Star Wars: The Last Jedi release thread (spoilers)

[eMeM]

Leia had something resembling an uniform in TFA, but for The Great Evacuation Cocktail Party she changed to a formal dress.

I wonder what was the Rebel plan had they not been tracked - was the first jump just to get away and prepare to jump to the real destination, in which case it was sequel-trilogy level convinient that the random jump brought them 20 hours from a former Rebel outpost, or was Crait their final destination, and they are so awfull at astronavigation that they left hyperspace so far away from the target that they needed 20 hours at full combat speed to reach it, in a universe in which you can cross the entire Galaxy in five hours, and with two out of three ships not even having 20h worth of fuel?

[eMeM]

Johnson just doesn't care, "sure ghosts can summon lighning, why not, it's interesting, and while we're at it, darksider ghosts would be fun", but I lost all my respect to Pablo Hidalgo.

And the projection thing, is it physical or not, here he implies it's not but Kylo gets wet, Kylo and Rey touch, Luke hugs Leia, and gives her projected dice. For the time being I will just assume it't a standard sequel procedure of "we wanted those scenes so we did them, thinking is for nerds".

[Ace Pace]

Also, there were seven months between Carrie Fisher's death to the time when they finished filming for TLJ (Dec. 2016 vs July 2016).

Why this is important to me is that they could have easily enough killed off Leia (having her take Holdo's place in hypering into the Supremacy), and allowed Holdo (a new character) to step up and lead the Resistance. If I ever wondered just how much Rian Johnson hates JJ Abrams, this is what proved it to me. This is the ultimate fuck you to any director that followed up after him for the main trilogy. "Haha, fuck you - go have fun playing in this uncanny valley."

Are you fucking nuts? If Carrie is dead and you want to integrate that into the script, you need to change the script (hard), plan new shoots (hard), produce them (expensive), edit it back together into something cohesive. This is after you have a good and solid script that you're going to theaters with.

Your entire approach is so far off the reality road that makes your criticism of film making look ludicrous. Criticise the film itself, but the meta is clearly something you're not fully understanding.

[Imperial528]

With the Rey and Kylo link, it may be a case of psychological responses on the part of those involved being shown visually. We see Kylo get wet to represent that he actually felt the rain through the projection, just as he felt the blaster bolt during the first connection.

[Knife]

Also, there were seven months between Carrie Fisher's death to the time when they finished filming for TLJ (Dec. 2016 vs July 2016).

Why this is important to me is that they could have easily enough killed off Leia (having her take Holdo's place in hypering into the Supremacy), and allowed Holdo (a new character) to step up and lead the Resistance. If I ever wondered just how much Rian Johnson hates JJ Abrams, this is what proved it to me. This is the ultimate fuck you to any director that followed up after him for the main trilogy. "Haha, fuck you - go have fun playing in this uncanny valley."

Are you fucking nuts? If Carrie is dead and you want to integrate that into the script, you need to change the script (hard), plan new shoots (hard), produce them (expensive), edit it back together into something cohesive. This is after you have a good and solid script that you're going to theaters with.

Your entire approach is so far off the reality road that makes your criticism of film making look ludicrous. Criticise the film itself, but the meta is clearly something you're not fully understanding.

Not really. Cut one scene that exists short and she is dead. Can even keep the scene of her in the med-bed thingie but say it's her corpse and you've got enough to kill her off with some respect. Died like her husband, at the hands of her son. Could even go back and reshoot that scene with Ren and have him reflexively pull the trigger after his wingman does.

[FaxModem1]

I agree with you on most counts, but what the fuck are you doing judging Holdo by her attire? I don't even remember what she wore, I was too busy trying to figure out if Poe was right or not.

Because film is a visual medium. Holdo is a new character introduced in this film, and the Resistance is supposed to be a quasi-military volunteer militia based on the strength of its leaders. Consider how Darth Vader enters into the Tantive IV at the beginning of A New Hope, and how menacing and scary he looks. Or how Han Solo is introduced, with a swagger and dressed more like a bit of a cowboy in a menacing bar. Leia was introduced in A New Hope wearing a princess outfit, and for most of the film, was in distress, but was meant to subvert expectations as she takes a blaster and shoots just as well as everyone else. Look also at Leia's introduction in this new trilogy, a woman in a uniform and clearly in command of the situation.

