Something big

[PhoenixKnig]

Having administrative facilities on a ship that might go into battle seems like a bad idea. Ships are expensive, and turning one into a command ship would be very much so.
If you wanted to divorce your administration from any planet, you'd be better served by building a base than a battleship.

One might argue to have the chain of command close to the battlefield for better communication and control

[Imperial528]

To an extent, it would have to be a battleship, or at least guarded/escorted by battleships.

A station is a vulnerable target due to its nature of being, well, more or less stationary. Something akin to Executor is mobile at least. And, of course, they tried the mobile battlestation, which did not work out all that well.

Of course, bringing such a ship into battle may not be a wise decision, no matter how capable it is. That said, the real value in such a ship is not the material cost in hardware, but the personnel aboard. If an Executor-as-administration-complex was forced to go into a battle with significant risk, I imagine there would be procedures in place to evacuate all essential-non-combat staff to other vessels to prevent that loss. Without such personnel on board, the ship is essentially just another SSD, if with more office space.

[fractalsponge1]

And, of course, they tried the mobile battlestation, which did not work out all that well.

That was a single critical design flaw (actually, sabotage as we've found). But the idea of the station was solid.

[Imperial528]

Solid in a military sense, yes. But a single target that large seems a bit "all your eggs in one basket" sort of deal in terms of locating your administration, with less than an ideal platform.

The completed DS2 I feel would be more worth that risk, given the better combat capability via the enhanced superlaser. The larger reactor volume probably contributes to a faster hyperdrive as well, I would imagine.

Personally I would rather allow the bulk of administration to be spread out at the ship level even with a flawless Death Star, just to avoid potential decapitation strikes or coups.

[PhoenixKnig]

Solid in a military sense, yes. But a single target that large seems a bit "all your eggs in one basket" sort of deal in terms of locating your administration, with less than an

Is that what Disney is doing with The Supremacy

[Imperial528]

Possibly?

The Supremacy may be the First Order's budget equivalent of the second Death Star (which the Emperor intended to serve as his seat of power)

[evillejedi]

I still believe the supremacy is an Executor-ish SSD that was under construction at some remote deep dock shipyard and at some point they cannibalized the shipyard, surrounding unfinished SSDs and all of the stored supplies, components in the system to make a monster.

Or ILM took the Executor and scaled it width-wise about 10x and called it a day.

[Patroklos]

Solid in a military sense, yes. But a single target that large seems a bit "all your eggs in one basket" sort of deal in terms of locating your administration, with less than an ideal platform.

The completed DS2 I feel would be more worth that risk, given the better combat capability via the enhanced superlaser. The larger reactor volume probably contributes to a faster hyperdrive as well, I would imagine.

Personally I would rather allow the bulk of administration to be spread out at the ship level even with a flawless Death Star, just to avoid potential decapitation strikes or coups.

This is how it works IRL at the fleet level. While there is an Admiral and staff on a flagship, the actual warfare area commanders are largely farmed out to commanders across the fleet (carrier strike group more accurately). A cruiser usually gets AAW commander ( they have an O6 CO) and a destroyer's embarked Commodore (O6) usually gets SUW commander. There is also a secondary designated. Some times some of these get collocates due to circumstances, as obviously the carrier itself will get multiple of there and the aAdmiral will also chose that as their flagship. But in theory it distributes the HQ duties around for resiliency.

[fractalsponge1]

OK, it's time. After 14 years, it's time to redo this mesh. I realized as I was preparing 4k renders that my old ISD model was not really current anymore. I've been itching to do it again since Rogue One's star destroyer came out, and now it's time! This is going to be a long process, but at the end, it's going to be the best star destroyer model made, end of story. The plan is to average references from several sources, so it won't be an exact greeble duplicate of Avenger, but recognizably the same class. It will also eventually serve as the base template for other designs like Tector.

[Crossroads Inc.]

It's Time....
IT'S TIME!!!!
ARE YOU PREPARED????

[PhoenixKnig]

yay

[PhoenixKnig]

OK, it's time.

This is going to be a long process, but at the end, it's going to be the best star destroyer model made, end of story. The plan is to average references from several sources, so it won't be an exact greeble duplicate of Avenger, but recognizably the same class. It will also eventually serve as the base template for other designs like Tector.

Take your time, we will love to see your take on ISDII-like. Sounds like Tector is in the books as well.

[Rhadamantus]

Some questions on Corvette numbers:
Are there hard numbers for the speed, length power, and fighter complement of the Customs Corvettes, Vigil class, Indictor, Aiwha, and Crusader?

[PhoenixKnig]

Some questions on Corvette numbers:
Are there hard numbers for the speed, length power, and fighter complement of the Customs Corvettes, Vigil class, Indictor, Aiwha, and Crusader?

They're around here somewhere in this post topic

[Rhadamantus]

These were the only hard numbers I could find.
Customs: 180m,
Vigil: 254m, 1E21W, 12 Tie/In
Militarized Customs: 180m, 36 TIE/In
Indictor: 262m ,3 LTL+3 heavy laser cannon, fast?
Aiwha: 150m, (1 MTL)
Crusader: 180m, 10 LTL, 2 heavy laser cannon
Intersector: 75m,
X-70b: 80m,

[fractalsponge1]

[Rhadamantus]

As I think is well known, there are three classes of Mandator that are known, none of which have designs worked out. Fractal has previously suggested that the Anon-4 Cruiser “Starburst” could be a Mandator type. Looking at the Legator, I note a distinct resemblance to Anon-4 (upscaled, but still)
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/de/cruiser4.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/wp/wp-content/ ... on4_58.jpg

With that in mind, I’d suggest Anon 4 as a Mandator-I, old republic type, maybe 300 or 400 BBy, 5.2 km, 2800g, a humpbacked cruiser with about 25 petatons worth of firepower.
The Legator, then, is the upscaled late republic type, starting to be made around 70 or 60 BBY, and at 7 Km long and 64 petatons a substantial upscaling.
Then, in the late clone wars and early imperial era, there is the Mandator-III, which, at 12 kilometers long and roughly 165 petatons, has to be thinner than the Legator or Bellator. Resembling, in many aspects, a bigger meaner Bellator.


