Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

[Crazedwraith]

Since it's premiered now and reviews are coming in and because I cordially detest trailer threads becoming the main discussion thread, here is a thread to discuss the new Star Wars film.

Enjoy.

[PhoenixKnig]

anything new on the ship/walker front?

[Darksider]

The Visual dictionary has extensive info on new ship and walker types. There are scans of it floating around but I won't post them here.

On the story front, if the rumors/spoilers i've heard turn out to be true, I'm not going to like this movie at all. Possibly to the extent that i'll be done with SW for good.

[The Romulan Republic]

Please don't screw up Luke and Rey, please don't screw up Luke and Rey, please don't screw up Luke and Rey...

[Dartzap]

I'm going to a midnight double bill on Wednesday. First time I've had the opportunity to so, should be fun!

[Darksider]

Ok, my excitement for this film has officially turned to dread. If the most widely reported spoilers are true, I can't see a way to salvage the Sequel Trilogy as part of the greater Star Wars saga.

[The Romulan Republic]

Ok, my excitement for this film has officially turned to dread. If the most widely reported spoilers are true, I can't see a way to salvage the Sequel Trilogy as part of the greater Star Wars saga.

May I ask why? I've heard some disquieting rumors about how this film will approach the Force and Luke/Rey's characterizations, but nothing of note in the last few days. And I'm inclined to take such criticisms with a barrel of salt, given that denouncing the latest Star Wars film for ruining the franchise is practically a tradition with Star Wars fandom at this point.

[Iroscato]

Going on Friday, which means my media blackout will be mercifully brief. Can't fuckin' wait.

[Darksider]

May I ask why? I've heard some disquieting rumors about how this film will approach the Force and Luke/Rey's characterizations, but nothing of note in the last few days. And I'm inclined to take such criticisms with a barrel of salt, given that denouncing the latest Star Wars film for ruining the franchise is practically a tradition with Star Wars fandom at this point.

Essentially, they confirm the fear i've had since TFA that Disney is using this Trilogy to build up their characters by shitting heavily on the OT and the characters I grew up with. If you want specifics, I'll send them in a PM.

[atg]

Saw the midnight screening.

Ugh.

Horrible movie. I personally rate TPM better. Title says spoilers but I wont go into details unless someone wants them just in case.

[The Romulan Republic]

May I ask why? I've heard some disquieting rumors about how this film will approach the Force and Luke/Rey's characterizations, but nothing of note in the last few days. And I'm inclined to take such criticisms with a barrel of salt, given that denouncing the latest Star Wars film for ruining the franchise is practically a tradition with Star Wars fandom at this point.

Essentially, they confirm the fear i've had since TFA that Disney is using this Trilogy to build up their characters by shitting heavily on the OT and the characters I grew up with. If you want specifics, I'll send them in a PM.

No need. I'd like to stay at least partially spoiler-free.

I... am worried about how they'll handle Luke, but I'm taking criticisms like this with a truck-load of salt because...

Well, I'm not sure what exactly your specific criticisms are, but to my mind, a new film series should focus on building up its own characters. Ideally not at the expense of older characters, but I have a feeling that what a lot of people want from these series is a love letter to the OT. Whereas what I want is something new (with ties to the old) that can stand on its own.

Also, in a case like this, the old heroes kind of have to have "failed" for their to be galaxy-spanning crises for the new heroes to deal with. It sucks, but I don't really have a problem with it- nobodies' triumphs last forever. History goes on. Luke and co. had their moment in the Sun. And then history went on. As long as the characterization feels true, I'm okay with that.

Plus it helps that I legitimately like the new characters.

So I'll reserve judgement.

[Darksider]

Plus it helps that I legitimately like the new characters.

See that's where we differ. I'm really not that invested in the new characters outside of Finn, and some of the spoilers make it sound like he and Poe get shoved aside to focus on the far less interesting Rey.

Also, there's one specific spoiler which, if true, is massively OOC for Luke. Again, PM me if you want details.

[The Romulan Republic]

Eh, if your appreciation of this movie is heavily dependent on liking Rey, then I dare say I'll enjoy it. Especially, perhaps, if it focusses more on developing her character. Rey is likeable, decently acted, and not a bad concept for a character at base. I can even put up with her exceptional level of skill at most things (which I think is exaggerated somewhat in any case). The only big drawback for me is that she's underdeveloped- she doesn't have a lot of layers yet.

So yeah, if you don't care for Rey, I get why that would bother you. But its not really a con for me.