Holdo, the brave new leader for the Resistance, is wearing a cocktail dress, and her brave plan to save the Resistance is.....RUN AWAY. In the previous Resistance scene, Leia(while herself wearing a fancy dress, admittedly), confers with her officers, improving her plan based on their inputs. Holdo's plan is, "Shut up, I'm in charge. Do what I say even though this will get 2 out of our 3 ships killed even if everything goes right." Instead, her plan, which doesn't make sense in-story, and leads to the Resistance almost getting wiped out if not for a Hail-Mary done by Luke, gets all but whoever got on the Falcon killed.

Remember, they could have hyperdrived to any destination they wanted(they had enough fuel for at least one jump) and set up an ambush there for the First Order while waiting for reinforcements, and not experienced a long lingering death by a thousand cuts that they experienced slowly running away.

This, combined with her cocktail dress, makes her come off as an out of touch officer who doesn't care about her people's lives. It's why I was rather surprised she sacrificed herself at the end, as I expected her to be a dirty coward and run away. It made more sense with the character that was established, then what they were going for.

[Ace Pace]

Also, there were seven months between Carrie Fisher's death to the time when they finished filming for TLJ (Dec. 2016 vs July 2016).

Why this is important to me is that they could have easily enough killed off Leia (having her take Holdo's place in hypering into the Supremacy), and allowed Holdo (a new character) to step up and lead the Resistance. If I ever wondered just how much Rian Johnson hates JJ Abrams, this is what proved it to me. This is the ultimate fuck you to any director that followed up after him for the main trilogy. "Haha, fuck you - go have fun playing in this uncanny valley."

Are you fucking nuts? If Carrie is dead and you want to integrate that into the script, you need to change the script (hard), plan new shoots (hard), produce them (expensive), edit it back together into something cohesive. This is after you have a good and solid script that you're going to theaters with.

Your entire approach is so far off the reality road that makes your criticism of film making look ludicrous. Criticise the film itself, but the meta is clearly something you're not fully understanding.

Not really. Cut one scene that exists short and she is dead. Can even keep the scene of her in the med-bed thingie but say it's her corpse and you've got enough to kill her off with some respect. Died like her husband, at the hands of her son. Could even go back and reshoot that scene with Ren and have him reflexively pull the trigger after his wingman does.

And rewrite the second half of the movie? Reshoot it? ReFX?

Who'll lead Poe on his arc? Who will make sure the Resistance functions? Will Holdo stick around and insert a generic character instead?

Of course it's solvable, it just means that like TFA the post production will be rushed and they'll be editing till the last day, with all that entails.

[Xisiqomelir]

Finally watched so I can comment.

Liked:
-Luke going full Zen and de-linking the Force from the Jedi
-Yoda going BEYOND ZEN and burning the Jedi Koran
-Luke becoming more powerful than we can possibly imagine
-BB-9E
-Chewbacca
-Kylo putting some effort in
-Kylo HATING the Falcon because it reminds him of Han
-Kylo v Hux hate-fueled eyefucking
-1st viewing of the hambonetaru-chan owls in the Falcon cockpit
-Benicio

Didn't:
-Autistic Koreanese girl
-Blue-haired old SJW chick womansplaining strategy to a war ace
-FN-2187 explaining that Kylo HATES the Falcon because it reminds him of Han
-3rd viewing of the hambonetaru-chan owls in the Falcon cockpit
-Snoke rapid erasing
-Ackbar off-screening
-Space bombers DROPPING bombs in zero-G

Overall: Enjoyed

[LadyTevar]

There was no need for a separate thread. Thread Merged with the main LAST JEDI thread.

[Vendetta]

This, combined with her cocktail dress, makes her come off as an out of touch officer who doesn't care about her people's lives. It's why I was rather surprised she sacrificed herself at the end, as I expected her to be a dirty coward and run away. It made more sense with the character that was established, then what they were going for.

They were tricking you into believing Poe was "right".

Everything that happens on the cruiser is shown from Poe's perspective, you see things framed as he sees them and learns them when he learns them.