The Legator versus Bellator, there are some differences but a clear resemblance. The Bellator moves the bridge back, ditches some armor for bigger internal reactors, abandons the fantail, it’s clearly built much more for fighting, early to mid imperial design seems to fit, same size as the Mandator-II but a lot better at fighting.

http://fractalsponge.net/wp/wp-content/ ... ator97.jpg
http://fractalsponge.net/wp/wp-content/ ... on4_41.jpg

Now, this leaves us with the issue of there being three types of Mandators that vary sixfold in size, but now with clear designs for two of them.

[CetaMan]

Thing is, the Mandator 1-3 should probably look as close as possible to each other, given being part of the same series. Obvious differences but a similar silhouette. That's why I always imaged the Vessel fractal used for the Legator as the Mandator, due to it being a battlecruiser/dreadnaught design in the time period.

[Rhadamantus]

Thing is, the Mandator 1-3 should probably look as close as possible to each other, given being part of the same series. Obvious differences but a similar silhouette. That's why I always imaged the Vessel fractal used for the Legator as the Mandator, due to it being a battlecruiser/dreadnaught design in the time period.

Anon 4 and the Legator bear a decent enough resemblance to make me suspect that they could be related.

[evillejedi]

Not sure how I feel about the 6 prominent portals being a facade, but otherwise amazing work.


I would have no issue with the Legator being a Mandator if that happened since anon4 is such a zoomed image)

based on what I can find, the Mandator I and Mandator II were very similar, Mandator I's were pre clonewar, limited by treaties and otherwise crippled to be home defense ships for Kuat and its key worlds/ contributors. The Mandator II was just a refit of hyperdrive, armor and weapons, probably the 'intended configuration' without treaty restrictions

Mandator III's were out of universe a paperwork accident, so in universe there is enough difference (size alone) to treat them as completely different ships with potential some but not all of the design features of the prior vessels.




regarding anon4 though, I think I showed the image before, but moving from anon4 to the bellator can be made a very clear lineage. (overlayed my take on anon4 with the bellator with almost no scaling changes and just adding additional hull structure and cladding)

[fractalsponge1]

The 6 portals as facade is from the models - both Avenger and the Executor detail section.

Mandator IIIs weren't an OOU accident, I pushed a little for a 12km concept and it got incorporated. So it's my fault I also deliberately made anon 4 as a separate lineage - specifically no bulb to distinguish them. Bellator and Anon 5 were also never intended by me to be Mandator or Mandator derivative. My retroactive rationalization of Bellator was a stripped down Mandator design (no inter-conversion possible) with some of the same core components/modules but a quite different (smaller) hull for more acceleration.

[fractalsponge1]

To add something - not that any of that is to detract from evillejedi's bellator/mandator concept, which I think is quite elegant, but I always considered Mandator to be something especially formidable, outgunned by Executor but still competitive. A full-lined 12km design does that. An 8km design of any reasonable dagger shape has no chance. So I am imposing my headcanon a bit here, but they're my ships after all

[CetaMan]

So do you view the Mandator as having the curved humpback of Anon Star Cruiser 4 or a more emphasized version of the Bellator/Alliegence hump. Funny how the Legator is Anon Battleship 4 while the generally used hunchback Mandator is Anon Cruiser 4. Causes some confusion during discussions...

[fractalsponge1]

So do you view the Mandator as having the curved humpback of Anon Star Cruiser 4 or a more emphasized version of the Bellator/Alliegence hump. Funny how the Legator is Anon Battleship 4 while the generally used hunchback Mandator is Anon Cruiser 4. Causes some confusion during discussions...

I haven't concepted out a Mandator in details, but I envision it as being a relatively fat and wide dagger - more arrowhead really, with a center spine like the Assertor flanked by some cityscape like Executor, but much tidier and more under armor. It would have an Legator-style bridge, and a distinct fantail aft rather than the Legator's kite plan, and of course an enormous reactor bulb. The profile would be humpbacked overall, but this would be built up from smaller bits of superstructure; I don't envision it having the overall curves or the solid whaleback top from evillejedi's version.

[Rhadamantus]

So do you view the Mandator as having the curved humpback of Anon Star Cruiser 4 or a more emphasized version of the Bellator/Alliegence hump. Funny how the Legator is Anon Battleship 4 while the generally used hunchback Mandator is Anon Cruiser 4. Causes some confusion during discussions...

I haven't concepted out a Mandator in details, but I envision it as being a relatively fat and wide dagger - more arrowhead really, with a center spine like the Assertor flanked by some cityscape like Executor, but much tidier and more under armor. It would have an Legator-style bridge, and a distinct fantail aft rather than the Legator's kite plan, and of course an enormous reactor bulb. The profile would be humpbacked overall, but this would be built up from smaller bits of superstructure; I don't envision it having the overall curves or the solid whaleback top from evillejedi's version.

At 12 km, it can't be that fat. It's something like 78x ISD power generation (from the 1000 recusants), probably closer to 50 times the size, and 7.5 times the length. It's not Executor skinny, but it's pretty close.