[Ace Pace]

I just saw it and loved it. Teased about staying in the mold but really played with all the standard SW assumptions.

Leia surviving surprised me. A lot.
The rest was just well done.

[The Romulan Republic]

snip

I know this is marked as a spoiler thread, but that's a mighty big one. I'd have put that in spoilers or mini-text if I were you.

[Ace Pace]

Uh no, it's a spoiler thread. That's why we made a new thread.

[Dartzap]

It's a spoiler thread, ye daft muppet.

It'll be a marmite one I think.
Spoiler

People will hate the minimalism of ship crew/fights etc
Yoda appears, smote a tree, winds up Luke in grand style
Resistance is spanked massively
Poe is an egotistical maniac
Hux is comedy gold, Porgs are tasty
Kylo/Rey have some weried manifest destiny twinning going on, which borks Lukes old blade
Luke has learned astral projection from the afore mentioned Green Thunder Midget
Snoke gets sheesh-kebabed due to twirling his moustache whilst monologing.
Luke snuffs it, but is at one with the Force
First Order has a Death Star Battering Ram

Leia somehow survives

I enjoyed it, was fun.

[Darksider]

Eh, if your appreciation of this movie is heavily dependent on liking Rey, then I dare say I'll enjoy it.

So yeah, if you don't care for Rey, I get why that would bother you. But its not really a con for me.

I'd probably like her more if they weren't taking all the meaning out of the OT so they can give it to her, but I just can't separate her arc from what they're doing to the Skywalker Saga to make her story happen, especially because
Spoiler

The movie apparently confirms she's a nobody. If she was Luke's daughter like some thought after TFA, she'd still be a legitimate part of the Skywalker saga. As it stands, Kylo Ren is essentially the last living Skywalker at the end of the film. Yes, Leia survives, but we all know she's getting ganked between films since Carrie Fisher's gone.

[Kojiro]

The word I'd use to describe the film is 'contrived'. It's not bad, but it's not good. There's too much 'oh that's convenient' for my liking.

Oh and from a technological standpoint, this was fucking terrible from the start.
Spoiler

They repeated the sin from TFA of allowing hyperspace to bypass shields. There absolutely no reason whatsoever not to build hyperspace capable missiles and utterly fucking wreck capital ships.

[GuppyShark]

Thanks for stealing my review, Kojiro.

I don't know what they're going to do for the next one, now that they've retold ANH in TFA and ESB/RotJ in this one. When they opened with the rebel evacuation I thought 'at least they spared us the Hoth infantry stand against AT-ATs...' Nope.

I'll focus on what I liked, because I'm usually pretty negative in these threads: I liked the way Rey and Ren play off each other, I liked that Poe got demoted for leading the bomber fleet suicide run. I loved Hamill, he did a lot with the material he was given.

[Kojiro]

You're welcome Guppy.

Yeah I noticed that too- it wasn't as direct but we still had a lot of 'I've seen this before' moments. I feel like that random rebel trooper pointed out it was salt just to make sure know our wasn't snow.

[Ace Pace]

Been talking about it with the SDN Israel people.
I think one of the best things in this movie was taking something from ESB, the "Control yourself, don't trust your instincts" and played on it in a far better way than ESB.

Because, in ESB, Luke trusting his instincts was right. He lost his hand but he discovered things about himself, saved his friends and setup ROTJ.

Here, Poe trusting his instincts nearly lead to the Resistance being slaughtered. Rey trusting her instincts nearly made her go dark. Kylo following his feelings led to the resistance getting away. And most of all, we had Luke admitting that giving in to his instincts lead to this entire trilogy.

That's something very clear, that the measured and thoughtful characters succeeded while impulsive people failed.

Now a random series of notes. Rose was fucking atrocious, I hope she improves. Phasma got a good quick end. Poe, Poe was great. Poe did what he believed was right and learned from it. Maybe too quickly, but that's the movie life.

[Ace Pace]

And edit window passed (for good reason).

Another interesting note in this movie. Without any pomp, without any drama, this is an entirely female lead film from the good guys point of view.

Until the very end with Poe, not a single male good character made any good decisions or lead anything except a disaster. They were maybe cool, maybe action worthy, but they weren't making decisions.

[PREDATOR490]

This film disgusted me on nearly every level from start to finish.

- The super dread ship that gets stripped of all 8 of its fighter defences by a single X-Wing.

- The absurdly stupid bombers that have to "drop" bombs onto the target in space. B-29s in space... what the...