So you see Holdo the way he sees her, he thinks she is an out of touch coward who just wants to run away. Whereas actually she's a canny resistance leader who realises that resistance forces succeed when they manage to preserve their assets and people not when they manage to win decisive battles, because the enemy will always have more assets than them and can replace them trivially.

And Poe is a glory hound dipshit with no sense of opsec (immediately blabs the plan to Finn, despite knowing that Finn is going into enemy territory and might be captured by people who can actually read minds, does so on an unsecured line). Holdo's biggest failing as a commander was not throwing him in the brig where he belonged after he got 90% of his command killed and the Resistance's only heavy attack assets destroyed by disobeying orders. (Seriously, Poe's fuckups get about 95% of the surviving Resistance personnel killed in this movie, with ace pilots like him they barely need a First Order.)

[SAAA]

I happened to realize a little thing that may explain why hyperspace ramming isn't a thing: Finn and co had to get on the Supremacy and drop a small section of the shields, ok, then is it ever implied they were really turned on after and it wasn't just a trick on the operator display?

I ask because it looks like the Raddus hit exactly that sector were they snuck in, might be a coincidence but who knows, maybe Holdo scanned the ship and found that vulnerability from outside (and obviously other FO guys on surrounding destroyers weren't really looking at the admiral ship to tell them they had shield lowered somewhere) and aimed there. Could have been a nice little addition if they showed something like that on screen rather than having people imagine an explanation, who knows maybe it's in the deleted scenes... like the dreadnought not having shields at all apparently :/

This might explain why hyperspace ram was possible only in this particular occasion, planetary shield might be an exception as they have to cover a whole planet and need that "fractional" refresh. So ramming a Death Star isn't ok because it has ship-like shields and those stop suicide attackers, Starkiller was really too big for that tactic to work (would you ram a planet, and how much damage would you do anyway?) and you'd need the knowledge and weapons ready beforehand.

I'm reaching I know but it's the best way I can explain what happened on screen, even if it's soft sci-fi and Star Wars, without throwing logic totally out the window.

[FaxModem1]

This, combined with her cocktail dress, makes her come off as an out of touch officer who doesn't care about her people's lives. It's why I was rather surprised she sacrificed herself at the end, as I expected her to be a dirty coward and run away. It made more sense with the character that was established, then what they were going for.

They were tricking you into believing Poe was "right".

Everything that happens on the cruiser is shown from Poe's perspective, you see things framed as he sees them and learns them when he learns them.

So you see Holdo the way he sees her, he thinks she is an out of touch coward who just wants to run away. Whereas actually she's a canny resistance leader who realises that resistance forces succeed when they manage to preserve their assets and people not when they manage to win decisive battles, because the enemy will always have more assets than them and can replace them trivially.

And Poe is a glory hound dipshit with no sense of opsec (immediately blabs the plan to Finn, despite knowing that Finn is going into enemy territory and might be captured by people who can actually read minds, does so on an unsecured line). Holdo's biggest failing as a commander was not throwing him in the brig where he belonged after he got 90% of his command killed and the Resistance's only heavy attack assets destroyed by disobeying orders. (Seriously, Poe's fuckups get about 95% of the surviving Resistance personnel killed in this movie, with ace pilots like him they barely need a First Order.)

If that was the case, she should have immediately hyperdrived to somewhere where she wouldn't have lost two ships over a two day journey instead of losing the crews on-board and then the crew of the flagship because they were all in defenseless transports. Her plan was to hide until reinforcements arrived, yes? Doing so immediately, and making the battlefield more advantageous to her side, rather than having her do so after the First Order pick off her ships would have been the smarter move.

Again, flighty woman in a cocktail dress who tells everyone to obey and doesn't realize how much she is sacrificing along the way until the last minute, and then redeems herself by taking out the enemy fleet in a kamikaze attack.

[Vendetta]

This, combined with her cocktail dress, makes her come off as an out of touch officer who doesn't care about her people's lives. It's why I was rather surprised she sacrificed herself at the end, as I expected her to be a dirty coward and run away. It made more sense with the character that was established, then what they were going for.

They were tricking you into believing Poe was "right".

Everything that happens on the cruiser is shown from Poe's perspective, you see things framed as he sees them and learns them when he learns them.

