Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Locked
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

You know Who? He Who Must Not Be Named? :D

Although personally, I prefer using Putin for Voldemort jokes. Mostly because "Lord Vladimort" just roles off the tongue.

And because the giant orange baby is not capable enough to be a dark lord. He's just the herpes on America's dick, who's only real talent is conning people.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
aerius
Charismatic Cult Leader
Posts: 14799
Joined: 2002-08-18 07:27pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by aerius »

All that Russia crap is bullshit. If you want to nail Trump, you get him on this:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6526959618

That's his official twitter feed, it says, and I quote,
I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
Trump just admitted that he knew Flynn was lying his ass off to the FBI, he then attempted to get Comey to drop the investigation on Flynn's activities, and this is a documented fact. As in we have hard proof of all the above. That's a slam dunk for Obstruction of Justice, you know, one the charges they used to run Nixon out of office. If you want Trump gone, there's your ticket.

edit: ah crap, wrong thread, can a mod please move this over to the internal policy thread?
Image
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I believe that their was collusion with Russia, and a mounting body of evidence suggests that that is the case.

But you are right about one thing: we don't need there to be collusion with Russia to get rid of Trump. Their are any number of grounds to impeach him if we have a Congress willing to do its duty (a year from now, God willing), and to indict him.

I do expect Obstruction charges will be a big part of the final accounting, yes.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11937
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Crazedwraith »

So he's recognised jerusalem as capital of Israel which I beleive has generally not done before because of the peace process.
User avatar
Dragon Angel
Jedi Knight
Posts: 753
Joined: 2010-02-08 09:20am
Location: A Place Called...

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Dragon Angel »

If there is anything Trump is superb at, it's exacerbating global situations into further depths of clusterfuck no one has ever seen before...
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"
User avatar
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4322
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm
Location: Spacedock

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

Apparently what he did was put into effect an act signed twenty-odd years ago, as opposed to waiving it as previous presidents have done. It seems he didn't think to consider why that might be.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

I'm honestly wondering if his GOAL is global war. I'm pretty sure that's Steve Bannon's goal, at any rate.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by MKSheppard »

Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-12-06 01:48pm So he's recognised jerusalem as capital of Israel which I beleive has generally not done before because of the peace process.
The peace process has been a flusterclucked farce for the last 25 years. Perhaps with it dead, real progress can be made.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

MKSheppard wrote: 2017-12-06 05:50pm
Crazedwraith wrote: 2017-12-06 01:48pm So he's recognised jerusalem as capital of Israel which I beleive has generally not done before because of the peace process.
The peace process has been a flusterclucked farce for the last 25 years. Perhaps with it dead, real progress can be made.
Not sure what "progress" that will be, or what progress towards peace would be facilitated by even more war, unless you believe that peace can only be achieved with the complete destruction of one side or the other.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23347
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by LadyTevar »

I got into a screaming argument with my Mother over this.
And yes, she pulled the "God's City" and "God's People" theme on me, and all I could do was point out that God didn't put them back in Israel, racist men who didn't want them in their countries did.
Doors got slammed and I drove away fuming.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
aerius
Charismatic Cult Leader
Posts: 14799
Joined: 2002-08-18 07:27pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by aerius »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-12-06 05:55pm
MKSheppard wrote: 2017-12-06 05:50pm The peace process has been a flusterclucked farce for the last 25 years. Perhaps with it dead, real progress can be made.
Not sure what "progress" that will be, or what progress towards peace would be facilitated by even more war, unless you believe that peace can only be achieved with the complete destruction of one side or the other.
Y'all don't know who Shep is, do you?
Image
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Oh, I do.

Doesn't mean I'm not going to point out how absurd it is to think that anything but misery will come of Trump's actions here.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4322
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm
Location: Spacedock

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-12-07 06:06pm Oh, I do.

Doesn't mean I'm not going to point out how absurd it is to think that anything but misery will come of Trump's actions here.
Or anywhere for that matter.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

He really is like the Anthropomorphic Personification of a flesh-eating virus, corrupting everything he touches.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23347
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by LadyTevar »

An Anonymous White House Adviser says "Trump didn't realize what he was doing."

So. Not. Surprised. Sums up his Presidency in a nutshell.
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Lost Soal
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2615
Joined: 2002-10-22 06:25am
Location: Back in Newcastle.

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Lost Soal »

LadyTevar wrote: 2017-12-08 02:46pm An Anonymous White House Adviser says "Trump didn't realize what he was doing."

So. Not. Surprised. Sums up his Presidency in a nutshell.
I don't believe that for a second. He knew exactly what he was doing and what the reaction would be. He wants Muslims to be pissed so he can jump on their actions as proof that everything he says about them is true. He's called for internment camps of US Muslims before, won't be long before he does it again.
"May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places where you must walk." - Ancient Egyptian Blessing

Ivanova is always right.
I will listen to Ivanova.
I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God.
AND, if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out! - Babylon 5 Mantra

There is no "I" in TEAM. There is a ME however.
User avatar
EnterpriseSovereign
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4322
Joined: 2006-05-12 12:19pm
Location: Spacedock

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-12-07 07:16pm He really is like the Anthropomorphic Personification of a flesh-eating virus, corrupting everything he touches.
A bit like this guy.
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29842
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by MKSheppard »

Not to mention that moving the embassy to Jerusalem has been US law since 1995, and every president from then has made it a campaign promise (which is then quietly forgotten).
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
User avatar
Dragon Angel
Jedi Knight
Posts: 753
Joined: 2010-02-08 09:20am
Location: A Place Called...