- The "escort" Star Destroyers that literally do nothing and the entire fighter complement is barely a dozen throughout the entire film.

- Single Fighters can apparently wreck capital ships with minimal effort.

- The Rebels can apparently outrun the ENTIRE First Order Fleet chasing them and in the entire length of the film the First Order does not call for support from a ship that would be fast enough to catch them despite having up to 18 hours+

- Meanwhile the Ray Falcon and Fin Brigade. essentially drops out of hyperspace on top of the First Order fleet hours after they left.
A) The First Order could have completely cut the Rebels off by having one or more ships jump to hyperspace then jump back onto or in front of the Rebels
B) Apparently, it is possible to jump on top of a moving target from across the galaxy with some amazing precision without any logical reason for them being able to know where the target is.

- Where did the ultra-specific information come from about the First Order being able to track the Rebels through hyperspace AND that all the First Order ships could do it but only ONE of them would do it at a time AND exactly where it was located AND how to disable it ?
That was a gigantic load of bullshit.

- The Hoth rip off that just happened to be exactly where the Rebels jumped to while not knowing the First Order was able to track them AND they jumped to it so far away that it would take hours to burn there with the First Order chasing them at sublight. This makes no sense at all.

- The entire First Order Fleet cannot effectively engage the rebels at range but then magically are able to start shooting down the evacuating transports

-----

Overall, the entire technology / space stuff was a complete mess that had no sense at all.

Story: Are you fucking kidding me ?

The situation with the Force and Luke was simply a chain wreck of vague Bi-Polar trying to be mystical / smart bullshit. Going from "get rid of the Jedi and Sith" as a premise - Which intellectually the film seems to be pushing then does a complete return to status quo with Ren being the Sith and Ray being the Jedi.

Snooke - What a colossal waste of time. They guy is hurling Ren and Ray around even though they are supposed to be fantastically powerful without any justification of where and how he has achieved this capability. Somehow he can reach across space and connect Ray and Ren through telepathy... because fuck knows why. Luke barely mentions how Snooke at all and it is never indicated how Ren was corrupted by Snooke.

That said, the Knights of Ren - According to Luke some of the trainees went with Ren with Snooke so... essentially the Knights of Ren are LITERALLY the "Knights that left with Ren" to join Snooke... because fuck knows why ?

The Knights of Ren throwing around new Lightsaber gimick weapons is yet more eye-rolling bullshit.

The battle of Hoth 2.0 - Yeah, get the fuck outta here with that rehash bullshit. Oh it must be completely different because the terrain is somehow a desert / salt thing.

Mini-Death Star Siege Cannon.That was a gigantic waste of screen time and name pulling hype. Could have simply called it a Siege Cannon but invoking the Death Star name then making it perform like shit is just disgusting.

This entire film is a clear example of - Lets rip off the iconic scenes from previous films and jumble them around with some insanely stupid bolt ons like larger AT-ATS or a Super Star Destroyer, or mini Death Star cannons. These scenes barely have any cohesive sense with the rest of the Star Wars Saga and the extra additions just end up turning everything to shit with the barest amount of logical thinking.

[streetad]

It's wierd. It's like they were so desperate to put the characters in a similar situation to ESB so they could hit/'subvert' all their story beats (plus some RoTJ thrown in) that they decided to completely ignore any continuity from the previous film.

In the very first line of the opening crawl we are told the Republic is just sort of.. gone now, so we can get back to evil monolithic superpower Empire hunting down plucky ragtag Rebels again. We are even referring to them as Rebels again now.

Wasn't there a large, albeit largely demilitarised New Republic and a tiny rump pariah state Empire that only Leia and her shady paramilitary antifa friends took seriously? Why bother setting that up if you just wanted to sweep it all away offscreen?

We have to have a big family rug-pull reveal moment, of course. But wouldnt it be clever if it turned out Rey's parents were literally just some randoms and her backstory was just entirely as presented? But then how do you explain all her implausible skills as demonstrated in the previous film? Surely they were planning to go somewhere with that?

Sure, let's do a bit like the Emperor's throne room from RoTJ. Wouldnt it be an awesome twist if Vader had actually killed the Emperor and taken his throne like he was planning? But we know fuck all about Snoke and what his deal is. He's just some puppet guy with evil force powers out of nowhere. Werent they ever planning to reveal his backstory and how he got involved with all these First Order types? Oh well, doesnt matter, he's dead now, I guess.