So you see Holdo the way he sees her, he thinks she is an out of touch coward who just wants to run away. Whereas actually she's a canny resistance leader who realises that resistance forces succeed when they manage to preserve their assets and people not when they manage to win decisive battles, because the enemy will always have more assets than them and can replace them trivially.

And Poe is a glory hound dipshit with no sense of opsec (immediately blabs the plan to Finn, despite knowing that Finn is going into enemy territory and might be captured by people who can actually read minds, does so on an unsecured line). Holdo's biggest failing as a commander was not throwing him in the brig where he belonged after he got 90% of his command killed and the Resistance's only heavy attack assets destroyed by disobeying orders. (Seriously, Poe's fuckups get about 95% of the surviving Resistance personnel killed in this movie, with ace pilots like him they barely need a First Order.)

If that was the case, she should have immediately hyperdrived to somewhere where she wouldn't have lost two ships over a two day journey instead of losing the crews on-board and then the crew of the flagship because they were all in defenseless transports. Her plan was to hide until reinforcements arrived, yes? Doing so immediately, and making the battlefield more advantageous to her side, rather than having her do so after the First Order pick off her ships would have been the smarter move.

Again, flighty woman in a cocktail dress who tells everyone to obey and doesn't realize how much she is sacrificing along the way until the last minute, and then redeems herself by taking out the enemy fleet in a kamikaze attack.

She did immedately hyperdirve to somewhere else. The First Order followed them. (Did you miss Finn and Rose's whole sideplot, it's quite long?) They only had enough fuel for one other jump and they knew they could be followed. (Even without figuring out it was a new hyperspace tracking system they could figure out they were being followed somehow)

There was no point hyperspacing again just to have even less fuel to sustain a chase, especially since she knew they had a hideout in range and no guarantee that would be the case anywhere else.

Hence the plan with the transports, they had a radar stealth system so they could use them to leave the cruiser, hide on the planet whilst the cruiser got blown up and the First Order would think they had won giving the resistance some breathing room to regroup.

Holdo knew exactly how much she was sacrificing, she was sacrificing empty and now militarily useless ships (Poe says the Dreadnoughts are "fleet killers", but when all you have is one heavy cruiser and one medical frigate, anything is a fleet killer) to save the lives of the resistance members who could reorganise and regroup with new allies. Poe killed 95% of the surviving resistance in this film because his dipshit ego wouldn't accept that if there wasn't a plan where he attacked something there wasn't a plan at all, if he weren't working for the good guys they'd have left him dead in the salt after a summary court martial.

[FaxModem1]

They didn't show the evacuation of the two other ships, so she clearly sacrificed those crews. And notice how she didn't choose to pick a spot where the transport ships wouldn't be noticed by the others, like say, an Asteroid field. Or say, have the crews evacuate immediately as she took the First Order on a goose chase to say, Endor in her flagship and not sacrifice the other two ships as they carry on. Notice how she didn't have that in her grand plan, now did she? Or mention to her crew that she did have a plan and that it's on a need to know basis, just 'have hope' and don't mind all your friends dying pointlessly.

Again, flighty woman in a cocktail dress.

EDIT: or you know, broadcast for help WHILE FLYING, because Finn and Poe were able to do so with Maz in an earlier scene.

[Vendetta]

They didn't show the evacuation of the two other ships, so she clearly sacrificed those crews. And notice how she didn't choose to pick a spot where the transport ships wouldn't be noticed by the others, like say, an Asteroid field. Or say, have the crews evacuate immediately as she took the First Order on a goose chase to say, Endor in her flagship and not sacrifice the other two ships as they carry on. Notice how she didn't have that in her grand plan, now did she? Or mention to her crew that she did have a plan and that it's on a need to know basis, just 'have hope' and don't mind all your friends dying pointlessly.

Again, flighty woman in a cocktail dress.

EDIT: or you know, broadcast for help WHILE FLYING, because Finn and Poe were able to do so with Maz in an earlier scene.

They actually did, there's a scene where the captains of both ships say they're evacuated before going down with their ships.

Also, there weren't any asteroid fields so they couldn't release the transports in them, the transports had radar cloaking which requires specific search protocols to defeat so they would be unnoticed and were until captain-no-opsec blabbing the plan in the presence of an untrusted third party (because the whole point of Finn and Rose's mission was to collect a mercenary third party so he knew they were there) caused the First Order to specifically look for them.