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Dragon Angel »

The US could pass a law tomorrow saying "The United States of America, henceforth, recognizes that the entirety of the South American continent is now under its dominion as vassal subjects, with none of the rights and privileges conferred to them under United States citizenship", and it would still be just as horrible. Best left to be completely forgotten and ignored.

Legality does not equal morality.
"I could while away the hours, conferrin' with the flowers, consultin' with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratchin', while my thoughts were busy hatchin', if I only had a brain!
I would not be just a nothin', my head all full of stuffin', my heart all full of pain.
I would dance and be merry, life would be would be a ding-a-derry, if I only had a brain!"
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Dragon Angel wrote: 2017-12-10 02:52pm Legality does not equal morality.
That right there is arguably the single most important (and one of the most frequently forgotten) principles necessary for a free country.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by ray245 »

Lost Soal wrote: 2017-12-08 03:00pm
LadyTevar wrote: 2017-12-08 02:46pm An Anonymous White House Adviser says "Trump didn't realize what he was doing."

So. Not. Surprised. Sums up his Presidency in a nutshell.
I don't believe that for a second. He knew exactly what he was doing and what the reaction would be. He wants Muslims to be pissed so he can jump on their actions as proof that everything he says about them is true. He's called for internment camps of US Muslims before, won't be long before he does it again.
I think he simply could not understand why they are pissed. Think of him as a teenager, with a black/white understanding of the world. I think he legitimately doesn't understand why his actions can be seen as wrong. He sees all of his actions and thinking as the right approach, a "simple" way of seeing the world.

I think you are giving him too much credit for what he doesn't have. Generally speaking, I think people with a rather large ego are not that complicated to explain.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Yeah, simply saying that Trump is stupid and doesn't understand is giving him too much credit.

He's ignorant about a great many things, but he does have some PR and media savvy. He's not just a moron- he's a sociopath with designs on a dictatorship, and his actions are calculated to that end.

Though he is also a narcissist who is pathologically incapable of admitting fault.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
ray245
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7954
Joined: 2005-06-10 11:30pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by ray245 »

The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-12-10 05:53pm Yeah, simply saying that Trump is stupid and doesn't understand is giving him too much credit.

He's ignorant about a great many things, but he does have some PR and media savvy. He's not just a moron- he's a sociopath with designs on a dictatorship, and his actions are calculated to that end.

Though he is also a narcissist who is pathologically incapable of admitting fault.
That's if you believe he truly has an ability to craft such a calculated approach towards most, if not all of his policies. He's not an idiot, but not every of his policy needs to be a carefully calculated move towards undermining US democracy. What I am saying is that he lacks the empathy to understand others based on the worldview he has accepted. Plenty of smart people are capable of adopting such a mindset in regards to politics.
Humans are such funny creatures. We are selfish about selflessness, yet we can love something so much that we can hate something.
Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 30165
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by Simon_Jester »

Speaking as someone who's worked with a lot of teenagers, he's got the adolescent black/white worldview, and like quite a few adolescents has developed a powerful mix of cunning and resourcefulness when it comes to getting other people to give him what he wants.

This does not mean, necessarily, that he is capable of devising clever new strategies to exploit new situations with complex, second and third-order planning. Except in the areas where he is well-honed and experienced in. He has a form of intelligence that is very good at the handful of things it actually cares about (namely, ego-affirming ones), and not good at anything else (including long range planning)
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Trump Dump: Foreign Policy (Thread I)

Post by The Romulan Republic »

ray245 wrote: 2017-12-10 07:26pm
The Romulan Republic wrote: 2017-12-10 05:53pm Yeah, simply saying that Trump is stupid and doesn't understand is giving him too much credit.

He's ignorant about a great many things, but he does have some PR and media savvy. He's not just a moron- he's a sociopath with designs on a dictatorship, and his actions are calculated to that end.

Though he is also a narcissist who is pathologically incapable of admitting fault.
That's if you believe he truly has an ability to craft such a calculated approach towards most, if not all of his policies. He's not an idiot, but not every of his policy needs to be a carefully calculated move towards undermining US democracy. What I am saying is that he lacks the empathy to understand others based on the worldview he has accepted. Plenty of smart people are capable of adopting such a mindset in regards to politics.
Probably both are true.

No, not every single act he takes need be (or is) part of a master plan to undermine democracy- but I have yet to see convincing evidence that any major act by Donald Trump is driven by anything other than some form of selfishness. If you explained to him what altruism was, he'd probably say it was for losers.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
Locked