Maximum range of turbolasers (Last Jedi spoilers)

[FaxModem1]

In The Last Jedi, the Resistance makes a fighting retreat from the First Order, with the ships in visual range of each other. The distance between the First Order ships affects the turbolasers' damage done to the Resistance ships' shields. What does this tell us about both Star Wars shields and turbolasers in normal space combat? What does this change, if anything, in regards to combating Trek ships?

Discuss.

[Khaat]

Haven't seen it yet. Is it possible that with the bad guys only behind them, the Resistance ships are able to "double rear" their deflector shields?

[FaxModem1]

Haven't seen it yet. Is it possible that with the bad guys only behind them, the Resistance ships are able to "double rear" their deflector shields?

They do that, eventually, for story spoiler reasons. For most of the film, it doesn't matter as they are just out of effective turbolaser range, meaning that normal SW shields can hold up if just a bit farther away.

[KraytKing]

A related question: in a movie stupid enough to give a massless bolt of energy in zero gravity an arc, can we really trust the range shown?

Not to say we should ignore it, mind you. Just that if it contradicts the OT, go with the OT.

[The Romulan Republic]

I haven't seen the film yet, and I apologize for not knowing the answer to this question off the top of my head (been a long time since I did much Star Wars tech. debating), but do we know that turbolaser bolts are massless, or pure energy? They're obviously not lasers, name not withstanding, as has been gone over a billion times or so.

[CetaMan]

Its a significantly shorter range then what we have seen combat on-screen before. Probably just trying to make sure the audience can see all the ships for visual effects...

[KraytKing]

I haven't seen the film yet, and I apologize for not knowing the answer to this question off the top of my head (been a long time since I did much Star Wars tech. debating), but do we know that turbolaser bolts are massless, or pure energy? They're obviously not lasers, name not withstanding, as has been gone over a billion times or so.

You're right. Mostly tibanna. My mistake.


Regardless, it's deep space. Mass or not, there's no arc.

[Sea Skimmer]

I haven't seen the film yet, and I apologize for not knowing the answer to this question off the top of my head (been a long time since I did much Star Wars tech. debating), but do we know that turbolaser bolts are massless, or pure energy? They're obviously not lasers, name not withstanding, as has been gone over a billion times or so.

They have recoil, so mass is likely but not certain. Because Lasers do have recoil, it's very slight compared to a conventional gun of similar raw energy output but it exists. That's why a laser driven solar sail can work. The laser recoil is the opposite force to the laser driving energy the sail absorbs.

[KraytKing]

Another little tidbit from the movie: at one point, we see Rey fire her pistol into a brick wall visibly multiple layers thick, leaving a hole at least a foot in diameter. More interestingly, much of the debris is shattered, but not vaporized. What does this mean for the debate?

[Captain Seafort]

Another little tidbit from the movie: at one point, we see Rey fire her pistol into a brick wall visibly multiple layers thick, leaving a hole at least a foot in diameter. More interestingly, much of the debris is shattered, but not vaporized. What does this mean for the debate?

Probably not much - she hit one brick, it vaporised, the pressure wave blew a hole through the wall. We don't know how much of the bolt kept going after passing through the hole, or what sort of weapon she she had (beyond "a pistol", which could be anything from a snub .22-equivalent to a Webley Mk VI-equivalent).

[Imperial528]

Having just seen the movie, here are my thoughts:
Spoiler

The Supremacy bombards the resistance cruiser throughout much of the film. Given that it is perfectly able to hit the shields, and able to single-shot the resistance transports further away than the cruiser, I expect it is not a strict range limitation of the guns at play. Rather, if turbolasers experience a decrease in energy density over distance (in much the way a laser beam or particle beam diffracts or diverges, respectively) then at that range their guns may not be able to bring down the cruiser's shielding. This helps explain why the cruiser doesn't throw more power into the engines to run away as it did when it first opened up the distance: that would take too much power from the shields and risks giving the Supremacy the chance to overwhelm their shields.

I would conjecture that, supposing turbolasers are self contained plasma bursts, that over time the magnetic effect binding the bolt together fades in strength and the plasma starts spreading out.

[Elheru Aran]

Another little tidbit from the movie: at one point, we see Rey fire her pistol into a brick wall visibly multiple layers thick, leaving a hole at least a foot in diameter. More interestingly, much of the debris is shattered, but not vaporized. What does this mean for the debate?

Probably not much - she hit one brick, it vaporised, the pressure wave blew a hole through the wall. We don't know how much of the bolt kept going after passing through the hole, or what sort of weapon she she had (beyond "a pistol", which could be anything from a snub .22-equivalent to a Webley Mk VI-equivalent).

It was stone, not brick. And the bolt had enough force afterwards to leave a smoking impact on a stone well past the building, say 30ft perhaps.

[CetaMan]

Better question, who actually cares about versus stuff anymore...