Holdo's plan would have worked if it wasn't for Poe "basically a traitor" Dameron. You calling her a "flighty woman in a cocktail dress" is you trying to make excuses for how you fell for the filmmaker tricking you into backing the wrong horse. She made all the right calls.

ALso, nobody else is even slightly surprised when Poe figures out they're fuelling the transports. The others there do know the plan. Dipshit pilots who got 90% of their command killed chasing irrelevant targets who don't even have a fighter to fly aren't on the need to know list. Her mistake wasn't not telling Poe, it was not locking him up where he couldn't do any damage. Darth Vader himself loose on the command cruiser could barely have done more damage to the Resistance than Poe's dipshit plans.

[K. A. Pital]

I liked the film.

I liked seeing Snoke die. That abomination of a Palpatine copy just needed to go - good riddance.

Kylo/Ben on the other hand redeemed himself from the stain of being a whiny loser. Although he lost in the end to a Force illusion.

Honestly, most of the old characters needed to die far quicker than they did. Also, Luke is cool but the rest of the rebellion sucks so much that I kind of wished Rey took up on Kylo’s offer and the plot would’ve developed unpredictably in a Dune-like fashion from there.



All in all, though, a much better story than TFA and made by a better director. Score two for Disney. Hope JJ won’t screw everything back to feeling like a cheap copy in the last one.

[FaxModem1]

They didn't show the evacuation of the two other ships, so she clearly sacrificed those crews. And notice how she didn't choose to pick a spot where the transport ships wouldn't be noticed by the others, like say, an Asteroid field. Or say, have the crews evacuate immediately as she took the First Order on a goose chase to say, Endor in her flagship and not sacrifice the other two ships as they carry on. Notice how she didn't have that in her grand plan, now did she? Or mention to her crew that she did have a plan and that it's on a need to know basis, just 'have hope' and don't mind all your friends dying pointlessly.

Again, flighty woman in a cocktail dress.

EDIT: or you know, broadcast for help WHILE FLYING, because Finn and Poe were able to do so with Maz in an earlier scene.

They actually did, there's a scene where the captains of both ships say they're evacuated before going down with their ships.

Also, there weren't any asteroid fields so they couldn't release the transports in them, the transports had radar cloaking which requires specific search protocols to defeat so they would be unnoticed and were until captain-no-opsec blabbing the plan in the presence of an untrusted third party (because the whole point of Finn and Rose's mission was to collect a mercenary third party so he knew they were there) caused the First Order to specifically look for them.

Holdo's plan would have worked if it wasn't for Poe "basically a traitor" Dameron. You calling her a "flighty woman in a cocktail dress" is you trying to make excuses for how you fell for the filmmaker tricking you into backing the wrong horse. She made all the right calls.

ALso, nobody else is even slightly surprised when Poe figures out they're fuelling the transports. The others there do know the plan. Dipshit pilots who got 90% of their command killed chasing irrelevant targets who don't even have a fighter to fly aren't on the need to know list. Her mistake wasn't not telling Poe, it was not locking him up where he couldn't do any damage. Darth Vader himself loose on the command cruiser could barely have done more damage to the Resistance than Poe's dipshit plans.

No asteroid fields where they decided to go, but plenty near Bespin, or the nebula from Rebels, or anywhere else. Jump to decoy location, such as the remnants of Alderaan, have the transports and other ships leave, then let the tracked ship get destroyed. And no, her plan wouldn't have worked, as there was reason to sacrifice her ships at all, because, remember, she could call for help anywhere in the galaxy, LIKE POE DID WITH MAZ.

Her plan wasn't great, and sacrificed a lot of assets in the hopes that help would come. When it didn't come, they all die except for Act of Jedi. At least if they had fought the First Order in orbit of their first base, they could have given themselves a fighting chance. Holdo got lucky that the First Order didn't call in for reinforcements to cut the fleet off and kill them in a pincer move. What would her grand plan have been if they had been routed before they got to her little hidden base?

Again, flighty woman in a cocktail dress.

