

2.) Lets set aside the ridiculous comments of injured officer nobody talking to main character in the brig before he gets sucked into space (DRAMA, wait why do I care about you again?). The damage to that brig was verrrrrry specific. It literally carved out a perfect "U" right around the exact dimensions of main character's cell. So specific that it didn't impact the cell's original force field projectors or its power supply (for either forcefield OR the lights). Hell, its supper nice that the brig was apparently designed so that it can protect the prisoners from the very specific hazard of explosive decompression via emergency force fields (I assume that's what the shift from red to blue is). "THATS A GOOD IDEA ON A SPACES SHIP IDIOT" Oh, I agree, which is why it would be nice if the rest of the ship had this feature...

3.) And once again we get a major SF title with this stupid can be seen everywhere instantly VISUALLY stunt. It was stupid in TFA, its stupid here. Your average audience doesn't know much about physics, but they do understand that you can't see things taking place light years away in real time. If you can't pull the physics wool over the viewers eyes in these simple basic details, or won't, this is essentially just a fantasy magic series.

[Prometheus Unbound]

So I finally suffered through this shit show. There are so many stupid technical, continuity, and plot errors its really hard to even contemplate cataloguing them. The true problem with this show is the characters.

1.) There is only one. This show is 100% about one person. And she is horrible, absolutely fucking horrible. There is no development of anyone else. Gone is the ensemble of colleagues and friends working together as a team. Sure all the main characters of the previous shows were not equally important but they were not ignored.

Will we get this in future episodes? Don't know, don't care. I gave this a couple hours of my life and I see no reason to PAY EXTRA to give this abortion the chance to dig itself out of the early grave of its pilot.

2.) Mutiny. Yeah there are TONs of episodes of past series where main characters take over the ship but there is always some nefarious influence causing it to happen or some sort of reason developed in detail. This is not the case here. There was totally on the initiative of the unaltered main character against a CO who was being infinitely reasonable. And did she announce her intentions to relieve the CO as per protocols we know Starfleet has? You know, maybe ask the third officer for his opinion or support? Nope, she physically assaults her CO and then LIES to the rest of the crew about why she is not to be followed. Its not like the CO was even being a dick, she just wouldn't take her word about STARTING A FUCKING WAR without more than 30 seconds of deliberation (remember those "boring" ready room conferences on ENT-D when they had similar situations?). This was just an arrogant prick know it all getting her way by any means necessary.

3.) Why the fuck should I trust or even care about her as a character from this point on? Other than to maybe see her sucked out of an airlock, which isn't the best draw for your series main character. She is evil, and not in the so brilliant or demented to be interesting evil, but the banal evil of arrogant incompetence. How can you not want her to fail at every corner from here on out? Nobody was watching Walter White week after week hoping for him to die miserably. We were secretly rooting for him, looking for what new way he escapes, and that discomforting feeling of wanting an anti-hero to win is the hook.

Whatever, a few technical things of note that just make you wonder why writers get paid more than McDonald's workers...

1.) So you have holograms. Got it. I understand the arguments about not being able to recreate TOS 100% because of what our understanding of the future is now vs the 1960s. I don't think those grounds excuse holograms, but whatever. But why the hell do you have to be so freaking stupid about it? These holograms are constantly walking around yet they never walk through furniture on the viewers side, as if every room with a holo coms is EXACTLY the same. Hell, they even sit on furniture present in the receivers end like they have an object of the exact dimensions and relative position on the senders end!

2.) Lets set aside the ridiculous comments of injured officer nobody talking to main character in the brig before he gets sucked into space (DRAMA, wait why do I care about you again?). The damage to that brig was verrrrrry specific. It literally carved out a perfect "U" right around the exact dimensions of main character's cell. So specific that it didn't impact the cell's original force field projectors or its power supply (for either forcefield OR the lights). Hell, its supper nice that the brig was apparently designed so that it can protect the prisoners from the very specific hazard of explosive decompression via emergency force fields (I assume that's what the shift from red to blue is). "THATS A GOOD IDEA ON A SPACES SHIP IDIOT" Oh, I agree, which is why it would be nice if the rest of the ship had this feature...

3.) And once again we get a major SF title with this stupid can be seen everywhere instantly VISUALLY stunt. It was stupid in TFA, its stupid here. Your average audience doesn't know much about physics, but they do understand that you can't see things taking place light years away in real time. If you can't pull the physics wool over the viewers eyes in these simple basic details, or won't, this is essentially just a fantasy magic series.

Well the good news for you is, it's voluntary to watch. So I assume that next week you won't be posting about episode 4, right? Because you really don't like the show?