But to actually go on the topic, are we sure supremacy is firing turbos? they seem pretty similar to the autocannons fired by the dreadnaught. Perhaps its large mass drivers? Weird and with little support, but its yet another possibility for the worst space battles in SW movie history...

[The Romulan Republic]

In The Last Jedi, the Resistance makes a fighting retreat from the First Order, with the ships in visual range of each other. The distance between the First Order ships affects the turbolasers' damage done to the Resistance ships' shields. What does this tell us about both Star Wars shields and turbolasers in normal space combat? What does this change, if anything, in regards to combating Trek ships?

Discuss.

Whatever the SSD Compensator* was lobbing at the Rebel fleet, it wasn't standard tubolaser bolts, since they had a strange arcing trajectory, began to arc as soon as they left Snoke's ship (from what I can recall), and thus behaved in a manner unlike any turbolaser bolts seen before, ever.

Though, the fact that the other ships weren't firing turbolasers at the fleet is still suggestive about turbolasers' maximum effective range.


*I don't know its canon name, but that's my fan name for Snoke's ship.

[Imperial528]

The name of Snoke's ship is Supremacy, it's a *cringe* Mega-class star dreadnought.

[The Romulan Republic]

Truth be told, I like Compensator class better.

[Batman]

I could've lived with that thing never getting a name. It did essentially nothing and was destroyed in the movie it was introduced in. Executor at least got to crash into DS2.

[The Romulan Republic]

I actually don't mind it as a starship design, even if it is a bit overblown.

And honestly, Executor's death was pathetic. Though not more pathetic than that dreadnought losing all its dorsal point-defense guns to a single fighter in TLJ.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

One of several pathetic things in TLJ, from all but one of the bombers dying before they could release their payloads, to the drama of the last one barely opening its bomb bay doors, to the first order not having enough of a clue to job some missiles at the retreating rebel ships.

[The Romulan Republic]

One of several pathetic things in TLJ, from all but one of the bombers dying before they could release their payloads,

That seems a very realistic outcome of an assault on a dreadnought by a horribly outnumbered and outgunned force. Which was kind of the point of the scene. Poe was being stupid, not the film.

to the drama of the last one barely opening its bomb bay doors,

Damaged ships malfunction.

to the first order not having enough of a clue to job some missiles at the retreating rebel ships.

Missiles are almost never used in Star Wars films, save at close range by fighters. Strange, maybe, but hardly something that can be held against TLJ specifically.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Having just seen the movie, here are my thoughts:
Spoiler

The Supremacy bombards the resistance cruiser throughout much of the film. Given that it is perfectly able to hit the shields, and able to single-shot the resistance transports further away than the cruiser, I expect it is not a strict range limitation of the guns at play. Rather, if turbolasers experience a decrease in energy density over distance (in much the way a laser beam or particle beam diffracts or diverges, respectively) then at that range their guns may not be able to bring down the cruiser's shielding. This helps explain why the cruiser doesn't throw more power into the engines to run away as it did when it first opened up the distance: that would take too much power from the shields and risks giving the Supremacy the chance to overwhelm their shields.

I would conjecture that, supposing turbolasers are self contained plasma bursts, that over time the magnetic effect binding the bolt together fades in strength and the plasma starts spreading out.

Here's my take on it.
Spoiler

We've known for a while that Star Wars shields have a deflector component. There is some lateral deflection that becomes larger with range, and then a component that actually absorbs any impacts. So it need not be a limitation on range or energy density, but the range at which the deflector component of shields becomes unable to sufficiently deflect a shot to cause a miss.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

One of several pathetic things in TLJ, from all but one of the bombers dying before they could release their payloads,

That seems a very realistic outcome of an assault on a dreadnought by a horribly outnumbered and outgunned force. Which was kind of the point of the scene. Poe was being stupid, not the film.

to the drama of the last one barely opening its bomb bay doors,

Damaged ships malfunction.

to the first order not having enough of a clue to job some missiles at the retreating rebel ships.

Missiles are almost never used in Star Wars films, save at close range by fighters. Strange, maybe, but hardly something that can be held against TLJ specifically.

It boiled down to Paige struggling to reach a bloody button, that's the problem. And then there's BB-8's efforts to fix Poe's starfighter's weapons, using its dome as a makeshift plug.

The film did get one thing right though- because the First Order can track the rebel ships through hyperspace they had no need to bring along an Interdictor.

Is TLJ the first film to mention starship fuel though? I'm struggling to recall any instances of it.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think its the first mention in a film, yeah, unless you count Starkiller Base draining a Star for fuel in TFA. Though the EU mentioned starship fuel, of course, and one presumes they do have it, and can eventually run out of it.

[Crazedwraith]

We'd also seen Starfighters tanking up with something in ANH but first time for Cap ships.

I can only assume the Resistance ships were short stocked to start with since the FO ships seeming had no constraints on them.

[The Romulan Republic]

They evacuated in a hurry. Maybe they left their fuel reserves on the ground?