[Vendetta]

They didn't show the evacuation of the two other ships, so she clearly sacrificed those crews. And notice how she didn't choose to pick a spot where the transport ships wouldn't be noticed by the others, like say, an Asteroid field. Or say, have the crews evacuate immediately as she took the First Order on a goose chase to say, Endor in her flagship and not sacrifice the other two ships as they carry on. Notice how she didn't have that in her grand plan, now did she? Or mention to her crew that she did have a plan and that it's on a need to know basis, just 'have hope' and don't mind all your friends dying pointlessly.

Again, flighty woman in a cocktail dress.

EDIT: or you know, broadcast for help WHILE FLYING, because Finn and Poe were able to do so with Maz in an earlier scene.

They actually did, there's a scene where the captains of both ships say they're evacuated before going down with their ships.

Also, there weren't any asteroid fields so they couldn't release the transports in them, the transports had radar cloaking which requires specific search protocols to defeat so they would be unnoticed and were until captain-no-opsec blabbing the plan in the presence of an untrusted third party (because the whole point of Finn and Rose's mission was to collect a mercenary third party so he knew they were there) caused the First Order to specifically look for them.

Holdo's plan would have worked if it wasn't for Poe "basically a traitor" Dameron. You calling her a "flighty woman in a cocktail dress" is you trying to make excuses for how you fell for the filmmaker tricking you into backing the wrong horse. She made all the right calls.

ALso, nobody else is even slightly surprised when Poe figures out they're fuelling the transports. The others there do know the plan. Dipshit pilots who got 90% of their command killed chasing irrelevant targets who don't even have a fighter to fly aren't on the need to know list. Her mistake wasn't not telling Poe, it was not locking him up where he couldn't do any damage. Darth Vader himself loose on the command cruiser could barely have done more damage to the Resistance than Poe's dipshit plans.

No asteroid fields where they decided to go, but plenty near Bespin, or the nebula from Rebels, or anywhere else. Jump to decoy location, such as the remnants of Alderaan, have the transports and other ships leave, then let the tracked ship get destroyed. And no, her plan wouldn't have worked, as there was reason to sacrifice her ships at all, because, remember, she could call for help anywhere in the galaxy, LIKE POE DID WITH MAZ.

And then the transports are stranded in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, because they didn't appear to possess hyperdrives and definitely didn't have long range communications equipment (if they did they could just have hypered in all directions all along).

Her plan wasn't great, and sacrificed a lot of assets in the hopes that help would come. When it didn't come, they all die except for Act of Jedi. At least if they had fought the First Order in orbit of their first base, they could have given themselves a fighting chance. Holdo got lucky that the First Order didn't call in for reinforcements to cut the fleet off and kill them in a pincer move. What would her grand plan have been if they had been routed before they got to her little hidden base?

Her plan would have sacrificed nothing the Resistance could do anything useful with if Poe hadn't blabbed it to the enemy. The Resistance "fleet" was irrelevant anyway as they had one cruiser, one frigate, and one corvette. They couldn't do anything with them militarily. Any single Star Destroyer could handle them in a fight. If Poe hadn't blown the plan they would have landed in secret and could organise rescue in secret (at which point it wouldn't be "The First Order is here to kill us pls help" it would be hailing a taxi), then rebuild elsewhere.

It's a good job you're not leading a resistance, you'd be about as good at it as Poe "95% casualties" Dameron.

[FaxModem1]

They actually did, there's a scene where the captains of both ships say they're evacuated before going down with their ships.

Also, there weren't any asteroid fields so they couldn't release the transports in them, the transports had radar cloaking which requires specific search protocols to defeat so they would be unnoticed and were until captain-no-opsec blabbing the plan in the presence of an untrusted third party (because the whole point of Finn and Rose's mission was to collect a mercenary third party so he knew they were there) caused the First Order to specifically look for them.

Holdo's plan would have worked if it wasn't for Poe "basically a traitor" Dameron. You calling her a "flighty woman in a cocktail dress" is you trying to make excuses for how you fell for the filmmaker tricking you into backing the wrong horse. She made all the right calls.

ALso, nobody else is even slightly surprised when Poe figures out they're fuelling the transports. The others there do know the plan. Dipshit pilots who got 90% of their command killed chasing irrelevant targets who don't even have a fighter to fly aren't on the need to know list. Her mistake wasn't not telling Poe, it was not locking him up where he couldn't do any damage. Darth Vader himself loose on the command cruiser could barely have done more damage to the Resistance than Poe's dipshit plans.

No asteroid fields where they decided to go, but plenty near Bespin, or the nebula from Rebels, or anywhere else. Jump to decoy location, such as the remnants of Alderaan, have the transports and other ships leave, then let the tracked ship get destroyed. And no, her plan wouldn't have worked, as there was reason to sacrifice her ships at all, because, remember, she could call for help anywhere in the galaxy, LIKE POE DID WITH MAZ.

And then the transports are stranded in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, because they didn't appear to possess hyperdrives and definitely didn't have long range communications equipment (if they did they could just have hypered in all directions all along).

Her plan wasn't great, and sacrificed a lot of assets in the hopes that help would come. When it didn't come, they all die except for Act of Jedi. At least if they had fought the First Order in orbit of their first base, they could have given themselves a fighting chance. Holdo got lucky that the First Order didn't call in for reinforcements to cut the fleet off and kill them in a pincer move. What would her grand plan have been if they had been routed before they got to her little hidden base?

Her plan would have sacrificed nothing the Resistance could do anything useful with if Poe hadn't blabbed it to the enemy. The Resistance "fleet" was irrelevant anyway as they had one cruiser, one frigate, and one corvette. They couldn't do anything with them militarily. Any single Star Destroyer could handle them in a fight. If Poe hadn't blown the plan they would have landed in secret and could organise rescue in secret (at which point it wouldn't be "The First Order is here to kill us pls help" it would be hailing a taxi), then rebuild elsewhere.

It's a good job you're not leading a resistance, you'd be about as good at it as Poe "95% casualties" Dameron.

Nor would you, as you would open yourself to multiple ambushes by traveling in a straight line and hoping your enemy doesn't cut you off, and sacrifice needed and expensive ships that you need for various purposes.

[Knife]

They could have side stepped all that nonsense by getting to the planetary base quicker in the movie and had the super drama play out in wannabe Hoth. And while some people liked how it happened, I see lots of stupid plot holes and bad writing in it as Fax Modem does.

[eMeM]

She was a terrible leader and it all would have been avoided if she just told her most senior (the only remaining?) fighter pilot that she does have a plan - all she tells him she has hope.
Bridge crew likely doesn't know anything either, as some of them join Poe during the mutiny.

Speaking of which... for fuck's sake, that shithead didn't even tell a word after the mutiny! After that point it was literally her going "you don't want my plan that I didn't even explain, fine, we will all die, and its your fault".If not for a convienient steam pipe, and a lot of luck and plot armour she would spend the rest of the movie silently in the brig waiting for the ship to run out of fuel and get destroyed.

Afraid of moles? Poe is not a mole and she knows that, he was Leia's most trusted man, as evidenced in TFA, and saved the resistance at least twice, just tell him in private. Also tell that to the audience, if a grunt and a low rank maintenance worker figured out how they were tracked in seconds, no reason to assume the high command didn't.

"Poe is reckless" subplot from the start of the movie doesn't work because in that case Poe was 100% right. They (people responsible for the movie) make him call the ship he destroys a "fleet killer". Hmm, I wonder what would have happened if Snoke had a fleet killer in his little task force...

Leia even recognises that and promotes him from commander to captain

[FaxModem1]

She was a terrible leader and it all would have been avoided if she just told her most senior (the only remaining?) fighter pilot that she does have a plan - all she tells him she has hope.
Bridge crew likely doesn't know anything either, as some of them join Poe during the mutiny.

Speaking of which... for fuck's sake, that shithead didn't even tell a word after the mutiny! After that point it was literally her going "you don't want my plan that I didn't even explain, fine, we will all die, and its your fault".If not for a convienient steam pipe, and a lot of luck and plot armour she would spend the rest of the movie silently in the brig waiting for the ship to run out of fuel and get destroyed.

Afraid of moles? Poe is not a mole and she knows that, he was Leia's most trusted man, as evidenced in TFA, and saved the resistance at least twice, just tell him in private. Also tell that to the audience, if a grunt and a low rank maintenance worker figured out how they were tracked in seconds, no reason to assume the high command didn't.

"Poe is reckless" subplot from the start of the movie doesn't work because in that case Poe was 100% right. They (people responsible for the movie) make him call the ship he destroys a "fleet killer". Hmm, I wonder what would have happened if Snoke had a fleet killer in his little task force...

Leia even recognises that and promotes him from commander to captain

That's true....the Fleet Killer's Captain was the only FO commander smart enough to deploy fighters and deal with the enemy intelligently. Capable fleet commanders seem to be in short supply on both sides.

[Vendetta]

Afraid of moles? Poe is not a mole, he was Leia's most trusted man, as evidenced in TFA, and saved the resistance at least twice, just tell him in private. Also tell that to the audience, if a grunt, and a low rank maintenance worker figured out how they were tracked in seconds, no reason to assume the high command didn't.

"Poe is reckless" subplot from the start of the movie doesn't work because in that case Poe was 100% right. They (people responsible for the movie) make him call the ship he destroys a "fleet killer". Hmm, I wonder what would happened if Snoke had a fleet killer in his little task force...

The Resistance has one heavy ship. Every single First Order warship is a "fleet killer" to them. Destroying one dreadnought (the First Order has others) is strategically irrelevant. The Resistance cannot meaningfully engage in space battle at all with the First Order, preserving one cruiser is a useless endeavour because they can't do anything with it.

What Holdo should have done is locked Poe up. He deserved it after his insubordination got his whole command killed. He's just proven himself to be untrustworthy and incompetent, why would you take him aside and tell him about a plan that doesn't involve him in any way? Because you can tell he's a main character?

[FaxModem1]

Afraid of moles? Poe is not a mole, he was Leia's most trusted man, as evidenced in TFA, and saved the resistance at least twice, just tell him in private. Also tell that to the audience, if a grunt, and a low rank maintenance worker figured out how they were tracked in seconds, no reason to assume the high command didn't.

"Poe is reckless" subplot from the start of the movie doesn't work because in that case Poe was 100% right. They (people responsible for the movie) make him call the ship he destroys a "fleet killer". Hmm, I wonder what would happened if Snoke had a fleet killer in his little task force...

The Resistance has one heavy ship. Every single First Order warship is a "fleet killer" to them. Destroying one dreadnought (the First Order has others) is strategically irrelevant. The Resistance cannot meaningfully engage in space battle at all with the First Order, preserving one cruiser is a useless endeavour because they can't do anything with it.

What Holdo should have done is locked Poe up. He deserved it after his insubordination got his whole command killed. He's just proven himself to be untrustworthy and incompetent, why would you take him aside and tell him about a plan that doesn't involve him in any way? Because you can tell he's a main character?

Did Holdo tell anyone? Her own bridge officers mutinied, after all.

[Vendetta]

Afraid of moles? Poe is not a mole, he was Leia's most trusted man, as evidenced in TFA, and saved the resistance at least twice, just tell him in private. Also tell that to the audience, if a grunt, and a low rank maintenance worker figured out how they were tracked in seconds, no reason to assume the high command didn't.

"Poe is reckless" subplot from the start of the movie doesn't work because in that case Poe was 100% right. They (people responsible for the movie) make him call the ship he destroys a "fleet killer". Hmm, I wonder what would happened if Snoke had a fleet killer in his little task force...

The Resistance has one heavy ship. Every single First Order warship is a "fleet killer" to them. Destroying one dreadnought (the First Order has others) is strategically irrelevant. The Resistance cannot meaningfully engage in space battle at all with the First Order, preserving one cruiser is a useless endeavour because they can't do anything with it.

What Holdo should have done is locked Poe up. He deserved it after his insubordination got his whole command killed. He's just proven himself to be untrustworthy and incompetent, why would you take him aside and tell him about a plan that doesn't involve him in any way? Because you can tell he's a main character?

Did Holdo tell anyone? Her own bridge officers mutinied, after all.

The fact that the transports are being fuelled is plainly visible to the whole bridge crew, and literally none of them are surprised when Poe treats it as a major revelation.

Remember, the audience has followed Poe's perspective, we only know what he knows. So yes, most of the bridge officers do know what's going on and despite some of them joining the mutiny, swayed by him alleging Holdo of cowardice, Poe still can't actually hold the ship. Only two people actually join him on the bridge so he can execute his plan and as soon as Holdo is free the mutiny crumbles immediately, implying that it really isn't very big at all.